Sweet Home Alabama Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) I will have an 8th grade dd next year, and I'm trying to plan classes for 8th grade as well as look ahead to the high shcool years as I plan courses for her to take. In 8th grade, I'm tentatively planning for her to take TPS English I. Then in 9th I think I want to do MFW AHL. If we do this, should I plan on continuing with TPS English II in 9th when we start MFW AHL or not? Please help me understand the composition part of MFW high school. How does it progress each year? I'm trying to determine if it needs to be supplemented by something like TPS, or if that is overkill. I like that TPS English classes help to prep for the writing portion on SAT/ACT.....from what I understand. Would the comp portion of MFW be enough to prepare for this as well? Thanks! ETA: The cost for both MFW high school and TPS English is terribly expensive. To avoid that expense, I would change my question to ask, "Should MFW high school be supplemented by anything to help with composition skills?" Edited January 12, 2011 by Sweet Home Alabama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BakersDozen Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have no idea what TPS English is but I can say that after half a year with MFW I feel the English aspect is sorely lacking. It started off well enough but after the first big assignment it is very light (IMO). I'm scrambling now to supplement writing for the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have no idea what TPS English is but I can say that after half a year with MFW I feel the English aspect is sorely lacking. It started off well enough but after the first big assignment it is very light (IMO). I'm scrambling now to supplement writing for the rest of the year. TPS is The Potter's School. They offer several writing classes that start in 6th grade with Writer's Workshop which is then followed with English I, II, and III in 7th-9th grades. We would be starting Eng. I in 8th instead of 7th. I don't know if this matters or not. They have a wonderful reputation for teaching composition, and, as I understand it, the instruction is good prep for ACT/SAT writing. I am still learning about them, and am hoping others who have used Potter's School English would help here.:001_smile: I have heard wonderful reports about MFW high school classes. I can understand how it would be frustrating to feel the need to supplement. This is why I asked my question.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have no idea what TPS English is but I can say that after half a year with MFW I feel the English aspect is sorely lacking. It started off well enough but after the first big assignment it is very light (IMO). I'm scrambling now to supplement writing for the rest of the year. :iagree: Thankfully, I signed my DS up for a Lost Tools of Writing class with Memoria Press. It's supposed to be a credit by itself, but I will probably end up pairing it with the English scheduled in MFW. I just don't have the time or the expertise to choose books to supplement MFW's literature. (We are using MFW's World History, if "using" is the right word - LOL! I don't even use their history anymore. It's a shame because the Bible and Church History portion is so well done.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 would you please share your opinions? Thanks for the responses, ladies. I know there are others who use MFW for history. I would love to hear from you. I'm under the impression that MFW history is great, and I LOVE that it is written TO the student. I am REALLY trying to get myself out of the teaching part of high school. I'm just not sure about the composition part. Is it thorough? Will I be able to evaluate it? Does it need to be supplemented? It does make me consider if I should choose a separate history and composition that I could outsource. Truly, I just want to facilitate the classes/keep the records for them. I don't want the responsibility of TEACHING high shcool. kwim? Would you choose: A: MFW with or without supplementing the comp OR B: Separate history and comp and outsource both If "B", what history and comp would you recommend? Either way, I want a curriculum with a detailed plan. IOW, I would not do well with something like TOG where school would be dependent on MY plans. I'm in that planning stage of 8th-12th grade where everything is unsure and anything can change!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) I have no idea what TPS English is but I can say that after half a year with MFW I feel the English aspect is sorely lacking. It started off well enough but after the first big assignment it is very light (IMO). I'm scrambling now to supplement writing for the rest of the year. I'm curious whether you're using MFW high school or one of the younger years. We're using the first year of high school, AHL. I will try to list what ds has done this 1st semester, although I'm going from memory, as I'm not at home. - Went thru detailed instruction on the argumentative essay - wrote about three argumentative essays, the first on a topic of choice and the next two on literature topics - wrote a couple more shorter essays based on Notgrass assignments - spent a couple weeks on grammar reviews, and one had students look for the grammar problems in their own essay, which I liked - wrote a few psalms in particular styles that were being studied - started to do the background reading, lessons, and making if a cover page for his upcoming proverbs project - read assigned literature - read free choice literature (there are some suggestions in manual but my ds reads the choices assigned in his book club and is glad there is room for this) - studied Gilgamesh and the the mythology book in depth, with lots of tracking questions and some thinking questions (and one if the essays I mentioned) - did vocab lessons along with Gilgamesh and the mythology book Hope that helps give a picture. If I remember anything else, I'll add it in later. I keep getting interrupted in my thoughts. Oh and I should add that each child is going to have different needs, but AHL is laid out so clearly that it's easy for me to decide whether I want to change up anything for my particular ds. Julie Edited January 12, 2011 by Julie in MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I'm curious whether you're using MFW high school or one of the younger years. We're using the first year of high school, AHL. I will try to list what ds has done this 1st semester, although I'm going from memory, as I'm not at home. - Went thru detailed instruction on the argumentative essay - wrote about three argumentative essays, the first on a topic of choice and the next two on literature topics - wrote a couple more shorter essays based on Notgrass assignments - spent a couple weeks on grammar reviews, and one had students look for the grammar problems in their own essay, which I liked - wrote a few psalms in particular styles that were being studied - started to do the background reading, lessons, and making if a cover page for his upcoming proverbs project - read assigned literature - read free choice literature (there are some suggestions in manual but my ds reads the choices assigned in his book club and is glad there is room for this) - studied Gilgamesh and the the mythology book in depth, with lots of tracking questions and some thinking questions (and one if the essays I mentioned) - did vocab lessons along with Gilgamesh and the mythology book Hope that helps give a picture. If I remember anything else, I'll add it in later. I keep getting interrupted in my thoughts. Oh and I should add that each child is going to have different needs, but AHL is laid out so clearly that it's easy for me to decide whether I want to change up anything for my particular ds. Julie Julie, do you feel like the composition part of MFW high school is enough? Would you supplement with The Potter's School English or any other comp class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Julie, do you feel like the composition part of MFW high school is enough? Would you supplement with The Potter's School English or any other comp class? I'm not Julie, but my daughter is using AHL (mfw high school year 1) right now. I can't imagine trying to add more composition for a 9th grader especially if the goal is about preparing for down the road with SAT/ACT essay. There are several argumentative essays in the program with some really good thinking questions. I guess we haven't worked on doing Timed Essay though. I guess if someone needed more, they could add it as long as the length of day doesn't overwhelm everyone. But we haven't seen a need yet to do outside classes in composition or adding another program. I just picked up my daughter's lesson plans and looked at the how to Grade section. In English, there are seven major essays/writing projects over the school year. In History, there are 6 essays. And don't forget the daily journaling on thinking questions from Bible reading. 13 major essays in one school year is a lot in my opinion. mileage will vary. Then, as it gets closer to taking the SAT/ACT, start practicing for timed essays using various writing prompts in SAT prep books. Make sure they can handwriting legibly. just my experience so far. I know in WHL (year 2), it goes beyond essay writing in research reports and all of that. I know by year 3, MFW has goal of helping students be able to study and take CLEP composition. -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbollin Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I'm just not sure about the composition part. Is it thorough? Will I be able to evaluate it? Does it need to be supplemented? For the major essays, MFW gives you a grading rubric to follow in order to evaluate it. I wrote this a few weeks ago somewhere else, and thought I'd share it here Here are some standard things on that feeling when we think we can't teach writing or evaluate writing at MFW high school level or know that we lack a skill for it: -Trust yourself and carefully evaluate papers based on the suggestions in the Lesson Plans and Lit and Comp Supplement. Did they follow the format given in the Literature and Composition Supplement? If so they have succeeded. Are the papers getting better each time one is written? If so the student is learning and improving their skills. -If you believe your student needs more input/instruction than you can provide, ask another mom you know and trust (in a co-op, support group) with stronger writing skills to evaluate your student’s papers. Be willing to pay a modest amount for their time. What I've found this year in AHL with my oldest is that the Lit/Comp Supplement is very helpful for structure of the essay and specific checkpoints for improvement from draft to final. I encourage my daughter to use more sophisticated vocabulary (use a thesaurus!), and she types most all of it and uses spell check and grammar check to self edit. We found that she was willing to increase length of her writing after seeing a silly little feature in the spell checker that gives a "readability grade level' for the work. It's not a perfect measure or anything, just something that helped her to take out passive sentences and a few things like that to make it sound like you need to at least read at a high school level to understand her paper. I've seen her writing improve just from reading quality books, and from being introduced to Logic (with Thinking Toolbox and Fallacy Detective). Then her dad and I will make editorial suggestions. Lots of the things we learned in Writing Strands over the year help pull it all together to add variety to how to open a sentence and add to a sentence. I'll tell this much, I wish I had been given this much writing instruction when I was in high school Honors and AP English! The way MFW has it planned out, I'm not worried about my daughter's college writing and we'll only in 9th grade AHL. (of course, mileage will vary, but that's just my experience) -crystal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Julie, do you feel like the composition part of MFW high school is enough? Would you supplement with The Potter's School English or any other comp class? Like Crystal, I'd use the program as written until I saw a need. And even if I did see a need, my first strategy would be to use what I had in more depth. I personally could barely tolerate writing about meaningless things in school, so I'm glad AHL writing is tied in with thinking about what has been studied. I'm big on subbing where I need to for my kids, but I haven't seen a need this first semester (except for reading aloud on occasion for my lonely, non-enjoyed of reading, ds). And I've really liked the amount of support and places to bounce off ideas when using MFW, as compared to teaching my older dd "on my own.". My ds also benefits from hearing how Crystal's dd did an assignment etc. Glad to answer any more specifics, if needed. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Like Crystal, I'd use the program as written until I saw a need. And even if I did see a need, my first strategy would be to use what I had in more depth. I personally could barely tolerate writing about meaningless things in school, so I'm glad AHL writing is tied in with thinking about what has been studied. I'm big on subbing where I need to for my kids, but I haven't seen a need this first semester (except for reading aloud on occasion for my lonely, non-enjoyed of reading, ds). And I've really liked the amount of support and places to bounce off ideas when using MFW, as compared to teaching my older dd "on my own.". My ds also benefits from hearing how Crystal's dd did an assignment etc. Glad to answer any more specifics, if needed. Julie From Crystal: I'll tell this much, I wish I had been given this much writing instruction when I was in high school Honors and AP English! The way MFW has it planned out, I'm not worried about my daughter's college writing and we'll only in 9th grade AHL. (of course, mileage will vary, but that's just my experience) -crystal Julie and Crystal, thanks so much for sharing your opinions! I feel better about MFW writing from reading your responses. I'm strongly considering putting my dd in TPS Engligh I for 8th grade. She will recieve great instruction as well as learn how to manage a higher caliber English/comp class. My goal would be that TPS Eng. I would sharpen her writing skills so that she would be ready for MFW high school composition. Am I on the right track or is there something better? We would only have time for Eng. I. If we used MFW high school in 9th, it might be too much to go for Eng. II at the same time. I would be counting on Eng. I being enough to get her started writing at a more mature level than what she is doing now. Anyone else??? Please tell me more!:001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My goal would be that TPS Eng. I would sharpen her writing skills so that she would be ready for MFW high school composition. Am I on the right track or is there something better? I agree that 7-8th grades are a good time to sharpen writing skills and boost any other skills where you see a need. My ds took a one-semester outside writing class in 7th (and a one-semester speech class). I didn't think my ds in particular benefited a lot from the writing assignments, themselves, but I think he did benefit from meeting deadlines for an instructor that year :tongue_smilie: If it feels right, go for it! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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