Talk to me about Right Start Math

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

What is it like? In talking to an IRL homeschool friend she said it was similar to Everyday Math and TERC investigations... is it? Can you explain it to me a bit? I dont want to do anything like ED math or TERC, but my son needs something with lots of hands on. He is doing MUS which is going really good but I would like a supplemental program also :001_smile:

[mhaddon]

I love it, very hands on with a lot of repetition. The lessons are laid out for you and even what to say if you need that, I changed the wording. I feel like it is teaching my son a very solid foundation of math. I know that a lot of the professors in our area that home school use the program (from an engineering school) and speak very highly of it.

[Crimson Wife]

What is it like? In talking to an IRL homeschool friend she said it was similar to Everyday Math and TERC investigations... is it? Can you explain it to me a bit? I dont want to do anything like ED math or TERC, but my son needs something with lots of hands on. He is doing MUS which is going really good but I would like a supplemental program also :001_smile:

 

No, it's nothing like Every Day Math. Right Start was developed by a Montessori teacher who wanted to adapt the Asian way of teaching math to incorporate the "hands-on" aspect of Montessori. But unlike EDM, it does teach the traditional algorithms too.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

No, it's nothing like Every Day Math. Right Start was developed by a Montessori teacher who wanted to adapt the Asian way of teaching math to incorporate the "hands-on" aspect of Montessori. But unlike EDM, it does teach the traditional algorithms too.

 

 

I didnt realize it teached math the Asian way. Is there anywhere I can see samples of Level A? Does 1 level take about a year? Or is it a bit longer?

[siloam]

What is it like? In talking to an IRL homeschool friend she said it was similar to Everyday Math and TERC investigations... is it? Can you explain it to me a bit? I dont want to do anything like ED math or TERC, but my son needs something with lots of hands on. He is doing MUS which is going really good but I would like a supplemental program also :001_smile:

RS starts by working with visualization of numbers and quantities, to build the ability to do mental math and math fluency in general. Then it covers place value and addition up to 9 digits in level B. This is the most challenging part of the program, because it is a lot for little minds to grasp. Level C works on subtraction and multiplication. Level D works on measurements and fractions. Level E works on division, ratio, percents and decimals. With in that RS will often follow the pattern: review base concepts, introduce new material to build on that base, cover new material with money, cover new material with time, cover new material with measurements. For example when you cover single digit numbers in B you also cover pennies and nickles, and hours. Measurements you can't really cover yet and given RS covers measurements by having the child draw figures (squares, rectangles, triangles, ect...) it in level B instead works on developing an understanding of these shapes. In level C you begin to draw them, and in level d you learn to use them to find perimeter, area and volume (as well as building them with inch and centimeter cubes). In level B you can't see where the program is going and the whole thing feels very random the first time through, but there really is a pattern.

 

RS also works with base 10 math like Singapore and other Asian math programs. That means that instead of always doing the math they child learns to often restructure the problem to make it easier to solve. I personally came from PS Saxon background and while I was good at math this was tedious at first. Given I am dyselxic I was the sort who was good at math (mainly because I liked writing numbers and accepted and memorized any formula they threw at me), but was the child who raised their hand to give the teacher the answer. I was still trying to figure it out when he called on the first student. Base 10 math, once I got it allowed me to understand numbers and regroup them in ways that allow me to actually be the fist one with the answer sometimes. :D

 

With addition (ignore the ...... they just keep the format or the system would remove all my spacing):

 

78 + 29 =

....../...\

78 +2+27=

.\..../

...80+27=

......../..\

80 + 20+7=

\......../

....100+7= 107

 

Some people get this and do it naturally, many do not. Asian math programs directly teach it. This is more the way Singapore teaches it RS would teach it in two different ways:

 

Base 10:

 

78 + 29 = 78+20 (mentally hold the 9)= 98+9=98+10-1=108-1=107

 

 

Base 5:

 

78 + 29 = 78+20 (mentally hold the 9)= 98+9=95 +3 +5+4=100 +7=107

 

Their are many different ways to actually manipulate the numbers and still get to the same answer. The point is for the child to learn they can use these methods to get to the answer faster, that numbers are more fluid than just plugging them into formulas. Some of these methods clicked for us and some we tried and don't use. All of us here prefer the base 10 method, and none of us use the base 5.

 

Let me know if you have questions.

 

Heather

[MGK]

It looks like there is going to be a free webinar on Tuesday about using the program:

 

http://activitiesforlearning.com/webinarfractions-1-2.aspx

 

I just purchased RS level B for my kindy daughter. I also found a questionnaire to help decide which level to use on their website:

 

http://www.alabacus.com/questions/

 

I don't know if that helps at all, but I thought I would share what I've learned since I've been looking at it for so long :001_smile:

 

I personally couldn't find any samples, but there's a good review at Cathy Duffy's site:

http://cathyduffyreviews.com/math/right-start-math.htm

 

 

Good luck to you,

 

Melanie

[Snowfall]

What is it like? In talking to an IRL homeschool friend she said it was similar to Everyday Math and TERC investigations... is it? Can you explain it to me a bit? I dont want to do anything like ED math or TERC, but my son needs something with lots of hands on. He is doing MUS which is going really good but I would like a supplemental program also :001_smile:

 

Good God, no! lol I wonder if your friend has not looked at it in depth. It has to be either that or she hasn't looked at TERC and Everyday Math. Those two programs are basically about algorithms, although they tend to teach unusual ones, rather than the norms. One of them specifically encourages teachers not to explain why the algorithms work, because the main thing is that kids just need to memorize them. RS is almost the polar opposite! RS teaches the reasons why we the math works the way it does long before the algorithms are ever even taught. Then it teaches the algorithms. I guess the only similarity would be that RS tends to teach both the usual ones and some different ones. Still, that's practically slanderous to compare RS to those two. :lol:

[mhaddon]

I have EDM as well and sooo different. I just book shelved it. I still use some of the ideas about incorporating everyday things, but not the program. Also I don't think you're expected to complete one level in one year, I know I won't. But I thought I read each level starts with a review so you can go a bit faster at first? It has enough activities that you can still do math even something simple everyday. Like today we reviewed a lot, played a game, and did a hands on manipulative. I also think handing DS the abacus just makes math more fun for him than a workbook. However, his is NOT a workbook kid at all. We are just on level A though so base it upon that. I do know at the front of the book it suggest to put it away and play for a few days/review if they are having trouble and I have to remind myself to do this. But- you will have more than enough in your hands to do this. I know with Singapore EarlyStart I was having to come up with other things and it was frustrating when he wasn't understanding something.

[Crimson Wife]

I didnt realize it teached math the Asian way. Is there anywhere I can see samples of Level A? Does 1 level take about a year? Or is it a bit longer?

 

Level A has 77 lessons. Each lesson typically covers 2 different topics, so it's easy to spread over multiple days if that works better for your child.

 

You can download the TOC and sample lessons here.

 

Level B was the original entry point into RS and it covers everything in A at a faster pace plus additional material. My oldest started at B and was fine. Now that I'm using A with my 2nd child, I'm even more confident that starting her in B was the right decision.

[FairProspects]

I didnt realize it teached math the Asian way. Is there anywhere I can see samples of Level A? Does 1 level take about a year? Or is it a bit longer?

 

I have a seriously wiggly ds, and it took us about 14 months to complete Level A going year round. I broke every lesson into 2 parts (some into 3) and we took a few breaks to let the more difficult concepts sink in.

 

I would plan on around a year per level with wiggly boys. It is still formal math, despite being hands-on and it is the "formal" part of anything that I think can be difficult for many young boys :D.

[plain jane]

I just wanted to add that RS is *so* teacher intensive. :svengo: I really like that but it can be hard to get it into a day when you have other kids to teach. To me it's not a bad thing, but just something I think anybody looking RS should be aware of.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I just wanted to add that RS is *so* teacher intensive. :svengo: I really like that but it can be hard to get it into a day when you have other kids to teach. To me it's not a bad thing, but just something I think anybody looking RS should be aware of.

 

 

How long a day would you say it takes? How much prep work? I would be doing both boys at once (until my older son is ready to move on ofcourse)

[Crimson Wife]

How long a day would you say it takes? How much prep work? I would be doing both boys at once (until my older son is ready to move on ofcourse)

 

I find that RS to be pretty much open-and-go. A few minutes to grab the right manipulatives for the lesson but other than that, there's no prep time needed.

 

How long you want to spend on the lessons is up to you. In the primary grades, I try to keep them short (no more than 15-20 minutes). By the time my oldest was finishing up RS C in 2nd grade, she was working more like 30-40 minutes at a time.

[trying my best]

Where do you buy RS math?

[siloam]

Where do you buy RS math?

 

Directly from them here, or from Rainbow Resource. They also have several youtube videos of the games you can find by searching on alabacus.

 

Heather

[sbgrace]

How long a day would you say it takes? How much prep work? I would be doing both boys at once (until my older son is ready to move on ofcourse)

The only way it's teacher intensive imo is that you have to be there with the child during the lesson in the early levels. I can't imagine effective K/1st grade math that is hand the child the book and walk away at any point at least for typical kids. I really don't get the teacher intensive label essentially.

 

Prep--none for me. I just open, peruse, grab manipulatives from the list at the beginning of the lesson, start. It's scripted and you have all the materials so no planning.

 

RightStart A lessons took about 15 minutes a day here and sometimes less. It took us about a year but I was relaxed with lots of breaks and at times we did 1/2 a lesson and then 1/2 the next day. It was actually designed that way I read once and it seems like it is because the lessons are often split into two distinct topics. So 15 minutes of "math time" per child (mine together doesn't go well) and no prep here. Are you planning, then, to teach them both at the same time with the same level? I didn't look at your sig ages so realize that if you're doing B or C the time bumps up a bit though I think C has more independence too. I know there have been threads on it.

Edited January 8, 2011 by sbgrace

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Wow I am starting to think this is going to be a really good fit for my boys. Anything else you guys want to tell me about it? I read through the first 4 lessons of RS A and I like how they are set up.

[siloam]

The only way it's teacher intensive imo is that you have to be there with the child during the lesson in the early levels. I can't imagine effective K/1st grade math that is hand the child the book and walk away at any point at least for typical kids. I really don't get the teacher intensive label essentially.

 

Agreed, though RS does continue to be teacher lead through E and not just K/1st grade. My oldest was in 3rd grade doing Singapore when we switched, and I still was having to sit and walk her through new concepts for a week or more before it would sink in (hands on and auditory learner and Singapore is more for visual learning styles). When we switched to RS my time commitment actually went down. Now that she has moved on from E I still spend roughly the same amount of time teaching Lial's Basic College Math as I used to teaching RS, just once or twice a week instead of daily.

 

Most of the time I can do the warm up and instruction in 5-10 mins. It only takes longer when they don't get something and I have to regroup and think of a new way to teach it.

 

Do other math programs really take less teaching time in the 2nd to 4th grade range? I know if you are going through the text for Singapore it would take the same amount of time or more if you also work the practice problems.

 

All I can figure is that includes a lot of game playing time (I limit it to 15 mins a day and have the kids play most of the games with each other, I only play a couple times a week) or they are sitting there with them while they do the worksheets.

 

I never do RS for 30-40 mins a day.

 

Heather

[plain jane]

Agreed, though RS does continue to be teacher lead through E and not just K/1st grade. My oldest was in 3rd grade doing Singapore when we switched, and I still was having to sit and walk her through new concepts for a week or more before it would sink in (hands on and auditory learner and Singapore is more for visual learning styles). When we switched to RS my time commitment actually went down. Now that she has moved on from E I still spend roughly the same amount of time teaching Lial's Basic College Math as I used to teaching RS, just once or twice a week instead of daily.

 

Most of the time I can do the warm up and instruction in 5-10 mins. It only takes longer when they don't get something and I have to regroup and think of a new way to teach it.

 

Do other math programs really take less teaching time in the 2nd to 4th grade range? I know if you are going through the text for Singapore it would take the same amount of time or more if you also work the practice problems.

 

All I can figure is that includes a lot of game playing time (I limit it to 15 mins a day and have the kids play most of the games with each other, I only play a couple times a week) or they are sitting there with them while they do the worksheets.

 

I never do RS for 30-40 mins a day.

 

Heather

 

Oh, I agree that there is the same amount of teaching time with RS vs another math program. I should have included that in my post- I thought to but got distracted. A good math program requires a teacher to teach it to the child and not just give them a workbook and walk away IMO.

 

Having also used Horizons and SM I do find I spend more time with RS than the other programs. There were a lot of times that I could give my child the Horizons book and get some independent work out of them while I worked with another child. I have not found this to be the case with RS. I like how interactive it is, but I found that with the lack of workbook in the early years (and all the games) I really need to be there for the entire lesson. Even when SM took a lot of teaching and explaining, there is eventually workbook work that I would have the child do (or atleast attempt) on their own.

 

My dd really likes math and will often grab the MM workbook off the shelf or the SM book and work through it in her spare time.- I don't encourage this, but it's something she really likes to do and if I go and mark the work and it's all correct and I can see that she's understanding it, it's not a hill I need to die on. Anyways.... I see RS as being more teacher intensive because she can't do this with RS. Someone needs to be there to present the material to her or play the games with her. Again, i don't see this as a bad thing, it's just very different from the other 3 math programs we've used. :)

 

We do math for 1/2 hour. Sometimes that means we get a lesson done, sometimes 1/2, sometimes we get through 2 in a day. It works for us. I do like that it's open and go.

[Crimson Wife]

Do other math programs really take less teaching time in the 2nd to 4th grade range? I know if you are going through the text for Singapore it would take the same amount of time or more if you also work the practice problems.

 

I think this really depends on the individual child. For my oldest, the Singapore/MM combo she has been using is significantly less parent-intensive than RS C was. It usually only takes me maybe 5-10 minutes to get her started and then she can work on her own with me doing something else in the same room. Unlike RS where I actually had to sit there and interact with her the entire lesson.

 

In the primary grades, she wouldn't have been able to work so independently. I likely would've spent as much time with her using Singapore or MM (assuming that was available at the time she started) as I did using RS B & C.

[PeterPan]

Wrangler, I used RS A-D, repped for them, like it, but I don't really see the logic in using it as a supplement with MUS. You could just get the RS Games Kit, upgrade the abacus to the standard, add on the base 10 picture cards and place value cards (love, love, love these!), and then get something totally different like the Kitchen Table math book the AoPS people sell. BTW, there's a really terrific base 10 rubber stamp set you want. I found it at the Lakeshore Learning store, and I think it is their product. Here's a link.http://www.lakeshorelearning.com/product/productDet.jsp;jsessionid=NyPWWchKJgGmmYjfqKpwht3pX6DGpBNGd29lYTcMLhWHr1rhZPTz!-969168162!-366460529?productItemID=1%2C689%2C949%2C371%2C898%2C664&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181113&bmUID=1294520246445 So you'd form quantities with the base 10 picture cards, the place value cards, on the abacus, and with the rubber stamps, even with play money if you have it or on the calculator. Very fun! :)

[siloam]

I think this really depends on the individual child. For my oldest, the Singapore/MM combo she has been using is significantly less parent-intensive than RS C was. It usually only takes me maybe 5-10 minutes to get her started and then she can work on her own with me doing something else in the same room. Unlike RS where I actually had to sit there and interact with her the entire lesson.

 

In the primary grades, she wouldn't have been able to work so independently. I likely would've spent as much time with her using Singapore or MM (assuming that was available at the time she started) as I did using RS B & C.

 

I think you are right, that it depends on the child and maybe your situation. In my situation I also don't have to worry about the games more than a couple times a week.

 

After having done RS the kids can go back and do Singapore by just reading the text themselves and then doing the workbook. But when Singapore was their main program it was painful and math was the most hated subject in the house. I swear they wrote RS just for my kids, and how they think. :D

 

But I also started out with 3 student in level B. My oldest (then 3rd grade) was soon doing 2 lessons a day, while my 2nd dd just worked at normal pace (then 1st grade) and my 3rd dd really needed to be in A (then K), but I just took her more slowly through B. Point being I have taught it so much and so close together than I don't use the scripting. I quite possibly am getting to the point more quickly. In fact it is kinda funny because right now my oldest finished E two months ago and my 2nd dd will start E in the next couple of weeks. A couple of weeks after that my 3rd dd will start D and a couple of weeks again after that my ds will start C. In essence I just finish them to start all over again.

 

I don't know if it is the way I now teach it without the script or what but practically I just do the same you do, teach for 5-10 minuets and then hand them the worksheet and walk away. I know there are a few sheets they normally have you do with the student (maybe more than I remember), but I didn't think there was that many. I generally do the warm up, look at the worksheet and then briefly teach anything new with an example I make up off the top of my head, then show them the worksheet and explain what I expect to see as in the format of the formula and answer with label (my kids don't intuit this). Generally they can run with that and do just fine. There have been times, with my 3rd dd in particular, where the warm up alone took her 15 mins. She hated doing the mental math and would loose the numbers or start day dreaming constantly. That is why she is so much more behind now. I would do the warm ups on one day and the lesson the next. Gave her a break from the mental math and kept it all to a reasonable time frame. Now she doesn't have a problem with the mental math at all and can do a whole lesson in one day.

 

Then add on top of that the fact the kids play a ton of the games, but with each other. This week I only played a round of Money War and Rows and Columns. The kids, on the other hand, played a game every day.

 

It just works here, for lots of reasons specific to us.

 

Heather

[Crimson Wife]

Point being I have taught it so much and so close together than I don't use the scripting. I quite possibly am getting to the point more quickly....I don't know if it is the way I now teach it without the script or what but practically I just do the same you do, teach for 5-10 minuets and then hand them the worksheet and walk away... I generally do the warm up, look at the worksheet and then briefly teach anything new with an example I make up off the top of my head, then show them the worksheet and explain what I expect to see as in the format of the formula and answer with label (my kids don't intuit this). Generally they can run with that and do just fine.

 

Most parents who use RS *DO* follow the script, however. And that's why they typically find the program parent-intensive. Someone who uses RS as written will need to spend pretty much the entire lesson interacting with the child.

[mhaddon]

I am finding level A to be very short. I think maybe it was b/c it was taking soooo long for his other math program to sink in and it ended in tears. So this seems much faster. We aren't breaking into two parts yet b/c he is understanding it much easier. So maybe it depends on the child as well? I think the OP was asking about level A right? I'm not sure about older levels.