JadeOrchidSong Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Justice for whom? -The legal citizens who can no longer go to an ER that was shut down due to nonpayment, mostly because of nonpayment by illegal immigrants/aliens? -The legal citizen caught up the murder, kidnappings or drug trade that have exploded right along with the illegal population? -The legal citizen whose child can't get an education in the public school because the teacher spends all day trying to 'catch up' the non-English speaking children of illegals? -The children who have to attend school inside a BARBED WIRE FENCE and whose teacher carries a sidearm because there have been so many burglaries/hostage situations in their school because it happens to be on a common path of illegals from Mexico to the US? -The ranchers who unfortunately have property close to the Mexican border, who have been forced to become vigilantes since the US Marshall is literally afraid to protect them? I personally know several parents who visited their children who worked here legally in the US (or PR or naturalized citizens) and didn't buy medical insurance and refused to pay the medical bills they incurred due to ER visits for heart or other serious illnesses even when their children had money to buy huge houses. I HATE the fact that the tax paying people here have to absorb the huge cost they incurred because they or their well educated and wealthy children who invited them to visit chose not to buy medical insurance for the half year or one whole year their parents who already had heart problem before they came to visit. The parents themselves retired and have pensions and savings in their home country. Edited January 9, 2011 by aomom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I disagree-you have a solution. You want the US to make a value judgment about who are the most deserving or just simply open our borders to everyone and then give them a home, food, education and medical care. Their status as employed, tax paying members of society is irrelevant. No matter how hard I work the money I earn should be given to them for their support because it is nice and they are needful rather than my using it to pay for my own family. We should have less so they can have more. Basically the US should stop being a nation and turn into one giant commune based on love and generosity. How long do you think that would last until we faced economic ruin? How long would that last until we were so weak that we would be overrun by the very same dictatorial governments some of these folks are trying to escape from? Kindness, generosity and understanding are admirable. Assuming that everyone hates, devalues, and considers immigrants evil is ridiculous. Asking that those who wish to live in a given country do so legally is perfectly reasonable. As someone who is busting her butt and paying boatloads of money and jumping through every hoop possible to LEGALLY emigrate her daughter...a child legally adopted by two U.S. citizens... to the U.S. I just have to say :iagree: Man, at times like this I really miss giving rep. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom0012 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I don't think it's right. It may be the best of the moral choices available to them, however--sometimes one chooses the lesser of evils. I know dozens of illegal aliens and all of them would have chosen to come legally if they could. (That doesn't mean there are not criminal ones--there certainly are.) They all work extremely hard and interestingly, we let them pay taxes and they do. (You can get a tax identification number if you are illegal) Yes, but what is the answer here? Do we just allow everyone from Mexico who wants to enter the United States to enter? What do you think that will do to our country? Is that really something that anyone can see as feasible? I have read statistics that even with the current immigration laws 40% of the population in the US will be Hispanic by 2050. Lisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 As someone who is busting her butt and paying boatloads of money and jumping through every hoop possible to LEGALLY emigrate her daughter...a child legally adopted by two U.S. citizens... to the U.S. I just have to say :iagree: Man, at times like this I really miss giving rep. :D Thank you. I wish you the best of luck in this, I know it is sometimes a long and difficult road. Hang in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I am a LEGAL immigrant. I waited to get into this nation, I left "Hell on Earth" to come here, I thought pqr lived in Europe and hadn't lived in the US for 10+ years. Hmm. Puzzling quagmire riddle, more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I thought pqr lived in Europe and hadn't lived in the US for 10+ years. Which has no impact on the depth of love I bear the US, or how frequently I return, or frankly the debate about criminals who break our laws and cross our borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Which has no impact on the depth of love I bear the US, or how frequently I return, or frankly the debate about criminals who break our laws and cross our borders. Of course not! We just want to know more about you. C'mon, link to a blog with family photos! Post your curricula used! Tell us what you think about Russian math! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 You do understand that few of the people who try to go through proper channels are actually let into the country, right? And it takes years. That doesn't solve the dying children problem. Often going through proper channels is not a third option. It is truly sometimes a question of follow the law or let your kids die. Option A: escape your country illegally Option B: let your kids die Also, how do you expect people who can't read or write and have no money to even have the slightest clue about "proper channels" and how to navigate them? I blame it all on the drug cartels. Those people are very, very scary. Those people are entering our country illegally, sure, but they are a totally different thing than an illegal immigrant coming out of desperation. I would love for our laws to be changed to let in people who would be a boon to our country. The people down here who work so hard for so little would we a wonderful addition to our country. *sigh* But people all want to focus on what drug-trade-illegals do. It's sad and there is no comparison between the two sets of people. But people don't care. They want to see only the most awful things and they want to apply it to everyone who comes here. The Mexico I see is mostly mountain desert. What are all these resources you talk about? No one ever said the US should save the world. I'm asking for compassion for those who come to the US to escape horrible conditions. The Statue of Liberty no longer applies to America "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" How do you feel about those who can't come here legally ( and I do mean can't) and also have no options for survival in their own country? What you *are* saying to the individuals is it's better that they die than come here. Like it or not, that is the reality that some flesh and blood people on this earth face today. Quote me where I've mentioned blanket amnesty. :) You won't find it. You *can* quote me where I do mention that a country has limited resources though. :) So why are you trying to convince me of that? Quote me where I said there shouldn't be an legal basis for immigration. :) You can't. Quote me where I said that anyone arguing for legal immigration is cruel or unfeeling. You can't. You *can* quote me where I say I'm looking for compassion. If you read anything beyond that I worry about your reading comprehension skills. :) What compassion do you argue for? The quotes above, particularly the bolded parts are basically a call for either a) a reformation of the immigration system that is very generous about who is allowed to enter the US legally or b) a call for open borders and amnesty. Those are the 2 options your posts leave me thinking you are supporting. There is no other solution that would provide the "compassion" you seem to desire. You say quite plainly that as things stand today people have a choice between illegally entering the US and death. That is one of the loudest calls for open borders that I have ever heard. While you have not used the term "blanket amnesty" in your posts, their tone and content is quite enough to realize that such a policy is the only solution you see to the problem. My reading comprehension skills are quite up to par, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Of course not! We just want to know more about you. C'mon, link to a blog with family photos! Post your curricula used! Tell us what you think about Russian math! Not everyone blogs nor puts family photos on the world wide net. As to Russian math, it appears (from experience) that the system used in much of the Former Soviet Union produces students with more skills than we do. Of course that is also true of Singapore math (from experience) I know that many in SE Asia are also advanced of the US. We however use neither. Our curricula is developed primarily by my wife, I offer advice and assistance and teach as necessary but it is somewhat disingenuous to make comment as my wife is the brains behind that decision and I am relegated to the role of assistant and primary wage earner. As to the impact of illegal immigration, I have seen it in the US, in France, in Asia, in much of Europe and nowhere has ILLEGAL immigration offered the host nation a boon. In EVERY case there has been a rise in crime, a rise in cost to the host nation. Anyone who denies that ILLEGALs are a major factor behind crime waves (in areas where they exist in numbers) is simply deluding themselves. It is a "willing suspension of disbelief" to argue otherwise. Excuses may be made, arguments about the "preponderance" of ILLEGALS being law abiding (other than the fact that they broke the law in crossing the border, that they break the law in either not paying taxes or in using false ID, that they DO impact crime, that they DO impose cost on the government etc) may be used but it is delusion and people, if they are honest with themselves, know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Not everyone blogs nor puts family photos on the world wide net. I certainly don't. (Shudder.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I think we could solve a significant part of the difficulties with people entering the US illegally by making it much easier for people to get visas of all types. Most people in the world actually don't want to come to the US at all, and many of those who do aren't necessarily looking to live here the rest of their lives. Instead they might want to go to school, visit friends or relatives, go to a conference, see Yellowstone, work for a few years, and so many other reasonable things. But when the US charges $130 for any type of visa and can and does deny them for any reason with no explanation, it often makes it difficult for people to even come here short-term for completely legitimate reasons. I'd also love to see at least the DREAM Act passed, if not a significant overhaul of the immigration system. It is outdated, and unfortunately is it much easier to enter the US if you were born in an "acceptable" part of the world. And that's my biggest peeve with the entire argument. One's citizenship is entirely based on where you happened to be born, and there's literally nothing you can do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 It is odd that this group wants to end "all immigration". Um, hello, when we landed here were we not interlopers? This land already HAD inhabitants! WE were the "Illegal Aliens", but now some people from our group wants to act like WE are sovereign?!Unbelievable! America has ALWAYS had an illegal immigration problem. Native Americans call it White People! :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: My thoughts exact-o-mundo (as dh would say). This is what and even my very Republican friend have been saying for years and years ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negin Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) But could we guess? Pretty Quiet Russian? Persian Quiet Reader? Perfect Qatar-an Runner? :) :lol: :lol: :lol: No, no, no, don't let him be a "Persian Quiet Reader" - that's what I am - Persian and love to read, quiet maybe not :lol:. Edited January 9, 2011 by Moderator Removed derogatory remark about another member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I agree with everything you wrote, but I'm also a hard realist. We simply cannot save everyone. It's unfortunate, but it's the truth. :( :iagree:We simply cannot let everyone who desires to live here to live here:( I am concerned that illegal immigration is a drain on our society. I do have sympathy since if I were in their shoes I would probably try to get here as well. I think we need to secure our borders and expel anyone here illegally who commits a crime. I want to see a wall on the southern border with security. I do think it is unrealistic to expel all illegal immigrants. I do think if a child is born to illegal immigrants that automatic citizenship should not be granted IMHO. I do think the US should evaluate any policies we have that may hurt Latin American countries. For example, I have read that NAFTA not only hurts us but may have hurt the countries to the south:(. I think the drug war is a failure and IMHO drugs should be decriminalized so that the money saved could be put to better use. Don't get me wrong I am against drugs but the drug war does not work and may fuel violence and crime IMHO. I do want English to be the official language in America. I do not think government brochures/info should be offered in Spanish. Everyone else who comes here learns English and so should they IMHO. OTOH I do think our schools should offer a variety of languages starting in Kindergarten to encourage bilingualism. I do not think Spanish should be a required language though. English should be required IMHO. I will encourage ds to learn Spanish as an option and as one of several languages to study. MY 2 cents:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Seriously?! I'm not interested in a back-and-forth about how white people were correct in their use of force to 'take' a country that was not theirs to begin with. It's not about laws, it's about what is right. I don't believe that it was right to trample a people to make a land 'your own'. It's okay if we disagree on that, but that is MY opinion, not saying it has to be yours. I agree that we did take the land from Native Americans but that is done:(. OTOH all other countries do have immigration laws and secure their borders. I think it would be great if we could allow everyone to come here but that is not feasible IMHO. If we open the floodgates, we will become a third world nation IMHO. Of course, I think the American lifestyle is unsustainable and that a smaller footprint would be better. I do think the middle class is already at risk in this country:(. My 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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