ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I'm not religious in any way. I am OK with the Christian content of CLE's LA and math, but the content in the reading program is way outside my comfort zone. I like the type of questions asked in the LUs, and would love to find something secular, or at least less rude towards non-Christians. (An example of what offends me: "Everyone in the world worships something. People who have never heard of the true God worship made-up gods. Those who do not want to worship the true God worship something else. Suppose your family had never heard of the one true God. Suppose every day you and your parents bowed down and prayed to an ugly, wooden idol.") I've heard Pathway readers are not preachy, but that the workbooks are not worth it. What else is there that I might like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisabees Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I don't think you'll find anything that is similar. :glare: Closest I found was Mosdos. I feel your pain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Thanks Lisa! I am looking at the Holt Reader worktexts .... I have grade 6 & 8 (Goodwill!) and I like how they're set up. They have an upper elementary program too. Mosdos looks good but $52 is a lot, and I still want him to have time to do other readers (he does not yet read on his own). I guess textbook publishers are probably the best chance for something secular, unless I just want to get a Spectrum workbook and call it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforward Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (An example of what offends me: "Everyone in the world worships something. People who have never heard of the true God worship made-up gods. Those who do not want to worship the true God worship something else. Suppose your family had never heard of the one true God. Suppose every day you and your parents bowed down and prayed to an ugly, wooden idol.") Which level/book/LU had this quote? That's awful, and now I have to rethink CLE (again, ugh) or just get my Sharpie ready. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaterbabs Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You can always just skip questions. I do this for things we don't need the extra review on anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 It's lesson 1 in Reading 305. The rest of the LUs look like more of the same. One thing I don't understand is this focus on worshiping idols/idolatry. The way CLE puts it, the "savages" (my word, not theirs) think it's the "ugly" wooden/stone/metal idol that holds the powers, and that the idol can see and hear. I'd always understood that idols were used as a representation of a higher power, and that praying to the idol was a way to connect to that higher power (similar to praying to a cross or statue in the Christian faith). A wiki article on idolatry backs me up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry "Yehezkel Kaufman (1960) has suggested that when Yahweh gave commandments regarding idolatry he meant it to be understood in its most literal form: according to the Bible, most idolaters really believed that their idols were gods, and Kaufman holds that this is an error in assuming that all idolatry was of this type, when in some cases, idols may have only been representations of gods. Kaufman writes that "We may perhaps say that the Bible sees in paganism only its lowest level, the level of mana-beliefs...the prophets ignore what we know to be authentic paganism (i.e., its elaborate mythology about the origin and exploits of the gods and their ultimate subjection to a meta-divine reservoir of impersonal power representing Fate or Necessity.) Their [the Biblical author's] whole condemnation revolves around the taunt of fetishism." Modern Pagans find this understanding of their religious practices as a stereotyping of their cultural and religious practices by Semitic religions." Anyway, it makes me really uncomfortable that CLE is reducing indigenous people's belief systems into something that's not accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 It's not just in a few questions though - it's the whole theme of the reader and in the instruction written to the student. I don't mind editing on the fly for the LA program, because the content is so slight, but this is practically a bible course wrapped up into the reading program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Really, it just doesn't sound like a good fit at all, especially if you "aren't religious in any way". I can't imagine using something so religiously conservative if I was adamantly not religious. I'm surprised that you're surprised with the content of CLE honestly. I'm not sure what you were expecting to find. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I haven't used CLE, but my DD enjoys the older Scott Foresman readers, and the workbooks for those are available as .pdfs online. I got the books from her school, but I know I've seen them on ebay and Amazon pretty cheaply. And they're 100% secular. The stories are pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastforward Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It's lesson 1 in Reading 305. The rest of the LUs look like more of the same. One thing I don't understand is this focus on worshiping idols/idolatry. Anyway, it makes me really uncomfortable that CLE is reducing indigenous people's belief systems into something that's not accurate. Thank you for sharing the specific passages you mentioned. I'm uncomfortable with the wording as well especially being part of a religion that is often incorrectly associated with idol worship. I may pray in front of an icon or a statue, but I do not pray to them or feel they are a substitute for the higher power that I would refer to as God. I'll be watching this thread with interest into CLE Reading alternatives. :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 We are using CLE LA, and just remove any of the religious copywork etc. We start with all levels of HOP and then move to the SL Readers 1, 2 Regular, 2Intermediate and 2Advanced, the only part we skip there is the Bible that is in 2 Regular. You can buy the study guide that has the questions to go with the readers for Core 1 and 2 seperately, beginning in Core 3 you need the IG. I prefer the real books and my libraries carried most before I purchased them (since 4 kids will go through them). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure what your point is. Telling me that I shouldn't be surprised is not helpful. I asked for suggestions for secular reading programs. It doesn't sound like you have one, so your point is just to jab me? However, since you asked, I'm surprised because the religious content is so different from that in CLE LA and Math, which I've been using for over a year. I had reason to think that CLE wove examples from the bible into their programs, but didn't know it would be preaching to the child in such a way - oh, those poor savages with their silly idols who are denying the truth! It's one thing to explain to my child that "The people who write the book believe language is a gift from God." It's quite another to say "the people who wrote this book are totally wrong about how they describe others' beliefs." Edited January 12, 2011 by ondreeuh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Thanks! I'll check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 I have idols hanging on my wall - my mom is Orthodox Christian and does iconography as a hobby. She definitely would be horrified by this curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondreeuh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 What's the title & year of these? Here's what I found: Scott Foresman Reading Programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I'm surprised because the religious content is so different from that in CLE LA and Math, which I've been using for over a year. I had reason to think that CLE wove examples from the bible into their programs, but didn't know it would be preaching to the child in such a way - oh, those poor savages with their silly idols who are denying the truth! It's one thing to explain to my child that "The people who write the book believe language is a gift from God." It's quite another to say "the people who wrote this book are totally wrong about how they describe others' beliefs." Yes, it is different from their Math (although they still manage to make arithmetic Godly, lol). There website is very reflective of their beliefs though. The front page itself has a link to "tracts" for purchase, & imo the reading samples seem very conservatively religious. I'm sorry your experience was bad. I agree skipping the religious aspects with this program would leave you with a great deal unused & your description of it as a "bible study" is very accurate. You have to remember, this religious group finds saying the pledge of allegience as an act of idoltary, so that is where their mindet is coming from. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I happen to think the Pathway Readers are wonderful. We are a secular family and they are perfectly fine. I also really like the workbooks. There are two pages for each story. The first page is called Working with Words. They introduce the new words and there are varying exercises to help the child learn the words. The second page is for story comprehension. I would use these over Spectrum workbooks for sure! I can post some photos of a few pages if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) PASS is the second best literature program I've found; it's secular. Take a look at PASS in Language Arts AND English. I believe it's unit 6 in each of these. If you email them, they will send you the email password for the answer keys. It's all FREE! You can also buy the booklets too. http://www.pass.leon.k12.fl.us/Special%20Documents/Book%20Subject%20Areas.aspx Edited January 12, 2011 by MIch elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) I actually have 2000 textbooks, but the stories appear to be the same as in the 2002 and the 2004, with each subsequent edition adding more test prep and extra stuff (which we skip). The 2000 textbooks don't seem to cost more than about $5-$6 used. The teaching materials are available here. I think they're officially for the 2004. http://www.sfreading.com/teachers.html Edited January 12, 2011 by Dmmetler2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I'm not religious in any way. I am OK with the Christian content of CLE's LA and math, but the content in the reading program is way outside my comfort zone. I like the type of questions asked in the LUs, and would love to find something secular, or at least less rude towards non-Christians. (An example of what offends me: "Everyone in the world worships something. People who have never heard of the true God worship made-up gods. Those who do not want to worship the true God worship something else. Suppose your family had never heard of the one true God. Suppose every day you and your parents bowed down and prayed to an ugly, wooden idol.") I've heard Pathway readers are not preachy, but that the workbooks are not worth it. What else is there that I might like? :blink: I also saw one about the makers of the Titanic not glorifying God. Thanks for helping me make my decision! Did you find anything that is working for you? :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Do you have another link for PASS? I've done lots of searching and I keep getting "this site is no longer operational." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 Do you have another link for PASS? I've done lots of searching and I keep getting "this site is no longer operational." Too bad, they were really good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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