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About children who hurt littler children...


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If you knew there was a kid in your neighborhood who was inappropriate with a littler child (as in an older kid molesting a younger one) what would you expect to have happen? If you live in a neighborhood with young kiddos, would you expect the other moms to know? What about at school? What if you were the parent and you knew of the boy and your child went to school with him? Would you expect the parent to inform the school? What would you expect of the teachers and staff at the school? What if you were the neighbor? What if you were the parent? What if you were friends?

 

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I would expect that the older child was himself/herself a victim of sexual abuse. I would expect the parents of said child to report the circumstances to the police/CPS and immediately seek out counseling for their own child and offer to help pay for it for the younger child victims. I would expect them to put strict guidelines of supervision in their child until their counselor deems it safe.

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Holy Cow, Bee! A lot of things to ponder.

If...I am the parent who knows this about an neighborhood child, I would make darn sure that none of my children have contact with this child. I would also inform the child's parents. I may even check into the law. There is some kind of reporting obligation, don't know how far this extends and if it is dependent on the age of the molester. I am writing this on the premise of serious molestation - not a kid who pushes, fights and bullies.

 

If... this was the child of a friend, I may suggest counseling if asked. I try to keep my thoughts to myself unless someone asks my advice - UNLESS I see immediate danger to someone, child or adult.

 

If...this happened at school, I really don't know how our school district would handle it. My ds was in PS until 5th grade but thankfully in a very small country school. I have a feeling that things would be handled in a very thorough manner, but I could be wrong. Again speaking about serious molestation - in the real sense of the word - I would definitely expect the principal to contact the parent(s) and take steps to keep this child away from all other kids, younger or same age. If a school district was lax about this, would they not risk a law suit?

 

 

 

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The school can't really do much unless he does something to get in trouble. They are reactive, not proactive most of the time.

 

All you can really do is tell your kid to stay away from him. Far away.

 

Has he been charged with a crime and or convicted?

 

If not, you can expect pretty much nothing to be done until that changes. Even then, it is unnerving how little can be done.

 

ETA: Due to privacy laws, I seriously doubt any school would be allowed to inform parents of this other student. For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me if even the teachers didn't know. It's not like public school can do back ground checks on students.

Edited by Martha
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It depends on a lot of things:

 

What do you mean by older/younger children? 8 & 5 is very different from 13 and 8 or 16 & 10, y'know?

 

What do you mean by 'molest?'

 

What has happened so far, if anything? Counseling? CPS?

 

Do you KNOW this happened? The only way to know, imo, is to either observe it or have a directly involved parent tell you about it.

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I know a family who experienced this years ago. The older child, who was inappropriate with our friend's child, was already involved with CPS before the incident. There were actually two occurrences. Although CPS was involved, the school was not involved or informed formally. All of the neighborhood parents became aware through word of mouth.

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Do you KNOW this happened? The only way to know, imo, is to either observe it or have a directly involved parent tell you about it.

 

This is what worries me. Hearsay is a mighty dangerous thing. Hearing it from someone who heard it from someone else, etc. And of course no one wants to believe the person who told them is wrong.

 

Personally, I don't expect to hear or share extremely personal information with other people unless there is a very good reason. If you're concerned, you can phone the school and ask the principal directly what the school policy is on kids who abuse other children. Are parents informed when a situation is alleged? proven?

 

If nothing has been proven, by personal experience (not hearsay) or through the law, I don't think anything should be done. You could possibly be contributing to a bad situation. You can be cautious about your own children of course, but to go around sharing something you aren't sure about, that can walk you on very shaky ground. How would you personally feel if you found out that other parents were telling people something like that about your children? And if you are truly concerned about a particular child, I think you should talk with the principal first by telling him/her you've heard some very unsettling things about a particular child and you want advice on how to go from there. You could describe the situation without giving names. If you don't get help from there, call the police. I don't think any adult should allow a potential molestation to happen but I don't think crying aloud from the rooftops is a good idea either.

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I would not allow my kids to be around that child at. all. ever.

 

As far as school goes, the school should definitely be aware of the child's past and that child should always have an escort accompany him/her to the bathroom and an extra effort should be put forth to keep an eye on him/her during recess.

 

My honest thoughts are that the child should not be allowed to attend a public school, I mean if the school wouldn't allow a child molester to teach there, they shouldn't let other child molesters there, regardless of age. But I know that would never happen.

 

I would talk to the administration about what precautions they are taking to ensure the safety of their students.

 

I know I've read about something like this, I'm just having a hard time remembering where.. I think it was from that book "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin De Becker, but I'm not 100%.

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Thanks. I know the mom of the little boy. He is 5, the older child is 11. A report has been filed. It is under investigation. The older child did confess of his actions to parents and grandparent. It was definitely molestation. S*xual request made and physical touching. My concern, as mentioned, is that the school would not take precautions.... As already mentioned, there are privacy laws. I've been talking with the mom of the little boy, listening and just being there. She wonders if the school will be notified and if the staff/teachers would supervise at all... the bathroom situation bothers us. Since we live in the same area, my boys go to school with this boy. My boys are all peers, so I am not concerned about him trying anything there, but I still wouldn't want them spending time with him.

 

And what would I tell my boys? I want them to know that this isn't something that they would go around telling... They don't know about it at this time. Do I just not talk about it and wait to see if they bring it up? Do I talk about it, but without names of who did what?

 

Sigh. Not what I'd like to contemplate for the new year....

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I have always come down on the side of speaking with your child. There are many ways things can be said. You needn't go into the gory details but could warn them not to trust this older child. I think I would do this as a minimum. Didn't check on your kids' ages but I would have wanted my ds to know that something wasn't right.

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It was Protecting the Gift. What a scary situation. I also think you should speak to your boys.

 

I would not allow my kids to be around that child at. all. ever.

 

As far as school goes, the school should definitely be aware of the child's past and that child should always have an escort accompany him/her to the bathroom and an extra effort should be put forth to keep an eye on him/her during recess.

 

My honest thoughts are that the child should not be allowed to attend a public school, I mean if the school wouldn't allow a child molester to teach there, they shouldn't let other child molesters there, regardless of age. But I know that would never happen.

 

I would talk to the administration about what precautions they are taking to ensure the safety of their students.

 

I know I've read about something like this, I'm just having a hard time remembering where.. I think it was from that book "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin De Becker, but I'm not 100%.

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Thanks. I know the mom of the little boy. He is 5, the older child is 11. A report has been filed. It is under investigation. The older child did confess of his actions to parents and grandparent. It was definitely molestation. S*xual request made and physical touching. My concern, as mentioned, is that the school would not take precautions.... As already mentioned, there are privacy laws. I've been talking with the mom of the little boy, listening and just being there. She wonders if the school will be notified and if the staff/teachers would supervise at all... the bathroom situation bothers us. Since we live in the same area, my boys go to school with this boy. My boys are all peers, so I am not concerned about him trying anything there, but I still wouldn't want them spending time with him.

 

And what would I tell my boys? I want them to know that this isn't something that they would go around telling... They don't know about it at this time. Do I just not talk about it and wait to see if they bring it up? Do I talk about it, but without names of who did what?

 

Sigh. Not what I'd like to contemplate for the new year....

 

Was the 11yo in any supervisory capacity over the 5yo (like babysitting)? If he was not, then the investigation may well go nowhere at all. (In Illinois that is the policy.)

 

Having said that, if they do a full investigation, they would need to look at two things:

 

Is the 11yo being molested or has been molested in the past? This is a MAJOR concern for a child acting out in this way--it is highly, highly likely that the 11yo has been victimized, needs help, and may need rescuing NOW.

 

Is the 11yo in continued contact with the 5yo and/or does the 11yo supervise or babysit other small children?

 

If the worker can determine the safety of the 11yo and other children in his home, and the safety of other small children, they are likely to recommend counseling at the parents' expense and drop it. Unless the abuse was particularly invasive it is likely that nothing more will happen.

 

DCFS does not inform the school of anything unless they need to interview a child during school hours or provide services to a child during school hours.

 

Most schools do not provide any level at all of protection. Generally response is punitive IF something happened on school grounds, and even then the response is fairly limited. Bullying and abuse are very under-responded in school settings, and frankly, under-reported as well.

 

What I would want for the 11yo: A thorough investigation into HIS safety (he had to have learned that behavior somewhere) AND intensive therapy. While it is not likely that this would happen, I would want the 11yo's parents to step up loving supervision to a level more associated with a much younger child. The two very worst outcomes for the 11yo are both to be stigmatized and without any healthy peer relationships, or to be under-supervised and unable to form healthy relationships plus having continued opportunity to perpetrate abusive behaviors. Unfortunately, both these negative outcomes are also the most likely, and 11yo probably will be additionally treated in a very punitive manner. The likelihood of effective help for him is fairly low unless his parents can intensively supervise as well as seek effective, intensive therapy for him (both talk therapy and cognitive behavioral coaching), in addition to making sure he is safe from whoever originally perpetrated on him.

 

It is a very hopeful sign that 11yo confessed the behavior.

 

What I would want for the 5yo: An apology from the 11yo in writing, addressed to the 5yo. A sincere apology goes a long way towards healing. Also I would want 5yo to not have to ever interact with 11yo again, period. Therapy for the 5yo would be key as well.

Edited by strider
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It really depends on the laws in your state. As a former advocate for sexually abused children, I am sad to say that this is a very, very common thing.

 

CPS is prob not involved because in most states CPS is only for the investigation of known adults in a caretaking situations abusing kids. If the perp is a kid, it is a straight law enforcement issue. Again, different states have different laws that vary depending on the age of the victim, the age of the perp, any force involved and what happened. It very well might not have been reported to the police. There is no mandate to report any crime to the police. If the guy down the street does something to my kid, I am under no obligation to report it to the police. If my live in boyfriend does something to my kid, I am under obligation to report it to CPS. CPS might be under obligation to report it, if it reaches the level of a crime, but only if it is a adult in a caretaking situation. Most CPS investigations to not reach the level of needing a criminal investigation.

 

Abuse by a young person is a fairly complicated subject and not enough is known about these kids to make any sweeping statements. Some are reenacting actual abuse, some are mentally ill, some have seen or heard things and are acting out of ignorance. It is complicated.

 

If law enforcement is involved, then there is the possibility that an order of protection could keep the defendant out of the school with the victim. I have seen kids have to change schools.

 

As for my own kids, I think now would be a GREAT time to talk about what to do if anyone: child, trusted adult, friend, stranger, authority figure asks them to do anything that makes them uncomfortable. It could be anything from minor stealing to watching a movie your kids know they shouldn't see to accepting a gift and keeping it a secret. You can keep it very general. Consider it the begining of the conversation because you are going to have to have it many times. Always end with letting them know they can talk to you about anything.

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