What all O-G programs are out there?

[razorbackmama]

My dd is newly diagnosed with dyslexia. She is just finishing up Level 4 of AAS, but the dyslexia tester said that she needs "intense" work with an O-G program, and I'd say AAS is more O-G "lite."

 

We do not have the time or the money to hire a tutor, so I will need to work with her myself.

 

I know Barton is available. One thing the tutor said is that it takes a really long time to introduce silent e (level 6), so whenever she has tutored, she will frequently adjust which order she teaches things, when she sees that kids should go ahead and learn certain things. Well, I don't know how to tell all that!:confused: So I'm wondering if there is another O-G program I might try?

 

I've seen Recipe for Reading suggested many times. You certainly can't beat the price!:D But has anyone actually USED it? Is it easy to use? I know that it helps you design your own O-G program, but just how does it go about doing that? Does it give enough information in it to substitute for something like Barton, Wilson, hiring a tutor? Or is it one of those books where the IDEA of it is better than actually trying to use it?:tongue_smilie:

 

Or should I just get Barton and do my best, and if all else fails, just go through it in the order that's laid out?

 

I'm using Saxon Phonics 1 with my 2nd and 1st graders. My 2nd grader I'm sure has dyslexia also (along with other things:tongue_smilie: ). My 1st grader is reading on a 2nd grade level, I'd say - she has no learning issues that I know of yet. Is Saxon considered an O-G program? Or is it just "based" on O-G (like AAS)? Would I be able to get the Saxon Intensive Phonics (or whatever it's called) for my dyslexic dd? For my 2nd grader, should I skip Saxon and just use whatever my diagnosed dyslexic is using (just at his level)?

 

The tutor halfway recommended the Gillingham Manual. She said the first part is written by Ph.D.s and people who are experts, and they really didn't write it in a way that's easy to understand. So she said that even she (who has a masters in education and does all this tutoring and stuff for a living) found the first part of the book EXTREMELY confusing. But she said the last part is pretty helpful. So I'm iffy about buying it....

 

Sorry for all the questions....

Edited January 10, 2011 by razorbackmama

[ElizabethB]

I've seen Recipe for Reading suggested many times. You certainly can't beat the price!:D But has anyone actually USED it? Is it easy to use? I know that it helps you design your own O-G program, but just how does it go about doing that? Does it give enough information in it to substitute for something like Barton, Wilson, hiring a tutor? Or is it one of those books where the IDEA of it is better than actually trying to use it?:tongue_smilie:

 

I bought it since many of my remedial students have been diagnosed as dyslexic and it was the cheapest OG thing I could find, I wanted to have something on hand if I needed an OG program.

 

So far, I've been able to get all my students to grade level using the things I have, so I have not used it, but I read through it and looked at how it worked to make sure it was something I could recommend to people who wanted an OG program.

 

It explicitly explains exactly what to do when and has word lists you can use from a white board or paper or with magnetic letters or tiles you make or whatever.

 

It also has several multi-sensory activities to do.

 

I loaned it out, so I don't have it available right now to look up things, I'm just going from memory.

[razorbackmama]

I wonder if Recipe for Reading, combined with http://eps.schoolspecialty.com/pd/og.cfm might be a good idea.....

[Mandamom]

I am OG/Wilson trained and my suggestion is to go with something like Barton because everything is laid out for you and it matches what an OG program should look like. I have not used the program but I looked at the Scope and Sequence and it looks pretty good.

 

Whichever program you choose to use make sure that your child masters the sounds taught before moving ahead. If your child is still struggling with the short sound and you introduce long sounds too soon, your child will continue to struggle and possibly start guessing which is a very difficult habit to break. I have had to sit on the short (closed) sound for months even with 10 year olds because it took them a very long time to consistently be able to hear and use the sound appropriately.

[LizzyBee]

I am partial to Barton because it is scripted and very easy to use. All the training you need is included on DVDs. Each module has a good resale value, so you can them to help pay for the next module.

[razorbackmama]

 

Each module has a good resale value, so you can them to help pay for the next module.

I have multiple kids I'd need to use it with, so I'll probably have to buy them all at some point.:glare:

[VinNY]

Hello, I am using Recipe for Reading along with LIPS , I See Sam Readers and Apples and Pears Spelling Book A. My dtr is currently receiving VT...but I am finding our reading program progressing nicely this year. She is 9 and in October was at a 1st grade reading level. I found working through LIPS over the summer helped her tremendously with discriminating consonant and vowels sounds. We are now on Ch 14 working with their tiles for spelling (we are on vowel expectancies). I started with Recipe for Reading in the fall, from the beginning but quickly due to all the work we did with LIPS. The dictation exercises are wonderful and the rules are clear as well as the auditory and kinesthetic clues given. I also like the A & P spelling program and I See SAm readers. I guess you could say I am using a staggered approach..the readers keep her ahead of the rules and spelling. LIPS introduces the rules for me, the spelling book gives her more review and the exercises from the R for R manual acts as my safety net, a review of sorts because of her poor memory. Now this doesn't take as long as it looks. It takes 5 minutes to run through the phonogram cards (I use the ones I have from WRTR). Then I do half a lesson from the spelling book. Next we read from the controlled reader (I see SAM). I follow up with the next page from the RR Manual (we just moved into syllabication so we are taking our time)..I use a composition book for her dictations and spelling lists as well as the white board for the RR work. 3-4 days a week we work on spelling chains from LIPS and review the rules we have learned . We are also finishing up Abeka 1 Language Arts.

 

Did your dtr pass the Barton screening test? Mine didn't so we had to do LIPS first (why I bought the kit). My dtr needs VT so with that expense now, I am happy that LIPS and RR are working well. I plan on plodding through both manuals over the next 2 years with my dtr.

[razorbackmama]

Thanks so much!

 

I haven't administered the Barton screening test, but I'd be SHOCKED if she didn't pass it. She did quite well on phonemic awareness on her testing. The tester/tutor said that she'd be able to do Level 1 of Barton and then skip to Level 3 quite easily.

[VinNY]

I was able to interlibrary loan Recipe for Reading Manual before I decided to buy it. Worth taking a look at even if using Barton.

[Julie of KY]

I'm very please with Barton.

 

I would caution you to not lightly skip over a level like level 2. If your child has already been exposed to OG teachin then she may be able to start at a higher leve.l. I'd call and talk to Susan Barton and I think she'll provide the post-test to see if your child can start at a higher level. Whatever level you start on, don't skip any more levels.

[razorbackmama]

I was able to interlibrary loan Recipe for Reading Manual before I decided to buy it. Worth taking a look at even if using Barton.

 

I tried that, but I think my library's copy is ancient. I couldn't make heads or tails of it! I will look to see if they have a more recent copy.

 

I'm very please with Barton.

 

I would caution you to not lightly skip over a level like level 2. If your child has already been exposed to OG teachin then she may be able to start at a higher leve.l. I'd call and talk to Susan Barton and I think she'll provide the post-test to see if your child can start at a higher level. Whatever level you start on, don't skip any more levels.

 

Yes, the tutor said that Level 2 would be the only one that she could skip.

 

I wonder if Recipe for Reading might give some input/guidance into when I might be able to jump around from level to level, like the tutor mentioned?:confused:

[razorbackmama]

I tried that, but I think my library's copy is ancient. I couldn't make heads or tails of it! I will look to see if they have a more recent copy.

 

Yikes, their only copy is from 1977!:001_huh: That would explain it!:lol:

[LizzyBee]

I wonder if Recipe for Reading might give some input/guidance into when I might be able to jump around from level to level, like the tutor mentioned?:confused:

 

Susan Barton is certified in something like 8 different OG programs and has tutored A LOT of kids and adults. She has good reasons for designing her own program the way she did. I would be hesitant to jump around.

[razorbackmama]

Susan Barton is certified in something like 8 different OG programs and has tutored A LOT of kids and adults. She has good reasons for designing her own program the way she did. I would be hesitant to jump around.

Very true. This lady really doesn't like how late silent e is taught. But I guess in the grand scheme of things, that's not a huge deal.:001_smile:

[siloam]

Thanks so much!

 

I haven't administered the Barton screening test, but I'd be SHOCKED if she didn't pass it. She did quite well on phonemic awareness on her testing. The tester/tutor said that she'd be able to do Level 1 of Barton and then skip to Level 3 quite easily.

Hmmm, you see I could see skipping level 1 and going straight to level 2, but if the child has any b/d/p confusion or m/n confusion and confusion with their vowels, level 2 is the level that lays that foundation of how to deal with those. Maybe they do cover them in level 2 as well? I have level 2 in house I just haven't sat down and watched the videos. Anyway, Susan will send you the end tests to see if your child can test out of them, just e-mail and ask for the first one.

 

The two most popular programs are Barton and Wilson. The difference between those two, far as I can tell, is that Barton has the more detailed videos and does go into more depth at times. Wilson also follows a more traditional sequence while Barton level 4 can be a pain in the neck (schwa sounds) but silent e is covered in level 6.

 

Personally part of the reason why I am not using Barton is because of the sequence. I own a ton of reader all based on a traditional sequence. The other reason was because DS just wasn't ready for the pace it set. He needed more work on letter to sound recall because if he can't remember a sound it doesn't matter how much I try to make it not a big deal, how much I try to make it my fault not his, he doesn't buy it and is completely frustrated.

 

I am using the old SL 2002 LA K that introduces one letter a week, but am taking ideas from the multiple o/g programs I have dealt with (Seeing Stars, Barton, LiPS, SWR and AAS) and blending the best of each into my own program. It is working, for now. The long term will really prove if it was the best choice or not.

 

If the sequence of Barton is a problem, then I would suggest you look at getting Wilson Reading with the video set they sell.

 

Heather

[razorbackmama]

Hmmm, you see I could see skipping level 1 and going straight to level 2, but if the child has any b/d/p confusion or m/n confusion and confusion with their vowels, level 2 is the level that lays that foundation of how to deal with those. Maybe they do cover them in level 2 as well? I have level 2 in house I just haven't sat down and watched the videos. Anyway, Susan will send you the end tests to see if your child can test out of them, just e-mail and ask for the first one.

 

I have no idea...just going with what the tutor/tester lady said.:lol: I'd probably go ahead and do it all rather than skip, just because I'm that sort of person.:lol:

 

The two most popular programs are Barton and Wilson. The difference between those two, far as I can tell, is that Barton has the more detailed videos and does go into more depth at times. Wilson also follows a more traditional sequence while Barton level 4 can be a pain in the neck (schwa sounds) but silent e is covered in level 6.

 

Personally part of the reason why I am not using Barton is because of the sequence. I own a ton of reader all based on a traditional sequence. The other reason was because DS just wasn't ready for the pace it set. He needed more work on letter to sound recall because if he can't remember a sound it doesn't matter how much I try to make it not a big deal, how much I try to make it my fault not his, he doesn't buy it and is completely frustrated.

 

I am using the old SL 2002 LA K that introduces one letter a week, but am taking ideas from the multiple o/g programs I have dealt with (Seeing Stars, Barton, LiPS, SWR and AAS) and blending the best of each into my own program. It is working, for now. The long term will really prove if it was the best choice or not.

 

If the sequence of Barton is a problem, then I would suggest you look at getting Wilson Reading with the video set they sell.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I did see on the Barton website that they don't want the child to read anything other than the books that would be decodable up to that point. That REALLY puts a crimp in things because dd loves to read. I'd certainly do it, but if there is an equally good program that has a more traditional sequence, I'd definitely look into it.

[Renee in NC]

The tutor halfway recommended the Gillingham Manual. She said the first part is written by Ph.D.s and people who are experts, and they really didn't write it in a way that's easy to understand. So she said that even she (who has a masters in education and does all this tutoring and stuff for a living) found the first part of the book EXTREMELY confusing. But she said the last part is pretty helpful. So I'm iffy about buying it....

 

Sorry for all the questions....

 

I have the Gillingham Manual and I really like it, but there is *no* handholding. You have to do all the work yourself. The good thing about it is that you don't have to stick to someone else's sequence and it covers so much information.

 

I am still on the fence about Barton, but if I *do* buy a program to work with my 9yo, it will be Barton.

[razorbackmama]

So for Wilson - are these the DVDs that y'all are talking about? http://www.wilsonlanguage.com/store/item.aspx?id=09358830-d35b-dc11-be3c-0003ff30d5ff

 

The description says they don't replace the workshops, so I wasn't sure.:confused:

 

Also, if that is the case, would the DVDs help me get going with Wilson until a workshop opens up? They say on their site that workshops are only available April-October. They don't even have any listed right now. I can't wait that long.

[VinNY]

In Recipe for Reading, silent e (they call it magic e) is not introduced until page 100 (half way through the book). Maybe others who have done Barton can compare this O-G program and as well LIPS, and tell you if this is considered delayed in teaching silent e. Here is RR's sequence chart:

c (cat)

o (octopus)

a(apple)

d (dog)

g (go)

m,

l,

h,

t

..reviewing cvc words,

(below should also be listed vertically..but to save space I am putting them in a line)

i(igloo),j,k,p,ch,u (umbrella), b,r,f,n,e (elephant),s,sh,th,w,wh,y,v,x,z,th ((thumb)..review consonant digraphs,

qu

review CVC words,

Two-syllable compound words

Spelling rule ff-ll-ss-zz

Detached syllables

Review test-detached syllables

Syllabication-method

Initial consonant blends

Final comsonant blends

Review (of blends)

Multisyllabic words with blends

ng and nk endings

Suffix ed

Magic e (i-e, o-e, u-e, a-e, e-e)

Review tests magic e

Open and closed syllables

 

ok that gets you to page 108..let me know if u want the rest of the order.

 

LIPS doesn't address long vowels and vowel expectancies (oa, ai, ea) until Ch 14. We spent months with vowel discrimination..how your mouth moves etc.

 

 

Now my dtr understands silent e and through I See Sam readers and BOB books can read them ..but she still struggles with spelling and reading long vowel words individually on the white board. I am hoping working through LIPS and RR remediates this. I used WRTR for years with my older 5 children so RR and LIPS hasn't been too hard to use. But I really love the APPles and Pears speller. Now that really helps with auditory discrimination and building up sight words. Brilliant !

[merry gardens]

Very true. This lady really doesn't like how late silent e is taught. But I guess in the grand scheme of things, that's not a huge deal.:001_smile:

It might be a huge deal, but it might be a huge deal on the positive side for some people. :) I've come to like the fact that Barton teaches the silent e late. At first, I thought the delay was weird at too.

 

My son confused several vowel sounds, and focussing for such a long time on the short sounds helped my son with his vowel confusion. I was surprised the extent of his vowel confussion and how long he continued to confuse a couple of sounds. Beyond the issue of vowel confusion, silent e requires readers to look at the back of the word before they say all the other letter sounds. I suspect that delaying that right to left eye movement involved in silent e may help re-inforce left to right eye movement that reading primarily uses.

 

Most people don't start with Barton or O-G methods. It's not like my son or most of the Barton users have never heard of silent e. It is usually taught much earlier as your tutor/screening lady notes. My son has heard a lot about silent e--just not with Barton. He does okay with reading silent e words, even though we haven't covered them yet with Barton. Delaying the silent e helped focus on areas that were bigger problems for my son.

 

We did part of LiPS before Barton, because he failed the Barton screen. LiPS isn't a O-G program, but it is another strong program that's well studied and documented for problem readers. The order for silent e depends on the pathway one takes with LiPS, as you can go through all the consonents first or mix in vowels with consonants. Once they teach vowels, (around page 100 in an older manual) they teach all the vowel sounds within a short time. They call it "signal e" (around page 120.) That's working with sounds and symbols. There is some overlap and similarity between the later part of LiPS and Barton. We stopped LiPS when my son got to the point where we could start Barton.

Edited January 11, 2011 by merry gardens

[Dobela]

EPS also has the older version of the Scottish Rite program. My son learned to read using that program and I can't recommend it enough. If you have a Scottish Rite clinic near you, they can eval your child for free and will give you the current program for free after the eval. The EPS version has dated clothing but the lessons are excellent.

[razorbackmama]

It might be a huge deal, but it might be a huge deal on the positive side for some people. :) I've come to like the fact that Barton teaches the silent e late. At first, I thought the delay was weird at too.

 

My son confused several vowel sounds, and focussing for such a long time on the short sounds helped my son with his vowel confusion. I was surprised the extent of his vowel confussion and how long he continued to confuse a couple of sounds. Beyond the issue of vowel confusion, silent e requires readers to look at the back of the word before they say all the other letter sounds. I suspect that delaying that right to left eye movement involved in silent e may help re-inforce left to right eye movement that reading primarily uses.

 

 

Ah, that makes TOTAL sense. I know that's one thing that really messed up my 8yo when he was learning to read. That and the concept of word families. BJU taught him to look at the end of the word first (so he could know what word family it was in). That probably wouldn't mess up a non-dyslexic, but yikes, it was AWFUL for him!!! And yes, silent e words still mess him up, now that I've FINALLY gotten him to start reading from left to right!

 

Thanks!

[*~Tina~*]

So for Wilson - are these the DVDs that y'all are talking about? http://www.wilsonlanguage.com/store/item.aspx?id=09358830-d35b-dc11-be3c-0003ff30d5ff

 

The description says they don't replace the workshops, so I wasn't sure.:confused:

 

Also, if that is the case, would the DVDs help me get going with Wilson until a workshop opens up? They say on their site that workshops are only available April-October. They don't even have any listed right now. I can't wait that long.

 

The DVD's and the Teacher's Manual would get you well on your way with Wilson. Of course, they'd like you to attend their very expensive workshop, and I'm sure you'd learn a bit from it, but the DVD's themselves are in essence a workshop that offers a solid overview of the program. ;)

 

I took my dd all the way through Wilson and thought it was a great program. It does not cover some of the higher level concepts you will find in Barton's last couple levels, but nevertheless, it's much less expensive and sufficient for the task!

 

You can find plenty more info on Wilson if you search the archives and files in the Heart of Reading yahoo group.

 

I think THE most important thing is to pick a program and stick with it. Teaching the dyslexic student is a slow going process, and it's easy to get discouraged and want to move on to the "next" program. . .however, consistency and dedication is where you'll get the payoff and results!

[siloam]

So for Wilson - are these the DVDs that y'all are talking about? http://www.wilsonlanguage.com/store/item.aspx?id=09358830-d35b-dc11-be3c-0003ff30d5ff

 

The description says they don't replace the workshops, so I wasn't sure.:confused:

 

Also, if that is the case, would the DVDs help me get going with Wilson until a workshop opens up? They say on their site that workshops are only available April-October. They don't even have any listed right now. I can't wait that long.

 

Kirstin,

 

Are you on the Heart of Reading yahoo group? The owner, Tina, moved from Barton to Wilson. Here is a post she did comparing the two. I have never heard her say you need the workshops to use Wilson.

 

But yes, those are the videos you would want.

 

There are a couple of people on the above group who have had really good experiences with Sonday System. The customer service is supposed to be excellent. Barton also has a good reputation for customer service, but Wilson is written for schools. They don't have a support system for homeschool teachers.

 

Heather

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, Heather. I just joined yesterday. Haven't had a chance to even look at anything over there.

 

Hm...never heard of Sonday - I'll check it out!

[Mandamom]

It might be a huge deal, but it might be a huge deal on the positive side for some people. :) I've come to like the fact that Barton teaches the silent e late. At first, I thought the delay was weird at too.

 

My son confused several vowel sounds, and focussing for such a long time on the short sounds helped my son with his vowel confusion. I was surprised the extent of his vowel confussion and how long he continued to confuse a couple of sounds. Beyond the issue of vowel confusion, silent e requires readers to look at the back of the word before they say all the other letter sounds. I suspect that delaying that right to left eye movement involved in silent e may help re-inforce left to right eye movement that reading primarily uses.

 

Most people don't start with Barton or O-G methods. It's not like my son or most of the Barton users have never heard of silent e. It is usually taught much earlier as your tutor/screening lady notes. My son has heard a lot about silent e--just not with Barton. He does okay with reading silent e words, even though we haven't covered them yet with Barton. Delaying the silent e helped focus on areas that were bigger problems for my son.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: completely. This is exactly why I delay teaching the rules for long vowel sounds. Kids are are struggling are frequently trying to keep the rules for short vowels straight and when the long sound ( or variant sounds) are introduced too early I end up spending more time on remediating, which ends up taking longer.

 

BY TINA: >>>>I think THE most important thing is to pick a program and stick with it. Teaching the dyslexic student is a slow going process, and it's easy to get discouraged and want to move on to the "next" program. . .however, consistency and dedication is where you'll get the payoff and results!>>>>>

 

Exactly. Also, don't start moving to the next thing before your child is ready. Make sure they really have mastered, consistently, the rule and sounds they are supposed to be learning. Use the program to help your son, don't force your child through the program just because it is the next thing.

 

 

Good luck finding the right program for you.