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What foreign language programs are best for a dyslexic student?


rafiki
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Latin.

It is an extremely logical language, and helps later with vocab and the SAT.

QUOTE]

 

 

I second Latin for the same reasons cited above. I think the dyslexic student will get more value from it. I've known many non-dyslexic, honor students who spent years in Spanish - but still couldn't carry on a conversation in the language if their life depended on it. :001_huh:

 

Anywho, I've held off on a foreign language course for my dyslexic dd (although we've learned a few roots along the way), so that we could spend the much needed time solidifying and reinforcing her studies of our own English language ;) but we'll be doing Latin for 2 years in High School.

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ASL. A near inability to learn a foreign language (unless it's all oral) is a characteristic of dyslexia. So I plan to have my dyslexic dd learn ASL, and I'll count that on her transcripts as a foreign language (since it does fit the "foreign" language requirements). I'm not even going to bother with any sort of written language.

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I'm waitin' for the people suggesting latin to show me how far their kids got. We TRIED, doggone we tried. We did Prima Latina, LC1, part of LC2, and started LP1. She totally enjoys it. She GETS it. But the vocab goes in one eyeball and out the other, no matter HOW many years we use it, how many times in exercises, etc. I would have to beat it with a rubber mallet and pretend her life didn't matter to get the junk in. She has all the chants and declensions memorized she can conjugate and chant verbs. But when she tries to put it altogether, the mental strain is so much, it wears her out. So even if she CAN with effort, it's not WORTH it. It's not worth what it does to her.

 

Yes, I've thought of going Nan in Mass's way and doing a reading/oral approach to french. We have some stuff and I've dabbled with it. We were too busy with VT and had to put it aside. Maybe later. Truly, that is my only grand hope, and even then it would be a slipshod understanding of the language. I think Chinese would work exceptionally well for a dyslexic, because it is, out of many, a simple language. The tones shouldn't hinder them, and there's no grammar to speak of. So with Chinese, it is what it is, no transformations, no manipulations. Once you have it, you have it. And of course the visual speaks to some kids. So in the back of my mind I've wondered if we might pick it back up in high school as an option. She dabbled in it in elementary and enjoyed it.

 

ASL? Oh, that would be a good one, and it's something I'm pondering. If it weren't for that darned praxis I wouldn't even blink an eye at suggesting it. But once you get them unable to replicate hand motions that aren't explained, it doesn't go very well, kwim? LOL So I don't know if it would work for her. But for ds, yes. Will ds be dyslexic too? No clue. No bilateral issues so far, just the verbal apraxia. But that's a rabbit trail!

 

So there, I'll be brave and say we've done enough latin to know it wasn't going to work and called it quits. I WANT to do latin with her. I LOVE languages. You don't know how I LOVE languages. I love learning them, speaking them. Nuts, I just love talking! But this is a child for whom the words just don't stick. Or maybe it's just the severe contrast between my particular strength (my only strength, haha) and her definite weakness. I'd be groaning 8 times over because the word was stuck in my head, and she STILL wasn't going to know it by the next page, any more than she knows 8X7 right now, despite tons of practice.

 

So how's that for a principle? If you've gotten math facts to stick elegantly in your dc's head by some grace, then maybe too you'll be successful with a language. Maybe there's an age or stage where they would? But around here, we've tried. We've tried enough languages to know they don't work. Thank goodness the nice quiet Bible colleges I'm prepping her for don't care one bit.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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Of Spanish or French, I'd pick Spanish.

 

But I think that Latin is the way to go with a dyslexic kid. And be willing to be flexible about how you approach it. For example, my dyslexic kid has a very hard time going from English to Latin, but he does pretty well going from Latin to English. So we use a program that doesn't stress going from Latin to English (Cambridge).

Edited by EKS
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Oh yeah, add Cambridge Latin to the list of books we used. We've been around, lol. Going latin to english isn't the hard part, especially in a 1st level book. That's why I tried CL. That's why I hope a reading method for french might work with her. I even got LNM, hoping it would draw her in with interesting material. Maybe with some time and maturity it might? I'm just saying as the material gets HARDER, their ability to mask the difficulty decreases. I think, just watching her, it pulls from both sides of the brain and aggravates their bilaterality issues, but that's only my theory.

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"I" gave up on Foreign Language a long time ago.

 

He completed a year of Elementary Spanish (video based), did half of Spanish for Children, tried Prima Latina, and completed Greek Code Crackers. There is no retention.

 

I do feel Latin and Greek roots are important. We are MCT users. Last year Buidling Language went fine. This year Caesar's English was torcher. I had to modify it's use big time. Basically I read the initial definitions five at a time and made up matching cards. They do those until they can match the vocab word/stem up to it's meaning for a week, then they get mixed in with the previous words or stems and they match those up. It's the only thing that has worked, so we're sticking to it.

 

Anyway, I want him just to focus on English! ;)

 

However, HE has asked to learn a foreign language. How can I resist such a request? He wants to do it on his own, not as part of school and just asked my opinion on how. I'm trying to come up with some advice and suggestion.

 

And Elizabeth, did I tell you about the tests they gave my middle ds at the urgent care center when he hit his head on an ice mound sledding? He had a mild concussion and they were trying to get him to follow finger patterns. Hello? He couldn't do that without a concussion!

 

I agree, dyspraxia and ASL would not be a good combo.

 

So if your child begged you to learn a foreign language and you didn't want to see your money go out the window, what would you suggest he do to work toward that goal? Watch his favorite tv show in Spanish? :lol:

 

Michele, I don't think you're so far off, lol! Truly, what we say with a junior higher about us trying to teach them a language is different from what you expect from a self-motivated middle elementary student. I would look for what he's enjoying in this process, since he clearly is. He likes workbooks? He likes interacting with words? He likes things that are independent? I would continue to give him interactions that do these things. I say WORDS to contrast with grammar, if that makes sense.

 

Clearly a dyslexic can learn a language, since they have learned their own. But the things they struggle with in their own (spelling, grammar, etc.) are exaccerbated in the foreign, as they don't even have the advantage of the correct answer already in their head.

 

Are you sure RETENTION and PROGRESSION are the only measures of success for you in this? If he enjoys the process of learning, if he learns skills of independence, etc., is that enough of a gain? For this age, I think it's ok to rethink those goals. They don't have to be something as grand as being fluent by 10, lol.

 

Now, for what I'd really do? Well I haven't a stinkin' clue. I'd go spanish, since that's what he was interested in. Why did he only finish 1/2? Is that his language of choice right now? I would get him into something that very readily translates over to reading, since that's the only thing I can see to keep constant reinforcement. The Cambridge Latin the op mentioned is a reading course. Nan in Mass has had success using a reading approach. That's all I can think of that will work. We just don't have time for it now, but that's my plan of attack when we go at it again (groan). Find comics and magazines in his target language. Get him some shows. Get him a friend who speaks the language. I think that might go a lot further than grammar lessons at this point. I think the grammar and formality gets piled in an opposite side of the brain from actual use. Nuts, even college students have that problem. I took 4 years of Russian, did linguistics classes, etc., but when I actually got to Russia I was poorly prepared to SPEAK it! I think it's reasonable to ask him what his goal is. If he wants to talk with his buds, facilitate him talking with his buds, kwim?

 

Now my mind is drawing a blank, but there's a program that uses pictures and audio. I think that might work. You know, the more I think about it, the more I think that might work. The name will come to me or I can go check my stash. I have one of the things from long ago...

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Just curious why those who picked Latin over Spanish made that choice? I had originally thought I would do Latin with my son because he wouldn't have to speak it, but I'm currently leaning toward Spanish.

 

My plan of attack is to give him a gentle introduction to the language through La Clase Divertida (he loves this program) and then to use Pimsleur (since he is an excellent auditory learner). I like the idea of mostly sticking to auditory learning until 9th because the last thing I want to do is confuse him with his reading in English. I thought that maybe if he had La Clase and Pimsleur under his belt, it would ease his way into a standard Spanish course in 9th grade. I'd love to hear if this is a good plan or a foolish one if anyone has any ideas about it.

 

Lisa

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early elementary, I'd pick one modern language and stick with it.

 

My ds did two years of Latin (3rd & 4th), two years of Japanese (5th & 6th), and now is on his second year of Spanish (7th & 8th). If I could go back in time I would have chosed one modern language and taught it gently and continuously throughout those years.

 

I'd also focus only on vocabulary in the early years and not fuss too much with the grammar. My dyslexic kid has a really hard time retaining the vocab. Constanting drilling the vocab over a long period of time is the only way he retains.

 

Here's what I would have used in the early years:

 

For 3rd or 4th grade:

http://www.amazon.com/First-Words-Spanish-Audio-InSeries/dp/0071469257/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294591640&sr=1-2

 

 

For 4th/5th/6th:

http://www.amazon.com/Flash-Forward-Vocabulary-Living-Language/dp/1400006015/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294591679&sr=1-1

 

For 6th/7th

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Spanish-Homeschoolers-Self-Taught/dp/0979505135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294591727&sr=1-1

Edited by Stacy in NJ
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Just curious why those who picked Latin over Spanish made that choice?

 

I chose Latin because of the lack of a conversational element. Latin allows him more time to think. And if he can't retrieve a word, he can always look it up.

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I would pick Spanish, it is much more phonetically regular than French.

 

Beyond that, I don't know, but I would definitely pick something phonetically regular like Spanish or Latin.

Personally I have had 2 years of high school Spanish and one semester of college. I never did get the accent, despite the teacher having me work with a few of native kids at the school. Now I know the problem was one of auditory processing skills. I just couldn't hear the fine differences in intonation, cadence and such. I can understand parts of conversation when I am around people speaking Spanish and I can do some light conversation with people, mostly hello and how are you.

 

Thus I chose Latin. I think ASL would be my other choice, if not Latin.

 

That said I do plan on having the kids do a couple of years of Spanish or something else before they graduate only because it is so prevalent around here, but they will have done 7 years of Latin by then. Maybe ASL would be the better choice. Sigh...

 

Heather

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My ds is 13, and we had previously tried German (because that is what I had experience with). No retention, except for the words that were somewhat familiar (i.e. cat, dog, some fo the months, weather, etc).

 

I gave up, and waited about 2 years, and did A LOT of research on languages for dyslexics. Latin came out on top for a few reasons. First, it's logical. Second, there are a TON of words that make sense to them even though technically foreign (nauta=sailor, agricola=farmer), so, it is easier to think through what the word means. Third - my son will never be able to learn as many complex words as he will need to do well on the SAT's - but he can learn root words and how connections are usually made - and be able to think through the complex vocab. Also - ds's focus is on the sciences, and Latin is awesome for that.

As for spelling - he can't spell at all anyway, and we got from Latin to English most of the time. He can read the Latin fine, and can translate verbally to me if need be.

Also - the rules for pronouncing the words make SO much more sense than English.

As for future success - I don't know.

I think we all need to remember that there are many reasons a person can have dyslexia - and what works for some may not work for others.

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I chose Latin because, as mentioned above, it's not conversational, and because the noun endings make it somewhat mathematical, and the noun endings visually demonstrate the grammar. Since math is a strength for dd (who is not dyslexic except under a very broad definition ;) but has language processing issues), I'm hoping that'll help.

 

As far as Latin vs. Spanish, I personally found college Spanish to be a breeze after high school Latin (as in, so easy that when I showed up for the in-class mid-term exam, without remembering that it was the day of the mid-term, I passed easily even though I didn't study. I guess I didn't study much at all for that class :001_huh:). So I'm hoping to get through a finite amount of Latin with dd and then add in Spanish. I'm chomping at the bit to add the Spanish (which was Dh's first language) but I want to get through at least the first half of Henle first. We just started Henle last week and it's very meaty. DD would never be able to do it if she hadn't been through GSWL, which we loved because it was so gentle, one word per lesson. I'm sure I'm going to end up breaking up the Latin lessons in slightly smaller chunks than the MODC syllabus I'm using does, but we'll take it one day at a time. Keeping my fingers crossed that Latin goes smoothly tomorrow. :)

 

A link you might appreciate:

http://www.camws.org/cpl/educators/LatinforLDbrochure.pdf

 

This one mentions something about a memory peg system (learning vocab through drawings, I think):

http://dyslexia.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/latin-as-the-secret-code-of-western-civilization/

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I just got back from getting my dd's diagnostic report. She has dyslexia and dysgraphia (though dysgraphia doesn't really play into the foreign language recommendations). Here is what her report says specifically (it was written so that we could get a 504 plan if we ever need one):

 

"Dyslexia is a language processing disorder. A student who is dyslexic in her native language will be dyslexic in a foreign language as well. For a student who is struggling so much with English, learning a foreign language is next to impossible.

 

 

  • While a student may pick up the verbal "street language," she will have extreme difficulty reading and writing a foreign language. Reading and writing instruction in a foreign language will compound the problems she is having mastering her native language.
  • Therefore, "dd" needs to be taught reading and spelling in one language only.
  • That means "dd" should be excused from the normal foreign language requirement.
  • One possible alternative is that many colleges will recognize the learning of American Sign Language as a fulfillment of their foreign language requirement. Since this is a visually based language, many dyslexic students can master this language."

 

Since your son is asking to learn a foreign language, I would focus on verbal language only. I might include the written part if he really wants it, but if it gets to be too confusing, I'd probably just leave it off. But he could probably learn a language at least verbally.:D

 

 


 

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The common wisdom in the USA regarding dyslexia and foreign language instruction is that such students should not be required to study a foreign language. In reality, in many other countries of the world where people routinely grow up with 2 or more languages, there are dyslexic students who learn a second language in spite of the obstacles. Yes, they will still be dyslexic in the second language, but they still manage to achieve some level of fluency in the second language. I personally believe that with our global economy and with the increasing number of people living in North America who speak a language other than English as their first language that failing to introduce our dyslexic students to another language and culture creates a tremendous hole in their cultural education.

 

In our family, it is not optional for our children to learn another modern language. The only questions are which one and to what extent? You can surmise from my user name that Japanese is our family's language of choice, mainly because of the 10+ years we spent in Tokyo.

 

My two daughters had the advantage of learning their second language from interacting with members of the Japanese-speaking community from a very young age. They then received their education during the elementary years in the Japanese public primary school. They grew up truly bilingual. My oldest is particularly gifted in language and she learned both languages easily. We did not understand my younger daughter's auditory and language processing issues until she was 9.5yrs old. She was already equally fluent in both Japanese & English and could read both languages. However, because of the language challenges, she had approximately a 1 year delay in her language development. At the time of her assessment, the ed. psych. discussed various educational options with us. Many bilingual families do choose one language over the other when they are confronted with learning challenges- especially if there are major cognitive challenges. In our case, because our daughter has strong intellectual gifts in certain areas (esp. visual/non-verbal processing), we chose not to drop Japanese language but to gradually shift the balance toward English, since we expected that dd would attend college in the USA.

 

Our son has been raised mostly in the USA, having arrived here at 5.5yo. He did not learn Japanese to any significant degree during his preschool years because he was severely delayed in his speech in English. He went to an English language preschool. However, he did absorb Japanese to some degree receptively because that was the language of the community. Since we've been here in the USA, we've had very little opportunity for exposure to Japanese language socially. Ds began learning Japanese as a second language when he was in 7th grade. Until this year, he attended a weekly class during the school year, supplemented by Rosetta Stone & and my own activities. This year, I am teaching him using a textbook curriculum but I have adapted his curriculum- and assessments- to work with the strengths & weaknesses identified in his neuropsych eval.

 

Dyslexic students come with different sets of strengths and weaknesses. Even my own two- in one family- are very different. What worked for my dd doesn't work for my son. Therefore, it's important to tailor any curriculum to work with the particular profile of a given student.

 

In general, here are some things I've found helpful:

 

1. Work with the natural flow of language development: oral receptive to oral expressive. Introduce reading only after there is a basic foundation of oral language. This is antithetical to most foreign language instruction in an academic setting. Oral language is always taught in America in a way that requires a person to read a textbook. Early language instruction doesn't have to happen that way, though.

 

2. When written language is introduced, focus on reading more heavily than writing at first. Again, build the receptive skill before the expressive skill. When writing is first introduced, focus on copywork rather than original expression.

 

3. Introduce concrete language first. Pair nouns and concrete verbs with the actual objects or visual representations of the object, rather than translating from English to the target language.

 

4. Focus on functional language- the stuff of basic daily interaction: set phrases, daily routines, etc.

 

5. Consider using a technique called Total Physical Response in teaching early language concepts. This requires the student to respond in a physical way to commands. It can also mean having the student shift his gaze to or point to an object to indicate understanding.

 

5. Don't worry about formal grammar in a detailed way until much later in the process: again, this is quite opposite to the way foreign language instruction is usually discussed on these boards, but it can be a lifesaver for dyslexic students.

 

6. Use repetition- and lots of it-but break it up into frequent, small chunks throughout the day. This helps to transfer the language into long term memory more effectively. Don't take long breaks from school without maintaining some language practice- ie, don't take a whole summer off from learning the second language.

 

7. Avoid using the medium of written language to evaluate a student's progress in the very beginning stages. Allow the student to do such things as point to a picture or perform an action to evaluate understanding. In all cases I use various forms of oral assessment as my preferred method of assessment.

 

8. Once the student has begun to read, I prefer "objective" questions such as matching & multiple choice at first to responses that require writing/spelling.

 

9. If the language uses a different script than the Roman alphabet, allow the student access to character charts at all times when he is doing written work. Japanese uses two different syllabic scripts plus Chinese characters in its writing system. Because letter formation in English has been very difficult for my son, I have reduced the working memory challenge during written work by allowing him to have access to the kana charts & a list of Kanji characters that he has been taught. He still must use the information correctly when he writes but allowing him to consult the charts means he doesn't have to call up the character formation from memory.

 

10. Start early, and move gently. Scaffold the experience as carefully as you can & at each turn, assess progress. As time goes on, it will become clear to what extent fluency- both oral and written- will be possible for any given student.

 

There is a document that Dyslexia Scotland has published for teachers of foreign languages that might be helpful to some who wish to pursue foreign language instruction in spite of dyslexia. Follow the link provided, then click on Secondary Pack, then on Subject Teacher's guides, and then on Dyslexia and Modern Foreign Languages. The last link will take you to a pdf document which gives ideas for working through various difficulties that dyslexic students may have with learning another language.

 

I don't have specific curriculum ideas for the original poster, but hopefully these hints will give you some idea as to how to evaluate potential learning resources for their usefulness for a dyslexic student.

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Maria, your logic seems quite good here! I'm having trouble finding the links at that site. Can you help a bit, maybe with a direct link or something? I just feel like a dolt. Either it's the teeny tiny font (almost unreadable, even on super-zoom on my computer) or they've moved things or something. I just couldn't find a link for Subjects.

 

Well what you're saying definitely makes a lot of sense. I continually think back to Gladys Aylward, who was told she was too DUMB to learn a foreign language and become a missionary, yet learn it she did. Methodology, drive, certainly more factors in here than sheer biology or neurology.

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Try this link. The reason I originally didn't link it directly is that it doesn't pop up as a unique URL when I click through from the main page. But I did some other maneuvers & finally got the actual URL for the pdf.

 

For those clicking through from the main page, click first on "Secondary Pack" at the top of the page. On the next page, click on "Subject Teachers' Guides" toward the bottom of the page. That will bring up a page with links to guides for each main subject area. Although they are meant for classroom teachers, I have found some helpful tips in these guides.

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I’m dyslexic. I managed to get through German and hated every minute of it. I would suggest you try sign rather than a foreign language, if he is willing. It’s kinetic, avoids a lot of the hang-ups with spelling and grammar, and it compliments English. If I found out one of my children was dyslexic it would be my first choice.

 

ASL is often recommended as a language for dyslexics that can fulfill a foreign language requirement- and for good reason.

 

I just want to give one caution that it's not a panacea that works for all dyslexics. Some have visual processing challenges and/or motor planning challenges that may make ASL a poor choice. A student who has difficulty with developing automaticity in motor sequences- ie speech, dance, martial arts, sports, etc, may also have difficulty retaining the motor sequences for ASL.

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Thank you Marie!!! I went back to the site and it's there now. I'm thinking maybe it was something with how my zoom was set on my screen or something. In any case, I appreciate it! The article has tons of great ideas, and sounds like the other sections would be good too!

 

Yes, my dd has some praxis issues (dyspraxia, pick your name). So if you SHOW her how to do something, she can't replicate it. You have to put it into words. It can even be something as simple as finger movements like Itsy Bitsy Spider, and she can't replicate it. But that gives people something concrete they can try with their kids for themselves. She hasn't been watching the signing videos with me and ds, so I don't know how she would take to them.

 

Interestingly, in that Scottish page a number of the symptoms they list (toward the end of the article) are actually prime indicators of vision problems, things vision therapy could fix.

 

Wow, I'm reading more on that link, and they site a graphic artist who said the education in France totally shoved her aside because of her dyslexia and differences, even though she was QUITE talented and later went on to work on fabulous movies, etc. That would be my dd. She looks so not by certain standards, and yet she IS so bright. It's like we're constantly trying to figure out how to remediate them and make them fit in a world or style of academia that just doesn't fit them.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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  • 7 months later...
early elementary, I'd pick one modern language and stick with it.

 

My ds did two years of Latin (3rd & 4th), two years of Japanese (5th & 6th), and now is on his second year of Spanish (7th & 8th). If I could go back in time I would have chosed one modern language and taught it gently and continuously throughout those years.

 

I'd also focus only on vocabulary in the early years and not fuss too much with the grammar. My dyslexic kid has a really hard time retaining the vocab. Constanting drilling the vocab over a long period of time is the only way he retains.

 

Here's what I would have used in the early years:

 

For 3rd or 4th grade:

http://www.amazon.com/First-Words-Spanish-Audio-InSeries/dp/0071469257/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294591640&sr=1-2

 

 

For 4th/5th/6th:

http://www.amazon.com/Flash-Forward-Vocabulary-Living-Language/dp/1400006015/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294591679&sr=1-1

 

For 6th/7th

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Spanish-Homeschoolers-Self-Taught/dp/0979505135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294591727&sr=1-1

 

This is a really old thread, but Stacy, what did you use for Spanish I and II in 7th and 8th? And have you used anything else since? I recently bought the Flash Forward cd-rom and Getting Started in Spanish because we're having trouble with level 2 of La Clase Divertida.

 

Lisa

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.

ASL? Oh, that would be a good one, and it's something I'm pondering. If it weren't for that darned praxis I wouldn't even blink an eye at suggesting it. But once you get them unable to replicate hand motions that aren't explained, it doesn't go very well, kwim? LOL So I don't know if it would work for her. But for ds, yes. Will ds be dyslexic too? No clue. No bilateral issues so far, just the verbal apraxia. But that's a rabbit trail!

 

ASL has been suggested more than once & may be good for many dyslexics. I have the same feeling about my dyslexic son, however, as Elizabeth expresses here. Ds never officially got a label of apraxia of speech or dyspraxia, but I believe based on history & current fine motor function that these labels would be appropriate. He absolutely refused to do motions to songs when he was younger, though he would try the motions in one ASL intro class he did at co-op. He had a lot of difficulty with learning the routines in Tae Kwan Do, though he was not & is not a "clumsy" kid with respect to gross motor activity. I think he would be overwhelmed with the multitude of signs & putting them together that is necessary for actual communication in ASL.

 

OK, so now that I just wrote the above paragraph, I realized how old this thread is and that I already commented a couple of times! :lol:

 

Lisa Theresa, I hope you get your answer!

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