dsmama Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I pulled my daughter out of school half-way through last year (first grade) and discovered she was woefully behind in math. We spent the rest of last year trying to catch up with basic concepts. I used Singapore 1A, but at some point it got too much, too quickly, for her. So this fall I decided to do Saxon 2, since many of my local friends use it. DD does OK with it, though she says she doesn't like any math. But Saxon drives me BONKERS. The meeting time and script seem SOOO long, and then the concepts seem all over the place -- temperature one day and subtraction the next. And then only a few problems to work on each concept. I'm wondering about whether I should just grit my teeth and keep going, or try something else to make it through the year? If I switched, it would probably be to Math Mammoth, since that is solid and inexpensive, or go back to Singapore and just spend more time on each concept. Does anyone else not like the all-over-the-place nature of Saxon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeegal Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I love Saxon... but if it's not working for you, it's not working for you. Personally, I draw the line with a curriculum when it's driving ME batty. ;) IMHO Mammoth Math and Singapore seem very similar in regard to the amount of time spent per topic. You might need to plan to spend more time on each topic regardless of which one you use. Also, I prefer Singapore's workbooks to Mammoth Math's workbooks because the font and problems are bigger. There didn't seem to be enough space for my younger children to write when we used Mammoth Math. Have you looked at Math-U-See? They also cover one topic at a time, but move at a slower rate than Singapore and Mammoth Math. I believe Rod and Staff math also works on one topic at a time. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*~Tina~* Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I pulled my daughter out of school half-way through last year (first grade) and discovered she was woefully behind in math. She seems a bit young to be woefully behind in math. What are you seeing that is concerning you? I currently use Saxon 3 with my 2nd grader. I started Saxon 2 last year, but decided to drop it and wait because I knew it'd all be repeated in Saxon 3. :tongue_smilie: So instead we spent time focusing on the basics of addition and subtraction, and other useful math concepts around the house. Using resources like Ruth Beechick's books and Family Math. I think Saxon has a good spiral approach, as well as a good amount of repetition for students that need extra help, but I agree it can be very tedious for Mom ;) I am selective in the amount of review we do and will often combine a couple lessons focusing on the actual new lesson concepts being presented, while also reinforcing anything she might need extra work in. This probably doesn't help you, but if you could share your specific concerns with her math development that would help mainstream the advice you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 When we did Saxon K, I felt the same way. But after using Saxon for awhile now, I've really realized how many times you spiral around back to a topic. (And I know it's not spiral, it's considered incremental, but that's the best word I could come up with!) We're in Saxon 2 right now, also. I am used to Saxon's progression and know that even if we don't grasp something 100%, it will get hit again. We also don't do the meeting time, unless it's a topic that I want to review. (i.e. - the other day we did some of the skip counting) As for the lesson, I kind of read it and get what they want me to teach and then paraphrase. Every once in awhile, I am thankful that I have an exact word for word script to use. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Have you seen Horizons Math? You can see samples of the workbook pages at the AOP website. http://www.aophomeschooling.com/horizons/overview.php# We use and like Saxon, but I agree the time involved can be overwhelming. There are days when we completely skip the meeting and just do the lesson. Hope you find something you both like soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmama Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks for all of your replies! Regarding DD's math -- when I pulled her out, she seemed to know next to nothing. Basic addition was beyond her -- yet she was reading very well, and so I know she was learning something at school, just for whatever reason math did not "click." We spent a lot of time with addition, trying to get beyond counting fingers (though she is still there a year later). Subtraction is still a struggle, and today's lesson on more vs fewer was a struggle (Matt has four cars and Dan has two -- how many more does Matt have?). If I put it right in front of her -- four blocks and two blocks -- she can get it. If there are four blocks and two blocks drawn on the paper, she is not making that leap yet. I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions. I'm still not sure what to do, but I will look into other options that may be more visual and hands-on. For now, I decided to take a break from Saxon for a week or so just for my sake, and we're doing other things like time, money, etc., through games and other hands-on things. Thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Saxon drove me insane, and I wasn't even the one teaching it (private school). We use Math Mammoth now and love it (just used scratch paper for the number words that my first grader definitely can't fit in those spaces... He's been fine with the numeral spaces), but for your DD, I'd recommend looking at Rightstart. Or if you used MM, let her use manipulatives all she wants. It sounds like RS would probably be a better fit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anneofalamo Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) We burned Saxon and danced with glee around the barrel! Edited January 7, 2011 by anneofalamo spelled barrel with 2 l's and felt inadequate had to edit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheryl in SoCal Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 We burned Saxon and danced with glee around the barrel! :lol::lol: My kids wanted to burn Saxon but I would only let them throw it in the trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnaM Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Maybe you need to use a mastery approach to math? Something like Math U see rather than spiral like Saxon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmama Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 OK, after looking at Right Start, it is definitely hands on. I think my 4-yo would like it, too, as she's into songs and fingerplays. But wow, that would be a big shift. Maybe that's what we need? Off to read reviews of RS. Thanks again! Gwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2J112903 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 We burned Saxon and danced with glee around the barrel! This is how J and I felt when we stopped Saxon. Maybe you need to use a mastery approach to math? Something like Math U see rather than spiral like Saxon? We use MUS now. I looked at RS but chose MSU-and we love it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 We love CLE for math. It is also quite cheap, plus you can purchase just one LU to see if it works for you. We've tried just about every math curriculum, but CLE hands-down works the best for my children (and me). Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmama Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Thanks for that perspective. On thinking about it, it may be easier to switch to something like MUS than a total shift like RS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Be sure & really read the reviews of MUS first though, weighing the pros and cons (homeschool reviews, or search here for past threads, etc). It is a good curriculum, but like Saxon, it's also a costly mistake if it's a bad fit. Believe me, I know;) Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Does anyone else not like the all-over-the-place nature of Saxon? As far as I know, that's the nature of spiral programs (seriously, the table of contents of dd's Saxon book made me dizzy). I'd definitely look at mastery ones instead - in particular, look at the tables of contents, in addition to the instruction itself. I'd start by making a list of the mastery programs - let's see - MUS, Right Start, Singapore, Math Mammoth, Abeka, etc. (I'm no expert on which are mastery - you may have to search the boards) FWIW, dd9 hated Saxon too (at school). We just started Math Mammoth last week - we like it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cheryl in SoCal Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 As far as I know, that's the nature of spiral programs. I'd definitely look at mastery ones instead - in particular, look at the tables of contents, in addition to the instruction itself. I'd start by making a list of the mastery programs - let's see - MUS, Right Start, Singapore, Math Mammoth, Abeka, etc. FWIW, dd9 hated Saxon too (at school). We just started Math Mammoth last week - we like it :) Saxon is a unique beast. It's incremental (not spiral), which is what makes it REALLY all over the place. I don't care for spiral either but don't loathe it like I do Saxon's incremental method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmama Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 I REALLY appreciate all of the input here. It seems that the mastery approach is more what I am looking for. Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm going to pull samples and read reviews of different programs you all listed for mastery learning. We'll see what might be a good fit for me and DD. Thank you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kgdaniels1 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We burned out on Saxon too. My 10yo LOVES math and is good at it, but started failing his daily practice excercises! If is made him re-do the work he would make A+ every time. he hates Saxon b/c the constant review bores him to death. This is not your problem, but I can see that although Saxon is a reputable math program, it is not for many people. I have started using right Start with my younger ones (K4 &K5) and I love it. It is conceptually based and although it does jump around a bit in the K5 book. You can spend all the time you want on a particular topic, it is very manipulatives and hands on focused. Right Start also focuses alot of importance of math games, which may be what your child may need to make some of the connections she's missed in school and with Saxon. Some kids just need to use their hands and make it into practical fun in order to get it. I think this is especially true when they are young. Right Start also focuses alot on teaching the child to think mathematically. This does not come naturally for everyone and it is good to teach children how to think about things to make math easier. Ex. grouping numbers, etc. I never learned that and suffered in math through school. My husband wasn't taught it either, but he naturally thinks that way and figured it out on his own and excelled in math. I understadn math better teaching my kids with Right Start and it is a kindergarten program. That is sad for me, but good for my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaissezFaire Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We burned Saxon and danced with glee around the barrel! Same here! And I am only sad we did not do it years sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phathui5 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I don't like Saxon for grades K-3. It's not as bad once you get to 4/5 because there isn't the horrible script anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3byzaz Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We never used Saxon - saw it and didn't like it. We used Horizons early on and it drove us nuts after a few years - very Saxon like to me. We tried a mastery - Modern curriculum Press - that was ok, but the kids would forget concepts from chapters a while ago. MUS was the same. CLE has been fabulous for us. We love the gentle spiral approach - review but not tooo much. It flows so well - is pretty independent. We have used a couple of other Math programs (scary, I know) and this is by far the BEST ever. My boys love it also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaHadley Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 we are using Saxon 1 right now, and honestly, I only teach when she hits something she doesn't know. I don't do the morning meeting stuff. Also, I don't spend time reading the script to teach something she knows, or picks up on basically instantly. When we hit something that she's not confident with, we go through it a bit more. I might change my tune when we hit higher level stuff, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 we are using Saxon 1 right now, and honestly, I only teach when she hits something she doesn't know. I don't do the morning meeting stuff. Also, I don't spend time reading the script to teach something she knows, or picks up on basically instantly. When we hit something that she's not confident with, we go through it a bit more. I might change my tune when we hit higher level stuff, though! We're using Saxon 2 and 5/4. I don't use the TM with Saxon 2... we just go through it and if she needs an explanation, I give it to her. We don't do the meetings, etc., and it takes her maybe 20 minutes a day to get through her math, doing side A of the worksheet and then whatever she needs more work on on side B. With ds and 5/4, he just goes to town with it! He reads the instructions, does the problems. If he struggles with something, we'll go through it together. He does every problem in the mixed practice in again about 20 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I like the 5/4 and up much better. Tweaking the script for the k-3 crowd is also a simple solution. I don't like Saxon for grades K-3. It's not as bad once you get to 4/5 because there isn't the horrible script anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Tweaking the script for the k-3 crowd is also a simple solution. The script wasn't the issue here. It was how S-L-O-W and incremental the actual problems were. Three months into Saxon 1, when they were doing a page full of addition and subtraction facts, they were still *also* doing "color 5 blocks red. How many blocks are not colored?", and the homework pages were often the same exact set of problems day after day after day. And those apple seeds... I was ready to kill someone if I saw another "count the apple seeds." problem. :lol: Now my son was in a private school when using Saxon 1, and technically he should have been in Saxon 2 at that point (at least), so that didn't help matters. It might have been a little better if he'd been placed in the right level. Unfortunately, the school was very small and the teacher didn't have Saxon 2 materials to give him. He's homeschooled now mostly because I want him working at his level, which we are slowly finding where exactly that is. My son is doing MEP 2A right now (alongside Math Mammoth 1B, soon to be 2A in a couple weeks), just doing a worksheet per day, and while it is spiral and also very easy for him (because it's early first grade and he's ready for more, but I'm getting him used to the types of problems and notation used in MEP), it's not the same exact set of problems every day, so he's not had any boredom issues with it. I think CLE also does a good job of making the spiral not be so boring (from the samples I've seen). So my big beef with Saxon (at least K and 1 levels, which is all I have seen) is the way the incremental spiral thing is done. And of course, I realize some kids need it that way, and for those kids, it's an awesome program. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 We love CLE for math. It is also quite cheap, plus you can purchase just one LU to see if it works for you. We've tried just about every math curriculum, but CLE hands-down works the best for my children (and me). Susan :iagree: We tried Horizons, then Saxon, and finally settled on CLE. It's a winner (and definitely does NOT drive us bonkers). ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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