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math - "experts" vs the Hive


MeganW
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I know this is sort of a random question, but it seems like every homeschooling "expert" (those who have written books) recommend Saxon Math. But you never hear it talked about here. How come?

 

 

There are people here who use it. Maybe it's not talked about much because it's not *new.*

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Saxon is tried and true.

 

Many home school authors no longer school or started long ago, when the variety of materials was smaller, so they started with something like, Saxon, as it was readily available.

 

Many people don't use it b/c it's very public schoolish and many find it quite dull.

 

Some find the sheer volume of practice work daunting or unappealing, while some love it for the same reasons.

 

Saxon is solid. We peeked and ran early on w/ Saxon, but plan to use some of their tests as review for Algebra.

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I got saxon earlier on. K and 1st grade. I found the subject is taught not systematic. It s very scatter for me. And practice the same concept day after day. It was just not for my fast pace boy. So I end up picked another program. and my saxon is sitting on the shelve

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Saxon is tried and true.

 

Many home school authors no longer school or started long ago, when the variety of materials was smaller, so they started with something like, Saxon, as it was readily available.

 

Many people don't use it b/c it's very public schoolish and many find it quite dull.

 

Some find the sheer volume of practice work daunting or unappealing, while some love it for the same reasons.

 

Saxon is solid.

:iagree:

 

What she said!

 

I started researching homeschooling years before I began homeschooling, I bought a cheap Saxon book I found used, thinking I would use it, based on what was available at the time.

 

After finding other things that I liked better and knew would be a better fit with my children, I'm using other things.

 

And, I use several things with each child, although not as many as Spy Car!

 

Saxon is better than most public school math programs, especially the new-fangled ones. It is a good fit for some children, just not mine. (Each of them for different reasons!)

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Many home school authors no longer school or started long ago, when the variety of materials was smaller, so they started with something like, Saxon, as it was readily available.

 

I think this is the reason it's recommended so often. (As an aside, sometimes I notice the same phenomena with LLL leaders recommending baby carriers--they're still suggesting Noah's Ark-print padded ring slings and have no idea what else is available.) The authors just often aren't aware of what else is now out there.

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I got saxon earlier on. K and 1st grade. I found the subject is taught not systematic. It s very scatter for me. And practice the same concept day after day. It was just not for my fast pace boy. So I end up picked another program. and my saxon is sitting on the shelve

I have not used Saxon myself, but nearly everything I've read about it has said that the earlier grades are no good, but it's excellent (if it's your type of thing at all) from 3rd or 4th grade on.

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If you care ....

 

I have used Saxon and continue to use Saxon. However, Saxon did not have the beginning elementary levels 1-3 when I began homeschooling 20 years ago. We used MUS for those levels and made the switch to the first available Saxon textbook. I love Saxon.

 

I think many problems arise with Saxon when the lessons are not done in full - problem solving skills, drills, practice problems, set problems, and so on. We do them all. I do not feel that 25 problems are a burden. Typically, a lesson is 15 minutes to teach and 30-45 minutes to complete the problem set. We do math four times a week.

 

I have one dd that placed easily into college math after taking her GED in the 10th grade. (She was tired of school and placed well above and beyond the minimum score in math.) This dd had not even completed Algebra II! The youngest dd is considered gifted in math - based on her testing scores - in the fourth grade. What more can you ask for?

 

Perhaps we don't often speak up for the texts. I feel that it is tried and true. I suppose you know it is there, and if you want to use it, you will. I don't suggest anyone use Saxon when they ask, "what math?" I assume you have decided already not to use Saxon when asking about Singapore or MM or some other such curriculum.

 

There are not any quirky or cutesy games. The book is black and white. It teaches math logically. Math needs to be practiced; therefore, the problem types repeat throughout the lessons. I found that my dd is learning to remember math concepts and master skills.

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Guest Cheryl in SoCal
If you care ....

 

I have used Saxon and continue to use Saxon. However, Saxon did not have the beginning elementary levels 1-3 when I began homeschooling 20 years ago. We used MUS for those levels and made the switch to the first available Saxon textbook. I love Saxon.

 

I think many problems arise with Saxon when the lessons are not done in full - problem solving skills, drills, practice problems, set problems, and so on. We do them all. I do not feel that 25 problems are a burden. Typically, a lesson is 15 minutes to teach and 30-45 minutes to complete the problem set. We do math four times a week.

 

I have one dd that placed easily into college math after taking her GED in the 10th grade. (She was tired of school and placed well above and beyond the minimum score in math.) This dd had not even completed Algebra II! The youngest dd is considered gifted in math - based on her testing scores - in the fourth grade. What more can you ask for?

 

Perhaps we don't often speak up for the texts. I feel that it is tried and true. I suppose you know it is there, and if you want to use it, you will. I don't suggest anyone use Saxon when they ask, "what math?" I assume you have decided already not to use Saxon when asking about Singapore or MM or some other such curriculum.

 

There are not any quirky or cutesy games. The book is black and white. It teaches math logically. Math needs to be practiced; therefore, the problem types repeat throughout the lessons. I found that my dd is learning to remember math concepts and master skills.

I disagree with the red text, which is one of the reasons I no longer used it. We used 75% of Saxon 6/5, not the lower elementary levels that are different.

 

I too check the copyright date when I read a book in which the author recommends Saxon as their 1st choice.

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Saxon fans here--and I'd say to the OP, you have not checked carefully thru the threads--lots of people use it here, and lots of threads have been written, pro and con. Searching is a little difficult on this forum, but trust me, it's been talked into the ground.

 

ITA with people who say check the copyright--many programs have come out since Saxon. To each his own.

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When "experts" make recommendations, they are thinking about what will work for the widest spectrum of people. That doesn't mean it's best for a particular child or family. Saxon has been used widely and solid.

 

It's like ice cream. If I ask you what your child's fav is, maybe it's pistashio. If I ask you what flavor you'd serve at a party for 1,000 people, you'd probably say vanilla. Saxon is vanilla, maybe bland but don't have to worry about killing anyone off who has nut allergies. :lol: That's a great strategy for ps, and vanilla is the best choice for some, but isn't part of why we're hsing that we want to be able to offer that pistashio if that's what is best for OUR child?

 

So, the experts will always suggest vanilla choices, which may or may not be best for our child. The hive is a group of pistashio lovers! :lol: [Ok, or maybe you'll hear more about an array of "flavors" the experts overlook.]

 

Time to go look in my freezer for some ice cream....

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The quirkiest thing about Saxon reviews is that some people talk lump 1st grade Saxon and Saxon calculus together :-0 That is just BIZARRE to me!

 

When asking about Saxon I think it is important to only listen to reviews of people talking about level you want to use. 1st grade reviews don't help a mom plan for middle school, algebra 1, precalculus, or calculus. As far as I'm concerned Saxon covers 5 different curricula niches:

 

early elementary

late elementary/middle school

algebra 1 and 2

precalculus

calculus

 

I think of them as 5 different curricula by the same publisher.

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I was a SM user. We switched our oldest to Saxon and it has changed our lives! It works for him. I don't think I would like it for me. But his confidence is coming back, the strain between us over math is nearly gone, and he is kicking butt at math olympiad! yea!

 

ds8 still uses SM. We love it.

Brownie

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I'd say to the OP, you have not checked carefully thru the threads--lots of people use it here, and lots of threads have been written, pro and con.

 

:iagree:

I would say that it seems like Saxon is one of the most commonly used math programs I see listed in forum users' signatures.

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My understanding is that Saxon was one of the first publishers to sell to homeschoolers back in the day. If nothing else, it's homeschool friendly in that all of the teaching is in the text and it sort of stuck. It also made it's way into much of the initial homeschooling literature because of this. I would guess that the next generation of homeschooling books will include a more diverse discussion of curriculum materials (if they haven't already; I haven't read a homeschooling book in years).

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My kids use Saxon (and LOF) b/c it was the first curriculum we came across when we started homeschooling in 4th grade and it was 'old school,' which is what I was used to. However, my kids test off the charts w/Saxon, so although I looked at other programs I can't seem to leave Saxon. My youngest is using MM, but will switch or add Saxon soon. FYI, if I recall correctly Maria at MM (an expert) is not a fan of Saxon.

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The quirkiest thing about Saxon reviews is that some people talk lump 1st grade Saxon and Saxon calculus together :-0 That is just BIZARRE to me!

 

 

ITA with this - Their K-3 is especially different from their 4th & up. Most of the negative reviews I hear fall into one of two categories - people not liking K- 3rd (I don't either), or people who prefer a mastery approach.

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Remember that the home schooling "experts" are not necessarily math education experts. There are some people who bemoan their own math skills and then love a particular program because they can be successful with it. I think you will find other opinions here because there are a lot of parents who are quite comfortable with math and may prefer an approach that is not Saxon. I used to teach high school math, so I am very comfortable with the subject and know how I like to teach it. Saxon's spiral approach would drive me batty. But I love how Singapore teaches kids how to think mathematically.

 

I am not bashing Saxon at all or the people who choose it because it works for them. I'm just trying to say that just because someone writes a book about home schooling doesn't mean they have the definitive answer about how to approach a particular subject area. But their suggested approach may be a good starting point for someone who knows less than they do.

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I don't have anything against Saxon itself. I only have issue with it being the only math program mentioned for homeschoolers. That is all. I figure it must be an good program or so many wouldn't use it. In person, I hardly ever meet people who use anything else. I am the weirdo who uses SM and miquon.

 

And it is good for me to hear about the upper level saxon. I was under the impression that it has a certain methodology and if you didn't start with it then don't bother trying it later on.

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I had totally planned to use Saxon for my DS because I loved it (used it from 5th-8th). It was after reading Cathy Duffy's book that I realized that it wasn't going to be a good fit for my son. If I ever brought my daughter home, though, I'd seriously consider it again. She'd do quite well with it, I think.

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saxon was hands down my favorite math texts when i was in school. i only used it in middle and high school, two classes, and we were never assigned all of the problems. i feel a little ripped off when a curriculum doesn't include enough practice for kids who need more reinforcement.

 

dd did saxon K and part of 1, but it was very time intensive because her writing was not up to snuff at all. i regret ditching 1 altogether i think dd would be more solid on her facts if i had taken the time to adapt it to her.

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We started with Singapore (and I'm still a HUGE fan), but DD7 started to wilt towards the end of 2A. I put her into Saxon 2. We're doing 2-3 lessons per day and zooming through it, but it's been a wonderful boost for her and her skills are solidifying. She likes having multiple mathematical topics in each lesson. She LOVES one-minute math tests. Her math facts are getting much faster. She's doing very well and is back to loving math again. We may go back to Singapore 2A/B over the summer to see if she just needed some bolstering up, or maybe we'll stick with Saxon. Or?? That's the wonderful thing - you can always adjust what isn't working.

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We are better than the experts. :lol:

 

This is my favorite place for homeschool advice!

:iagree: I am amazed at all the theory the experts throw around!

 

For me, it is the same with how to teach your child to read in 100 lessons.

Yup! I used 100EZL b/c of "expert" recs, now I know there are more complete options and often regret not knowing better back in the day.

 

I was chuckling the other day when a local started home schooling. She got all her advice from someone whose youngest was in 9th grade. Everything she used was old school :) home school materials. They work just fine, but I laughed b/c I remember starting with much of the same and finding things that better suited my variety of children and their learning styles.

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Some repeats of pp, but I see three reasons:

 

1. Because it's not new, so it's not a "hot topic" and it doesn't get a lot of PR.

 

2. Because most authors made their decisions before all the new stuff came out,a nd they are sticking with Saxon.

 

3. Because the Hive is not representative of typical homeschool parents. ;)

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