Trad. Logic 1 or 2, and being an untrained logic teacher?

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Hello,

I am mostly just looking for fellow pilgrims in the logic study journey. Is anyone using Traditional Logic 1 and/or 2, and you have never studied logic before? If so, are you able to give any encouragement to me? We are in ch. 9 of TL 1, and it's going alright, but to me, many times it seems like a foreign language that is beyond foreign! And because it's so foreign to me, I don't know if it's because the topic is unfamiliar, or if it's the way the book is written (does it seem unnecessarily repetitive, to the point of confusing, to you at times, or does it need to be that way for some reason?), or what. I *have* gotten irritated in the past with the way other Memoria Press books were written/set up/confusing, so it could be the case again here, but I'm not sure.

I guess I felt this way when we first started studying Latin (MP stuff - PL/LC1/LC2) - I thought I'd never understand what a declension was, and now it's so simple! Will logic principles become that way to me sometime? (please say yes!!! I really want to integrate this topic into our lives! It seems so important.) Is there another *simple* adult logic book that I could skim through and maybe get an overview of logic principles, so I understand TL better? Or could someone explain to me the overview (or would that be too much, I don't know)?

All these unfamiliar terms, too. I guess I need to flashcard them and memorize what they mean. There is no way around it, is there. It would help my son, too, I think. Although he's quicker than me to understand, even though he doesn't remember a whole lot from lesson to lesson, which I fear is going to become a problem.

Also, I don't get these silly A, E, I, O statements. Are those letters something that Memoria Press made up, or are they really called that in other logic books? I had to look back yesterday to see why these letters are attached to the concepts - can't they just refer to them as "no s is p" and so on? If other logic books call them by letters, OK, I'll memorize them once and for all.

So who else is in the same boat as me, and how are you doing? What have you managed to extract/understand/glean so far?

Colleen

(btw, no, I don't want to get the videos - I've heard they're slow and boring, and we definitely don't need any more slow and boring around here)

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My oldest ds went through TL1 and is almost finished with TL2. I was lost almost from the beginning of it. He has gone through it by himself, but we do have the DVDs. He thinks Martin Cothran is funny. I'm not sure why! I think he has learned a lot from both of them, but he is a very logical and mathematical person just like his father. I will probably try to go through it again when my younger two get around to doing both of them. Maybe I'll have oldest ds teach the rest of us.:tongue_smilie:

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My dd is taking TL 1 this year. I took two logic courses in college ages ago...and I remember none of this stuff; it's like it's completely new to me. It's a little weird.

So dd is reading the book and doing the exercises--she doesn't care for the videos, but I like to watch the videos and take notes. And I have made flashcards.

My biggest fear is that we can "learn" it but to what end? I don't have a big picture here. I'm afraid we'll forget it all by the time we take TL 2 in either 8th or 9th grade. I am trusting the kind people at Memoria Press not to lead me astray...lol. I have a hunch it's a little like studying Latin--that one of the benefits is from the study, not just from the information.

And if nothing else, at least we're well versed in equivocation fallacies now!

Are you using the quizzes/tests? Did you know they had quizzes/tests for this program? You have to order them directly from MP, they aren't on the website or in the catalog. We aren't using them, but I wish I had them. I think it would be great review.

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So who else is in the same boat as me, and how are you doing? What have you managed to extract/understand/glean so far?

Colleen

(btw, no, I don't want to get the videos - I've heard they're slow and boring, and we definitely don't need any more slow and boring around here)

I am. It does seem like Justice and I are picking up another language at times. :lol:

We usually go over each reading together before he answers the questions, which is good for both of us. It makes me keep up with him, and he's so auditory that it really helps cement the concepts for him. I also go through the book on my own time and write my answers in a notebook.

Ds likes the videos, but again, he's an auditory learner. Poor kid's eyes did glaze over the very first time he watched it though. I believe the exact quote was, "He's no Chris Perrin, but I think I'll get used to him?"

Edited by SilverMoon
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Well, we haven't started TL yet. I don't think we will start until my dd is in Gr. 8. I have been a little skittish at the thought of starting logic and, after reading this thread, my skittishness has now turned into full-blown fear! :001_huh:

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:D

Thanks for answering my questions! :lol:

My oldest ds went through TL1 and is almost finished with TL2. I was lost almost from the beginning of it. He has gone through it by himself, but we do have the DVDs. He thinks Martin Cothran is funny. I'm not sure why! I think he has learned a lot from both of them, but he is a very logical and mathematical person just like his father. I will probably try to go through it again when my younger two get around to doing both of them. Maybe I'll have oldest ds teach the rest of us.

Knowing there are other mathematical/scientific thinking boys out there who pick it up quickly is a comfort to me. I guess the whole point is that *he* learns, right? (But I wanna learn, too!) I guess when I get around to teaching my girl, it will be easier for me, because she learns more like I do. :D Maybe she and I can learn together. And ds can tell us if we are on the right track. :lol:

What do you put on your flashcards?

My biggest fear is that we can "learn" it but to what end? I don't have a big picture here.

I have a big picture in a sense that it will all be useful for thinking clearly and argumentation in writing later on. But I wish I had a bit more specific of a big picture - like, "you will learn this, this, and this; and these this' all fit into this and this, which results in this." or something like that. :lol:

Are you using the quizzes/tests? Did you know they had quizzes/tests for this program? You have to order them directly from MP, they aren't on the website or in the catalog. We aren't using them, but I wish I had them. I think it would be great review.

No, I don't think I could take having quizzes and tests at this point. (Have I ever mentioned here that I finally threw away our math tests/quizzes/speed drills?:svengo:) But I do notice that the TL book includes review of previous material. So, I see these previously-seen/studied terms come up again (like this past week in ch. 9), and I think, "OK, this must be review...so I guess I can look back to see what they are talking about."

We usually go over each reading together before he answers the questions, which is good for both of us. It makes me keep up with him, and he's so auditory that it really helps cement the concepts for him.

This is pretty much what we are doing. I guess I'm going to have to look over the book at times other than when working with ds.

Well, we haven't started TL yet. I don't think we will start until my dd is in Gr. 8. I have been a little skittish at the thought of starting logic and, after reading this thread, my skittishness has now turned into full-blown fear! :001_huh:

Oh no! Don't be afraid. I'm not afraid, I'm just rooting around for some encouragement here, and I'm seeing that others are in the same boat, and that some seem to be getting to the other side and gaining new understanding. I really do see this, right now, as when I was first starting Latin study, starting with LC 1! I had the hardest time with that, esp. comprehending what a declension was. Now it seems so simple to understand. But it took me awhile. It was the same as when I went through the Mind Benders books a few years ago - I was SO confused, and this was on level A!!!!!! But, I posted with people here, kept working through, and eventually it all made sense to me. So, I have hope of that happening with logic. Hopefully soon. :lol:

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I have Traditional Logic 1 on my bookshelf right now. My plan was to use this with dd next year (9th grade) and TL 2 the year after that (10th grade). I bought this early so that I could learn it, but it is still sitting there next to Jacob's Algebra, which I also really NEED to do ahead. I'm so behind in this year's work that I cannot get to the prep work for 9th. I feel like this...:lol::scared:!

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I'm so behind in this year's work that I cannot get to the prep work for 9th. I feel like this...:lol::scared:!

I know *exactly* how you feel. I sometimes wish I had studied this stuff when my kids were younger, but of course, it didn't seem urgent at the time.

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My flashcards are just blank 3x5 cards that I write the important/main info on. I have one with the AEIO chart (does anyone else sing the Old MacDonald song when they see this lesson??) and one with definitions, etc. I haven't made any in the last few lessons, b/c it's too much writing with all the laws...

I keep them in a stack with my grammar flashcards and Latin flashcards. :lol:

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AEIO chart ... and one with definitions

I think I'm going to do this. Thanks for the details.

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