AARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH -- what do I do with this child????

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

My dd 3rd grader will NOT ASK FOR HELP. Instead she will sit there quietly getting so frustrated until she is crying uncontrollably :banghead:. HOW do I convince her to ask for help! I am constantly asking her if she needs help and she always says no. I go check on her and she hides her frustration and says she is doing ok until she can not stop crying. :banghead: I am lost. Any advice???

 

A bit of background--- Its mostly in math. We are doing Horizons. She says she likes horizons. I love it. We were doing Singapore before this and she hated singapore so I switched for her (I am very happy with horizons) the content is not to hard for her, though she is challeneged.

[StephanieF]

One thing I do is to ask ds "how are you doing that one" or show me how you are going to approach that". He will often say he doesn't need help when he clearly does but he will open up if I ask a question.

 

I also stress that there are often many ways of approaching a question so "you show me yours and I'll show you mine!"

 

Perhaps if you get a dialogue going, use a white board to let her stand up and show you how to do it it may convince her that asking for help is ok?

Stephanie

[rwilliams]

Could you just schedule in checkpoints after so many problems and have her do one in front of you. I will tell my son to do the next 10 problems and then come see me. I check to make sure he understands what he is doing and is not making careless mistakes. My son does not have any problem asking for help....I have the other problem. Trying to get him to struggle abit on his on first. :)

[Chris in VA]

Does she get a subtle reprimand every time she asks for help? I ask this gently. I see it in myself sometimes--My dd will pick up on my expectation that she understand something, but she doesn't, so I have just the slightest bit of irritation (don't even think it shows, but she KNOWS how I am feeling...) at her asking.

 

Is she a perfectionist? Is she hard on herself?

 

I think the key is probably examining yourself very, very honestly and seeing whether or not any of the above is happening. And then, if it's not, seeing if her own expectations are too high. After you determine that, maybe working quite consciously on reinforcing the idea that asking for help doesn't mean you are not capable/not doing the right thing/any "less"/ etc.

 

I hope I don't sound harsh.

[blessedmom3]

My son used to do the same . We used Horizons last year but I don't think this was the problem. It's his personality--he wants to be very self-sufficient, independent and proud. "Competent Carl" if you read Cathy Duffy's book ( 100 curriculum picks) you know what I mean.

 

Not sure if changing math to CLE made him enjoy math , but since we started it in August , he never cried anymore. He starts math first thing and even did it during the Christmas break ! He says it's his favorite subject.

 

We are also doing Singapore and it happens sometimes that he gets frustrated . I try to do it with him but he says he can do it by himself. Then of course he cannot do it and he gets mad !!

 

I don't know if there is anything to do other than telling them it's ok to ask for help. But their personality is stopping them to do it :)

[Carol in Cal.]

Maybe she is not doing it at the right time of the day for her?

 

Math acquisition at that age can be very dependent on being done in the morning, according to my limited experience and to my sister the teacher's extensive experience.

[redsquirrel]

My son was very much the same way. I know how frustrating this is. I started by giving him 'the speech'..gave it today, in fact,lol

 

'This is about you learning, not about being right. We are in this together and we will both make mistakes. If you don't know how to do this, you have to tell me before you get frustrated because it is about learning and not about being right'

 

I have also turned math into a joint venture. I sit and we do it outloud. He gets constant feedback. He does the problems outloud and I am right there giving feedback. I give LOTS of praise for hardwork and staying calm and asking questions. "great work, you are really thinking hard" "Oh, I am so glad you asked me that!" "This is a really hard question. Let's talk it through so we don't get lost" I say 'we' a whole lot.

 

He is now 10 and a 5th grader and things are SO MUCH better. He is finally feeling competent in math, I have learned to trust him when he starts making calculations in his head, he is willing to take correction without falling apart.

[specialmama]

You've got some great ideas! The only other thing I'd add is to explain that math is supposed to be a bit challenging, it's okay to need help and to ask questions ~ it's how we learn. If she knew it all, then there would be no need to take math. ;) I had to stress to my dd that every year math gets a bit more challenging. I made her feel successful by drawing the illustration of her doing grade 1 math and how that was hard for her in grade 1. Now she looks at grade 1 math and laughs at the simplicity. Next year she'll look at this math and say it's easy too. That's how it's supposed to be, so it's perfectly acceptable to need help in your current math.

[MerryAtHope]

A few thoughts:

 

1, Horizons at this level doesn't really have instruction to the kids in the book. I used to go through and either teach the first problem of anything new (or review a section that hasn't come up in awhile), or do the first one ahead of time as an example. Say things like, "This is new so you probably don't know this yet," or, "This hasn't come up for a long time so you might not remember..." Emphasizing these things might make it more "ok" to ask for help. You could also have her "ask questions" if she doesn't want to ask for "help." Maybe a change in terms would help her? Th

 

2, Horizons tends to have tons of problems. If she is overwhelmed by that, cut out some problems. I had my kids do all of anything new or anything they needed practice on, but crossed off half to 2/3 of review type problems--so they did something from every section but not every problem, if that makes sense. I used to aim for around 20, 30 at the most. Some of those pages with the little puzzles & designs can have 60 problems on them!

 

3, Try making up cards for her to turn in--they could say "ask mom" or "I have a question" or something like that. Give these to her and create an expectation that she'll use the cards when she gets stuck. You could even put some kind of funny picture on it that shows an animal in a precarious position or something & says "we all need help sometimes!" Let her know that you're sure she'll have a question at least twice, so you are giving her permission to turn these in when needed today. If she uses both, you can give the cards back to her for any more times she needs to use them.

 

4, Before you give her the math, have her read the instructions to you from each section that is review (after teaching the new section to her). Each time have her tell you what that means. You could do a sample problem together.

 

I've found with my kids that when I don't teach something up front (thinking they'll just come ask for help if needed), they think I expect them to already know it all, and they get afraid and overwhelmed to show that they don't. They feel a sense of failure and like they're dumb. I of course don't mean anything at all along these lines, but when I realized that's how they were interpretting things, I changed my approach to more pre-teaching.

 

Hang in there! Merry :-)

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Does she get a subtle reprimand every time she asks for help? I ask this gently.

 

Is she a perfectionist? Is she hard on herself?

 

I hope I don't sound harsh.

 

I just asked dh and my dd that question and they said not at all. I didnt think so either but you know how you look at your own actions differently sometimes. I actually encourage questions- even along the way because I want the ideas/procedured firmly planted in her head. That is why I ask so much because I actually enjoy working along side her...

 

Your next qyuestion is yes. She is very much a perfectionist :glare: and I was afraid of that though- that could be a huge part of it

 

My son used to do the same . We used Horizons last year but I don't think this was the problem. It's his personality--he wants to be very self-sufficient, independent and proud. "Competent Carl" if you read Cathy Duffy's book ( 100 curriculum picks) you know what I mean.

 

 

 

We got that book this summer and she got the exact same thing :001_huh:

[NanceXToo]

I would sit with her throughout the entire math lesson (as opposed to leaving her alone with it and going to check on her). Stay with her. Watch her do it. Watch for any signs of uncertainty or frustration. Then you can nip them in the bud.

[EKS]

Sit with her and watch her do the problems. That way you can see if she is getting stuck and do something about it before she gets frustrated.

[skaterbabs]

Dot tends to try to do the lesson without reading the instructions (we use CLE). What I do is have her read them aloud to me.

[katilac]

I would simply sit and work with her, whether she wants me to or not ;).

[justamouse]

She probably has a very self critical internal monologue going on while she's sitting there, quietly, getting more and more frustrated until she just breaks and cries.

 

:grouphug:

 

I would do every problem with her-Now what do we do? Why? Ok, now what? Then let her do the next one by herself.

 

You'll figure it out.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Thank you everybody. I have started doing every other (or so) problem with her. Its hard with trying to teach 4 kiddos (2 K'ers) but we found a groove with this :D

[Leila]

I would sit with her through out the math lesson, so you can see where the problem is coming from. You can also do some manipulative activities and games once a week to review lessons being learned. It's fun to do and not a work book type of activity.

 

Hope this helps.