What to do when there is a large discrepency between reading and writing?

[my2boysteacher]

My oldest is in fourth grade, and a visual-spatial learner. He struggled with reading until last year when it finally 'clicked' and now is is a very strong reader. He's reading at between a 5th-6th grade level. However, he can't spell to save his life!

Here was his dictation exercise from WWE today:

 

"It waz a wild contree and littol travld, but the glas cat nuw evree path."

(It was a wild country and little traveled, but the glass cat new every path)

ARGH!

I don't know how much of this is a VSL thing, or something else?

 

I bought AAS 2 after looking at samples on the website based on the spelling rules I think he needs to learn.

The spelling rules, a.k.a. key cards, have been really helpful, but there is still a lot in the book that he already knows.

I'm not sure if I should stick with AAS which would mean spending a lot of time tweaking it to make it fit, or give up and acknowledge he's never going to be a good speller.

 

In the past I've tried Sequential Spelling, A reason for Spelling, Spellwell.....

This year, first semester I created my own spelling program based on what I learned from reading books on how to help VSLs. (word families, air writing, having him spell the words forward and backward, etc)

Nothing sticks!

Are there some kids who just never get it? :confused:

[robsiew]

We use AAS here. My suggestion would be to cruise through the things he knows, but to stick with AAS. The lower couple of levels are pretty "easy", but in my opinion Level 3 will get a bit more challenging. It's only gotten better as we've gone along. Since he struggles so with spelling it might not be too bad to have things be a little "easier" for him up front to gain some confidence. Also... I wouldn't underestimate the power of AAS. Even though the early levels have easy words... there are still important spelling concepts to be learned! :D

 

Oh... and as for your question... I would just move forward in each area (writing/reading) as your child is able. Writing and reading are two different skills. Let your child read and read at the level he is able and provide spelling instruction at the level he is at. Nice thing about being in charge of his schooling... you get to decide in each and every subject where to place your child based on his strengths and weaknesses.

Edited January 4, 2011 by robsiew

[Guest]

I found this book really helpful: Right-Brained Kids in a Left-Brained World, by Jeffrey Freed. He has chapters on teaching math, spelling, reading, and writing to visual-spatial kids (mainly boys), and the techniques are both simple and fascinating. I have used a number of them with my dd, who is not visual-spatial per se, but who definitely is a visual speller with huge visual deficits -- quite a combination, as you can imagine.

 

The other thing that helps a lot, as you saw with reading, is simply time. Many kids who learn differently get that "click" with writing much later, around age twelve or so. This was true with my dd, whose writing was so illegible and her spelling so horrible that she was diagnosed with severe dysgraphia at age eleven. This is around the time I found the Freed book. So I used that and just kept plugging away at spelling, very slowly. Now, at age fourteen, she's completely outgrown the dysgraphia diagnosis -- some of the only remnants are a ridiculously bad pencil grip and a tendency to drop her head nearly on top of the paper as she writes. A slanted desk has helped somewhat with this. But dd now writes stories of up to 28 pages in a few days, with beautiful handwriting and grade-level or above spelling ability. It actually does happen. It's just really really hard to sit back and give them time to develop in their own way.

[my2boysteacher]

Since he struggles so with spelling it might not be too bad to have things be a little "easier" for him up front to gain some confidence. Also... I wouldn't underestimate the power of AAS. Even though the early levels have easy words... there are still important spelling concepts to be learned! :D

QUOTE]

 

Thanks so much, I really needed to hear this right now. :grouphug: I've been working myself up about this, but you are absolutely right that the most important thing is to work slowly and steadily and help him feel good about learning.

[my2boysteacher]

I found this book really helpful: Right-Brained Kids in a Left-Brained World, by Jeffrey Freed. He has chapters on teaching math, spelling, reading, and writing to visual-spatial kids (mainly boys), and the techniques are both simple and fascinating. I have used a number of them with my dd, who is not visual-spatial per se, but who definitely is a visual speller with huge visual deficits -- quite a combination, as you can imagine.

 

The other thing that helps a lot, as you saw with reading, is simply time. Many kids who learn differently get that "click" with writing much later, around age twelve or so. This was true with my dd, whose writing was so illegible and her spelling so horrible that she was diagnosed with severe dysgraphia at age eleven. This is around the time I found the Freed book. So I used that and just kept plugging away at spelling, very slowly. Now, at age fourteen, she's completely outgrown the dysgraphia diagnosis -- some of the only remnants are a ridiculously bad pencil grip and a tendency to drop her head nearly on top of the paper as she writes. A slanted desk has helped somewhat with this. But dd now writes stories of up to 28 pages in a few days, with beautiful handwriting and grade-level or above spelling ability. It actually does happen. It's just really really hard to sit back and give them time to develop in their own way.

 

Thanks for the book suggestion. I can't remeber if that is one I have read or not. I'll reserve it from the library just to be sure.

[Crimson Wife]

FWIW, my brother is highly gifted and a VSL. He always has been an atrocious speller. He'd come home with standardized test scores across the board in the 99th percentile except in spelling, where he'd be something like the 12th percentile. You can tell that he was taught via phonics because the mistakes he makes are logical from a phonetic standpoint. As an adult, he manages to do okay because he has access to spell-check.

 

I would keep plugging away at AAS but realize that he may never be much of a speller.

[ElizabethB]

For students who struggle, spelling gains almost always lag reading gains.

 

Is he good at math? If so, my charts with percentages may help, my students who are good at math really find them helpful:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

You could also have him quickly run through my phonics and spelling lessons, they teach a lot of rules and he could watch them independently.

[PeterPan]

Just as a disclaimer on Karen's comments, she should add that also during that time she did vision therapy (which can radically affect spelling, their visual perception of things, etc.) and lots of horseriding to develop hand strength. I think 5th grade is awfully young to write someone off as a bad speller, and it's naive to think they will merely outgrow it. I would do all the things you can find to do that might help and let them develop as they can. I did all kinds of spelling programs with my dd, often as many as 3 at a time, but vision therapy (which Karen also did with her dd) made a radical change in how my dd viewed words and letters. She would never sound out words prior, despite years of SWR, and after a couple months of VT she was asking me the sounds of letters! Go figure. Now we're going back through and doing AAS together.

 

I think AAS is good, but if you have any visual perception issues or anything that can be corrected, it's good to do that too. http://www.covd.org is where you look for a developmental optometrist to do a more thorough vision evaluation. Indeed my dd is growing out of it, so that I really don't sweat spelling anymore. But it wasn't just maturing and adding years. It's like the VT and other things we've done have ALLOWED her to mature, removed the road blocks that were hindering her. Yes, that's it. We had to remove the roadblocks.

[EKS]

"It waz a wild contree and littol travld, but the glas cat nuw evree path."

 

 

This looks like dyslexic spelling to me. Frequently VSL is a nice way of saying the kid has dyslexia. The delayed reading is another clue. Google "stealth dyslexia" and see if applies.

 

AAS helped my dyslexic son with spelling and it would be my first choice (of the programs I've used) with a child with dyslexia. Also, does he know how to type yet? If not, make that a priority. Doing his written work on the computer has helped with my son's spelling immensely.

 

Don't give up! He will improve.

[MerryAtHope]

You'll be amazed at how much progress he can make over time. Really, the errors your son made are fixable with time and understanding. And even though AAS Level 2 has some easy concepts, they are laying the foundation for longer and harder words too. When my son was just starting level 3, one day he spelled the word "emergency" correctly--surprised himself and me too! It wasn't in his spelling, he was writing something and I happened to see it--and about jumped out of my socks! All of the patterns for that word had been learned up through level 2, we just hadn't actually done a word that long.

 

We've done AAS for 2.5 years now (he's in 8th grade) and it's so much easier to read his writing. Mistakes are fewer and farther between. It's worth not giving up!

 

Merry :-)

[my2boysteacher]

For students who struggle, spelling gains almost always lag reading gains.

 

Is he good at math? If so, my charts with percentages may help, my students who are good at math really find them helpful:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

You could also have him quickly run through my phonics and spelling lessons, they teach a lot of rules and he could watch them independently.

 

Yes he is very strong in math. He is also very gifted when it comes to building/constructing things. I don't quite understand the charts you referenced, but I'll look around the rest of the site and see if I can figure it out. Thanks!

[my2boysteacher]

Just as a disclaimer on Karen's comments, she should add that also during that time she did vision therapy (which can radically affect spelling, their visual perception of things, etc.) and lots of horseriding to develop hand strength. I think 5th grade is awfully young to write someone off as a bad speller, and it's naive to think they will merely outgrow it. I would do all the things you can find to do that might help and let them develop as they can. I did all kinds of spelling programs with my dd, often as many as 3 at a time, but vision therapy (which Karen also did with her dd) made a radical change in how my dd viewed words and letters. She would never sound out words prior, despite years of SWR, and after a couple months of VT she was asking me the sounds of letters! Go figure. Now we're going back through and doing AAS together.

 

I think AAS is good, but if you have any visual perception issues or anything that can be corrected, it's good to do that too. www.covd.org is where you look for a developmental optometrist to do a more thorough vision evaluation. Indeed my dd is growing out of it, so that I really don't sweat spelling anymore. But it wasn't just maturing and adding years. It's like the VT and other things we've done have ALLOWED her to mature, removed the road blocks that were hindering her. Yes, that's it. We had to remove the roadblocks.

 

So even if he is a good, solid reader, he could still have a vision perception problem?

[ElizabethB]

My phonics lessons 28 and 29 explain how to use them, it should be much clearer after watching them!

 

Also, my syllable division rules and exercises might help--and, the knowledge that every syllable must have a vowel, the mistake on travld might be helped by realizing that.

 

The syllable division rules and exercises are linked at the end of my how to tutor page along with some spelling rules that should also help.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

[my2boysteacher]

I can't thank you all enough! You have given me so much information study and reflect, and hope where I thought all was lost. :grouphug:

[PeterPan]

So even if he is a good, solid reader, he could still have a vision perception problem?

 

Absolutely. My dd has always been a fabulous reader. That doesn't tell you if their eyes are converging or focusing properly or if they have other issues. A regular optometrist looks for 20/20 vision and screens for the deeper issues. You have to go to a developmental optometrist to get a more thorough exam. http://www.covd.org