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Do you ever want to put formal school on hold and just concentrate on therapy?


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:banghead:

 

(This is probably going to be just a venting thread....)

 

We have numerous issues in my house. I have informed my husband that he simply must be a genius (which he loved!:D ) because I think my kids inherited their issues from him, and he has a doctorate (veterinary medicine) and is very successful in his career, which requires a lot of language. How he made it through school is beyond me!

 

I'll just run down the list.

 

13yo has been diagnosed with Mixed Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder and PDD-NOS. I think the PDD-NOS is a crock.:angry: They were concerned about how he uses (or rather, DOESN'T use) language, facial expression, etc. They didn't like how he answered some things on a questionnaire, which I found out later HE DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND (due to his language problems). Well, in my research, I have come across assorted types of CAPD, and I'm just sure he has it. It explains EVERYTHING he experiences language-wise. Now to find an audiologist in my area qualified to test for it.

 

His language problems affect everything when it comes to school. He's in 8th grade, but I just about have to spend as much time working with him as I do my 1st and 2nd graders, simply because he barely understands the language used to present concepts to him or give directions.

 

My 12yo, I wouldn't be surprised if he is gifted somewhat. But I do think he has some sort of visual issue going on. He skips words a lot when he reads, and when I asked him about it, he said he has trouble figuring out which line he's on.

 

My 10yo was just diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia. I'm not TOO terribly concerned with the dysgraphia - she doesn't mind writing like many dysgraphic kids to. She just has slightly messy handwriting (spacing issues and improper sizes/placement of certain letters). The dyslexia though interferes with other things. She is requiring at least 2 hours of intensive O-G work per week. She also has memory and word retrieval issues that I'm not sure just WHAT I am going to do about yet.

 

My 8yo...sigh. I don't know WHAT is going on with him, but it's SOMETHING (or multiple things). I remember googling when he was 2 to see if there had been studies done on the effects of Zoloft on unborn babies when their moms took it during pregnancy. He's just a different kid. Highly emotional. Lots of traits of dyslexia, dysgraphia, CAPD, and ADHD. I don't know where to go or what to do with him. I've already held him back once because he was just so immature when he was in K. Even now, to think that he "should" be in 3rd grade, I just can't even believe it. He ACTS more like a young 1st grader than a 2nd grader. He has VERY similar language issues to my oldest, except they are showing up earlier.

 

My 6yo is a dream student.:D Taught herself to read, and I can carry on a conversation better with her than I can the 13yo. I have no concerns about her at all.

 

Then I have a 3yo and a 1yo who love to scream and cry their way through the day.:tongue_smilie:

 

So I'm thinking I'm looking at a minimum of intense O-G work with 2 kids, most likely whatever therapy for CAPD with a couple of kids, possibly vision therapy with a kid (maybe 2)...just when are we supposed to find the time to do NORMAL school???????

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:grouphug:

 

Sounds very challenging for you at the moment!

 

I hope things become easier once you're done with the evals and have a handle on the various issues. (12yo may be as simple as new glasses.)

 

Getting stuff done? No idea - I'm in awe of home schoolers of larger families... Maybe pare down your schedule temporarily and just concentrate on one or two subjects per day?

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We were/are in a similar boat - up very early this morning pondering adjusting our schedule yet once again to get two of my blessings extra help. Oldest son is in 7th grade with CAPD/PDD-NOS - CAPD being primary. We started dealing with this at around age 9/10 - got to a plataue but have reached further issues again this year (which I expected). We are consentrating on comprehenshion right now after seeing improvements in language/vocabulary area. We do as much as we can via audio (books on cd, Apologia science on cd, visual type math - MUS/TT). My other child has obvious issue, just not with a name. She is in 5th grade - seeing improvements after making adjustments in core subjects but still very week in comprehension and applying what she has learned in language. In the past with my oldest son we cut back to core curriculum basics during therapy type learning. We also have a DS blessing, but slow and steady keep her learning. The rest of the children are doing well. Over the years, when coming and going, I always keep the others doing their basics (LA/math/reading) daily. The rest we picked up when we could and made up during the summer if necessary (but it usually wasn't as once we started seeing improvements in the struggling areas the core areas came easire and more independantly). HTH

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CAPD could very well be the major problem and more important is which type of auditory processing disorder.

 

If it is auditory associative deficit then it will be related to language. In said case, comprehension is affected.

 

I agree with you. This is where labels mean nothing and what you need is how to help your dc.

 

I pray you will find an audiologist that follows the moderl in "When the Brain Can't Hear" by Terri Bellis.

 

You can find articles on said model if you google. You might have done this already.

 

I don't have much time now. Will be back later.

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Therapy is a full-time job, figuring out what to do, figuring how the most practical/affordable way to do it, getting it done, doing something with the rest while that one kid has his session, doing all the driving, etc. My dh totally took over the dishes during this time. He used to help, but at this point he has just basically taken certain things over. I don't think it's a problem to admit you're getting stretched thin and ask for some help to leave you more time to sort through these things. It just takes a lot of time and mental energy!

 

I'd try to keep math going and having them write something daily. We're doing a lot of stuff for therapy reasons in our house right now, and it DOES cut into school time. It's vital and creates a foundation for future success, so we're doing it. I just rearranged our school stuff in fact, bringing in storage drawers to put things in (things to work on finger strength, things to work on visual perception, etc.).

 

I know it's the terrible struggle that the kids have it worse than the parents. What the parent has that they could get by with the kid has to just enough degree more that he can't. It's going to take a lot of work on your part to sort through that. What you might do, and this is just an idea, is take a good for the goose, good for the gander approach. So if you do at home auditory processing homework with the one, do it with ALL of them. If you do finger strength or core and shoulder strength exercises with the dysgraphic, do it with ALL of them. At least that way they're all on the same page. You might conveniently remediate in that way some weaknesses you haven't even identified yet, and it might make it seem more sane and cohesive, everybody doing the same thing. It's not like there are such huge boundaries between these problems. What benefits the one will probably be good for the rest.

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:banghead:

 

(This is probably going to be just a venting thread....)

 

We have numerous issues in my house. I have informed my husband that he simply must be a genius (which he loved!:D ) because I think my kids inherited their issues from him, and he has a doctorate (veterinary medicine) and is very successful in his career, which requires a lot of language. How he made it through school is beyond me!

 

I'll just run down the list.

 

13yo has been diagnosed with Mixed Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder and PDD-NOS. I think the PDD-NOS is a crock.:angry: They were concerned about how he uses (or rather, DOESN'T use) language, facial expression, etc. They didn't like how he answered some things on a questionnaire, which I found out later HE DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND (due to his language problems). Well, in my research, I have come across assorted types of CAPD, and I'm just sure he has it. It explains EVERYTHING he experiences language-wise. Now to find an audiologist in my area qualified to test for it.

 

His language problems affect everything when it comes to school. He's in 8th grade, but I just about have to spend as much time working with him as I do my 1st and 2nd graders, simply because he barely understands the language used to present concepts to him or give directions.

 

My 12yo, I wouldn't be surprised if he is gifted somewhat. But I do think he has some sort of visual issue going on. He skips words a lot when he reads, and when I asked him about it, he said he has trouble figuring out which line he's on.

 

My 10yo was just diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia. I'm not TOO terribly concerned with the dysgraphia - she doesn't mind writing like many dysgraphic kids to. She just has slightly messy handwriting (spacing issues and improper sizes/placement of certain letters). The dyslexia though interferes with other things. She is requiring at least 2 hours of intensive O-G work per week. She also has memory and word retrieval issues that I'm not sure just WHAT I am going to do about yet.

 

My 8yo...sigh. I don't know WHAT is going on with him, but it's SOMETHING (or multiple things). I remember googling when he was 2 to see if there had been studies done on the effects of Zoloft on unborn babies when their moms took it during pregnancy. He's just a different kid. Highly emotional. Lots of traits of dyslexia, dysgraphia, CAPD, and ADHD. I don't know where to go or what to do with him. I've already held him back once because he was just so immature when he was in K. Even now, to think that he "should" be in 3rd grade, I just can't even believe it. He ACTS more like a young 1st grader than a 2nd grader. He has VERY similar language issues to my oldest, except they are showing up earlier.

 

My 6yo is a dream student.:D Taught herself to read, and I can carry on a conversation better with her than I can the 13yo. I have no concerns about her at all.

 

Then I have a 3yo and a 1yo who love to scream and cry their way through the day.:tongue_smilie:

 

So I'm thinking I'm looking at a minimum of intense O-G work with 2 kids, most likely whatever therapy for CAPD with a couple of kids, possibly vision therapy with a kid (maybe 2)...just when are we supposed to find the time to do NORMAL school???????

:grouphug:

To answer your thread's title question: YES!!!

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Ah yes. Dh's involvement. He goes out of town quite a bit and is gone at least 12 hours a day.:glare:

 

I'm very much leaning toward putting stuff on hold while we do intensive therapy. My reasoning is that we'd be just spinning our wheels to do anything before we get everyone where they need to be with therapies. But if we can improve their weak areas, then once we do start hitting "normal" school subjects, they'll be able to progress at a pretty decent rate.

 

That's what I'm telling myself anyway.:lol:

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Yes, I have put education on hold so we could address the serious issues and focus on therapy. My son is 10 and has barely had a day of science and history as I have been focusing on his needs and those of my dd3. With my son if I had not taken time off to focus on reading and vision he would not be able to complete any work ever. Now that his issues are resolved (or remediated somewhat) we first do reading, math, English, and Bible. If we weren't gone 4 afternoons a week for dd3's therapies we would add in science and social studies. Having him on a video curriculum has helped. At least he can watch someone while I work with my dd. I still have to assist with 'homework' completion though.

 

The skipping of words and not knowing where he is in reading sounds a lot like my son before we started vision therapy. His eyes were not tracking together, he had convergence issues, and he had depth problems. It made pretty much any academic pursuit almost impossible. It was a long 18 months, but vision therapy changed his life for the better. I can't recommend it enough. While you are having your 12yo evaluated, have all the other kids evaluated as well. A friend of mine knew one of her 6 was having vision problems but decided to have all checked out. She was surprised to find out that 2 more had issues as well that had been missed.

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The skipping of words and not knowing where he is in reading sounds a lot like my son before we started vision therapy. His eyes were not tracking together, he had convergence issues, and he had depth problems. It made pretty much any academic pursuit almost impossible. It was a long 18 months, but vision therapy changed his life for the better. I can't recommend it enough. While you are having your 12yo evaluated, have all the other kids evaluated as well. A friend of mine knew one of her 6 was having vision problems but decided to have all checked out. She was surprised to find out that 2 more had issues as well that had been missed.

 

Yes, I'm considering that as well. The doctor I'm planning to go to is known throughout the country.:001_huh: I BELIEVE she does regular eye exams as well. Would we need a full blown evaluation for all of them? Or is there a screening process of sorts that she could do during a regular exam?

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Yes, I'm considering that as well. The doctor I'm planning to go to is known throughout the country.:001_huh: I BELIEVE she does regular eye exams as well. Would we need a full blown evaluation for all of them? Or is there a screening process of sorts that she could do during a regular exam?

I would start at www.covd.org. My son's eval started with a regular eye exam and then the developmental optometrist did an additional 3 hours of testing over 2 more appointments. Make sure the person you are seeing is qualified to do the more detailed exams. My son passed vision tests with 'regular' optometrists and opthamologists before we found our VT.

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Yes, the VT can do a regular exam on all the kids and screen to see who needs more thorough evaluation. That's what I was saying about what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Anything that helps language output, visualization, etc. in one may turn out to be necessary for all.

 

Don't drop the math entirely. Or maybe I'm the only one quite so extreme as to take it that way? We did, and she lost a lot of ground. I would try to do SOMETHING each day for math and write SOMETHING. If it's 1-2 pages from a math book and copying a Bible verse, that would be enough. I'm just saying do a little SOMETHING. But beyond that, I wouldn't stress it. I certainly wouldn't feel compelled to do history or science.

 

It took me months of reading to sort out these therapies, find who I wanted to use, get in, etc. It's this sort of terrible limbo where you're not doing much schooling and feel bad about it but don't know what else to do. The others are right that you WILL make some things up at a good rate once their skills get in order. But some things are going to regress if you take *totally* off.

 

I'm the opposite of Michele, we did quite a bit of therapy and found it very worthwhile. I find us building more and more "therapy" things into our day as we learn more. This morning we did origami, and this afternoon we're going to do Pop-Arty beads and puzzles. They're JUST as important as our math time or science or anything else, because I know she needs them. You're just at that ugly stage where you're trying to sort out what to do. You don't want things to degrade into chaos, not with that many kids, kwim? They still need structure and daily expectations, even though you're busy researching and trying to sort all this out. My dd was able to entertain the toddler while I worked. If you can find some things to create structure while you research, that would be good. Call it Narnia month and watch the series and let them act it out. They just still need some structure, that's all I mean.

 

Just keep working through it. You'll get there.

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(This is probably going to be just a venting thread....)

 

We have numerous issues in my house. I have informed my husband that he simply must be a genius (which he loved!:D ) because I think my kids inherited their issues from him, and he has a doctorate (veterinary medicine) and is very successful in his career, which requires a lot of language. How he made it through school is beyond me!

 

I'll just run down the list.

 

13yo has been diagnosed with Mixed Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder and PDD-NOS. I think the PDD-NOS is a crock.:angry: They were concerned about how he uses (or rather, DOESN'T use) language, facial expression, etc. They didn't like how he answered some things on a questionnaire, which I found out later HE DIDN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND (due to his language problems). Well, in my research, I have come across assorted types of CAPD, and I'm just sure he has it. It explains EVERYTHING he experiences language-wise. Now to find an audiologist in my area qualified to test for it.

 

His language problems affect everything when it comes to school. He's in 8th grade, but I just about have to spend as much time working with him as I do my 1st and 2nd graders, simply because he barely understands the language used to present concepts to him or give directions.

 

My 12yo, I wouldn't be surprised if he is gifted somewhat. But I do think he has some sort of visual issue going on. He skips words a lot when he reads, and when I asked him about it, he said he has trouble figuring out which line he's on.

 

My 10yo was just diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia. I'm not TOO terribly concerned with the dysgraphia - she doesn't mind writing like many dysgraphic kids to. She just has slightly messy handwriting (spacing issues and improper sizes/placement of certain letters). The dyslexia though interferes with other things. She is requiring at least 2 hours of intensive O-G work per week. She also has memory and word retrieval issues that I'm not sure just WHAT I am going to do about yet.

 

My 8yo...sigh. I don't know WHAT is going on with him, but it's SOMETHING (or multiple things). I remember googling when he was 2 to see if there had been studies done on the effects of Zoloft on unborn babies when their moms took it during pregnancy. He's just a different kid. Highly emotional. Lots of traits of dyslexia, dysgraphia, CAPD, and ADHD. I don't know where to go or what to do with him. I've already held him back once because he was just so immature when he was in K. Even now, to think that he "should" be in 3rd grade, I just can't even believe it. He ACTS more like a young 1st grader than a 2nd grader. He has VERY similar language issues to my oldest, except they are showing up earlier.

 

My 6yo is a dream student.:D Taught herself to read, and I can carry on a conversation better with her than I can the 13yo. I have no concerns about her at all.

 

Then I have a 3yo and a 1yo who love to scream and cry their way through the day.:tongue_smilie:

 

So I'm thinking I'm looking at a minimum of intense O-G work with 2 kids, most likely whatever therapy for CAPD with a couple of kids, possibly vision therapy with a kid (maybe 2)...just when are we supposed to find the time to do NORMAL school???????

 

 

I can SO relate to what you're dealing with - disorders, screaming little ones, OVERLOAD... :tongue_smilie:

 

No way one mother can do it all, so yes, I have spent chunks of time on therapy alone.

 

Regarding the CAPD/PDD thing, we've just gone through the same situation. Neuropsych insisted that 15 yo's "unusual intonation, facial expression, inconsistent eye contact" were a result of PDD, which made no sense, since he's never been "pervasively developmentally delayed" - in fact, quite the opposite. Said there was absolutely no evidence of CAPD and didn't recommend further testing. Ignored that advice, had him tested by a CAPD specialist and just as we strongly suspected, he DOES have CAPD. Interestingly, this is a misdiagnosis that can occur with gifted CAPD kids (according to Drs. Brock and Fernette Eide, "Mislabeled Child" authors). You are wise to have your child tested for this by a trained audiologist, since the common symptoms can be grossly misinterpreted by the more subjective assessments of some psychologists, neuropsychs, etc.

 

With a large family, I've found that the only way we hit the important stuff for each of them is to have a really tight schedule / to-do list - mostly plugging away at the main priorities. Each semester, I have to evaluate the time commitments to various activities, and change things around in order to accommodate everyone's changing needs. For instance, this semester one of my kids is dual-enrolled and needs a ride several times a week, I'm thinking of VT for another one, and we have karate and other outside activities to juggle, :driving:so we'll just have to stick with the basics for a few months. Then in the summer I'm hoping to get back to more interesting topics. We'll see. I tend to operate with relaxed, unschooling approach during the early elementary years, which definitely helps save my sanity.

 

It's just an EXTREMELY busy season of life. You'll figure out how to juggle all the priorities somehow. Then once you figure it out, you have to start all over again a few months down the road... :smilielol5::lol:

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I don't THINK I was planning to drop math - that seems to be the one thing that isn't too bad. But boy there are days....:lol: Sometimes my oldest's language issues get in the way of his math though, and that can be frustrating. It seems he's unable to learn ANYTHING until we get these language issues dealt with. (Teaching concepts without language is impossible!:tongue_smilie:)

 

Regarding the CAPD/PDD thing, we've just gone through the same situation. Neuropsych insisted that 15 yo's "unusual intonation, facial expression, inconsistent eye contact" were a result of PDD, which made no sense, since he's never been "pervasively developmentally delayed" - in fact, quite the opposite. Said there was absolutely no evidence of CAPD and didn't recommend further testing. Ignored that advice, had him tested by a CAPD specialist and just as we strongly suspected, he DOES have CAPD. Interestingly, this is a misdiagnosis that can occur with gifted CAPD kids (according to Drs. Brock and Fernette Eide, "Mislabeled Child" authors). You are wise to have your child tested for this by a trained audiologist, since the common symptoms can be grossly misinterpreted by the more subjective assessments of some psychologists, neuropsychs, etc.

 

I'm currently reading When the Brain Can't Hear, and one of the kids she described was a kid with right-hemisphere APD. I was like THAT IS MY SON. I THINK he hears individual sounds and stuff fine (doesn't confuse letter sounds, etc.), but picking out the key points from a lecture, etc. - ugh. Interestingly, my husband mentioned last night that when he was in college, he literally COULD NOT listen to the professor enough to understand AND take notes at the same time. He would have to write write write while the instructor talked, and then he'd have to go back and reread all of his notes in order to understand what the instructor said. I said, "That doesn't surprise me ONE BIT.":lol: (When encountering a new situation, he seems to not be able to follow the conversation very well either - just seems a bit behind the beat. APD totally explains that as well!)

 

Anyway, one thing I found rather interesting is that in the new proposed DSM-5 for "autistic spectrum disorder," one of the criteria is that the communication problems had to have shown up early in childhood. I am hoping they will keep that in there because that will completely exclude my son. He was FINE until around 4th grade.

 

Ugh. Here I go again. PDD-NOS, MY FOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

With a large family, I've found that the only way we hit the important stuff for each of them is to have a really tight schedule / to-do list - mostly plugging away at the main priorities.

 

Do you have a loop schedule of sorts, or do you have a strict schedule where they complete the same subjects each day?

 

Each semester, I have to evaluate the time commitments to various activities, and change things around in order to accommodate everyone's changing needs. For instance, this semester one of my kids is dual-enrolled and needs a ride several times a week, I'm thinking of VT for another one, and we have karate and other outside activities to juggle, :driving:so we'll just have to stick with the basics for a few months.

 

I hear ya. Fortunately we don't have a TON of outside activities, simply because my husband isn't around much. LOL he barely even knows what my kids are involved in. We'd been going to Taekwon-Do for a YEAR, and one day he acted completely shocked that we went on Wed. - he'd thought we went on Tues. (Of course he's not home for either, so it doesn't matter LOL.)

 

My kids go to AWANA on Sun. afternoons. My oldest (and starting in Sept. my 2nd as well) goes to AWANA on Mon. nights. #2 and #5 have Taekwon-Do on Wed. night. Oldest CURRENTLY has speech and language therapy (for his MRELD) on Mon. mornings, but I don't know how long that will go on, especially if it turns out that he has CAPD. I feel like we are treating a symptom rather than the cause, with our current plan of attack.

 

It's just an EXTREMELY busy season of life. You'll figure out how to juggle all the priorities somehow. Then once you figure it out, you have to start all over again a few months down the road... :smilielol5::lol:

 

Boy, ain't that the truth?????? And heck, by then I'll probably be pregnant again, so I'll have to add in midwife appts. to the mix.:lol:

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I don't THINK I was planning to drop math - that seems to be the one thing that isn't too bad. But boy there are days....:lol: Sometimes my oldest's language issues get in the way of his math though, and that can be frustrating. It seems he's unable to learn ANYTHING until we get these language issues dealt with. (Teaching concepts without language is impossible!:tongue_smilie:)

When my son was in vision therapy I worked on oral fact memorization for math. His tracking was so bad that he couldn't complete horizontal and vertical problems on the same page otherwise. Now he is zooming thru math because he is just learning each method and not having to learn facts at the same time.

 

 

I'm currently reading When the Brain Can't Hear, and one of the kids she described was a kid with right-hemisphere APD. I was like THAT IS MY SON. I THINK he hears individual sounds and stuff fine (doesn't confuse letter sounds, etc.), but picking out the key points from a lecture, etc. - ugh. Interestingly, my husband mentioned last night that when he was in college, he literally COULD NOT listen to the professor enough to understand AND take notes at the same time. He would have to write write write while the instructor talked, and then he'd have to go back and reread all of his notes in order to understand what the instructor said. I said, "That doesn't surprise me ONE BIT.":lol: (When encountering a new situation, he seems to not be able to follow the conversation very well either - just seems a bit behind the beat. APD totally explains that as well!)

 

Anyway, one thing I found rather interesting is that in the new proposed DSM-5 for "autistic spectrum disorder," one of the criteria is that the communication problems had to have shown up early in childhood. I am hoping they will keep that in there because that will completely exclude my son. He was FINE until around 4th grade.

 

Ugh. Here I go again. PDD-NOS, MY FOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Do you have a loop schedule of sorts, or do you have a strict schedule where they complete the same subjects each day?

I used a loop schedule when we were gone too many hours a week for therapies. Now that we are sort of 'on the other side' for my son he has a certain requirement every day.

 

 

 

I hear ya. Fortunately we don't have a TON of outside activities, simply because my husband isn't around much. LOL he barely even knows what my kids are involved in. We'd been going to Taekwon-Do for a YEAR, and one day he acted completely shocked that we went on Wed. - he'd thought we went on Tues. (Of course he's not home for either, so it doesn't matter LOL.)

 

My kids go to AWANA on Sun. afternoons. My oldest (and starting in Sept. my 2nd as well) goes to AWANA on Mon. nights. #2 and #5 have Taekwon-Do on Wed. night. Oldest CURRENTLY has speech and language therapy (for his MRELD) on Mon. mornings, but I don't know how long that will go on, especially if it turns out that he has CAPD. I feel like we are treating a symptom rather than the cause, with our current plan of attack.

 

 

 

Boy, ain't that the truth?????? And heck, by then I'll probably be pregnant again, so I'll have to add in midwife appts. to the mix.:lol:

:001_smile:
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I'm currently reading When the Brain Can't Hear, and one of the kids she described was a kid with right-hemisphere APD. I was like THAT IS MY SON. I THINK he hears individual sounds and stuff fine (doesn't confuse letter sounds, etc.), but picking out the key points from a lecture, etc. - ugh. Interestingly, my husband mentioned last night that when he was in college, he literally COULD NOT listen to the professor enough to understand AND take notes at the same time. He would have to write write write while the instructor talked, and then he'd have to go back and reread all of his notes in order to understand what the instructor said. I said, "That doesn't surprise me ONE BIT.":lol: (When encountering a new situation, he seems to not be able to follow the conversation very well either - just seems a bit behind the beat. APD totally explains that as well!)

 

 

I think you're definitely on to something. Your husband's experience in school was exactly the same as mine, EXACTLY. And we are also math/science oriented in my family with uber-geek IQ's, but not particularly outstanding in the language department. In my case, I even appeared to excel in the language area, particularly on SATs and tests with a lot of fill-ins because I compensated with visual memory tricks. But auditory processing and word retrieval are terrible weaknesses for me. From things I've read, there seems to be a genetic cause for this pattern of strengths and weaknesses.

 

My most recently diagnosed son (15 yo) apparently has right-hemisphere APD (neuropsych told me response patterns indicated "right brain damage", but I haven't received a detailed report from the audiologist yet). He doesn't confuse letters and sounds (scored in the gifted range on testing, which according to a superficial assessment, rules out CAPD). But the audiologist explained to us that by the time a person with CAPD is in their teens, they have often come up with many compensatory strategies. However, the underlying communication disability persists, and as you pointed out, can really have an detrimental effect on lectures, conversations, etc.

 

Anyway, one thing I found rather interesting is that in the new proposed DSM-5 for "autistic spectrum disorder," one of the criteria is that the communication problems had to have shown up early in childhood. I am hoping they will keep that in there because that will completely exclude my son. He was FINE until around 4th grade.

 

Ugh. Here I go again. PDD-NOS, MY FOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes, and in fact, that's why, when push came to shove, they couldn't label my son with PDD, either (the report said they're "holding the label in reserve", which doesn't surprise me, because the woman told me multiple times she is an "autism expert" and I don't think she liked being questioned about her false assumptions:tongue_smilie:). His early behavioral history doesn't match. Nor does his social behavior. Eye contact and facial expressions can be impacted by auditory problems, which is the culprit in his case. And it also stands to reason that IQ testing or other assessments with a major oral component can't be assumed to be accurate when given to a person with CAPD. It would be like someone having their eyeglasses snatched away, told to demonstrate their reading ability, and then being judged a struggling reader on that basis alone. So I'm not even sure that the neuropsych results have much validity (report describes him as a left-brained learner, in my experience and according to the speech therapist's eval, he's a right-brained thinker. :tongue_smilie:). It makes me laugh to imagine certain people I know (my uncle, cousins, brother, certain friends, maybe even me?) going for a neuropsych eval, because if our recent experience is anything to go by, we could easily come out with the same inaccurate label.

 

Do you have a loop schedule of sorts, or do you have a strict schedule where they complete the same subjects each day?

 

We've tried both. When really maxed out, the loop goes out the window and we resort to the straight list of 2 or 3 basics (I try to combine reading and history, for instance, or reading and science, etc. to shorten the to-do list.) The longer the list, the heavier the load feels like, even if we are, in essence covering the same amount, KWIM? Keeping it simple is ultimately more efficient in our case. I'm planning to loop a few extras in during our next cycle, which will probably go until the summer. Also I'm planning to have a totally different schedule on Fridays (experiments, arts, crafts, special projects) because we have no outside activities to deal with on that day. So we'll see how it goes. Nothing is perfect, so we just keep struggling along, adjusting to the priorities of the current semester... :)

 

I hear ya. Fortunately we don't have a TON of outside activities, simply because my husband isn't around much. LOL he barely even knows what my kids are involved in. We'd been going to Taekwon-Do for a YEAR, and one day he acted completely shocked that we went on Wed. - he'd thought we went on Tues. (Of course he's not home for either, so it doesn't matter LOL.)

 

My husband isn't around much either, but he does do the grocery shopping and mega-cooking on weekends which is a huge help. But he's too busy to do much else. The only outside activities I commit to are either doable as a family or therapeutic (and hopefully both, like karate :)). Even so, it feels like too much at times.

 

My kids go to AWANA on Sun. afternoons. My oldest (and starting in Sept. my 2nd as well) goes to AWANA on Mon. nights. #2 and #5 have Taekwon-Do on Wed. night. Oldest CURRENTLY has speech and language therapy (for his MRELD) on Mon. mornings, but I don't know how long that will go on, especially if it turns out that he has CAPD. I feel like we are treating a symptom rather than the cause, with our current plan of attack.

 

Well, if it does turn out he has CAPD, you may not need to do much differently. We've done more adapting rather than intervention. My younger child with CAPD is still in the stage where working on metacognitive communication and social skills training is helpful, but for my teenager, the greatest benefit from the dx is just that he's now AWARE of the problem and can compensate in college, etc. (And stop assuming other people are saying strange things, rather than ascertaining whether HE may have misheard). Like when my husband's boss called the house, and ds answered the phone, and yelled, "It's Auntie Miltie"! loud enough for her to hear . So embarrassing, and we don't HAVE an Auntie Miltie. :lol:

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Like when my husband's boss called the house, and ds answered the phone, and yelled, "It's Auntie Miltie"! loud enough for her to hear . So embarrassing, and we don't HAVE an Auntie Miltie. :lol:

 

OK I don't have time to reply to your whole post right now, but this TOTALLY cracked me up!!!!! As in, I'm sure my dd was wondering what I was laughing at! that is absolutely HYSTERICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol::lol::lol:

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Like when my husband's boss called the house, and ds answered the phone, and yelled, "It's Auntie Miltie"! loud enough for her to hear . So embarrassing, and we don't HAVE an Auntie Miltie. :lol:

 

:lol::grouphug: Having CAPD with my kids...I can so relate to this story..happens all the time!

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Kristin,

 

I don't know. A few things to think about.

 

Fist watch how much time you are spending on any one thing. In my personally experience as a dyselxic I can only take in so much in one day. It takes me longer to work through things and process them. I do better working a little bit every day on something than I do working intensely for a short period of time. When I do something for a short period of time I am likely to appear to own it, but over the long term I start having recall problems and gaps.

 

For example, it literally took my oldest two 5 years to learn and properly recall all the phonograms. I am picky about them remembering the right order, because in SWR/AAS they are in order of most commonly used first to least commonly used. They would have had it 18 months earlier otherwise. Now that they own it, they own it. I only cover it monthly and they having gotten one wrong in about a year. This is of concern to me becuase I learned to read via phonics, I can remember the teacher calling on me to stand up and go over the phonograms and I froze, but by high school I couldn't sound out a word to save my life. I want this in long term memory, dreaming about it sort of thing, KWIM?

 

There is no way my ds has the stamina to go for a 2 hour reading session, even if he isn't doing any other hs. I have delayed grammar, and writing becuase he is not yet a strong reader. He won't start either till 3rd grade, and neither did my middle two for the same reasons. But with Barton he was yawning and rubbing his eyes by the time he had been working on it for 5 minuets. I know some of the gals get away with more time by switching the type of work being done, going from reading to a game, then to some spelling, then another game. Ds probably could have gotten up to an hour that way, but I honestly never spent more than 30 mins a day on it. We spend the rest of his time doing math, and working enunciation and fine motors skills (Kumon cutting, tracing, folding type stuff).

 

Now that I have tailored things to his needs he can go longer without showing fatigue.

 

Also realize that while you can get them reading, and that will help with the rest of school, it isn't really a fix. They may never be that into reading, they won't be able to read large quantities of information and comprehend it in a short period of time and they will need to use multi-sensory methods as much as possible to compensate for their weak areas. They often will simply be delayed in abilities longer than other kids. I personally didn't really start to understand and use my analytical skills till I was in my 20's. Now it is one of my strongest skills.

 

I don't know where you are at right now. I know this is all overwhelming. My only concern is that you might be thinking you can fix this and move on. Unless it turns out to be vision related there isn't a fix. There are things that help and there are learning environments that work better than others (coping by knowing how you learn best). But as an adult dyslexic who has taught 4 dyslexic children with multiple therapies, I am still dyslexic. I still flip words, have right life confusion, will flip entire directions in my head and argue with dh about it, still skip works, and substitute the for a. I have improved in these areas, but there isn't a cure. At the same time it isn't all bad. My ability to analyze is a common skill among dyslexics, and I used to be gift with dance and especially remembering routines (movement).

 

My point is I would take a long term view and find a schedule that can accommodate both working with the remedial programs and regular school. You might delay some topics till later, like I do with grammar and writing. But I wouldn't delay math, handwriting, Bible, and even history and science. I would just keep them simple.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Generally I start with my oldest and define their immediate needs. Those I work on daily. Anything I feel I can't drop but isn't an immediate need I put on a loop schedule so it gets done twice a week, but not daily. Then I go to the next child and do the same. But you have the least amount of time with your oldest, so they need to be the focus first. Thus my oldest does one step in AAS over 1-2 days, my 2nd dd does a step over 2-4 days (week) and my 3rd dd, spends a couple of weeks on a step. They all move forward, but the oldest gets the bulk of my time till she finishes.

 

Heather

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Thanks, Heather. Very wise words.

 

My main concern is that they are falling further and further behind because we aren't addressing the root issues.

 

For example, my oldest is supposed to enter high school next year, yet he is BARELY doing 6th grade science. I think if we could 1) get an accurate diagnosis, and 2) really work on his language skills, he could at least get to where he could halfway understand what is going on when he reads/listens to someone speak about the subject matter. There simply aren't enough purely visual materials to let him continue like he currently is. I cannot continue to hold his hand and DRAG him through school, only to have him only partly understand it. In order for him to truly understand his materials (and again, he's working on a level about 2 years behind), I would need to spend more time one on one with him than I do my 1st grader. He doesn't want that, and I CAN'T do that.

 

I have another that is just as severe as he is and two that are less so but still struggle. Meanwhile I have 3 other kids that need to be educated/cared for. I simply don't have the time to NOT do something. So I know I need to really work intensively with them, yet I know I can't do that on top of our normal stuff. If I can get them to working on grade level or maybe even a year behind, and if I can get them (especially my oldest) to where I don't have to explain things like INSTRUCTIONS multiple times due to him not being able to understand (not even the concepts - he doesn't even understand the INSTRUCTIONS!:tongue_smilie: ), it will be time well spent.

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:iagree:A few years ago, I heard an interview on Homeschool.com , "How We Homeschooled Our 6 kids to Stanford on 1 hour a day". It was the interview of a homeschool dad that is a doctor.

The bottom line was that they focused on the basics, reading, writing, and math. The rest of the time the children read.

While that talk doesn't completely apply to us because he didn't talk about them needing special help in reading, etc., the main point still does.

 

If your ds13 doesn't improve his reading comprehension, then what is the point of doing science, etc.

Whereas, if his reading comprehension picks up then he will be able to do the other subjects.

 

It sounds as if your son is more on the auditory associative deficit. This is what the audiologist concluded for my ds14. He did read early on. His reading slowed down after/during 3rd grade. Decoding and phonemic awarenes were fine.

 

He sounds very much like my son.

A couple of years ago before doing the CAPD evaluation, I had completed vision therapy and my son was/is still a slow reader so I contacted Susan Barton. She told me her program was not for my son.

 

I am now working on Great Leaps, Reading Plus, Visualizing and Verbalizing, and trying to figure out what to do with this bright, talented child that has reading comprehension issues.

 

Prior to the CAPD, I had purchased some online science programs that I thought would work well since it was both visual and auditory. He can read it well and not understand what it means.

Yet, he learned alot of history listening to all the volumes of SOTW.

 

All this to say, that yes, sometimes it is necessary to focus on the therapies or needs to improve their basic skills.

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Also realize that while you can get them reading, and that will help with the rest of school, it isn't really a fix. They may never be that into reading, they won't be able to read large quantities of information and comprehend it in a short period of time and they will need to use multi-sensory methods as much as possible to compensate for their weak areas. They often will simply be delayed in abilities longer than other kids.

 

:iagree:

 

I've come to the same conclusion. And accepting that it's not possible to "fix" these problems overnight (or maybe ever, completely) helps us appreciate the slow but consistent improvements that happen over time as the major accomplishments they truly are. :)

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:lol::grouphug: Having CAPD with my kids...I can so relate to this story..happens all the time!

 

:smilielol5:

 

So many utterly ridiculous faux pas in CAPD World. Someone should write a book!

 

I think it's also the reason my house is so noisy - everyone talking over each other, past each other, just a terrible hubbub of miscommunication! :eek:

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It sounds as if your son is more on the auditory associative deficit.

 

Yep, this is exactly what I'm suspecting. He just words things really weird sometimes and can't understand what we are saying other times. As in, my SIX-year-old understands more than he does language-wise.:001_huh:

 

I'm just ITCHING to get him tested for CAPD. Just gotta figure out WHERE.....

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to further help with management strategies http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/capd5/

 

Are you gettiing or able to get speech services for your child? private through insurance or through your school district to help with receptive language?

 

I was rereading your original post..I know that both PS , private and special ed depts of accredited homeschool programs will let you acomodate material for the student especially with CAPD. For example I am enrolled with MODG and they recommend a Concepts and Challenges Science for the middle school years. Many of the moms with CAPD kids (mine included) can use this series for 9th and 10th grade . It has short chapters and at the end of each paragraph it poses a challenge to the student to go back into the paragraph to find the main concept that was discussed. It is great for our CAPD kids because they don't have to digest alot of material at once or read through many paragraphs to find the answer. It is great for notetaking skills etc. My 6th grader has been using it with great success..he really likes science now. My more severe CAPD dtr will most probobly use this for late middle school and high school years. I mention this because sometimes we may have to use different material even material used or recommended for a lower grade level in order to accomplish our goal. We may not be able to remediate entirely, but still learning can happen.

 

I know you mention money ..cost being a factor in not using a tutor. VT screening cost me out of pocket a pretty penny and I am spending $250 a week (I go 2x a week). I put this off because of finances last year,but we refinanced the home to raise some funds. Hopefully this won't be the case in your area and/or insurance covers it for you. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

 

Now I don't know what the situation is like in your school district or state in receiving services, but NY has been more generous (who knows with state budget cuts in the future). I know some people won't even look to the PS for help. Anyway, I was hesitant over the years to use the ps system, but I am on year three with services and things are only getting better. A good OT can help alot with vision perceptual issues, motor intergration etc. I even found out my ps has a vision therapist that roams the schools to help severe cases (wasn't dislosed at my IEP meeting but the special ed teacher trained in Wilson that helps my dtr in the afternoon told me) but it is good to know for future children.

 

I wish you the best..you have a lot on your plate. I did alot of home therapies for a 1 1/2 years because I was broke and tired from running to private OT and speech therapy ( I had a baby and toddler at home with the older kids) .. I saw some progress, but I was getting burnt and frustrated. I am very happy now with our routine. I school her in the morning and then in the afternoon she gets tutoring and speech through the school system. We run to VT twice a week for therapy and I do 10-15 minutes worth of exercices on the other days. I take off Sunday. This may not be an option for you ,but I thought I would share what is working now for my dtr and I. The other child I am able to accommodate with the material suggested through MODG. My 4 yr old receives speech at home through Early Intervention. I didn't do this with the others, but am realizing that I need help and will take whatever I can get now.

Another thing..my dtr has severe word recall and retrieval issues. Her testing showed she has a low working memory as well as motor planning, CAPD, Vision issues etc. Her speech therapist at school has been a real help to me and I know she works with many children like mine at the school so it is a common problem.

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Thanks, Heather. Very wise words.

 

My main concern is that they are falling further and further behind because we aren't addressing the root issues.

 

For example, my oldest is supposed to enter high school next year, yet he is BARELY doing 6th grade science. I think if we could 1) get an accurate diagnosis, and 2) really work on his language skills, he could at least get to where he could halfway understand what is going on when he reads/listens to someone speak about the subject matter. There simply aren't enough purely visual materials to let him continue like he currently is. I cannot continue to hold his hand and DRAG him through school, only to have him only partly understand it. In order for him to truly understand his materials (and again, he's working on a level about 2 years behind), I would need to spend more time one on one with him than I do my 1st grader. He doesn't want that, and I CAN'T do that.

 

I have another that is just as severe as he is and two that are less so but still struggle. Meanwhile I have 3 other kids that need to be educated/cared for. I simply don't have the time to NOT do something. So I know I need to really work intensively with them, yet I know I can't do that on top of our normal stuff. If I can get them to working on grade level or maybe even a year behind, and if I can get them (especially my oldest) to where I don't have to explain things like INSTRUCTIONS multiple times due to him not being able to understand (not even the concepts - he doesn't even understand the INSTRUCTIONS!:tongue_smilie: ), it will be time well spent.

I hear you. And I think for a short time you have to just focus on the basics.

 

But if I were in your shoes? I would buy him the Sonlight Discover and Do DVD's, the corresponding Usborne experiment books and the experiment kit. Thus he could see the experiment, read and hear about the experiment before he does it. Then as he progresses in his comprehension, he can progress into more complicated experiment kits (there are a ton recommended in WTM). The hands on compensates for the reading and hearing problems he has. He may or may not get to "high school" science, hopefully he will. But in the mean time he is progressing and learning independent of you. Other really good options for physics (at the high school level) are Kinetic books and the Stop Faking It series (it might also cover chemistry), the last because it uses regular terminology to explain instead of science buzz words. You might say it talks down to the reader, but if they get it, who cares!

 

I know you are aware that it generally takes 3 years to get through Barton, and most o/g programs are going to have a similar timeline. I can't see you stopping everything for 3 years. You can find creative ways to do both.

 

Given you think he has auditory processing issues, you will probably need to start with LiPS. You probably only need the manual for this, and this one you will go through pretty quickly, but you will continue to use it for a long time. The third section of the Baton student screening will let you know for sure.

 

Beyond that I would suggest you e-mail Susan Barton with the problems your ds is demonstrating and see if she thinks Barton will work for him. She has told people no, so she isn't just about the sales.

 

Heather

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About two yrs. or so ago I asked this same question. I didn't and looking back, regret it. If I could go back, I would have ds do a math lesson and maybe some writing each day. Writing is our biggest issue so I may have just done reading instead.

 

Anyway, at younger ages, it isn't critical for them to study science, history, etc. Science videos are great and kids learn a lot from them.

 

My 4-year old is needing my attention now so I'd better go. I hope it works out well for you. Keep us posted.

 

Denise

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Siloam,

 

I truly admire you.

 

I'm amazed at all that you do.:willy_nilly:

 

By the grace of God...

 

I am not that hard a worker by nature. I was an only child, so I have a lazy and procrastinating streak a mile long. In fact I am still in PJ's and have only had breakfast this morning. It has been just one of those weeks, KWIM?

 

But I love learning, so that keeps me going. At this stage I am in a constant state of being overwhelmed, but I have learned to just keep taking the next step despite it. It is one little step at a time, over time that get you there.

 

One other thought, before I get my hiney up and go exercise. Back in 4th grade when everyone else's kids were having problems with fractions my oldest didn't, she got them. Yea! Given my kids have always been "behind" on grade level I decided it would be a great time to speed things up for a while and play catch up. She doubled her work, and got through it in no time. But as we continued on she started to show huge gaps. It wasn't that she didn't get it, she still understood it, but her recall and understanding came and went in traditional dyslexia fashion. With myself and my kids we need a certain amount of time to absorb things, or we don't own them. Now in 7th grade she is going backwards and doing Lial's BCM to solidify her understanding of fractions. In hind sight I wish we would have just done it at our normal, slow and steady pace.

 

Now your kids might be different than mine. Maybe this isn't a dyslexia issue, maybe it is some other sort of issue. But here doing things intensely over a short period of time just doesn't work in the long term. Doing a little over a long period of time, so we can really absorb it, works. We own it and can go head to head with the best of them.

 

Heather

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to further help with management strategies http://www.angelfire.com/bc2/capd5/

 

Thanks - I will check that out.

 

Are you gettiing or able to get speech services for your child? private through insurance or through your school district to help with receptive language?

 

He is currently receiving speech therapy for his receptive and expressive language, but it focuses mostly on the use of idioms and figurative language, since that is where his testing showed the most weaknesses. He does some work with inferences and predictions as well. Unfortunately the SLP is just as stumped as I am when it comes to how to address some of his other problems (his "how"/"why" confusion, confusing "after" and "until," and just some of the other weird way he words things) since he is so inconsistent with them.

 

For example, he and my fil were e-mailing each other prior to us traveling there for a hunting trip. Fil said that maybe ds would get a buck or a doe. Ds replied that yes, maybe a buck or a doe or a deer too.:confused: Fil was like, does he not know what a buck or a doe is????? But I said yes, he does - that's a perfect example of just something ODD that he'd say!

 

Or just yesterday, ds was delegating as he and his siblings were doing chores, and he was frustrated because my other ds was kind of being a lazy bum and not picking up his assigned area. "CAPD" ds said, "This is really so hard!" But what he MEANT was, "Is this really so hard?????" When I said that, he agreed that yes, that's what he meant. (To which I said, "Is THAT so hard????" :lol: )

 

So it's just off the wall, bizarre stuff that has no apparent rhyme or reason, and his SLP and I really scratch our heads at times. Ds says his speech therapy is helping - he's able to use idioms and figures of speech a bit more easily, or at least he's not left COMPLETELY in the dark when other people use them. But it's a lot of time and some money, and I'm thinking it's just a band-aid if we leave it as is and don't address the root cause (if there is one).

 

I was rereading your original post..I know that both PS , private and special ed depts of accredited homeschool programs will let you acomodate material for the student especially with CAPD. For example I am enrolled with MODG and they recommend a Concepts and Challenges Science for the middle school years. Many of the moms with CAPD kids (mine included) can use this series for 9th and 10th grade . It has short chapters and at the end of each paragraph it poses a challenge to the student to go back into the paragraph to find the main concept that was discussed. It is great for our CAPD kids because they don't have to digest alot of material at once or read through many paragraphs to find the answer. It is great for notetaking skills etc. My 6th grader has been using it with great success..he really likes science now. My more severe CAPD dtr will most probobly use this for late middle school and high school years. I mention this because sometimes we may have to use different material even material used or recommended for a lower grade level in order to accomplish our goal. We may not be able to remediate entirely, but still learning can happen.

 

I'll check into your recommendation - I've never heard of it before.

 

But yes, what I've got him currently doing is 6th grade BJU science online. The language is a TAD bit advanced, but having someone present the material in addition to just reading it helps. I was planning to possibly just continue in this series (unless I can find something I like better) for high school, since I just might be able to call BJU's Life Science "Intro to Biology" or something of that nature.

 

I know you mention money ..cost being a factor in not using a tutor. VT screening cost me out of pocket a pretty penny and I am spending $250 a week (I go 2x a week). I put this off because of finances last year,but we refinanced the home to raise some funds. Hopefully this won't be the case in your area and/or insurance covers it for you. Just wanted to give you a heads up.

 

Yes, I'm kind of in denial at this point.:tongue_smilie: I know our insurance doesn't cover the therapy. Not sure about the evaluation. I still need to see if they could be included in our flex savings account.

 

Now I don't know what the situation is like in your school district or state in receiving services, but NY has been more generous (who knows with state budget cuts in the future). I know some people won't even look to the PS for help. Anyway, I was hesitant over the years to use the ps system, but I am on year three with services and things are only getting better. A good OT can help alot with vision perceptual issues, motor intergration etc. I even found out my ps has a vision therapist that roams the schools to help severe cases (wasn't dislosed at my IEP meeting but the special ed teacher trained in Wilson that helps my dtr in the afternoon told me) but it is good to know for future children.

 

Well, I've attempted to get help from our local school district. They said that they wouldn't be able to help me because 1) our kids aren't enrolled, and 2) they aren't severe enough. #1 - I'm not sure about the legalities of, but I haven't had the time to look into it. But I am actually considering enrolling my crew in the school district's homeschool enrichment program, which WOULD effectively mean they were "enrolled." I need to check with the coordinator on that. With #2, they follow Response to Intervention, so they don't even administer any sort of testing or evaluations unless the Tier 2 interventions aren't working and the child isn't progressing *at all*. (The lady stressed "at all" to me.) When she found out that my 8th grader is reading on a 5th-6th level, she was elated and said that no, they wouldn't do anything for him - they'd only be concerned if he was not reading at all or reading on a 1st grade level.

 

So since I know that getting services through my school district would be an uphill battle, I only want to go there if I absolutely HAVE to, KWIM?:tongue_smilie:

 

Another thing..my dtr has severe word recall and retrieval issues. Her testing showed she has a low working memory as well as motor planning, CAPD, Vision issues etc. Her speech therapist at school has been a real help to me and I know she works with many children like mine at the school so it is a common problem.

 

What sort of things are you doing to help with her word retrieval and her low working memory? My dyslexic 10yo dd struggles with that. Her word retrieval STINKS, both in testing and when she's trying to tell me something LOL.

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But if I were in your shoes? I would buy him the Sonlight Discover and Do DVD's, the corresponding Usborne experiment books and the experiment kit. Thus he could see the experiment, read and hear about the experiment before he does it. Then as he progresses in his comprehension, he can progress into more complicated experiment kits (there are a ton recommended in WTM). The hands on compensates for the reading and hearing problems he has. He may or may not get to "high school" science, hopefully he will. But in the mean time he is progressing and learning independent of you. Other really good options for physics (at the high school level) are Kinetic books and the Stop Faking It series (it might also cover chemistry), the last because it uses regular terminology to explain instead of science buzz words. You might say it talks down to the reader, but if they get it, who cares!

 

Thanks for these recommendations - I'll check them out! I just posted above what he's currently doing for science.

 

Given you think he has auditory processing issues, you will probably need to start with LiPS. You probably only need the manual for this, and this one you will go through pretty quickly, but you will continue to use it for a long time. The third section of the Baton student screening will let you know for sure.

 

I don't *think* he has trouble discriminating sounds like the typical speech-sound type of CAPD. His seems to be more of the right-hemisphere sort of thing. But I did print out the screening for him and my 12yo. Won't hurt to give it to everyone in one fell swoop.:lol: I do know that when I was doing AAS with him, he struggled with segmenting the sounds in the words. But the sort of problems he seems to have (as evidenced by what he SAYS) don't make me suspect that he doesn't hear the sounds properly. I'll be surprised if that's the case...but you never know!!!!!

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Thanks - I will check that out.

 

 

 

He is currently receiving speech therapy for his receptive and expressive language, but it focuses mostly on the use of idioms and figurative language, since that is where his testing showed the most weaknesses. He does some work with inferences and predictions as well. Unfortunately the SLP is just as stumped as I am when it comes to how to address some of his other problems (his "how"/"why" confusion, confusing "after" and "until," and just some of the other weird way he words things) since he is so inconsistent with them.

Ok this is consistent with APD kids and motor planning (dyspraxia). My dtr just started asking why, what etc. We still work on sense of place, before after etc. Concepts like dawn and dusk take much longer to comprehend. Vocabulary in general just takes longer. We always comment around here that it seems like my son in particular just came out of a cave (he is 11) when he suddenly says the obvious to the rest of us. Because literally the light bulb has finally gone on for him, whether it be new vocabulary that connects or a social clue etc. These kids did not enjoy being read to as younger children but crave it now as they have gotten older.

 

 

For example, he and my fil were e-mailing each other prior to us traveling there for a hunting trip. Fil said that maybe ds would get a buck or a doe. Ds replied that yes, maybe a buck or a doe or a deer too.:confused: Fil was like, does he not know what a buck or a doe is????? But I said yes, he does - that's a perfect example of just something ODD that he'd say!

You cannot take for granted what he knows vocabulary wise..I was very surprised what I took for granted. Explicit instruction is always needed. The Wordly Wise series is very good to build up vocabulary. Start at level 2 or 3. It is very independent work even for SN kids.

 

Or just yesterday, ds was delegating as he and his siblings were doing chores, and he was frustrated because my other ds was kind of being a lazy bum and not picking up his assigned area. "CAPD" ds said, "This is really so hard!" But what he MEANT was, "Is this really so hard?????" When I said that, he agreed that yes, that's what he meant. (To which I said, "Is THAT so hard????" :lol: )Your lucky he included is..my dtr always leaves it out. Syntax is very difficult for these kids. Repetition, repetition..my SLP constantly uses grammar pages from linguisystems. I do daily grammar drills using grade 1 level material. The SLP and I also encourage alot of self correction. So you repeat back exactly what the child said with a quizzical look on your face..give time for them to process it and see if they can come up with the right syntax..if not cue them

 

So it's just off the wall, bizarre stuff that has no apparent rhyme or reason, and his SLP and I really scratch our heads at times. Ds says his speech therapy is helping - he's able to use idioms and figures of speech a bit more easily, or at least he's not left COMPLETELY in the dark when other people use them. But it's a lot of time and some money, and I'm thinking it's just a band-aid if we leave it as is and don't address the root cause (if there is one).OK, my dtr's first two SLP's used to frustrate me with their frustration..who needs that..the school therapist is younger but seems more versed in different disorders ..she researches, thinks outside the box, gets training..anyway she knows it will be slow and steady but she assures me that there are other kids like my kids and with time and training things will improve..but just like inmy husband's family it will not be their strength and they will learn coping and compensating strategies.

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I'll check into your recommendation - I've never heard of it before.

 

But yes, what I've got him currently doing is 6th grade BJU science online. The language is a TAD bit advanced, but having someone present the material in addition to just reading it helps. I was planning to possibly just continue in this series (unless I can find something I like better) for high school, since I just might be able to call BJU's Life Science "Intro to Biology" or something of that nature.Exactly..at least you are being honest because my husband and his brother never got through their biology text..but were passed along anyway

 

 

 

Yes, I'm kind of in denial at this point.:tongue_smilie: I know our insurance doesn't cover the therapy. Not sure about the evaluation. I still need to see if they could be included in our flex savings account.

 

 

 

Well, I've attempted to get help from our local school district. They said that they wouldn't be able to help me because 1) our kids aren't enrolled, and 2) they aren't severe enough. #1 - I'm not sure about the legalities of, but I haven't had the time to look into it. But I am actually considering enrolling my crew in the school district's homeschool enrichment program, which WOULD effectively mean they were "enrolled." I need to check with the coordinator on that. With #2, they follow Response to Intervention, so they don't even administer any sort of testing or evaluations unless the Tier 2 interventions aren't working and the child isn't progressing *at all*. (The lady stressed "at all" to me.) When she found out that my 8th grader is reading on a 5th-6th level, she was elated and said that no, they wouldn't do anything for him - they'd only be concerned if he was not reading at all or reading on a 1st grade level.

 

So since I know that getting services through my school district would be an uphill battle, I only want to go there if I absolutely HAVE to, KWIM?:tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

What sort of things are you doing to help with her word retrieval and her low working memory? My dyslexic 10yo dd struggles with that. Her word retrieval STINKS, both in testing and when she's trying to tell me something LOL.

For auditory issues..The SLP does her stuff..sequencing, retelling stories, naming things and then recalling. She helps her with planning, first second, third. I do alot of narrations and sentence dictations but prior to that we used EAROBICS at home. We are now at a stage in retelling that I read a story one day, the next day she retells what she remembers..and I do have to give her cues to help with names or multisyllabic words, the third day she copies it and the final day illustrate. Beginning of the year, she needed the visual piece first and another retelling before she sould retell the story.She still doesn't know her addition math facts well..I was told repetition, repetition ad nauseum..Visual was low too so that is why I splurged on VT because they will help build up her scanning and processing issues.Maybe give her a leg up on something. We used Brainware Safari with both kids last year and will get back to it soon. That addresses auditory, visual and cognitive memory and processing issues. But you really can't leave them there at the computer..you have to play coach. My 13 yr old would help me oversee them. The same with Earobics. I know there is more we do with SLP and home but she is so severe 2% Working Memory in testing that I can't even think of any magic pill that will help her. One thing I did do was a full medical work up to rule out genetic or metabolic etc issues..We found out she was deficient in copper (can cause learning issues ..so we are supplementing her) and has the same severe environmental allergies the older boy has. So she will start seeing the allergist for shots as my son did (which BTW helped him progress better with his studies) The allergist and pediatrician says severe allergies impede learning. My dtr's level is over 3,000 IGe...Anyway once we are done with VT and start allergy shots I will reassess..FastForword was recommended for memory issue, neuropsych workup for a fuller picture of her brain..see if anxiety is a cause..or she is anxious because of dyspraxic issues, and frustration with learning..visual spatial weakness can cause anxiousness..so I am waiting to see what gets resolved before spending more money:tongue_smilie:
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Or just yesterday, ds was delegating as he and his siblings were doing chores, and he was frustrated because my other ds was kind of being a lazy bum and not picking up his assigned area. "CAPD" ds said, "This is really so hard!" But what he MEANT was, "Is this really so hard?????" When I said that, he agreed that yes, that's what he meant. (To which I said, "Is THAT so hard????" :lol:

 

I don't in generally have those types of issues in oral language. But I can guess at it by looking at areas the children and I do have problems with.

 

For example dd was reading a story out loud to me yesterday and the sentence started, "It was then..." The first time she read it she read, "then..." I had her back up and re-read it and the second time she read, "It then was..." At this point I stopped her again and read it to her, and she sat there and argued with me that she had said it right the second time. Possible, but I was having a good day and she was having a bad one.

 

Point being that when things get jumbled like that I generally think I am correct because what I am thinking and what I am saying are two different things. Just like a dyslexic can flip directions, and write b/d backwords, or whole words, they are jumbling up the sentence.

 

When I can't find the right word that I am trying to remember I generally know something is wrong. I have the bell going off in my head, but I just can't see the path to make it right. My guess is your ds has some sort of processing issue where he isn't able to retrieve and use what language he does know. With the deer example he probably knows doe and buck, but isn't able to pull up what the mean right then, so he says deer because he can remember that one. Once you remind him that is what doe and buck mean he suddenly goes, "I know that!" He does, it is not a matter of understanding it is a problem with retrieving and using the information. Like there has been a wreck on the highway and it can't get through right then. With a little time or help it gets through.

 

It sounds like he might also have some working memory issues, if he is asking for reminders. This is one place where Visualizing and Verbalizing might really help. He can use pictures in his mind to help him remember what he needs to do and how to do it. Does he often re-sound out the same word just a page later? Or do a math fact sheet and obviously has to redo the problems over again even through they have already been covered on the same page? These would also point to low working memory. Seeing Stars and On Cloud Nine would probably help if those are issues.

 

Heather

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You cannot take for granted what he knows vocabulary wise..I was very surprised what I took for granted. Explicit instruction is always needed. The Wordly Wise series is very good to build up vocabulary. Start at level 2 or 3. It is very independent work even for SN kids.

 

Oh, he knows what buck and doe mean. He uses them all the time properly, and when I asked him about that interchange later, even he was confused as to why he said that, since he knows what they mean. It's nuts LOL!

 

When I can't find the right word that I am trying to remember I generally know something is wrong. I have the bell going off in my head, but I just can't see the path to make it right. My guess is your ds has some sort of processing issue where he isn't able to retrieve and use what language he does know. With the deer example he probably knows doe and buck, but isn't able to pull up what the mean right then, so he says deer because he can remember that one. Once you remind him that is what doe and buck mean he suddenly goes, "I know that!" He does, it is not a matter of understanding it is a problem with retrieving and using the information. Like there has been a wreck on the highway and it can't get through right then. With a little time or help it gets through.

 

Interesting - that does make a lot of sense.

 

It sounds like he might also have some working memory issues, if he is asking for reminders. This is one place where Visualizing and Verbalizing might really help. He can use pictures in his mind to help him remember what he needs to do and how to do it.

 

Hmmmmmmm, I don't know that he really asks for reminders. Typically he just sort of breezes through stuff and doesn't ask for help at ALL when he doesn't understand something. In fact, both his SLP and I are trying to drill into him that he simply CANNOT do that. If something doesn't make sense, he needs to ask for clarification, rather than just sort of letting it all flow by like he normally does.:tongue_smilie:

 

Does he often re-sound out the same word just a page later? Or do a math fact sheet and obviously has to redo the problems over again even through they have already been covered on the same page? These would also point to low working memory. Seeing Stars and On Cloud Nine would probably help if those are issues.
Not really.

 

It may help you to ask for a full speech/language, educational and psych testing from the PS, you are entitled as a homeschholer. Just state that due to learning and language issues you will need testing done.

 

Oh boy, now you've brought up a sore spot.:lol: He actually HAS had a full-blown evaluation (at least they were supposed to be anyway....). He first had an educational evaluation done at our local Children's Hospital. That lady said that he had some attention and impulsivity issues, but she didn't really give us a whole lot of information. Then I had a speech/language eval done there, and that's when they found the MRELD. Then, thinking I need to just have one main person to look at his issues and say, "OK, here is where we need to go for further testing," I took him to the development clinic there. THAT was a huge mistake because I unknowingly took him to an AUTISM clinic and wrongly assumed that the forms they sent me to fill out would be used as screening tools. They took those forms and his poor use of language and some other forms they gave me THAT day (so I filled them out super fast) and diagnosed him with PDD-NOS, which he does NOT have. She also found that he has anxiety. Well, when I talked to him about it, he flat out said that he didn't understand the form they gave him to fill out, and that form is what she used to diagnose him with that.:banghead:

 

(I sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wish consumers of medical/psychological testing/procedures like this had some form of recourse! If I had bought a product like this at Target, I would have returned it lickity-split. But no, I'm just out the money, and these people are perfectly happy having done a sorry job with my son.)

 

I will say he has not had cognitive testing done. The psychologist at the development center wanted us to get it done because our insurance wouldn't pay for them to do it. Well then the school said no, they wouldn't do it since 1) we weren't enrolled and 2) he's "making progress." They only test when a child makes no progress whatsoever.:001_huh: So he hasn't had the cognitive testing done (like the WISC or Stanford-Binet or anything). I might take him to a local university where they supposedly do that sort of testing.

 

I DID manage to get him and my 8yo (who is worse than my 13yo, by far) appointments for CAPD testing on March 1.:D

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Yes, I'm kind of in denial at this point.:tongue_smilie: I know our insurance doesn't cover the therapy. Not sure about the evaluation. I still need to see if they could be included in our flex savings account.

 

When my son first qualified for OT we were in no way financially able to pay for therapy 2x a week. It just adds up too quickly. Fist we had the deductable, then we still had to pay a percentage, and then after all that they would only pay a part of a limited number of visits. The OT suggested we apply for the state medicaid insurance and ask to be qualified under a disability rather than our income. Sure enough, ds was approved (over 1 year later) and the medicaid began paying for this therapy after it verified what our insurance would and would not pay. We pay a small monthly premium pased on our income. They even went backwards and paid from the date we applied. The best part came later because the medicaid paid for his vision therapy and complete psychological eval as well. We did pay for his reading tutor out of pocket and were able to do that since we weren't paying for the other therapies. Now he has tested out of all his therapies and the state insurance will be discontinuing. I am not ashamed to have used it and am very thankful for it. It is a pain to apply for, and to keep up in the process, but it was very valuable for us. Without it our son would not have made the progress he has made.
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When my son first qualified for OT we were in no way financially able to pay for therapy 2x a week. It just adds up too quickly. Fist we had the deductable, then we still had to pay a percentage, and then after all that they would only pay a part of a limited number of visits. The OT suggested we apply for the state medicaid insurance and ask to be qualified under a disability rather than our income. Sure enough, ds was approved (over 1 year later) and the medicaid began paying for this therapy after it verified what our insurance would and would not pay. We pay a small monthly premium pased on our income. They even went backwards and paid from the date we applied. The best part came later because the medicaid paid for his vision therapy and complete psychological eval as well. We did pay for his reading tutor out of pocket and were able to do that since we weren't paying for the other therapies. Now he has tested out of all his therapies and the state insurance will be discontinuing. I am not ashamed to have used it and am very thankful for it. It is a pain to apply for, and to keep up in the process, but it was very valuable for us. Without it our son would not have made the progress he has made.

 

Interesting - I've never heard of that. How might I go about finding out if this is available in our state?

 

I did just look up what our flex savings account will include, and vision therapy is in there. Yay!

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I don't *think* he has trouble discriminating sounds like the typical speech-sound type of CAPD. His seems to be more of the right-hemisphere sort of thing. But I did print out the screening for him and my 12yo. Won't hurt to give it to everyone in one fell swoop.:lol: I do know that when I was doing AAS with him, he struggled with segmenting the sounds in the words. But the sort of problems he seems to have (as evidenced by what he SAYS) don't make me suspect that he doesn't hear the sounds properly. I'll be surprised if that's the case...but you never know!!!!![/color][/size][/font]

 

 

I TAKE THIS BACK. I just gave him the screening, and, although he passed, he said it was hard. I had to do several repeats, especially if he was not looking at me. I asked him what was hard about it, and he said, "hearing the sounds, especially with all the noise." THERE WAS NO REAL NOISE GOING ON.

 

I DON'T BELIEVE IT. I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET HELP FOR THIS KID FOR THREE STINKIN' YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm about to CRY I'm so excited.

 

(Now, if his CAPD testing shows he doesn't have it, I may have to just commit myself to a psychiatric hospital!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

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I TAKE THIS BACK. I just gave him the screening, and, although he passed, he said it was hard. I had to do several repeats, especially if he was not looking at me. I asked him what was hard about it, and he said, "hearing the sounds, especially with all the noise." THERE WAS NO REAL NOISE GOING ON.

 

I DON'T BELIEVE IT. I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET HELP FOR THIS KID FOR THREE STINKIN' YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm about to CRY I'm so excited.

 

(Now, if his CAPD testing shows he doesn't have it, I may have to just commit myself to a psychiatric hospital!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Woo Hoo! (Not that he had problems but that you are getting somewhere!)

 

There is a certain type of LD where the child actually can hear better than average, and they have a hard time filtering out what they hear for the information they need. You might want to look at that, even before you invest in something like LiPS. LiPS is a great program, but if what he needs to learn is how to filter sound, then it will help, but not fix it.

 

I suspect my ds has the same issue. He tends to talk really loud in group settings, which I think is because there is so much background noise/conversations going on. I haven't had him tested by a professional, but his pediatrician took extra long on his basic hearing test and said he had never had anyone test better.

 

Heather

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I TAKE THIS BACK. I just gave him the screening, and, although he passed, he said it was hard. I had to do several repeats, especially if he was not looking at me. I asked him what was hard about it, and he said, "hearing the sounds, especially with all the noise." THERE WAS NO REAL NOISE GOING ON.

 

I DON'T BELIEVE IT. I'M ON THE RIGHT TRACK. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET HELP FOR THIS KID FOR THREE STINKIN' YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm about to CRY I'm so excited.

 

(Now, if his CAPD testing shows he doesn't have it, I may have to just commit myself to a psychiatric hospital!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Well I would keep notes so you can have specifics to give to the audiologist.

Earobics is an inexpensive software that you could use for up to three users. I would invest in level 2 for your oldest son and your age 10 and 8 yr olds to get started on while you wait for testing.

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Well I would keep notes so you can have specifics to give to the audiologist.

Earobics is an inexpensive software that you could use for up to three users. I would invest in level 2 for your oldest son and your age 10 and 8 yr olds to get started on while you wait for testing.

 

What does Earobics actually DO? Would using it now skew the results of the CAPD testing? (I'm thinking no, but just in case....)

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Woo Hoo! (Not that he had problems but that you are getting somewhere!)

:iagree:

:party:

 

 

There is a certain type of LD where the child actually can hear better than average, and they have a hard time filtering out what they hear for the information they need.

 

I just said that to the Mom of my apraxic student, that with him, and many of my other students who have trouble, it actually seems like they hear *too* well, and hear the differences between subtle sound differences in letters that other people gloss over and imagine are the same thing. (For example, the different sounds of consonants at the beginning, middle, or end of a word, and the sound of ts as in cats, and how it is different from either a t or an s and is actually articulated as one sound.)

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I just said that to the Mom of my apraxic student, that with him, and many of my other students who have trouble, it actually seems like they hear *too* well, and hear the differences between subtle sound differences in letters that other people gloss over and imagine are the same thing. (For example, the different sounds of consonants at the beginning, middle, or end of a word, and the sound of ts as in cats, and how it is different from either a t or an s and is actually articulated as one sound.)

 

Or gee, like the different sounds short-a says in pan vs. cat....:cool:

 

I gave my dh the Barton Student Screening tonight, just for grins. He did about as well as my ds. Passed, but he did have trouble. VERY interesting indeed.

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Or gee, like the different sounds short-a says in pan vs. cat....:cool:

 

I gave my dh the Barton Student Screening tonight, just for grins. He did about as well as my ds. Passed, but he did have trouble. VERY interesting indeed.

 

So now you have another OG student to add to the list, that makes, what, only 99? So much for laundry or food or changing diapers or anything.

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If it was me, I would put everything except math and anything on CD or DVD on hold for a few months and try to figure out a good plan and schedule for all your language needs and get started teaching everyone to read and speak English. (Or, I might hide in bed, and I like teaching that kind of thing...)

 

I would consider Barton if you are going save all the levels and later tutor other students for pay, people are willing to pay more for Barton tutoring.

 

Otherwise, I would go with something cheaper and easier to combine and modify to teach several of your children at once.

 

If you are going to have to teach your son English like a foreign language, it might be helpful to find an actual ELL student in the area and work with them along with your son(s) for $ and/or watching your 1 and 3 year old. I would also try the Grammar Trainer demo, it looks promising. It was designed for autistic children, but is also recommended for children with an auditory processing diagnosis.

 

I would definitely get this DVD, well worth the $ and you can re-sell it later if you want.

 

:grouphug:

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