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Article about choosing "fetal reduction" for twins


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When I was looking for some Catholic info lately ;), I found a commentary that linked to an article about "fetal reduction" for twins:

 

When Is Twins Too Many?

 

 

Like so many other couples these days, the Toronto-area business executive and her husband put off having children for years as they built successful careers. Both parents were in their 40s — and their first son just over a year old — when this spring the woman became pregnant a second time. Seven weeks in, an ultrasound revealed the Burlington, Ont., resident was carrying twins. “It came as a complete shock,†said the mother, who asked not to be named. “We’re both career people. If we were going to have three children two years apart, someone else was going to be raising our kids. ... All of a sudden our lives as we know them and as we like to lead them, are not going to happen.â€

 

She soon discovered another option: Doctors could “reduce†the pregnancy from twins to a singleton through a little-known procedure that eliminates selected fetuses — and has become increasingly common in the past two decades amid a boom in the number of multiple pregnancies.

 

Selective reductions are typically carried out for women pregnant with triplets or greater, where the risk of harm or death climbs sharply with each additional fetus. The Ontario couple is part of what some experts say is a growing demand for reducing twins to one, fuelled more by socio-economic imperatives than medical need, and raising vexing new ethical questions.

 

I knew that abortion for higher order multiples was practiced but I had NO IDEA it was becoming a chosen option for twins.

 

Have I been living under a rock? Did anyone else know this is becoming a chosen option?

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As a mother of unplanned twins (and really, who plans to have twins?) I am beyond sickened. I am beyond angry. At the parents. At the doctors. At the fact that this is even an option. Why would a doctor even consider doing it. What happened to "First, do no harm"? If it isn't a matter of life and death for mother or fetus, why is this allowed? And the child that's left.... If I found out my mother had aborted my twin, I would want nothing to do w/ her....ever. Sick!

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Can I vomit now? Excuse me, folks, but life doesn't always go as planned folks. Gee, having twins might upset their perfect plans to have children 3 years apart? Whatever happened to being thankful for the gifts given. I think I will have to spend some time in prayer today for those poor children.

 

:iagree: I was pregnant with triplets, but my u/s showed that one was lagging behind the others and my RE did not expect that one to make it. I did miscarry that one baby at 10 weeks and the other two remained (until 27 weeks, when they were born). My heart still aches for the baby lost. I know someone who has twins the same age as mine. She told me that her pregnancy started as triplets, but they "selectively reduced" to twins because she didn't think she could handle triplets. I thought I was going to throw up when she said that. It is not a concept that my mind can wrap around one little bit. :confused:

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"If we were going to have three children two years apart, someone else was going to be raising our kids. ... All of a sudden our lives as we know them and as we like to lead them, are not going to happen.â€

What kind of BS is this? Justifying killing a person just because it changes the family dynamic just a bit? Why is it that someone else would be raising their children if one more child is added to the family?

 

Of all the blankety-blank blank blankety blank idiocy.

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It's sad that she'll never the joy that baby would have brought her. I do understand feelings of being overwhelmed and the fear of the unknown, but her reaction is incredibly extreme!

 

I have a friend who had unexpected twins this past year. It wasn't what they planned, she and her dh both have jobs (and she would never give hers up), but they adapted and it worked out for the good of all.

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was a show on moms with multiples. One lady had 3 healthy beautiful triplets but had been pregnant with quads. Her dr had recommended selective reduction in order for the other 3 to live.

 

She saw moms with quads that were healthy and well while on the show.

She was in tears and grieving as she told Oprah about the choice they made. All she could think about was that lost child.

 

It was years ago but that image has never left my mind.

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I have a friend who aborted a single because she already had one of each sex, and she was about to finish her masters.

 

Her husband had a very good job, and they lived in a nice area. I can see that having the baby would have been an inconvenience, but not really any kind of hardship.

 

I'm not really surprised by what some mothers will do anymore.

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I do understand selective reduction in higher order multiples. Bearing and caring for 5 or 6 babies must be very difficult, bordering on impossible. I have difficult pregnancies and I've never had multiples. Heartbreaking, yes, but understandable, imo. Parents, esp without family support/high income would be hard pressed to meet even the most basic needs of 5 or 6 babies at a time.

 

However, reducing twins-which do have risks, but generally good outcomes- is very selfish. My second, unplanned baby, forced me to put my career aside. He completely changed our lives, and our plans. We are living a very different life than we planned. I am so glad. My life is richer, and fuller, and I have grown so much as a person. My marriage is far stronger, our home is more stable, and I was able to better meet the needs of my older child with special needs as well. We have since added another baby, and expecting our 4th in May. I think fate every single day for sending me that baby I did not want. He is the best thing to ever happen in my life.

 

I can't imagine making this kind of decision so flippantly. Twins are too hard, so we'll just get rid of one. Ah, much better.

 

I do wonder if, while watching one child grow, they will always wonder what the other would have been like.

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UGH...doesnt responsibility come along with getting pregnant anymore?? Do people not think of the 10,000 things that could wrong with a fetus and that OMG you could get more than one?

 

DONT GET PREGNANT if you arent ready to deal with all the possibilities.

I cant believe that people can just get pregnant all willy nilly and then have the option to end it if things dont come out as perfectly planned. Selective reduction is crap.

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So sad.

 

And considering the connection that some twins share, I wonder how that will affect the remaining twin, even if they are never told.

 

 

This.

 

After my brother died I read a book written by the sister of "the Bubble Boy". (Does anyone remember John Travolta playing him in the movie in the 70's?) She wrote about her experience of grieving her brother's death.

 

The book is: The Empty Room: Surviving the Loss of a Brother or Sister at Any Age and it was incredibly helpful to me.

 

 

Ohyes, I had a point in here somewhere. My point was this: One type of grief she talks about is Twin Grief. She wrote about how some people walk around with this vague grief that they can't quite put words to......then somehow they find out that their twin died and the parents decided to just 'never mention it' so the child wouldn't be sad. :001_huh: But, of course,.....they just know.

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Yes, and I don't understand her comment about them both being career people and that if they were going to have 3 children in two years, someone else would be raising them. Isn't someone else going to be raising the 2 children that she had in two years if they are both career people anyway?

 

Lisa

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This.

 

After my brother died I read a book written by the sister of "the Bubble Boy". (Does anyone remember John Travolta playing him in the movie in the 70's?) She wrote about her experience of grieving her brother's death.

 

The book is: The Empty Room: Surviving the Loss of a Brother or Sister at Any Age and it was incredibly helpful to me.

 

 

Ohyes, I had a point in here somewhere. My point was this: One type of grief she talks about is Twin Grief. She wrote about how some people walk around with this vague grief that they can't quite put words to......then somehow they find out that their twin died and the parents decided to just 'never mention it' so the child wouldn't be sad. :001_huh: But, of course,.....they just know.

Even separated siblings go through this...even those that didn't realise they had siblings. It's like something inside that you just know is missing. I found siblings I didn't realise I had, and it was like all the missing pieces were suddenly filled in.

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There is no limit to the ability of humankind for selfishness and pride and self-justification

 

:iagree: No limit indeed. I'm sad for the baby who died. But even sadder for the one who lived. The first is in the arms of Jesus. The second, in the arms of....um....the people who killed his brother.

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I do understand selective reduction in higher order multiples. Bearing and caring for 5 or 6 babies must be very difficult, bordering on impossible. I have difficult pregnancies and I've never had multiples. Heartbreaking, yes, but understandable, imo. Parents, esp without family support/high income would be hard pressed to meet even the most basic needs of 5 or 6 babies at a time.

 

However, reducing twins-which do have risks, but generally good outcomes- is very selfish. My second, unplanned baby, forced me to put my career aside. He completely changed our lives, and our plans. We are living a very different life than we planned. I am so glad. My life is richer, and fuller, and I have grown so much as a person. My marriage is far stronger, our home is more stable, and I was able to better meet the needs of my older child with special needs as well. We have since added another baby, and expecting our 4th in May. I think fate every single day for sending me that baby I did not want. He is the best thing to ever happen in my life.

 

I can't imagine making this kind of decision so flippantly. Twins are too hard, so we'll just get rid of one. Ah, much better.

 

I do wonder if, while watching one child grow, they will always wonder what the other would have been like.

 

I have to point out that IMO, the top paragraph and the first sentence of the 2nd TOTALLY contradict each other.

 

First of all multiples happens with IVF, you (universal here, not YOU strawberry) knew the risks going in. You deliberately set yourself up for multiples. You hoped that they would take. Then when they do...uh oh, too many gotta get rid of some? You should have thought about all of the factors BEFORE going through with it.

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I don't see that is any worse than aborting a single pregnancy.

 

Exactly. Once abortion was legal, all bets were off. How is it any worse? Once you open the door to any pregnancy being a choice..... It's all sad and devastating.

 

Just to be clear:

 

I believe abortion is wrong. I'm not saying abortion is OK except in this case.

 

A baby is dead after an abortion so the outcome is the same.

 

However, there is something about the practice? Or justification given? Or situation?...that is horrifying...in a way that I haven't experienced before.

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DONT GET PREGNANT if you arent ready to deal with all the possibilities.

 

 

While I agree that the topic of selectively reducing twins is repugnant, I think that your statement is rather flip and impractical. I don't know anyone who has gotten pregnant after sitting down, learning about and sorting through the literally uncountable myriad possibilities for bad outcomes, and determining rationally that they could deal with any of them. People don't do that, and they shouldn't be expected to. Humans are created with a biological drive to procreate, and they will do so, and it should not be turned into a morality crusade about who was prepared enough and who wasn't. Medical science has advanced to the point where, as my mother (who worked in a NICU) has said, doctors can keep a shoebox alive, but at what cost to everyone? Babies who would not have survived in the past survive now, and the medical, emotional, and financial costs can be staggeringly outrageous. I am not advocating not doing what can be done for babies with medical issues or extreme prematurity, but honestly, there is no possible way someone could realistically prepare for a horrible, horrible outcome. You simply can't know what it's like until you live it. (The same is true of adoption, btw ... I can't tell you the number of times people heartlessly told me, "Well, you knew when you adopted that it would be hard" when my family was going through the emotional ringer with a child with severe emotional issues.)

 

Tara

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Just to be clear:

 

I believe abortion is wrong. I'm not saying abortion is OK except in this case.

 

A baby is dead after an abortion so the outcome is the same.

 

However, there is something about the practice? Or justification given? Or situation?...that is horrifying...in a way that I haven't experienced before.

 

Oh, I agree. I'm just pointing out that from the get-go, when abortion was made legal, justified, it was just a slippery slope at that point. In years from now people won't be saddened, or horrified by articles like this. In fact there won't even be articles like this because it will be so common.

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While I agree that the topic of selectively reducing twins is repugnant, I think that your statement is rather flip and impractical. I don't know anyone who has gotten pregnant after sitting down, learning about and sorting through the literally uncountable myriad possibilities for bad outcomes, and determining rationally that they could deal with any of them. People don't do that, and they shouldn't be expected to. Humans are created with a biological drive to procreate, and they will do so, and it should not be turned into a morality crusade about who was prepared enough and who wasn't. Medical science has advanced to the point where, as my mother (who worked in a NICU) has said, doctors can keep a shoebox alive, but at what cost to everyone? Babies who would not have survived in the past survive now, and the medical, emotional, and financial costs can be staggeringly outrageous. I am not advocating not doing what can be done for babies with medical issues or extreme prematurity, but honestly, there is no possible way someone could realistically prepare for a horrible, horrible outcome. You simply can't know what it's like until you live it. (The same is true of adoption, btw ... I can't tell you the number of times people heartlessly told me, "Well, you knew when you adopted that it would be hard" when my family was going through the emotional ringer with a child with severe emotional issues.)

 

Tara

 

While, I agree with you I think you are talking about a completely different matter. Being surprised by multiples is different then when things go wrong in a pregnancy. Getting pregnant with multiples cannot be classified with Things that go wrong in a pregnancy. When it happens naturally, well, your body is doing what comes naturally. When you chose IVF, you are CHOOSING to have more then one. In fact most want more then one to "take". That's why I never understand how people can rationally justify selective reduction afer IVF.

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When you chose IVF, you are CHOOSING to have more then one. In fact most want more then one to "take". That's why I never understand how people can rationally justify selective reduction afer IVF.

 

I agree with your sentiment here, 100%.

 

Perhaps I misread the post I responded to, but to me it felt like the poster was implying that if you get any surprises at all, well, you didn't do your homework.

 

Tara

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Just to be clear:

 

I believe abortion is wrong. I'm not saying abortion is OK except in this case.

 

A baby is dead after an abortion so the outcome is the same.

 

However, there is something about the practice? Or justification given? Or situation?...that is horrifying...in a way that I haven't experienced before.

 

I think it's worse because from the very beginning of the wanted child's life, you are doing something unspeakable to him or her: killing his or her twin! As my twins sit 6 feet away from me playing with each other, that's just really horrifying/unthinkable/unspeakable/inhumane/violent.

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Even though I believe in a woman's right to choose, this makes me so sad. I lost DS6's twin at around 12 weeks. Friends of ours had twins last March, and a few months later my eldest asked me why I never had twins. So, without even thinking about it, I mentioned the deceased twin. My eldest and DD4 were sad and surprised, but it was really DS6's reaction that surprised me and made me really wonder - he was not surprised at all, and all he said to me was "I know, I call him Jacob." Made the hair on my arms stand up and also made me really upset to know that he knew about his twin, but never spoke of him. He talks about it all the time now that he feels he has "permission" and he asks lots of questions like "why did he die and i didn't?" (not that we knew what the sex was).

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Can I vomit now? Excuse me, folks, but life doesn't always go as planned folks. Gee, having twins might upset their perfect plans to have children 3 years apart? Whatever happened to being thankful for the gifts given. I think I will have to spend some time in prayer today for those poor children.

:iagree::iagree:

 

And can someone explain the comment about aborting the 'wrong' twin??

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My stomach honestly turned when I read that. I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am. People never cease to amaze me with their selfishness, especially in regards to their children. One day that mother is going to need some psychological help for what she has done. And her poor surviving child. :(

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Even though I believe in a woman's right to choose, this makes me so sad. I lost DS6's twin at around 12 weeks. Friends of ours had twins last March, and a few months later my eldest asked me why I never had twins. So, without even thinking about it, I mentioned the deceased twin. My eldest and DD4 were sad and surprised, but it was really DS6's reaction that surprised me and made me really wonder - he was not surprised at all, and all he said to me was "I know, I call him Jacob." Made the hair on my arms stand up and also made me really upset to know that he knew about his twin, but never spoke of him. He talks about it all the time now that he feels he has "permission" and he asks lots of questions like "why did he die and i didn't?" (not that we knew what the sex was).

 

:grouphug:

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As a mom of unplanned twins, this makes me very upset. :(

 

Yeah, life is full of surprises, but this is one of the more pleasant ones. It's too bad that these folks will miss out on the joy they will never know.

 

:iagree: (Paint that smile into a frown.)

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I agree with your sentiment here, 100%.

 

Perhaps I misread the post I responded to, but to me it felt like the poster was implying that if you get any surprises at all, well, you didn't do your homework.

 

Tara

 

If that is the case, I agree, I think it's unfair. Just like your scenario about adoption. It's hard and I think people should be able to say it without getting lambasted. I think choosing (I say choosing here but ultimately IMO having a baby, once pregnant, should no longer be a choice) to have a DS baby (or any baby with "problems") is absolutely the right thing to do. BUT I also think that it must be very hard and the parents should be able to share how they feel without getting lambasted.

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I think Chucki said it best... All the same, I have to wonder just who is going to be raising the two they are going to have? Was the space time continuum going to warp because they had twins, thereby leaving them with less hours in the day, or were they saying that with two they might let the nanny have Saturday afternoons off, but with three :shewee: well, they'd have to hire TWO nannies so they could have the time to pamper themselves while thinking about all the work they would have had to put into putting up with their own offspring for a few hours. rant off

What kind of BS is this? Justifying killing a person just because it changes the family dynamic just a bit? Why is it that someone else would be raising their children if one more child is added to the family?

 

Of all the blankety-blank blank blankety blank idiocy.

:iagree:

Exactly. Once abortion was legal, all bets were off. How is it any worse? Once you open the door to any pregnancy being a choice..... It's all sad and devastating.

:iagree:

:iagree: No limit indeed. I'm sad for the baby who died. But even sadder for the one who lived. The first is in the arms of Jesus. The second, in the arms of....um....the people who killed his brother.

:iagree:

Just to be clear:

 

I believe abortion is wrong. I'm not saying abortion is OK except in this case.

 

A baby is dead after an abortion so the outcome is the same.

 

However, there is something about the practice? Or justification given? Or situation?...that is horrifying...in a way that I haven't experienced before.

It's because, in this case, they are CLEARLY speaking about murdering a human being. You can't say it's just tissue, or 'not human' or any of the other ways to dance around "baby" when you're planning on keeping the other one.

What if they abort the wrong twin?

 

:confused:

I'm guessing the joke is, what if they're murdering the evil twin.

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Putting aside the main issue, the motivation for the abortion was a bit puzzling to me. The spacing thing as well as

 

Why is it that someone else would be raising their children if one more child is added to the family?

 

And what's wrong with having someone else raise your kids, anyway?

 

Having my mother/mother-in-law/sister/sister-in-law/whoever help raise my kids is just not the end of the world, as far as I am concerned. I'd prefer a family member to a nanny, but hey. Nothing immoral about a nanny.

 

I know someone who had twins and ended up going to stay with her mother for several months (6+) because she just needed more help than her husband (who worked) could provide. I think it's rather smart. Bring on the extended family.

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Putting aside the main issue, the motivation for the abortion was a bit puzzling to me. The spacing thing as well as

 

 

And what's wrong with having someone else raise your kids, anyway?

 

Having my mother/mother-in-law/sister/sister-in-law/whoever help raise my kids is just not the end of the world, as far as I am concerned. I'd prefer a family member to a nanny, but hey. Nothing immoral about a nanny.

 

I know someone who had twins and ended up going to stay with her mother for several months (6+) because she just needed more help than her husband (who worked) could provide. I think it's rather smart. Bring on the extended family.

You and your benefit of the doubt.

 

Ugh.

 

Sure, it could have been extended family coming in to help, but nannies and daycares are much easier to scream about :lol:

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I believe that abortion in itself is wrong. And then this takes it to another level. They are keeping one baby? How in the world are they going to explain that to the one they chose not to murder? And how in the world are they going to choose which child to keep? And, God forbid, if the surviving baby is born with something wrong with it, will they forever wish they chose the other one?

 

What a horrible situation they have chosen.

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They could give the extra to me. :(

 

Seriously, I turn 40 this year and in my little secret fantasies, I get to have a set of twins soon, just to put a decent finale on my childbearing years. :D Even though twins would be crazy! and a complete disruption of everything I have been working towards...I would take it anyhow. If they're girls, I even have the names worked out. :D

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