runningirl71 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hi! I am moving into new waters having a son finishing up his 7th grade year and going into 8th! Thinking about homeschooling in highschool intimidates me a little! Yes, I know I don't have a highschooler yet, but feel I need to be preparing (however informal) now, at least in my mind! My son is a very outgoing young man, deep thinker, loves to read, loves to learn. He has expressed real interest in becoming a lawyer in the future. Yes, I know, kids change their minds when it comes to careers, but he has stuck with this for a couple years now. I am thinking, as he is only one school year away from highschool, that I need to prepare a curriculum for him that will include things, such as public speaking, that will help him if he chooses this career path. One of my good friends is a lawyer and has told me he needs to do a lot of public speaking through speech and debate classes, speech team, participating in mock trials, etc during his highschool years. Plus, I know that highschool is the time to focus on the classical stage of Rhetoric. My question is: How do I do this??? We live in small town USA. There is a small coop here that meets once a week, but it isn't classically focused. The public schools are not open to taking homeschool students for 1 or 2 classes. DH thinks we need to put him in ps to take advantage of rhetoric type classes/clubs. I understand this and yet really struggle with it! I feel like I would be giving up so much in regards to his education in other areas. And, he is so extroverted, I'm afraid the social aspect of ps would be distracting to him. I could be wrong though. He WANTS to go to school, he enjoys interacting with others and being out of the house. I really wish I could accomodate his needs more, but with two other kiddoes at home, I can't just focus on him. Any thoughts/suggestions from those who have BTDT? Sorry so long! :) PS. I'm editing this to add that I'm thinking about this so much right now b/c if we decide to put him in school, it would be starting in 8th grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 I haven't quite BTDT yet, but i can offer what we are doing :-) We started a small speech class at a co-op in my house. If you can start one w/ the co-op there, that would be great. This year we used Beginning Public Speaking by Communicators for Christ. Even my atheist friends like the incremental approach it uses ;) Is the co-op just a once a week thing? I'm not a strictly classical kinda gal, but if i could make one day a week work for me, I'd rather sacrifice one day from classical studies than an entire education to public school :( My almost 14yos is very social and outgoing too: I homeschool cuz i can't stand the negative social atmosphere in the public schools: i think it is those social skills learned and modeled in public school that kinda give us the NEED for more lawyers!! Putting him in school and having him attend extra curriculuar events will FORCE you to focus on him on a daily basis -- he will have a pretty packed schedule, tests he'll need to study for, homework, travel to competitions and tournaments, going early and staying late....and it will be on their timetable, not yours. If that's something you might find beneficial, then that's certainly an option. i have 5 kiddos, so I know what you mean about evening out the focus. another option you might consider is theater --that offers a lot of option to speak confidently, rehearse that which you need to know, and might even include impromptu stuff. you can also go ahead and focus on gvt and laws now --public school won't spend too much time on that!! Get him used to attending some local city/county meetings. Speak w/ some local attorneys about talking to your son. Work on following current events stories: why are X people being prosecuted for [whatever specific] issues? where do you find info on those issues from a legal standpoint? writing and research are another side to this: he needs to be able to put his thoughts into an organized format. writing research papers on current events or historical legal decisions can be beneficial. next year we will be doing a lot of speaking projects w/ 4-H. i would encourage you to check w/ your local extension office and see if there's a club nearby that offers GOOD leadership and mentoring to new members: deciding "what constitutes a project" and how to keep record books can be kinda intimidating. But the good thing is that 4-H really promotes public speaking!! You can attend local, county, district, state, and national competitions, and they all have some sort of speaking component. http://www.ohio4h.org/product/files/4H_970R.pdf http://www.utextension.utk.edu/4H/projects/communication.htm http://agrilifebookstore.org/tmppdfs/viewpdf_539.pdf?CFID=1342007&CFTOKEN=821ba89e4188aa29-6E8594BE-7E93-35CB-857AEB510D4A5714&jsessionid=8e308f3152807d364352 Another option is to check out the homeschool debate teams. The one i know of is Christian, but they are pretty darn competitive. http://www.ncfca.org/ Don't forget: he's gonna have to attend YEARS in college to become an attorney. he will have a lot of opportunity for debating and mock trials there. Lots of kids become attorneys w/o attending a host of attorney-related events in high school. many colleges will absolutely warn you to NOT get too bogged down in career-specific training and instead send them a well-educated student that can handle a variety of subjects. finally, I'd suggest contacting a couple colleges that you think he might attend to get his degree. Ask them what a homeschooler can do to best prepare to enter that course of study at their college. I'm sure your good friend has some excellent idea for what a growing attorney will find useful, but unless I'm wrong your friend won't be the one directly educating your ds [altho I think having them involved on a regular basis would be an EXCELLENT idea!!!] good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningirl71 Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 We started a small speech class at a co-op in my house. If you can start one w/ the co-op there, that would be great. This year we used Beginning Public Speaking by Communicators for Christ. Even my atheist friends like the incremental approach it uses ;) This sounds like a great idea, if others are willing to do it in the co op. Is the co-op just a once a week thing? I'm not a strictly classical kinda gal, but if i could make one day a week work for me, I'd rather sacrifice one day from classical studies than an entire education to public school :(Yes, it is just once a week. I know that if we got involved, it would probably work out, but it has taken two years just to be invited to attend their classes! They are an exclusive group, which I have problems with, but would have to set my ideals aside if I felt it the best route to go. Forest started attending one class there and none of the kids even acknowledged him for 3 weeks! And, he is one that can easily fit in to any social group! I'm currently the coordinator for an inclusive homeschool group, but it is field trips only and I have the oldest children in that group. I homeschool cuz i can't stand the negative social atmosphere in the public schools: i think it is those social skills learned and modeled in public school that kinda give us the NEED for more lawyers!!LOL! I'm sure your are right on that one. I haven't fully checked out our ps here. I've heard good and bad like with any school. you can also go ahead and focus on gvt and laws now --public school won't spend too much time on that!!Get him used to attending some local city/county meetings. Speak w/ some local attorneys about talking to your son. Work on following current events stories: why are X people being prosecuted for [whatever specific] issues? where do you find info on those issues from a legal standpoint? These are excellent suggestions. I feel overwhelmed! How do you do it with 5???:confused: writing and research are another side to this: he needs to be able to put his thoughts into an organized format. writing research papers on current events or historical legal decisions can be beneficial.I know this and writing is very important to me. I was going to do CW with my kids next year, but if we're involved with the coop, this is one area they focus on and I've never been thrilled with their choice of writing programs. They are using Writeshop right now. At first glance, I don't really care for it, but maybe it is a fine program. Maybe I just need to let go of my ideals! :) next year we will be doing a lot of speaking projects w/ 4-H.We do have 4H in this area and I think it is a pretty good program. We have several state univ. involved in the program from what I've read. Don't forget: he's gonna have to attend YEARS in college to become an attorney. he will have a lot of opportunity for debating and mock trials there.Point taken. Maybe I worry too much about ruining my child! I'm sure your good friend has some excellent idea for what a growing attorney will find useful, but unless I'm wrong your friend won't be the one directly educating your ds [altho I think having them involved on a regular basis would be an EXCELLENT idea!!!]No, she won't be involved directly as she lives in another state. But between her and a cousin who is a lawyer, I think Forest will have a pretty good shot at an internship. My friend said she would be willing to let him come and "shadow" her at work sometime. Thanks Peek a Boo for your insight. I guess I just feel overwhelmed with responsibility. I see so many homeschool Moms in our area who are just miserable homeschooling, but aren't willing to give it up. I see relationships being hurt between parent and child for the sake of their "education" but what value is that, if you've broken your relationship with your child? And, it doesn't help when parents and friends alike think he should be in school, including his father. But, dh does see the value in homeschooling (he did it for a year while I went to school) and will support me no matter what I choose. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Is there a Toastmasters club in your area??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Also check to see if your YMCA has a youth & government program. It incorporates public speaking/debate with role-playing government procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 www.ncfca.org Kids learn ten types of speeches, learn to prepare oral arguments, present a case, support it with logic and evidence, how to cross examine, and how to 'think on their feet' for any debate. The first year is hard 'cause kids are learning the format...and how to talk for more than 3 minutes ! :) The second year, they begin to really get a handle on the theory, winsome presentation skills, and thinking processes. Local groups can easily be formed; if you don't have one in your area, talk to the director for your area, get some training (Communicators for Christ) or have some former debaters come do some classes for you, then begin some practice tournaments to hone skills. It really really is worth it! Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 I strongly second looking into Communicators for Christ http://www.communicatorsforchrist.com as well as NCFCA. Both are Christian homeschool groups. Communicators for Christ (CFC) offers summer camps and conferences throughout the year to train in public speaking and debate. If there isn't a club near you, they would be extremely helpful in getting one started. I'm in a smallish big city and we had no formal speech and debate groups until one mom stepped up about 4 years ago to start one. I am now coaching debate and have three kids on the team. Really, regardless of what profession your ds pursues, his public speaking skills will be a huge asset. You might also check some area private schools. Several of the public high schools in our area are involved in Model United Nations (or something along that name) which involved some research and informal debating. A friend of mine put together a Young Toastmaster group for introductory public speaking. Another couple of homeschooled high schoolers are dual-enrolled at our local community college and particpate on their (very good) speech and debate team, garnering state and national titles. One other idea -- many Florida counties offer a teen court. I'm not sure of all the details, but I *think* teens apply to the program and, if selected, act as counsel for real, but minor infractions. Again, not sure of the details, but perhaps you could check with your county and see if such a program exists. Hope that gets you started! Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Yes, it is just once a week. I know that if we got involved, it would probably work out, but it has taken two years just to be invited to attend their classes! They are an exclusive group, which I have problems with, but would have to set my ideals aside if I felt it the best route to go. Forest started attending one class there and none of the kids even acknowledged him for 3 weeks! And, he is one that can easily fit in to any social group! I'm currently the coordinator for an inclusive homeschool group, but it is field trips only and I have the oldest children in that group. .... These are excellent suggestions. I feel overwhelmed! How do you do it with 5???:confused: .............. I was going to do CW with my kids next year, but ...They are using Writeshop right now. I see so many homeschool Moms in our area who are just miserable homeschooling, but aren't willing to give it up. I see relationships being hurt between parent and child for the sake of their "education" but what value is that, if you've broken your relationship with your child? yeah, i know the frustrations w/ dealing w/ an exclusive co-op ---as well as the frustrations dealing w/ an INclusive one, hee hee. Are you allowed to opt out of the co-op classes that don't fit your style? i like and use WriteShop, but if you've already got something you're happy with, I wouldn't encourage you to switch. as far as focussing on him.... how old are your other kiddos? I've really had to go ahead and let some things "slide" so the most important parts can be taken care of. I set only a couple of MUST-DO goals for the year, and others that won't bother me if we don't meet them entirely. For next year, my oldest will have a lot of focus on documentation and record keeping. My 2d ds [will be 6th grade] is needing more work on penmanship and oral language stuff/enunciation, so he'll be doing more read alouds to his younger brother [will be 2d grade] in my earshot. My 2d grader needs to become more fluent in his reading, so after listening to older brother, they'll switch :) But in general, I don't worry about the younger grades too much at first. they DO get some work, but nothing as stringent as what some do. i also have a 4yo [kinda K next year] and a 2yo [into everything, I'm sure]. PBS is fine for the 4yo a couple hours, and I have each of the older 3 take a 20-minute turn playing w/ the 2yo. There are other strategies we use for keeping little kids occupied and including everyone. how old are yours? I'm hoping that the extra effort to focus on oldest and get him schooling well will have a good trickle down effect on the rest. So far, I've been pleased with the set up of them helping each other. oh yeah; you don't necessarily have to do everything a 4-H club does: some clubs are project-specific, others will help you formulate your own project. We are turning our household co-op into a 4-H club since we were doing robotics, knitting, public speaking, Gvt, and science anyway, lol. In TX, you just need 5 kids ages 9 and older to charter your own club. but definitely contact some prospective colleges and wait patiently for their response. My oldest is wanting to pursue culinary stuff, so we're waiting to hear from some colleges in the Dallas area. I forgot about dual enrollment --that could be a goldmine of an opportunity! I didn't know about the YMCA Youth and Gvt --i might have to check that out..... I do understand what you are saying about the parent-child relationship being strained. it does go the other way too tho, so be careful of missing out on the relationship no matter which direction you choose :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Katia Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 For my ds, I enrolled him in the cc speech class. It worked very well for him. For my dd, I called around to the different clubs in town (ie: Rotary Club, Lions Club, Kiwanis Club, etc.) and asked them if my dd could do a presentation for them during one of their meetings. They all have a presentation or entertainment time scheduled, so they looked at their calendars and scheduled her in. For some, she prepared a presentation about Shakespeare and quoted a LOT of his plays from memory. At others, she talked about her summer study-abroad trip to England. They all loved it and all asked her to come back and present again. This was a totally strange environment, unknown people, but yet a very supportive atmosphere. It was a good place to start, and it opened her vision to how others in the community support and volunteer to help in the wider community. Very good experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningirl71 Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 as far as focussing on him.... how old are your other kiddos? My kids are 12, 10, and 2. :) Thanks to all who replied and gave great suggestions. I went and looked up our local YMCA's website and found that they have student government clubs. They also have a teen court, but it said it was for students in the local highschools. I would have to call to see if they would accept homeschoolers. There was also another club for teens, but I can't think of what is was at the moment. So, am excited about these local opportunites! I looked up the websites for other orgs/clubs, but nothing was local. We would have to travel an hour away or I would have to start it up myself. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly IN Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 There is a national Debate and public speaking club for homeschoolers. Here is the website: http://www.ncfca.org/speech They only accept full time homeschoolers. I have seen these kids in action. Very respectful group of kids. I have been very impressed by this club. This is national so every state should have their own clubs at state level then they compete (to my knowledge) at a national level once a year. Hope this helps Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Just to clarify: Yes, NCFCA is for full-time homeschoolers. Now that so many areas have students in co-op classes, one or two day a week "cottage schools" and community colleges, the "rule of thumb" is that the student must be taking 51% of his education from home (not college) which can include online or co-op instruction received from others but still under the responsibility of the parent. Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet in WA Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Our sons took speech courses at our community college. Many homeschoolers have had good experiences with Toastmasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra in NC Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Toastmasters is for adults, but Gavel Clubs use the same materials/same format. We started a Gavel Club in Charlotte several years ago. http://www.freewebs.com/charlottegavelclubs/startagavelclub.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet in WA Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Toastmasters is for adults, but Gavel Clubs use the same materials/same format. We started a Gavel Club in Charlotte several years ago. http://www.freewebs.com/charlottegavelclubs/startagavelclub.htm Thanks for that information. I've never heard homeschoolers use the term "Gavel Club" -- they just say "Toastmasters". I've always wondered if their students were just joining an adult group (and maybe some are?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisN in NY Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I've got some materials from Art of Eloquence, but I have to admit I haven't had much chance to look seriously at them (meaning enough to give you an overview). These are written by a homeschool mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 My middle and high school student have had an excellent experience in a Toastmaster's Gavel Club. In addition to the public speaking experience, it gives the students experience in leadership. They have multiple leadership positions and frequent re-elections, so everyone gets a chance at it. I can't speak highly enough of it. To start one, you need to get an adult sponsor from an adult Toastmaster's Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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