Spines for Ancients?

[LNC]

I am using Truthquest History Ancient Egypt & Greece and Ancient Rome next year.

 

I have a lot of spines! This is for 5th and 7th graders:

1. Guerber (but they want to read these straight through over the summer before and then we'll schedule them in per TQ. She schedules them out of order bc her commentary drives the schedule not the spine.)

2. Famous Men of Greece and Rome (Memoria Press has quides and teacher's manuals for these)

3. Spielvogel, Western Civilization (w/online quizzes and helps)

4. Dorothy Mills Ancients books (Memoria Press is reprinting these or I'll buy antique oop to include the maps and pics)

5. I also have Streams of Civilization (we can either just read or purchase the teacher's manuals and tests to go with them from Rainbow Resources)

 

First, I schedule the TQ commentary and spines into 36 weeks. We all read these and discuss. I also have a checklist of readers for them to read through. I used to use the library a lot for the 3 American History TQ books. Now, I own more than enough ancients books bc I was able to purchase from a retired homeschooler's living books library! She also used TQ.

 

My questions are -

1. Which of these spines would you choose? I really want to use all but #5.

 

2. Output?

The online quizzes for Spielvogel look good. There really isn't that much reading for Ancients there - looks doable.

Would you buy the Famous Men teacher and student books from Memoria Press and work through them? TQ schedules the FM chapters but I would like some notebooking projects too? The Dorothy Mills teacher and student books are in beta from Memoria Press, so I think I'll hold off on them for now. The Mills books are a great narrative history though and we'll want to at least read them. I've read several from the library and loved them!

 

Output:

1. a commonplace book per student with comments about readers

2. Spielvogel online quizzes

3. Famous Men Student books

4. History Scribe pages (maybe but I already own this) in a notebook following TQ schedule.

 

Enough for middle school? Which of these spines would you use for outlining practice?

Edited January 6, 2011 by LNC

[mama25angels]

I think I would use # 1 or 4 or a combination of the two. We are using the Famous Men series as a read aloud this year and the kids enjoy them. I have heard that others find them dry and boring.

[Kfamily]

I have and my dd 8th grade is using the guide from Memoria Press for The Ancient World. Truthfully, I don't really think too much of the guide. The books, of course are wonderful, but I don't think the guide is what I was hoping it would be. I think for a 5th grader it would be fine, especially to bring in some independent work, but for a 7th grader it really isn't deep enough (at least for us). We're using The Renaissance and Reformation Times book and I'm making our own guide for it. Perhaps the guides will deepen for each continuing level...I don't know this...just thinking out loud...:001_smile:

[Avila]

I have and my dd 8th grade is using the guide from Memoria Press for The Ancient World. Truthfully, I don't really think too much of the guide. The books, of course are wonderful, but I don't think the guide is what I was hoping it would be. I think for a 5th grader it would be fine, especially to bring in some independent work, but for a 7th grader it really isn't deep enough (at least for us). We're using The Renaissance and Reformation Times book and I'm making our own guide for it. Perhaps the guides will deepen for each continuing level...I don't know this...just thinking out loud...:001_smile:

 

Not to derail the thread, but did you get just the student guide or both the student and the teacher guide? I called them today to try to get a sample, but they don't have it up yet. She just said to keep checking back. :tongue_smilie: I would love to have something for Book of the Ancient World, since I don't have as much to add to that as I do with the other books. And I am looking for something to ease DD#2 into working more independently.

 

I have used all the Mills' books for history now with my oldest, and I love them. I have always written my own "curriculum" to go with them, basically ala Sonlight or HO. I also use the Famous Men books, but without the guides. The guides are OK, but I don't feel like they are necessary with everything else DD#1 is doing. I may change my mind with DD#2. So for me, your #2 and 4 together have been awesome.

 

I do pull in the Kingfisher, and that is what she outlined. But once she learned how, I didn't see the need to keep up with all the outlining, especially since our grammar book also teaches it.

[mama25angels]

Asenik, I don't want to derail this thread either, but I just wanted to say how much I love, love, love your signature line. I also love the fact that you make your own curriculum, i've been doing that myself and love hearing how other people do it, if you don't mind sharing. thanks

[Kfamily]

Asenik, I have both the student and teacher guide. The teacher guide is exactly like the student guide but with answers. Dd is using this, but independently. I'm not sure what happened with the guide's availability at Memoria Press. I purchased all three (book, s. guide and t. guide) last year in beta form.

[LNC]

Interesting - maybe I don't want the Memoria Press guides to go along with Famous Men and Dorothy Mills!

 

I do want something for output though:

1. Would a commonplace book, History Scribe pages, and outlining be enough???

2. Which spine would you outline from? I was thinking Spielvogel bc it isn't narrative...I guess Kingfisher (red) is an option, but they have read that soooo many times.

Edited January 6, 2011 by LNC

[mama25angels]

Interesting - maybe I don't want the Memoria Press guides for Famous Men and Dorothy Mills!

 

I do want something for output though:

1. Would a commonplace book, History Scribe pages, and outlining be enough???

2. Which spine would you outline from? I was thinking Spielvogel bc it isn't narrative...I guess Kingfisher (red) is an option, but they have read that soooo many times.

 

I think as long as they are also writing a bit in other subjects, that should be enough. I would probably outline from Spielvogel. I also wanted to add that I love the way you set up your TQ history.

[Avila]

Asenik, I don't want to derail this thread either, but I just wanted to say how much I love, love, love your signature line. I also love the fact that you make your own curriculum, i've been doing that myself and love hearing how other people do it, if you don't mind sharing. thanks

 

Well, thank you. I put it on there to remind ME of it! I need the reminders.

 

I take my narrative spine and schedule it out first, fitting it into the number of weeks we are doing school and the number of days per week that we are studying history that year. Then I start to wrap in all the other resources around it. I try to leave room for following the occasional rabbit trail and for adding in things my favorite narrative spine doesn't cover (the Mills' books are Western civilization mainly, and I like to add in world coverage). So then I have to find resources to fill in those gaps. Then I look at primary sources to plug into the right places. And after that, I still have to make room for my literature, biographies and historical fiction. I try to make a list of what I feel like is mandatory for a given year, in terms of map skills, people to know, important events, and I use those to determine what we are doing for timeline studies, writing people summaries and doing our mapwork. I also try to have our educational goals for the year written down somewhere, so I can make sure what I am planning is accomplishing them. This year, the focus for my oldest was in writing skills, so I tried hard to build that naturally into what I was planning. If I am really on the ball, I take it one step further and try to balance out the writing assignments so that she doesn't have to write an essay for English on the same day I assign one in history. And we cover literature in history, so I don't have to worry about extra balancing there.

 

I have looked at Sonlight, Mother of Divine Grace, and History Odyssey, and I have taken parts of what I think they do well to incorporate into what we do. So they are my go-tos for my extras usually. I don't know that a lot of what I do is really original in HOW I do it, but none of the other plans use all the resources that I have and want to use, so I always have to pull that part together myself.

 

The Simply Charlotte Mason guide actually explains how I do things pretty well, although I wasn't fortunate enough to find it before I figured that out! I learned by trial and error! But the SCM guide is helpful reading for me to go back to when I plan now.

 

A lot of the time, I wish I were a little less of a control freak so I could happily go with someone else's plan. But after I do all the work to set up my plan, it isn't any more time- or teacher-intensive to DO than anything else we would have chosen, and I am a lot happier because it includes everything I think it should include.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Asenik

[mama25angels]

Well, thank you. I put it on there to remind ME of it! I need the reminders.

 

I take my narrative spine and schedule it out first, fitting it into the number of weeks we are doing school and the number of days per week that we are studying history that year. Then I start to wrap in all the other resources around it. I try to leave room for following the occasional rabbit trail and for adding in things my favorite narrative spine doesn't cover (the Mills' books are Western civilization mainly, and I like to add in world coverage). So then I have to find resources to fill in those gaps. Then I look at primary sources to plug into the right places. And after that, I still have to make room for my literature, biographies and historical fiction. I try to make a list of what I feel like is mandatory for a given year, in terms of map skills, people to know, important events, and I use those to determine what we are doing for timeline studies, writing people summaries and doing our mapwork. If I am really on the ball, I take it one step further and try to balance out the writing assignments so that she doesn't have to write an essay for English on the same day I assign one in history. And we cover literature in history, so I don't have to worry about extra balancing there.

 

I have looked at Sonlight, Mother of Divine Grace, and History Odyssey, and I have taken parts of what I think they do well to incorporate into what we do. So they are my go-tos for my extras usually. I don't know that a lot of what I do is really original in HOW I do it, but none of the other plans use all the resources that I have and want to use, so I always have to pull that part together myself.

 

The Simply Charlotte Mason guide actually explains how I do things pretty well, although I wasn't fortunate enough to find it before I figured that out! I learned by trial and error! But the SCM guide is helpful reading for me to go back to when I plan now.

 

A lot of the time, I wish I were a little less of a control freak so I could happily go with someone else's plan. But after I do all the work to set up my plan, it isn't any more time- or teacher-intensive to DO than anything else we would have chosen, and I am a lot happier because it includes everything I think it should include.

 

Thank you so much for the explanation!!!!

[Avila]

Asenik, I have both the student and teacher guide. The teacher guide is exactly like the student guide but with answers. Dd is using this, but independently. I'm not sure what happened with the guide's availability at Memoria Press. I purchased all three (book, s. guide and t. guide) last year in beta form.

 

The guides are available, but the samples to show what they include are not! The only sample is of the book, and I don't need it because I own it already. :tongue_smilie:

 

The information on the teacher guide helps. Thank you! I don't know if I really need an answer key, so I might be able to save that $18. :D

[Avila]

Interesting - maybe I don't want the Memoria Press guides to go along with Famous Men and Dorothy Mills!

 

I do want something for output though:

1. Would a commonplace book, History Scribe pages, and outlining be enough???

2. Which spine would you outline from? I was thinking Spielvogel bc it isn't narrative...I guess Kingfisher (red) is an option, but they have read that soooo many times.

 

For #1 -- I think it would. Really! If anything sparks an interest, you can always add in more reading from the library.

 

#2 -- you know, familiarity with the text may be an advantage in teaching the outlining. Outlining it is different from just reading it, and already having the concepts down might really help solidify the outlining part. Of course, there isn't anything wrong with outlining Spielvogel either.

[Kfamily]

Memoria Press has a sample from the student book and teacher book online for the Ancient World, in case you'd like to see it.

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/HistoryGuides.html

[Avila]

Memoria Press has a sample from the student book and teacher book online for the Ancient World, in case you'd like to see it.

 

http://www.memoriapress.com/descriptions/HistoryGuides.html

 

Thanks!

 

I am excited to see this. When I called them yesterday, they said it was coming and to just check back.

 

Off to research it ...

[LNC]

Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking of using all the spines from my OP but Streams, and all the output choices except for the student books or teacher books for the Dorothy Mills series.

 

Does anyone know when Memoria Press will release the Dorothy Mills Ancient Rome book? I may just get used copies from ABE for Ancient World, Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome by Dorothy Mills.

[shanvan]

 

Spielvogel, Western Civilization (w/online quizzes and helps)

 

The online quizzes for Spielvogel look good.

 

 

 

Okay, I've searched the boards, but can't seem to find info about the online quizzes and helps for Spielvogel. Where can I find these? I'm planning on using it as a spine in the near future. TIA

 

Shannon

[Cleopatra]

Kudos to Asenik for writing her own curriculum! It's alot of work!

 

After finishing SOTW last year, I made my own history curriculum for this year using The History of the Ancient World by Guerber/Miller. I also am incorporating Famous Men of Greece and Rome. Instead of using the Memoria Press guides, whenever my dd comes across a famous person that interests her, I get her to write a summary report. I find she learns and retains more this way, instead of just having her answer questions.

 

In addition, I've included biography pages, mapwork, timeline, various projects (excavating a pyramid, embalming a mummy, etc.) and extra literature (novels) that align with the period she's studying. It's working much better than I'd ever hoped (a relief after all that planning! :001_smile: )

 

Spielvogel's Western Civilization makes me drool as well :drool5: but I'm going to practice unusual self-control and save it for high school.

[LNC]

Okay, I've searched the boards, but can't seem to find info about the online quizzes and helps for Spielvogel. Where can I find these? I'm planning on using it as a spine in the near future. TIA

 

Shannon

 

I just saw this - sorry for the delay. I bought the 6th edition used and it came with access codes on a card in the back for this website below. I haven't explored it to see what is usable without the code...

http://www.wadsworth.com/cgi-wadsworth/course_products_wp.pl?fid=M20b&product_isbn_issn=0534646026&discipline_number=21

 

Looks great!

[shanvan]

I just saw this - sorry for the delay. I bought the 6th edition used and it came with access codes on a card in the back for this website below. I haven't explored it to see what is usable without the code...

http://www.wadsworth.com/cgi-wadsworth/course_products_wp.pl?fid=M20b&product_isbn_issn=0534646026&discipline_number=21

 

Looks great!

 

 

Thanks, I thought it might be a code for this site, but wanted to make sure. We have another year to go before I'll be using it. It's good to know that codes from a slightly older edition still allow access online.

 

Shannon

[Closeacademy]

Another good spine is Oak Meadow. I didn't care for a lot of the other choices and went with that. If you want to follow WTM exactly then you would have to look at the levels for 5-8.

 

5th--colonial to civil war & US geography

6th--stone age to Renaissance

7th--Age of Discover to modern times

8th--US civis aka modern US history

 

It's a pretty good program. The reading are short but informative and the texts concentrate on the building up of society rather than war and death. They have thought provoking questions, lots of research writing and other projects since Oak Meadow is geared toward multiple styles of learning. There is also other books to read in addition to the text.

 

We are starting our second year and are very happy with it.:001_smile:

[Avila]

I have and my dd 8th grade is using the guide from Memoria Press for The Ancient World. Truthfully, I don't really think too much of the guide. The books, of course are wonderful, but I don't think the guide is what I was hoping it would be. I think for a 5th grader it would be fine, especially to bring in some independent work, but for a 7th grader it really isn't deep enough (at least for us). We're using The Renaissance and Reformation Times book and I'm making our own guide for it. Perhaps the guides will deepen for each continuing level...I don't know this...just thinking out loud...:001_smile:

 

I just wanted to add that I went ahead and bought the guide, but I bought the Teacher Key only for this year. I am using it with my 4th grader, mostly orally.

 

I do think it would be a really nice guide to use with a 4th/5th grader doing Ancients. It contains some mapwork, vocabulary, and comprehension questions. It is nice (as Kfamily has said) to build independent work in the beginning of the logic stage. I don't think it would be the only thing we would use, especially for later logic stage, but I do like it.

 

I am really digging it because it means that I don't have to completely write the course for one of my three kids! It is going to save me some significant work for using Mills as a narrative spine. I will still be filling in all the non-Western stuff, historical fiction, etc. But I think this will be a nice addition for us, and I do think I will buy further guides as they come out. :001_smile:

Edited January 13, 2011 by Asenik

[Kfamily]

I'm so glad you like it.

 

Just a quick note: When I was talking with Memoria Press about the guides. I mentioned which books by D. Mills I owned and she seemed to hint that in the farther off future they would be making a guide and publishing the The Renaissance and Reformation Times and The Middle Ages. I found this interesting since I assumed they wouldn't be publishing these since they do not have them listed in the Highlands Latin School curriculum. The school uses a different book for the middle ages and renaissance. I thought this was good news. I don't know if they actually will get to this, but she suggested they would.

[Avila]

I'm so glad you like it.

 

Just a quick note: When I was talking with Memoria Press about the guides. I mentioned which books by D. Mills I owned and she seemed to hint that in the farther off future they would be making a guide and publishing the The Renaissance and Reformation Times and The Middle Ages. I found this interesting since I assumed they wouldn't be publishing these since they do not have them listed in the Highlands Latin School curriculum. The school uses a different book for the middle ages and renaissance. I thought this was good news. I don't know if they actually will get to this, but she suggested they would.

 

Thanks for bringing it up again. You helped me decide to bite the bullet and give it a shot.

 

I am just sorry, for your sake, that it doesn't include a little more for the older age bracket. I agree with your assessment there. :D

 

I would really like them to do the whole series for Mills, because I use the whole series. It would make my history plans easier. I will have to keep my eye on that.