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Almost teenage daughter won't get out bed in the morning...


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I have heard that this happens A:)

But now it is happening to me!

She's my oldest and will be 13 in Feb.

She's been trending toward sleeping in more and more for a couple of years now, but it's getting so much harder lately. She's awake later at night (in bed, I don't let her stay up), but usually reading or knitting or something. But even if she turns out the light by 9:00 she says she lays in bed awake for a long time. And then she's super groggy when I get her up in the morning for breakfast. That used to be 7:30, now it's more like 8:00 or later (if I let her, she'll stay in bed until 9:00).

 

So what is normal and how do other homeschoolers handle this. I'm well aware that if she "went" to school, she'd have to be up, no options. I remember having to get up at 6:00! (or earlier) to "do" my hair, make up, etc and catch the bus for an hour long ride to school. I hated that, but I survived. :)

But I like the freedom that staying home gives us and I don't want to create conflict where there doesn't need to be.

 

But it messes up our school day if she's not up. Should I rearrange our schedule and just let her get up when she wants? Will this ruin her for life, bad habits, slothfulness, etc. Should I make her get up to instill a strong protestant work ethic:D

 

I should mention that I am a morning person and hate it when people just lay in bed all morning, it is so foreign to me. So I am trying not to make this a personality issue. But I am wondering if it is a legitimate life choice, or does she just need to buck up :)

 

Thanks for all your wisdom

 

Jen

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The exact same thing happened to my daughter (also the oldest) at the same age. She too felt more tired and groggy when she was in bed earlier. When she went to bed around 11pm and got up around 9-10am she felt GREAT!

 

I let her decide for herself...but, she needed to be out of bed by 9-9:30 (within reason) and she still had to deal with the life that went on without her. For example...she'd have to warm up her breakfast or make something really quick herself. She'd have to rush a bit more after waking up. The younger ones that were up earlier were able to sneak in a bit of TV time after chores and such....she used that time to sleep. She also had to do chores more quickly and the other kids were done schoolwork before her (because they started sooner!!!) and she was fine with that! She also had to not be cranky when she HAD to be up earlier for whatever reason.

 

It worked out well for the most part!!!

 

We bought a puppy a few months ago. She wanted the puppy to sleep with her, therefore she handled the night duties. She made that choice on her own...I told her to get me up and she decided there was no point in both of us loosing sleep. She is 14 years old now. She handled the 2am, 4am and 6am outside times. Our dog then started sleeping through the night....but, he was up at 6am for the day. She got up and cared for him. No whining, crying or even a single complaint!! She has handled the situation better than I think I would have AND many adults! He now sleeps in to about 8:30 and she's loving it!!! LOL

 

My point is that it is their body that they need to learn to respect what it needs and to work within the family as well. As long as that total family respect is there I think it is OK.

 

I also read before that teens were the ones (way back when) that cared for the fires at night and were the watchdogs while the young ones and elders slept. Basically, it is in their programming to be up at night.

 

Do what works for your family and your daughter....

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Does she get up and get her stuff done? If she is, I'd let her be.

 

Is she having issues getting to sleep that might be bothering her? If so, maybe something like Valerian or a tea (Zao makes a sleep tea that has valerian in it) would help.

 

I am NOT a morning person. I can easily stay in bed until 9:30 if I could (I did two days ago actually :blushing:). When I am able to wake up, lay for a bit and think about the day, I do MUCH better. If I am woken up before I am ready, watch. out. :cursing: :lol: If I do have the chance to wake up on my own and take my time, once I am up I go full force!! Otherwise it takes me almost an hour to not be groggy and feel like I'm ready to face the day.

 

I'd say on the list of things that she could be doing, this is a non-issue. ;)

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But it messes up our school day if she's not up. Should I rearrange our schedule and just let her get up when she wants? Will this ruin her for life, bad habits, slothfulness, etc. Should I make her get up to instill a strong protestant work ethic:D

 

 

 

Jen

 

I have a friend with two sons, one 17 and one 10. She decided to let the 17 year old sleep on his schedule. It's not his choice to keep these hours. It's just something that happens with teens. Now her 10 year old is beginning to enter this stage. She just lets them sleep and uses her mornings for housework and working out. She says they are all very happy with the arrangement.

 

She also says that when the boys have a morning class or appointment, they DO get up and get moving as needed. But as for a daily thing, she let's them have what their bodies need at this time.

 

I think as we enter this stage of life I am going to give it a try. I have enough stress in my day. I don't need to be chasing around teens yelling about schedules and causing myself and them more stress and aggravation.

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Teenagers do need more sleep, but that doesn't mean they can't have a regular wake-up time.

 

 

We've recently done the following (inspired by Simplicity Parenting) to help our teen girls and it has worked like a charm:

 

1. All electronics (computers, phones, gaming devices and televisions) are turned OFF at 7 pm. Not just asleep--everything is completely off.

 

2. Time leading up to bedtime is spent quietly--having a bath, reading, drawing, etc.

 

3. They are in bed by 8:30, and they are usually asleep very quickly.

 

4. Weekends keep the same schedule.

 

 

The first night was difficult, and they had trouble going to sleep. However, after a day or two, they fell asleep easily. I believe that step 1 was key to their ability to fall asleep. They have been getting up easily at 7:30. I plan to move that back to 7 after a couple more weeks.

 

Keep bedtime regular and the time leading up to bedtime quiet.

Edited by Abigail4476
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That totally sounds like me as a teenager. I rarely went to sleep before midnight. And bedtime was at 8:30, light had to be out by 9. Still I would lay there until midnight bored out of my mind. Wake up time was between 5 and 6 (it depended on my dad's work schedule). Basically everyone in my family but me was an early bird and no one could understand my night owl schedule. So for me, it didn't matter how many days in a row I had to get up at 6 (and it was year round) I wouldn't just "go to sleep by 9" in the evening's. My parents spent the entire time I lived at home trying to turn me into an early bird. No matter how you look at it I just don't function well in the mornings, and I'm sluggish until about 10:30. I get my best work done between 8 pm and midnight. And nothing my parents did could change that.

 

So, as someone who would love to be able to sleep until 9 every morning (I have three early birds so that isn't happening until they either hit teenage status or move out), I would say as long as she's getting her stuff done and being responsible let her have her own schedule.

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I have no advice BUT I do have a funny story. DD30 was the TEEN QUEEN of sleeping late back in the day. When I was pg with dd who is almost 11, dd30 was in college and 18 or 19 y/o.

 

Anyway, it was the end of the pregnancy and the perinatologist was watching me closely so that she could schedule the c-section. DD19 was in college in NH - DH and I were in NJ -- DD19 wanted to come home for the baby's birth.

 

I am talking to her on the phone and I tell her that the c-section is tentatively scheduled for Monday, March 29th at 8:00am. DH and I are really pleased with the date and time and all.

 

:w00t::w00t::w00t:......is her reaction. AND, she asks (in all sincerity as a teenager who LOVES to sleep) 'Can't they do it at 4pm on a Saturday?' (unspoken: 'so I can sleep till 4, then come to the hospital and see you and the baby, and then go out?' :confused:)

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There are studies that show that teens need more sleep than even kids and adults - like 9 1/2+ hours. And also their biological rhythms are set to function later in the morning. Our former school district had a new superintendent who wanted to move the high school start time later and have the elementary kids start earlier to address this. Of course the backwards folks in our town would have none of that so it didn't fly but I really think it's a real issue.

 

If there is not underlying medical issue and if the teen is not staying up really late and them compensating by sleeping in it is probably ok to just let him or her sleep. The family might be happier without a groggy and/or cranky teenager around!

Edited by sibbis
typo
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My 18-yo slept until noon every day over Christmas break and would still be sleeping until noon if he didn't have to be at school by 8:00 a.m. If he were homeschooled, I would probably let him sleep as long as he was getting his work done and was not impacting my/our schedule. He would not be allowed to be cranky to the other kids for their noise while he was sleeping or trying to do his work, but if he would rather get up at noon and work until midnight, that would be his choice.

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This.

 

We now start school later.

 

I have friends who just do school in the late afternoons/evenings because the entire family are night owls.

 

We can't function doing afternoon/evening school, BUT, we do start school later for now. There may come a time when that changes.

 

Dawn

 

There are studies that show that teens need more sleep than even kids and adults - like 9 1/2+ hours. And also their biological rhythms are set to function later in the morning. Our former school district had a new superintendent who wanted to move the high school start time later and have the elementary kids start earlier to address this. Of course the backwards folks in our town would have none of that so it didn't fly but I really think it a real issue.

 

If there is not underlying medical issue and if the teen is not staying up really late and them compensating by sleeping in it is probably ok to just let him or her sleep. The family might be happier without a groggy and/or cranky teenager around!

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Does she get up and get her stuff done? If she is, I'd let her be.

 

 

 

This. I read somewhere where teens' body clocks actually reverse, making them want to stay up later and sleep later. I think the very early morning classes is a huge reason why many kids don't do well in school. Appreciate that you don't have to follow that ps schedule, and let your daughter do what's best for her. It'll pass (eventually.) :001_smile:

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You'll get very strong differing opinions on this one!

 

My kids sleep late and I'm talking about noon and 1:00pm. It's just the way they are. We school in the afternoons, and if I can't help them, they are responsible for doing their work independently. It doesn't happen often. My school classes will start again next week. There are two days that I'll be leaving the house at 12:30pm. They have the choice to wake early if they want me to sit with them or they'll have to work independently and be finished by the time I get home from school. We'll see what they do. :)

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I'm 36 years old and still sleep like a teen. Regardless of what time I go to bed, I can expect to be up for 2-3 hours trying to fall asleep. I do my best to get out of bed by 8am but it more often 8:30am before I can drag myself out of bed. All of my kids are awake before me; daddy tells them to be quiet and not disturb me if he has to leave before I'm up.

 

On days that I do have to wake up early to be somewhere, it could be hours before I'm not groggy and yawning...and I'm tired all day only to spend hours staring at the ceiling at bedtime. I've found that I sleep best between 5am and 8am.

 

If I try to take a nap during the day, it takes 30-60 minutes to fall asleep and then I'm out cold for three hours. Because it pretty much kills my whole day, I do my very best to not take a nap.

 

Occasionally, I'm so exhausted I'll pass out while nursing, watching TV, or reading. That only happens if I'm regularly forcing myself to get up early; I'm that tired and groggy.

 

Being a night person, I'd say let her sleep.

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Ours are all woken up at 6:45 (which is later than they get up if they went to ps). If you are not down to breakfast by 7:15, you are clearly in need of more sleep. Therefore, you stay in bed all day (with a quick brfeakfast/lunch/dinner break), perhaps with a book if I'm feeling nice (but definitely no electronics/or an excess of books), and then in bed with lights out right after dinner. That particular school day is made up on Saturday.

 

We have had a couple of issues, but this seems to have done the trick!

 

Jeri

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This is one of the perks of home schooling--set the schedule to what works best. My kids sleep until 8:00--the elementary school bus has already come and gone by then. Why should I get them up earlier? When they are awake and feeling good, they will learn better. If they need to sleep later when they are teens, why not? Adjust the schedule to suit their needs. When they need to be up early for something, they can do it. But I don't see why we need to do that on a daily basis.

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Thanks for the feedback -

I am leaning toward just letting her sleep in, but it helps to have other ideas/options presented.

Actually, I thought more people would be on the side of making her get up and I wanted to hear the argument for that side of things...

 

thanks again,

Jen

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Actually, I thought more people would be on the side of making her get up and I wanted to hear the argument for that side of things...

My mom used to come in on Saturdays and wake me up (I went to PS so I HAD to get up in the mornings for school). I. hated. it.

 

If you want a happy teenager, I'd let her be on this issue. ;) Like I mentioned before, as long as she is getting up and doing what she needs to do, don't make it a big issue.

 

This is also a great way for her to learn to listen to her body. ;)

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My DD is only 10 right now and this might change but right now she is required to be up by 7, even though she would prefer to sleep in. The mean non morning person mom sleeps until 8, so that means she gets up by alarm clock and gets her own breakfast and sits down to do her first independent work before I even crawl out of bed. Why would I do this you might ask? My DD's brain goes to complete mush by 2pm. If she isn't done school before then, an assignment that would have taken 15 minutes in the morning takes over an hour. With her gymnastics schedule, school cannot go on into the late afternoon/evening, so it has to be done. If your daughter can focus and get her work done in a reasonable fashion, then let her sleep. If she has a hard time getting her work done before other commitments occur, then wake her up.

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I would experiment with setting a reasonable time that works for your school and letting her sleep in as long as she wants past that. Whatever amount she exceeds will be the amount she has to go to bed earlier. No reading, no knitting. Lights out.

 

Also, you do know that teens need 10 hours of sleep at night, right? There have been some recent findings on that. She needs her sleep very much. She also needs to learn how to regulate herself so she gets enough *and* gets up early enough.

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I wouldn't worry about instilling a work ethic. I have always preferred to sleep as late as possible, even until noon if I could. I still do. I have also served on active duty in the Army, getting up at ridiculous hours when I had to. Some people just function better being up later at night and sleeping later in the day. After the Army I went to college and became a nurse and enjoyed working the night shift for many years.

I'm married to a morning person. We have come to an agreement- he doesn't try to wake me up in the morning and I don't kill him in his sleep.

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From stuff I've been reading lately, it seems the prime time for serotonin production is the two hours after sunrise, so that is a good time for a girl in particular to be asleep. Any left over serotonin at the end of the day is converted to melatonin which helps us get to sleep. So waking her up early would probably deprive her of some serotonin, which will sooner or later lead to a grumpy kid who has run out of serotonin long before bed time and will have trouble getting to sleep. I know I find that myself. My hubby thinks I'm nuts, but the more sleep deprived I am (and I know I really notice it in myself if I don't get to sleep a significant amount of time past sunrise) the later I'll be able to get to sleep that night.

 

Biochemistry is so much fun.

 

 

Rosie

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I should mention that I am a morning person and hate it when people just lay in bed all morning, it is so foreign to me. So I am trying not to make this a personality issue. But I am wondering if it is a legitimate life choice, or does she just need to buck up

 

It's a matter of opinion, of course. My dd trended that way, too at the same age. I do let her sleep later than I would really like (8:30), but I'm not going to let her sleep as long as she wishes. I also don't want to encourage the trend of stay-up-till-1-am-and-then-sleep-till-noon. It leads to nothing getting accomplished. IMO - buck up.

 

Dh and I are also early risers. I do think late sleepers "night owls" can be a legitimate life choice, but it's not going to be expressed while I'm in charge. :D DD would not be willing to still be slogging through math at 5:30pm - and I wouldn't be willing to sit there and help her - so it's just not an option. We need to get our work for the day (be it homeschool work or other) accomplished toward the front half of the day, so we can all enjoy ourselves more in the late afternoon and evening.

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It's a matter of opinion, of course. My dd trended that way, too at the same age. I do let her sleep later than I would really like (8:30), but I'm not going to let her sleep as long as she wishes. I also don't want to encourage the trend of stay-up-till-1-am-and-then-sleep-till-noon. It leads to nothing getting accomplished. IMO - buck up.

 

Dh and I are also early risers. I do think late sleepers "night owls" can be a legitimate life choice, but it's not going to be expressed while I'm in charge. :D DD would not be willing to still be slogging through math at 5:30pm - and I wouldn't be willing to sit there and help her - so it's just not an option. We need to get our work for the day (be it homeschool work or other) accomplished toward the front half of the day, so we can all enjoy ourselves more in the late afternoon and evening.

:iagree:

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Teenagers do need more sleep, but that doesn't mean they can't have a regular wake-up time.

 

 

We've recently done the following (inspired by Simplicity Parenting) to help our teen girls and it has worked like a charm:

 

1. All electronics (computers, phones, gaming devices and televisions) are turned OFF at 7 pm. Not just asleep--everything is completely off.

 

2. Time leading up to bedtime is spent quietly--having a bath, reading, drawing, etc.

 

3. They are in bed by 8:30, and they are usually asleep very quickly.

 

4. Weekends keep the same schedule.

 

 

The first night was difficult, and they had trouble going to sleep. However, after a day or two, they fell asleep easily. I believe that step 1 was key to their ability to fall asleep. They have been getting up easily at 7:30. I plan to move that back to 7 after a couple more weeks.

 

Keep bedtime regular and the time leading up to bedtime quiet.

 

 

 

:iagree: That's pretty much a footprint for what we do. However, on Friday we will let her stay up late. That's the only day of the week as she can sleep in a bit on Sat. Sunday we attend church.

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There are studies that show that teens need more sleep than even kids and adults - like 9 1/2+ hours. And also their biological rhythms are set to function later in the morning. Our former school district had a new superintendent who wanted to move the high school start time later and have the elementary kids start earlier to address this. Of course the backwards folks in our town would have none of that so it didn't fly but I really think it a real issue.

 

If there is not underlying medical issue and if the teen is not staying up really late and them compensating by sleeping in it is probably ok to just let him or her sleep. The family might be happier without a groggy and/or cranky teenager around!

 

I talked with a sleep doctor recently about "delayed sleep phase disorder" that is common in teens. He recommending just going with the your natural sleep time if you are fortunate enough to be able to do that. It would promote a good, restful night sleep so the teen doesn't have to deal with sleepiness during the day. He said if you have a schedule that doesn't allow the teen to have a later sleep schedule, you can reset their sleep pattern by using a light box.

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Wow, Rosie, great information! I will have to check into that, if it bears out, that would really help me make a good decision. I love scientifically based parenting!

 

Thanks again, for others feedback, as well. It has made me realize that I have been sleeping in a lot later (7:00-7:30:D) lately, thinking that it is just the holidays, but maybe it has something to do with light and the days being so short.

 

More to think about...

 

Jen

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Wow, Rosie, great information! I will have to check into that, if it bears out, that would really help me make a good decision. I love scientifically based parenting!

 

Well I first heard about this in the Mars and Venus guy's health book. I was kind of annoyed really, what does a relationship guru know about health? :lol: And why was I reading the book? :lol::lol: Anyway, he waffles a bit, but it seems to be the key I needed. And I thought it interesting that most of the health issues on the general board here read like a list of low serotonin symptoms... Anyway, if that's what it is, your daughter doesn't want it ;)

 

Rosie

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I have no btdt advice as a parent on this, but when I was teaching, I saw how horrible it was that we had to ask kids to be at school so early when all the science says it's against their natural rhythms. And you could see it happen to really great kids - always on time in 6th grade, then by 8th grade, always late because the parents were scrambling to adjust to this new kid who did not want to get up. I always thought, thank goodness I'll be homeschooling my kids and I won't have to go through that. We'll just adjust our routines and move everything later. I saw that a few people in the thread said that they forced their kids to sleep earlier but unless there's an external reason to do so, that just baffles me. The science says it's not laziness, it's a natural sleep schedule for the majority of teens.

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I experimented with my sleep schedule one summer during high school, and found that I functioned best and was happiest if I got to sleep about 1-2am and woke up about 9am.

 

It did not surprise me at all when I read, several years later, research that said that this sleep pattern seemed to be normal for teens, and that performance and behavior tended to improve school-wide when starting time was pushed back.

 

I think that allowing a teen to sleep in line with their biological rhythm when they're in an environment where school and other responsibilities are not tied to a specific time of day actually encourages a good work ethic, because they're likely to be doing the work with a better attitude. I consider this one of the benefits of homeschooling. Yes, they need to understand that not all "real world" jobs are going to allow that sort of freedom. However, that's a problem that's likely to fix itself in time - Now that I'm not a teen, my sleep time is more like 10pm-7am (plenty interrupted by the baby!). :)

 

That said, limiting electronics and other stimulating activities after a certain time strikes me as not a bad idea.

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The majority of our family consists of night owls - except for ds12, who just has never needed as much sleep in general.

 

I let my kids sleep until they wake up in the morning (unless we need to be somewhere...) and it works just fine for our family. We feel that if they are sleeping, their body must need it, and that is fine with us. My DH works nights, and is home in the mornings/early afternoon with our family - so we do more homeschooling later in the day anyway.

 

I have always thought it was so odd that being a night owl sometimes seems to have a stigma attached to it (lazy, etc.) while being a morning person is the "right" way to be. I felt guilty for years because I have never been a morning person, but would try so hard to act like one. Then I realized - if I get everything done that needs to be done, who cares what time it says on the clock? I feel better at nights, where in the mornings, I can barely function. :rolleyes:

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Coming in late here and haven't read all of the replies but I read a fascinating article about sleep patterns about 2 months ago. It said that teens are biologically programmed to stay up later and sleep in later and actually said it was not cool that schools start so early! LOL It also mentioned how as you become older you are programmed to go to bed early and get up early.

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I let my teen sleep in until 8:30 or 9:00. He is now in college and has to be at the bus at 7:00. He doesn't have any problem getting up. He'd rather not have early classes, but he was able to make the transition.

 

He was allowed to sleep in as long as he was able to get his work done. With him if he slept later than 9:30 it was negatively effected, and he didn't get to work until noon but still wanted to be done by 3 or 4.

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I experimented with my sleep schedule one summer during high school, and found that I functioned best and was happiest if I got to sleep about 1-2am and woke up about 9am.

 

:iagree:

 

I feel so GOOD when I am on that schedule too. Sleeping 2:00-9:00/9:30 has me humming all day. If I have to get up before 8:00, I feel awful all day long. Much worse than if I'd gone to bed at 5:00 and gotten up at 9:00!

 

We're a bunch of night owls (except DH, who gets lovingly tucked in first every night!). My vote is biased - let her sleep! :)

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Well, anecdotal, but...

I let her sleep in until 9:00 this morning. Didn't say anything about her getting up late. She started right in on her math after eating and was happy to report that she passed her Life of Fred bridge on the first try. (this is unusual, it usually takes her 2 or 3 tries) And she said "I think it was because my brain felt so fresh from getting so much sleep!"

How funny is that.

Well, I guess we'll be trying out a new rhythm and seeing how it goes...

 

Thanks again for the conversation.

 

Jen

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I'm married to a morning person. We have come to an agreement- he doesn't try to wake me up in the morning and I don't kill him in his sleep.

 

:lol:

 

I have never stressed the sleep issues with my children as I myself am a nightowl and like to get my morning sleep in too. However, my ds10, who prefers to sleep til 10-10:30ish everyday has started using an alarm clock, on his own, to get up at 7am every morning! He likes to get some tv time in before the babies get up and is usually already fed and working on schoolwork by the time the babies and I are up and moving. Works wonderfully for our family. :)

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Honestly, one of the reasons I homeschool is because I can't fathom any of us trying to function that early in the morning.

 

My younger one goes to preschool and I work two mornings a week, which means we have to be there by 9 am. That is a struggle. My older one, who seems to need to sleep later, often spends the night at my inlaws, where she can sleep till 10 or later. She's only seven.

 

On Christmas morning, she yelled at her sister, at 10 am, to be quiet because she was still sleeping, and she would see Santa's presents later.

 

It's a struggle, because I want them done to have the afternoons to play and do activities. Right now, we can somewhat make it work, but as she gets older, it may be more challenging. I'd like us to be sitting down to work by 9:30 or so, but honestly, it's a huge struggle for ME too.

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It's a matter of opinion, of course. My dd trended that way, too at the same age. I do let her sleep later than I would really like (8:30), but I'm not going to let her sleep as long as she wishes. I also don't want to encourage the trend of stay-up-till-1-am-and-then-sleep-till-noon. It leads to nothing getting accomplished. IMO - buck up.

 

Dh and I are also early risers. I do think late sleepers "night owls" can be a legitimate life choice, but it's not going to be expressed while I'm in charge. :D DD would not be willing to still be slogging through math at 5:30pm - and I wouldn't be willing to sit there and help her - so it's just not an option. We need to get our work for the day (be it homeschool work or other) accomplished toward the front half of the day, so we can all enjoy ourselves more in the late afternoon and evening.

 

Yup, that is life here too.

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I saw that a few people in the thread said that they forced their kids to sleep earlier but unless there's an external reason to do so, that just baffles me. The science says it's not laziness, it's a natural sleep schedule for the majority of teens.

 

I don't know HOW anyone can force someone else to sleep at times that they just can't anyway - if I send dd14 to bed at 9pm, she'll just lay there and stare at the dark for hours..she can NOT fall asleep that early.

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Honestly, one of the reasons I homeschool is because I can't fathom any of us trying to function that early in the morning.

No kidding! I'm not a particularly late sleeper, but I can't imagine any of us would be happy right now if I had to get up at 5:30-6 to get DS breakfasted and ready for the 7am bus!

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