TravelingChris Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I teach a US Government class. One of my students, a senior, turned in a paper with no bibliography and no in paper sources. I am going to give the paper back to him and make him redo it properly but I suspect he only had one source (I had gone over how you need more than one source and about plagiarism). I had stated you need to have a bibliography. I am asking about how much to take off since I haven't decided on a grade for the paper yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keniki Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 You might want to google some grading rubrics. This is the first one I came up with, but there are many more out there. This one gives 15% of the grade to sources. http://deoracle.org/learning-objects/sample-grading-rubric-for-term-papers-essays.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 This is a more difficult question if the students were not previously given a rubric. Some teachers would think the quality of a paper is entirely based on the quality of research, and if it were not properly researched, then whatever is written afterward is of almost no value. If I hadn't previously handed out rubrics, I think I would now do so, and give everyone time to redo the papers without being penalized. It will be up to you how much value you place on research and how much you place on the writing. And if there is time, bringing a laptop to class, and showing students how to log on and use the local library's online research resources would be helpful. I've just this week figured out to use some of my library's online resources :-0 Also a map of the library with certain resource materials highlighted would help. I just found 2 sets of encyclopedias tucked away in a corner of my library that FOUR different staff members previously told me that they didn't have :-0 I believe that good research is critical, but I have been really struggling to learn how to do it. I can't imagine how much harder it would be for a busy young person to learn this skill. I don't even know yet, what I don't know :-0 I'm trying to find a checklist of research resources that I should know how to use and then spend a year pestering people to show me how to find them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well I looked at another rubric and gave him a C. In fact, I think that is very generous. I am giving him a chance to up his grade but it won't be to an A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 If it was the first paper of this nature that he had ever written, then I'd be inclined towards the C. If this is not, and he's been forewarned and KNOWS the expectations, I would probably give it an F. I'm strict though because when I was teaching in private school, I felt that many kids were absolutely determined to do virtually nothing of substance and expect a passing grade. I was tough from the beginning and nipped that behavior in the bud. But, again, a lot depends on the student's experiences in research writing prior to arriving at your class. I think that the C is probably generous but could very well be appropriate to. Go with your instincts. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie in MN Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 If I hadn't previously handed out rubrics, I think I would now do so, and give everyone time to redo the papers without being penalized. I like that idea. Maybe the whole concept is new to some of the students and a little more time needs to be spent on its importance, such as a class day or a week. My older dd needed *years* on this topic. She just so wanted to be correct and do things properly that she basically was trying to memorize the encyclopedia and reproduce it from memory, and somehow that was not plagiarism to her. It wasn't done in the sense of cheating, but simply the sense of trying to produce what the teacher wanted. Coming up with her own idea was so foreign to her that I'm not sure my years of homeschooling her in high school ever accomplished that. Now I'm not sure this young man has as big a problem as that, but it might be that he needs more instruction on the issue than other children might need. My youngest is the opposite -- can come up with his own ideas like wildfire and strays way off the exact facts sometimes! Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I would've given an "incomplete" with a note saying that the paper as written deserved an "F" but I was giving the student the chance to re-do it. Then, I would give the final paper a "C" or "D" (depending on what it looked like) with a note of what it would have earned had it been done properly the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 For a senior, I'd dish out some tough love...or maybe "tough example" since this isn't your own child. You were clear about expectations. That sort of thing won't fly at college and turning in something like that at my son's cc could result in disciplinary action; especially if there's the smallest hint of plagiarism which, IMO, is an inherent danger in using a single source. I agree with you that giving a C is being generous on your part. I'd have given an F with option of a do-over. I'd probably have been more understanding with a younger student, but not a senior. I'm a softie at heart, but after the things I've heard from ds about the enforcement of assignment guidelines in college, I think you are right to be concerned. Crimson Wife's suggestion is less harsh than mine and I like it. I'm archiving this thread for reference because I may return to co-op teaching at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distancia Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Well I looked at another rubric and gave him a C. In fact, I think that is very generous. I am giving him a chance to up his grade but it won't be to an A. Either he will learn from this experience (in more ways than one), or he won't. That sort of thing won't fly at college...a C is being generous on your part. I'd have given an F with option of a do-over. I'd probably have been more understanding with a younger student, but not a senior. True fact: my DD (high school senior) took an online college Spanish course for credit last summer. She did NOT open the professor's email prior to one of the exams, and missed a very important one-line instruction about the exam: "translate all sentences into present tense". My DD translated all the sentences--perfectly-- into the past tense. Needless to say, she received an F for the exam. Boy, did she learn from that experience! Edited January 6, 2011 by distancia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Yes, he is going to college. Honestly, I never thought about including a rubric before because it is not a literature or writing class. I will look for one that would be appropriate for the other writing assignment I have for the next semester- a book report on a book about economics, finances, business, etc. I teach government for one semester and economics the second. He is a senior but he is going to a college where hardly any writing is required, particularly if you major in science, which he intends to do. I did include notes about exactly what was lacking in the paper. The paper was well written for what it was- just not what I asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullia Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It makes sense to me that you wouldn't hand out a rubric since this wasn't an English or Composition class. But, I've found that when teaching co-op classes it's helpful to be more than clear about expectations, and even then there are always students who don't follow instructions either because they're not motivated or weren't as well prepared academically as I'd been led to believe. Even if he won't be doing a lot of writing in college, he still needs to understand that unless he's asked to write an opinion essay (fairly rare in college from what I've been able to glean) or a reaction paper to a particular work of literature (somewhat more likely) he will be expected to include multiple sources and follow other guidelines too. But, if the college requires very little writing, he'll probably skate by. Even so, I wonder what happens if/when the students from that college enter grad school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 What Martha said....an not only that, but future employers want their employees to be in the habit of documenting sources. It does not do my dad any good to have his office manager hand him a report stating that she thinks they'd save money if they went with a, b, or c vendor if she doesn't have the presence of mind to include documentation to prove it and websites or literature he can look at in order to make his final decision. It's just good practice to get in the habit of documenting even if the student won't have to produce it in bibliographic form later on....it's a mind set that is important to emphasize. Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't know if I would be that hard, even ds in college was given a paper back (B-) in an upper level Lit. class and given direction and a chance to improve it. He learned from the experience, and really appreciated the professor's input AND appreciated that it wasn't heavy handed. Now, if you were to do that and then not get the paper back corrected, then that would be another story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 When I was in high school, I did not have time to meet the requirements of all the adults in my life. I had to pick and choose who I was going to disappoint. It was very difficult when adults took it personally when I didn't make their project a priority over that of another adult's. And on top of that I was given projects without being given the tools to complete them. I would muck my way through my projects, trying to guess what was best to do, and what would bring the least anger at me, if I skipped, often guessing wrong, and knowing that no matter what, I was going to be told I was being "bad". It was never about me. It was all about them, as they fought over my attention. And it was always someone else's responsibility to teach me the tools. All each adult was supposed to do was set the expectations, and then evaluate my obedience to their impossible demands. For many students, high school is a sad and confusing time. A rubric goes a long way, in at least letting a student know exactly what the punishment will be, for each corner cut, instead of having to guess, when time gets too crunched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhondabee Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 When I was in high school, I did not have time to meet the requirements of all the adults in my life. I had to pick and choose who I was going to disappoint. It was very difficult when adults took it personally when I didn't make their project a priority over that of another adult's. And on top of that I was given projects without being given the tools to complete them. I would muck my way through my projects, trying to guess what was best to do, and what would bring the least anger at me, if I skipped, often guessing wrong, and knowing that no matter what, I was going to be told I was being "bad". It was never about me. It was all about them, as they fought over my attention. And it was always someone else's responsibility to teach me the tools. All each adult was supposed to do was set the expectations, and then evaluate my obedience to their impossible demands. For many students, high school is a sad and confusing time. A rubric goes a long way, in at least letting a student know exactly what the punishment will be, for each corner cut, instead of having to guess, when time gets too crunched. Hunter, Sorry to detour from the original intent of the thread, but I'm so glad you posted this. I think you nailed my DS's experiences perfectly. Thank you for giving me a glimpse into their world. You've given me much food for thought this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keniki Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 A rubric goes a long way, in at least letting a student know exactly what the punishment will be, for each corner cut, instead of having to guess, when time gets too crunched. :iagree: Whether this is an English class, a government class or a science class, knowing how the grade is going to be calculated is helpful to any student. In the future, you might want to come up with a rubric for the paper, but also for the entire class. I realize your question is only how to figure the grade for the paper, but it would probably be helpful to your students to know how much of the final grade is resting on that paper and how much is figured otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thank you, I'm glad I read your post this morning. When I was in high school, I did not have time to meet the requirements of all the adults in my life. I had to pick and choose who I was going to disappoint. It was very difficult when adults took it personally when I didn't make their project a priority over that of another adult's. And on top of that I was given projects without being given the tools to complete them. I would muck my way through my projects, trying to guess what was best to do, and what would bring the least anger at me, if I skipped, often guessing wrong, and knowing that no matter what, I was going to be told I was being "bad". It was never about me. It was all about them, as they fought over my attention. And it was always someone else's responsibility to teach me the tools. All each adult was supposed to do was set the expectations, and then evaluate my obedience to their impossible demands. For many students, high school is a sad and confusing time. A rubric goes a long way, in at least letting a student know exactly what the punishment will be, for each corner cut, instead of having to guess, when time gets too crunched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan C. Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thank you Hunter!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Something I learned recently. Doing your best STOPS when it becomes painful, rather than being where it starts. When we are pushing ourselves so hard that we are in distress, we are practicing self-neglect. All forms of neglect are "bad" including and maybe especially self-neglect. Often we dont think someone is doing their best unless we see signs of distress. The bar we set for ourselves and others is often an unhealthy bar. The only way I have learned to say no to people before becoming distressed trying to meet their expectations, is to repeat to myself over and over that self-neglect is badder than dissapointing someone else. I think we need to teach children HOW and WHEN to dissapoint authority figures :-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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