knit247 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 OK - here goes. I believe that DD#2 has OCD. I have thought this for many years (I think she was 3 or 4 when we first noticed ). FWIW, her maternal grandmother, paternal grandfather, and paternal aunt all have OCD. Paternal side also has the same two with bi-polar disorder and I suffer from dysthymia (chronic, low-level depression) and SAD. Great genes, huh? It started with her having to be washed off in the tub in a certain order. And I had to say certain things when I was washing each part ("Left arm up! Right arm up! Belly front! Backy-back! Bummy-bum!"). If I deviated from the order or did not say what I was supposed to say, she would get distressed. Not angry. Not defiant. Distressed. Next she added a certain way to come off of the three steps that led off our deck (and how we entered / exited the house). Certain spots she could not touch. One certain spot on the sidewalk she could not touch. If she did, she had to start all over. Both of those eventually went away, but she added in more. For years, we have had to say the Lord's Prayer every single night (she, DD#1, and I). If we all do not start at the exact same moment - or keep in perfect sync, we have to start over. She spent an entire year not praying it out loud because she couldn't "breathe right" while saying it. She started saying it again a few weeks ago - it appears that this one is on its way out. Right now there is a certain step in our house that she must say, "Ding-ding-umm-umm" every time her feet hit it - almost without thinking. But you can bet that if she misses it, she will go back and step on it again to say "Ding-ding-umm-umm". She also has to come back (it used to be three times, but lately it is 4 times) to hug and kiss me goodbye when she and DD#1 take the dog out to potty. And lastly, she collects toilet paper and food wrappers (and leaves and rocks, but we ask her to leave those outside now). I discovered her toilet paper collection when I cleaned out her AWANA bag one night. She had about 10 squares from the church. I asked her what she was doing with them & she said that she collects TP. Then she showed me her stash :sad: It's quite a bit. I mean it's probably up to 2-3 rolls worth, if not more. We have had to limit her to two squares each time she potties and she has to keep that in a small cabinet in her room (prior it was covering the top of the dresser she shares with her sister). We also have made a rule that she cannot collect used food wrappers, but she still tries. Good grief. Writing all of this out is an eye-opener. I see it all together & can't believe that this is happening to her... At any rate, because not doing whatever it is will cause intense distress for her, we have just adapted. It hasn't caused us any distress to accommodate her, so we do it. She has no idea that what she is doing is out of the realm of normal, and sometimes I think "who is to say what is normal, anyhow?" I know, I know). People collect strange things... But I know in my heart something is amiss. OK - so all of this to ask: when should we seek help for her? My reasoning for not doing it before now is that she doesn't seem bothered by her own behaviors. I don't want her to think that there is something wrong with herself. If I take her to a doctor, she'll be labeled - and I don't care about a doctor's label so much as the one she will put on herself. Please - any advice? Do we just wait until her behaviors become disruptive to her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 :grouphug: Been there, done that. I realized it was a problem for us when my son's behaviour interfered with his life. The obsessions owned him. It began to interfere with all of our lives. We made an appt. with a psychologist and began trials of different OCD meds. I've never been one to medicate, but I'm glad we did. It took a few rounds in order to find the right one, but can I tell you how it's blessed him and us? Wow. It's so wonderful to see my son own his obsession now. He will still sit down and write a logo perfectly, but he can write "Walt Disney" look at it and smile, then run away to play for a few hours. Before meds, he was sitting at the table filling stacks of 100 papers with the same logo, and he did not find joy in it. Now he does. He owns it, not it owning him. I understand how hard it is, but consider that meds could free your dd and your family from a large degree of stress. It is good to be able to go with the flow instead of being locked in. :grouphug: ETA: the behaviours may never become disruptive to her... please don't wait for that because that ship may not come in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorMama Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Seek help for her now. She may not seem bothered by the behaviors you've talked about, but part of OCD can also be repetitive distressing thought processes that you can't get out of your head. There's a lot of anxiety that can go along with this sort of thing. If somebody had gotten help for me, I might not have spent my entire life up until my twenties thinking I was crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*~Tina~* Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I agree that you should seek help for her. Help can come in the form of therapy or in many cases meds - or both. As a previous poster mentioned, you are seeing many outward manifestations of OCD, but a key component is also the distressful thought processes that cause inner turmoil as well. For me the inner stuff was more bothersome than the outer stuff and it was such a relief to know I wasn't just plain defective and could actually be helped! ;) There's a good book I read, it might have been "Talking Back to OCD"? (and then another I can't think of at the moment) But if you can read up on it a bit, you'll gain a much better understanding of how distressing it can really be and how much better and liberated she can be with proper help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianmomtofour Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Absolutely seek help now. My 10yo suffers from OCD and is in therapy. This isn't something that gets better with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Seek help for her now. She may not seem bothered by the behaviors you've talked about, but part of OCD can also be repetitive distressing thought processes that you can't get out of your head. There's a lot of anxiety that can go along with this sort of thing. If somebody had gotten help for me, I might not have spent my entire life up until my twenties thinking I was crazy. :iagree: I suffer from OCD (more obsessions) all of my life. The OP's dd needs intervention from a psychiatrist who specializes in OCD and Cognitive Behavior Therapy to break the habits/compulsions with her hoarding and ritual behaviors. Do it now. Don't wait til she is older. With meds and CBT therapy, it is a manageable illness. She may have ocassional breakdowns as an adult if truly stressed, but again with your parental guidance and support, she can overcome this. Hang in there!!!! :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thank you all. I am really concerned about where to seek help. My options are one psychiatrist and one psychologist on base (female - she would not do well with a male) or to see a German doctor. I will certainly look into OCD more, but can anyone tell me if disturbing thoughts are *always* present? She is such a sweet, sweet child. Is outgoing and makes friends everywhere she goes. Gives and gives and gives... To think that she might be unhappy or scared or whatever underneath is enough to make me cry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*~Tina~* Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thank you all. I am really concerned about where to seek help. My options are one psychiatrist and one psychologist on base (female - she would not do well with a male) or to see a German doctor. I will certainly look into OCD more, but can anyone tell me if disturbing thoughts are *always* present? She is such a sweet, sweet child. Is outgoing and makes friends everywhere she goes. Gives and gives and gives... To think that she might be unhappy or scared or whatever underneath is enough to make me cry... Laurie sweetie, don't let yourself feel guilty about this for a second. Children don't come with manuals, it generally takes ANY parent time and a bit of retrospect to discern when seemingly quirky behaviors aren't quite neurotypical. Now that you've recognized that she has a need, you're best option is to move forward. This is a treatable condition and I pray you find a helpful, knowledgable professional to work with. I think the thought processes can be different for each individual. For me, particulary during stressful times, I was constantly bombarded with horrible visual images of my greatest fears - fires, car accidents, loss of my parents, loss of my children, etc. It can be very disturbing and it certainly wasn't anything I wanted to talk about out loud or share with someone, less I feed my paranoia that doing so might make it come true. :glare: Frankly, even not being able to shut out a basic thought of "I need to check the door locks" or "Did I turn the stove off?" can be inwardly disturbing. When you know that you know, but still can't shut the repetitive thought off, it can make you feel insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treestarfae Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 OCD is a stress reaction. Estrogen can also cause it. I would get all natural products and eliminate estrogenic foods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorMama Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thank you all. I am really concerned about where to seek help. My options are one psychiatrist and one psychologist on base (female - she would not do well with a male) or to see a German doctor. I will certainly look into OCD more, but can anyone tell me if disturbing thoughts are *always* present? She is such a sweet, sweet child. Is outgoing and makes friends everywhere she goes. Gives and gives and gives... To think that she might be unhappy or scared or whatever underneath is enough to make me cry... Everybody's different, but the key here is that even if she's not having upsetting thoughts yet, she will be eventually, because eventually she'll realize what she's doing isn't normal and that she can't stop. That's extremely distressing even if you don't have other obsessive worries and thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy in Ky Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) I would seek help for her. I have OCD and have since I was a very, very little girl, but no one around me knew what it was. (I used to have my mom say specific things too--one among loads of other symptoms I struggled with). It is miserable, and she can't make it go away, and there likely is massive amounts of anxiety and stress and fear and desperation that she is dealing with which you know nothing about. I was a very happy, bouncy, delightful child too; and I lived in a private hell which only intensified as I got older. Likely she has a serotonin deficiency--a chemical imbalance that can be fixed. I am 43. My relief came about 6 1/2 months ago when I started a medicine that inhibits serotonin reuptake. 43 years of suffering, and all because of a suspected, (easily) treatable chemical imbalance. 43 years! I never knew my mind could be so relaxed, my obsessions and compulsions quieted, my temperature regulated (serotonin regulates temperature. I am finally warm), my fear stilled, etc. etc. etc. I had no idea it was this easy to feel so much better. Please get her help; there is help for her. If she were diabetic you would correct that imbalance. This is an imbalance too. I wish I had had help when I was so young. Hugs, Tracy Edited January 14, 2011 by Tracy in Ky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 For those who have had a child in therapy, were you able to stay in the room the entire time? I would not be comfortable with her being alone with someone... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiebird Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'm glad you asked about this, because I'm considering this might be what's going on with my son. I know it's starting to bother him though, which is why I'm getting worried. He told me a few days ago that if he bangs his foot on a step or elbow on a wall on accident, he doesn't feel right until he goes back and bangs the opposite foot or elbow. He told me he hated having to do this but didn't know how to stop. This makes me think OCD, but I didn't know where or when to start either. Thanks. (He has some other things too that made me question it before he brought it up, like hitting a book on his forehead before he can open it, checking all the locks and the stove several times before he can go to bed, making sure DH and I are sitting on the couch before he goes to bed (not in the bathroom or anything) etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The fact that you wrote that she is DISTRESSED if you don't say the words in the correct order during bathing, to me, says that she already IS being hurt by it. It is wonderful that your family is so accomodating for her, but.....I think that she needs help. What happens when something can't be accomodated? An emergency? What if, during the phase of 'having to say the right things during baths' you lost your voice? (I get that this phase is over, right?) What if you had a medical emergency and couldn't be there? What I mean is that she has been worked into a situation in which her distress would be MUCH MUCH higher in times of emergency than what the emergency called for......just becuase her OCPD couldn't be accomodated at that time. Is this making sense at all? I feel like I"m talking in circles. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy_Me Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 It sounds like OCD without question. I wish someone would have gotten help for me when I was little. I was around 8 when symptoms started and was close to 30 before I finally threw up the white flag and got an official diagnosis. It truly is like living in your own personal little hell. Certainly seek help for her where ever you can. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mejane Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My son's therapist told me catching it early is key ow the behaviors compound, become ingrained, and are much more difficult to treat. See someone now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*~Tina~* Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 For those who have had a child in therapy, were you able to stay in the room the entire time? I would not be comfortable with her being alone with someone... Thanks. This is probably an individual therapist thing, but imo. . .it's your child, you're paying for the services, thus your preference to stay in the room should certainly be accomodated and respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yes, you can usually be in the room with her if she's pretty young, unless the therapist sees you influencing her or feels it is necessary to establish trust with her w/o you present--it all depends, actually. Tell the therapist of your concern, and find one that will work with you. As for which to use, psychologist or psychiatrist-- see if the psychiatrist does therapy, or just prescribes meds. You want to see both (if the psych doesn't do therapy). And Tracy, it's nice to "see" you!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 TY all again. Spoke with DH & he agrees that she should be seen now. I am going to call Behavioral Health on base tomorrow & start there. I have seen both the Psychologist & Psychiatrist & like them both. Maybe they have experience with children or can point me to an English-speaking doctor out in town. I really hate it that I let it go this long, but honestly until I wrote it all out - and realized that I had actually forgotten a few of her "quirks" - I didn't see how big this had all become. I feel like this is all my fault. I can't stand the thought of her having to deal with this her whole life. I have dealt with Dysthymia since I was about her age, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. OCD seems even worse... TY all again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I first sought help for my son when he was 8. I would agree with others that it is probably best to go ahead and seek help now and get some direction for the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 It's affecting family life? Is it? If it's OCD it may not be bothering her as long as she can do what her OCD it telling her to do. But you mention distress when something isn't "right" and that's an issue. Apart from that the nature of OCD is to get worse the more you "follow it's orders" for lack of a better way to describe it. So it might not bother her now but it likely will sooner or later and to a great degree imo. My personal opinion is that learning early on how to control OCD will better help her manage it for life than if she waits until she's older and more distressed. So I would get her help now so that she can learn to manage this. Oh, I see on your follow up you're doing that. Big suggestion--OCD is handled in a very specific way that is different from other conditions. You really need someone who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy for OCD specifically. You can likely find someone and even someone who does pediatric. If you go to the OCD foundation website (google--it'll probably be the first hit) you will find a therapist locate type section. See if there is anyone within a reasonable drive who works with pediatric OCD. Again, the therapy (cognitive behavioral) for OCD is very specific and different than other conditions so you want someone who "does" OCD. I would really encourage you to not try someone who isn't a cognitive behavioral therapist who works with OCD if you can. I have seen a lot of people not helped because they tried to get help from someone who isn't specific to OCD. I'd hate for you to spend time and money unnecessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knit247 Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Big suggestion--OCD is handled in a very specific way that is different from other conditions. You really need someone who specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy for OCD specifically. You can likely find someone and even someone who does pediatric. If you go to the OCD foundation website (google--it'll probably be the first hit) you will find a therapist locate type section. See if there is anyone within a reasonable drive who works with pediatric OCD. Again, the therapy (cognitive behavioral) for OCD is very specific and different than other conditions so you want someone who "does" OCD. TY for the info. Currently we do not live in the US and my choice of English-speaking doctors is going to be limited. I know that there are 2 or 3 here on base - not sure about out in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I will certainly look into OCD more, but can anyone tell me if disturbing thoughts are *always* present? Oh, most definitely with OCD -- it is called "ruminations" and it affects a few OCDers. The thoughts cycle non-stop and at times can be quite torturous. Your poor little girl. I struggled with this all of my life. Medications and CBT really do help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) You want someone who practices cognitive behavioral therapy. That's the most important thing. Therapy does not have to be long--3-6 months is often what it takes to train the child how to cope with the thoughts. This book http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Obsessing-Overcome-Obsessions-Compulsions/dp/0553381172/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1295012898&sr=8-3 Stop Obsessing was written as a self-help book for adults. The general idea is applicable to kids. ETA: you know, if you are limited with options of docs who may not do congitive behavioral therapy, the nature of therapy for OCD is such that I am guessing it could be done over Skype. It is not a "tell me your deepest memories" therapy, but a teaching therapy. I would think that it would be possible for a therapist in the US to meet with you over the Skype and train you and your dd how to handle it. Just a thought if you need to think out of the box. Edited January 14, 2011 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 FindingLaurie, I am completing my training as a professional who will be licensed to assist with these kind of issues. In addition, one of my three children suffers with anxiety/OCD (and, like you, we have some genetic predisposition). I'd like to encourage you to not be upset about a label in this regard. It is probably important that she know her quirky behaviors are not standard. It doesn't have to be shaming, but she - at her age - does need to know that her ways of seeking comfort and security are counter-productive in the long run. She'll need to know that those types of rituals are not how other people conduct their daily life so that she can recognize them and take steps to decrease the rituals without increasing anxiety. There is nothing to feel shame about; for you OR her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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