ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I bought my first gallon of raw milk today:) I drove about 40 minutes to a lovely lady's house. I got to pet the cows and everything!!!! The milk I got is from a Guernsey cow. I'm hoping my son, who was allergic to milk as a child, will be able to tolerate this milk. However, I have a question. I like making yogurt and planned on making yogurt with this milk and having my son try a small amount, as yogurt is the most digestible form of milk. Well, the problem is that I'm reading that heating the milk to 180 F like I normally do will kill all the beneficial enzymes in the raw milk. But I'm also reading that if I don't heat it that high the live enzymes will work against the starter culture and will leave me with weird, runny, fairly gross yogurt. No one will want to eat that! So, WWYD? If I heat it up am I losing ALL of the benefits? I mean, if it totally ruins it then I might as well keep making my yogurt with store bought, pasturized milk! Although, I guess there is still the benefit of it not being homogenized, plus the milk is likely to have the A2 Casein protein because of the breed of cow. Hmm....I'm leaning towards heating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in KY Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Heat it. The risks of raw milk far outweigh the benefits (good heavens, I am probably starting a massively controversial thread). It's not necessarily to cleanliness of the processing that makes a difference. If infected deer eat the same hay, they can transmit brucellosis . It truly hasn't anything to do with the cleanliness of the dairy operation. Believe me, you don't want either of your kids contracting that because you gave them what you thought would be healthy for them.... Susan (taking a deep breath and hitting, "post") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I did research brucellosis, there hasn't been a case in cattle in this state in 5 years or more. But i will heat it just to keep it the right consistency. Edited January 7, 2011 by ktgrok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Heat it. The risks of raw milk far outweigh the benefits (good heavens, I am probably starting a massively controversial thread). Yeah. Let's not go there. ;) (We drink raw milk from our goats believing the benefits far outweigh the risks; most people who choose raw milk these days do so because they believe this way and they've already done the research to come to that conclusion). As for heating the milk, we haven't made yogurt yet so I don't know the answer. I would think you'd heat it for yogurt, but hopefully be able to drink it eventually too so you can get the beneficial enzymes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan in KY Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 :) I figured I'd regret it, but then again, I've never been part of a banned thread before. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 :) I figured I'd regret it, but then again, I've never been part of a banned thread before. :D I have, it's not all it's cracked up to be :tongue_smilie: Katie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayfaring Stranger Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Making yogurt from raw milk, even if heated (I have done it both ways) is still better than using store bought milk. The stuff in the store is not just pasteurized they do a lot more than just heat it. The store milk is from hundreds of cows and most of them are going to be Holsteins (and many will be sick). The fact that you got it from a Guernsey is already a step in the right direction. And you have seen the cow and know a little about the health of the animal. You have also bought from a local farmer. If small farms are ever to come back in this country it will be because of raw milk in my opinion. The cow just provides so much for a small farmer. As far as safety...people rarely get sick from raw milk. A few years ago on the "Complete Patient" blog they did a comparison of sickness and death from raw milk and pasteurized milk. The rates of both are higher with pasteurized milk. If you take out the cases of sickness from raw milk Mexican Cheese (mostly in San Diego I think) the numbers are even more convincing. Most cases of sickness that I know of are from milk that has been pasteurized poorly. I have not looked into it for a few years so I do not have the exact sources at my finger tips but it sounds like you have done some homework on your own. I would say if you do not think raw milk is safe than do not drink it, I do not have a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpidarkomama Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Mmmmmm... raw milk yogurt. YUM! We moved and where we live it's not legal. You also can't bring it across state lines. :angry: Grrrrrr... Hoping to get our own goats in a year or two. At least they can't prevent you from drinking milk from your own animals!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Mmmmmm... raw milk yogurt. YUM! We moved and where we live it's not legal. You also can't bring it across state lines. :angry: Grrrrrr... Hoping to get our own goats in a year or two. At least they can't prevent you from drinking milk from your own animals!!! Here it can only be sold if the milk is labeled "For pet use only." Once I buy it what I do with it is my business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarreymere Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well, you HAVE to heat it to make yogurt if that is what you want to do with it. The yogurt you get out of it tastes different because it is not homogenized and you are making yogurt with all the cream as well. WAY better than the lowfat/nonfat crap in the store. Amazing, actually. I'm sure you'll get around to drinking some. I get raw milk and we make some yogurt, use it for cooking, drink some, and use some in baking just like store milk. I'm sure that we are killing some helpful bacteria when we cook or bake too, but hey you have to bake the dough before you eat it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Heating to 180 degrees for the short period of time required to make yogurt, doesn't actually kill all the beneficial bacteria. Beneficial bacteria require a longer heating time and a little higher temp to do so. But, it does weaken the viral and bacterial coats of non-beneficial microbes. The probiotics of the yogurt will actually kill off the weakened microbes. Probiotic microbes are much, much hardier than ecoli and brucellosis. Also, you can add back probiotic culturing agents to the milk. Since your son has had dairy problems in the past, I highly recommend that you culture your yogurt for a full 24 hours. This allows the good bacteria to not only completely destroy the bad ones but it also means all of the lactose will be broken down. Most people only culture for about 12 hours which is fine but a full 24 is a good aim for your son. Commercially pasteurized milk is flash heated to a much higher temperature which kills all bacteria, the good as well as the bad. It is sterile milk and the process is so violent to the milk that it destroys the vitamin content as well. So, vitamins A and D are added back synthetically. Synthetic vitamins are not very easy to assimilate so you end up absorbing very little of it. There are ways to minimize the risk of raw milk and get the full benefit of the nutrients. Making butter, a process in which the probiotics have time to destroy the bad buggers and culturing it, are two excellent ways. One doesn't have to drink raw milk to get benefits from it. Our cow is boarded on an organic farm. The farm manager has an independent testing agency test his farm for bad ecoli (not all farms are bad - some you really need in your gut), listeria, brucellosis, etc. His cows are pasture raised and range cows. So they are very, very healthy. He's never had a positive test result ever. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susankenny Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Heat it. You have too, or the yogurt won't be yogurt, lol. With the other milk, I'd use it to make milk kefir. That's what most people I know IRL purchase raw milk for. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I just drank a glass, with a warm cookie. Oh my!!!! I had no idea milk could be so tasty!!! It was truly delicious!!! I don't know if it is because it is raw, because the cow gets just hay and grass, or because of the breed (Guernsey) but it was so much better than store bought milk that I'm used to. I could never just sit and drink a glass of store milk, but I may have to ration this stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I just drank a glass, with a warm cookie. Oh my!!!! I had no idea milk could be so tasty!!! It was truly delicious!!! I don't know if it is because it is raw, because the cow gets just hay and grass, or because of the breed (Guernsey) but it was so much better than store bought milk that I'm used to. I could never just sit and drink a glass of store milk, but I may have to ration this stuff! :iagree: We have one milk goat right now, and a baby female (not the milk goat's baby), and I'm wanting MORE. Right now, with nine of us and one milk goat, we can't just all have a big glass of milk when we want some. It's rationed, and some is used for cheese. I want to get at least 2-3 milk goats going. And I didn't think I'd like goat milk so much -- but my dd (who does the milking) read up on why milk can taste "goaty" and has been doing the right things. I can't tell the difference between it and cow milk. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepymommy Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 It's still better than store-bought yogurt, go for it. You could also make milk kefir, which is chock full of probiotics and is similar to a yogurt drink. It's makes the casein in milk more digestible and you don't have to heat the milk so all the beneficial stuff stays intact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 It's still better than store-bought yogurt, go for it. You could also make milk kefir, which is chock full of probiotics and is similar to a yogurt drink. It's makes the casein in milk more digestible and you don't have to heat the milk so all the beneficial stuff stays intact! I'm just trying to figure out where to get the kefir grains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 just jumping on to tell you how jealous I am. We are not allowed to sell/buy raw milk here. But when I was a kid I lived across from a farm and that was all we drank. So raise a glass to those of us who would love to drink raw milk, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachaheart Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm just trying to figure out where to get the kefir grains. http://www.culturesforhealth.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KS_ Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm just trying to figure out where to get the kefir grains. I got some from someone on this list - I chose someone geographically close to me and he sent out wonderful milk grains for the cost of postage: http://www.rejoiceinlife.com/kefir/kefirlistUSA.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WistfulRidge Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I just drank a glass, with a warm cookie. Oh my!!!! I had no idea milk could be so tasty!!! It was truly delicious!!! I don't know if it is because it is raw, because the cow gets just hay and grass, or because of the breed (Guernsey) but it was so much better than store bought milk that I'm used to. I could never just sit and drink a glass of store milk, but I may have to ration this stuff! :iagree: Oh, I am so jealous. I can't stand store milk. It literally makes me sick. But raw milk... *swoons*. I can drink almost an entire gallon in a sitting. I am counting the hours until we can have our own cow (or two, lol) because there is no way my current budget could support buying raw milk and I *miss* milk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 :iagree: Oh, I am so jealous. I can't stand store milk. It literally makes me sick. But raw milk... *swoons*. I can drink almost an entire gallon in a sitting. I am counting the hours until we can have our own cow (or two, lol) because there is no way my current budget could support buying raw milk and I *miss* milk! Try realmilk.com. It is illegal here too, they just label it for pet use so they can sell it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caitlinsmom Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You might want to check out this site. http://gnowfglins.com/ecourse/members/ They offer a wealth of information about raw milk and all the things you can do with it. There is a forum designed just for these kinds of questions. They just changed the layout so I belive it is $10 a month now but the amount of information you get is incredible. I belive Cultures for Health also has a lot of information available as well as kefir grains. http://www.culturesforhealth.com/ Good luck, nothing beats raw milk! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WistfulRidge Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Try realmilk.com. It is illegal here too, they just label it for pet use so they can sell it :) Finding it isn't the problem :) I've got several people more than willing to sell it to me at a discount because they're friends/ friends of the family, but at easily 2-3 gallons of milk a week my poor budget can't take $5-$10/gallon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristavws Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Making yogurt from raw milk, even if heated (I have done it both ways) is still better than using store bought milk. The stuff in the store is not just pasteurized they do a lot more than just heat it. The store milk is from hundreds of cows and most of them are going to be Holsteins (and many will be sick). The fact that you got it from a Guernsey is already a step in the right direction. And you have seen the cow and know a little about the health of the animal. You have also bought from a local farmer. If small farms are ever to come back in this country it will be because of raw milk in my opinion. The cow just provides so much for a small farmer. As far as safety...people rarely get sick from raw milk. A few years ago on the "Complete Patient" blog they did a comparison of sickness and death from raw milk and pasteurized milk. The rates of both are higher with pasteurized milk. If you take out the cases of sickness from raw milk Mexican Cheese (mostly in San Diego I think) the numbers are even more convincing. Most cases of sickness that I know of are from milk that has been pasteurized poorly. I have not looked into it for a few years so I do not have the exact sources at my finger tips but it sounds like you have done some homework on your own. I would say if you do not think raw milk is safe than do not drink it, I do not have a problem with that. :iagree: I agree completely. We have our own milk cow, and drink the milk raw. I also make all of our dairy products. Krista Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I'm just trying to figure out where to get the kefir grains. my acquaintance pat runs this site. this is a link to where members share cultures. the members will charge s&h only, so that's a great deal. i got my water kefir here. http://heal-thyself.ning.com/group/sharingstartercultures you can also check at mothering.com/discussions ...members there share cultures a lot too. hth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You might want to check out this site.http://gnowfglins.com/ecourse/members/ i've taken her ecourses...they're really good. she has a lot of great tips that go nicely with sally fallon's book, nourishing traditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazzie Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I find it works fine to heat the raw milk to about 160. It's not gross or runny, but good! I don't like the cream top, though, and neither do my kids. DH loves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girligirlmom Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I bought my first gallon of raw milk today:)I drove about 40 minutes to a lovely lady's house. I got to pet the cows and everything!!!! The milk I got is from a Guernsey cow. I'm hoping my son, who was allergic to milk as a child, will be able to tolerate this milk. However, I have a question. I like making yogurt and planned on making yogurt with this milk and having my son try a small amount, as yogurt is the most digestible form of milk. Well, the problem is that I'm reading that heating the milk to 180 F like I normally do will kill all the beneficial enzymes in the raw milk. But I'm also reading that if I don't heat it that high the live enzymes will work against the starter culture and will leave me with weird, runny, fairly gross yogurt. No one will want to eat that! So, WWYD? If I heat it up am I losing ALL of the benefits? I mean, if it totally ruins it then I might as well keep making my yogurt with store bought, pasturized milk! Although, I guess there is still the benefit of it not being homogenized, plus the milk is likely to have the A2 Casein protein because of the breed of cow. Hmm....I'm leaning towards heating it. So did he try it? Can he have it? I have a ds with food allergies and one day I hope he will be able to try milk. We will start with Butter oil (aka ghee) and go from there following the GAPS dairy introduction protocol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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