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Hopefully others will join in on this, but generally Veritas Press is a Christian company that uses the TM (which is really a workbook type thing for the child) and then they have nice cards in chronological order that briefly discuss the event and then on the bottom of the card are spines and other books that tie into the event. They also have a CD that sings the events in order. (CC uses their cards and CD for their history memory work.) The resources VP uses are great-many of the same books that you see in SL, TOG, etc. They also have a Scholars program that plans it all out for you, and I think some online courses.

 

Oh, and the grading is a little misleading-I thought the grades 2-6 TMs are actually pretty close in difficulty-you'd beef it up or down based on what you'd have them do as extras from the TM and also on the level of the extra readings that you'd do.

 

We used this curric through a co-op for two yrs. Previously we had only done strictly lit based history, and I felt that doing the worksheets and then studying them for the "test" plus learning the history cards gave much better retention. We would read the card and do the worksheet from the card on Mon, she'd study the worksheet all wk while we read the books on the card (plus others I came up with for a "book basket"), listen to the memory song in the car, do anything else in the workbook, and she'd take the test on Fri. Some weeks I'd have her do a Key Word Outline (a la IEW) from the card and she would rewrite from that, adding dress-ups, etc., and that also helped with retention. I didn't think the mapwork was extensive enough, but we like a lot, and we really aren't crafty so we didn't do that part. There is also lit in the wkbk, but we did other things for lit. I seem to remember the lit being mostly comprehension questions, but I could be wrong.

 

We were able to use TOG from a df this yr but I am not seeing nearly the retention we had with VP. (Of course, we had the accountability of the co-op, which helped too.)

 

You should be able to see what they have on the website, but I personally HATE their site. I would order a catalog-it's lots of fun to look at even if you don't end up using their curric!

 

VP used to be very popular on these boards years ago, but you don't see it as much now. I liked it in the context of our co-op but I'm not sure I would get it done well at home plus I'd tweak it too much!

 

Go ahead and ask more questions, if you have them. :)

 

ETA: forgot to address prep time-VERY minimal if you have the resources they suggest.

Edited by HappyGrace
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Every time I looked at VP in the past it scared the bajeebies out of me. It just seem TO advanced. I didn't at all understand how/why they would assign certain books for certain ages and felt it must be for the very brainy child...a discription which fit none of my children. So, though I did buy a few reading books from VP, I never considered them for our actual school.

 

Now that I have actually seen inside an Omnibus, I am much more intrigued, but it would behoove VP to have a better online store, better samples and descriptions for the younger grades. I always recieved their catty, but still could not wrap my brain around how a typical VP school day goes. Perhaps with better visuals, download samples, etc. I would have used VP ages ago.

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Oh, I think there's a silent contingent who have been using it all along. :)

 

Melissa, you're right, it is pretty destructured. It's sort of like your beloved TOG, hehe. You get the stuff and have to turn it into your week yourself.

 

Personally, I'm head over heels for the new self-paced online courses. Definitely on my hit list to use with ds.

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Oh, I think there's a silent contingent who have been using it all along. :)

 

Melissa, you're right, it is pretty destructured. It's sort of like your beloved TOG, hehe. You get the stuff and have to turn it into your week yourself.

 

Personally, I'm head over heels for the new self-paced online courses. Definitely on my hit list to use with ds.

 

:lol::lol: Ah yes, my beloved TOG. Must you remind me of my great loss? I still have my Y2 here gazing at me with puppy-dog eyes (waiting to be sold) and my Y3 boxed up and ready to go to it's new home tomorrow. It's a very sad time for me...a little compassion, please. :blink::lol:

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:lol::lol: Ah yes, my beloved TOG. Must you remind me of my great loss? I still have my Y2 here gazing at me with puppy-dog eyes (waiting to be sold) and my Y3 boxed up and ready to go to it's new home tomorrow. It's a very sad time for me...a little compassion, please. :blink::lol:

 

Wait! You dropped TOG? :svengo:

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:iagree: Their website is the WORST.

 

It can be advanced or not; it's easy to tailor.

 

I'm not saying I'm head over heels about it, but it fit a need for us and we learned a lot. I'm glad I used it and would consider using it again at some point. I think three things made us switch:

1. Not having the accountability of co-op

2. Being able to use TOG for free this yr.

3. Discovering we prefer a narrative spine for history (which you could adapt VP to be-there are correlations to SOTW, etc., online, I think.)

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Wait! You dropped TOG? :svengo:

 

Yes, and it's still a sore subject around here [sigh]. :sad:

 

My ds begged me about 3 mths ago to find something else. He loved TOG's lit and we learned a lot from the bible/worldview, and he liked the history until we hit Y2 where he began to crash and burn. :confused:

 

He uses BJU's Science. Loves BJU Science. Decided he wanted a history program like his science. Concise and straightforward. He hated trying to answer the TOG questions from various sources, never knowing what book had what and where on earth it was in said book. And he was getting confused jumping back and forth from Our Island Story to This Country of Ours, to another book, to another book, etc. So he asked me if I would please let him try a BJU history text. Being the wonderful loving mother that I am, I immediately said, "No WAY! A TEXTBOOK??" :lol: But I finally relented and he's finishing up this year with BJU. He likes it. Go figure. BUT, I am looking at VP's Omnibus III for next year. I think it might be a decent compromise. ;)

 

Hmmm...Kinda feeling like I hijacked this thread. Sorry HappyGrace. Proceed everyone!

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Melissa I'll just go on the record prophesying you need to stay with BJU for history. Doesn't make sense to change. You could just use O3 selectively to study a few books. That way he keeps what he likes, and you get what you like.

 

You're probably right, Elizabeth. I'll have a better idea, I think, once I get O3 in my greedy little hands. ;)

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Yes, and it's still a sore subject around here [sigh]. :sad:

 

My ds begged me about 3 mths ago to find something else. He loved TOG's lit and we learned a lot from the bible/worldview, and he liked the history until we hit Y2 where he began to crash and burn. :confused:

 

He uses BJU's Science. Loves BJU Science. Decided he wanted a history program like his science. Concise and straightforward. He hated trying to answer the TOG questions from various sources, never knowing what book had what and where on earth it was in said book. And he was getting confused jumping back and forth from Our Island Story to This Country of Ours, to another book, to another book, etc. So he asked me if I would please let him try a BJU history text. Being the wonderful loving mother that I am, I immediately said, "No WAY! A TEXTBOOK??" :lol: But I finally relented and he's finishing up this year with BJU. He likes it. Go figure. BUT, I am looking at VP's Omnibus III for next year. I think it might be a decent compromise. ;)

 

Hmmm...Kinda feeling like I hijacked this thread. Sorry HappyGrace. Proceed everyone!

 

Sorry HappyGrace... I started it. :o

 

Next year will be our first with TOG so I don't wanna hear about people dropping it. la la la la la. :lol: Thanks for sharing your reason why.

 

I'm thinking about Omnibus for high school too but want to get some TOG in there as well. I figured Logic stage was a good place to start with TOG and we'll see where it takes us.

 

Going along with the theme of this thread :D... I'm thinking of adding the VP history cards (and taking a look at their teacher manual that HappyGrace linked in her other thread) to our TOG studies but I'm not sure if that's overkill. What am I saying?? It *IS* overkill if I do it all but that's not my plan.

 

I think I'm going to have to order the Ancients TM to have a look at it, as well as get my hands on a set of their cards. I've always used VP as my go-to place for finding books to read for our history studies. I love their printed catalog and their price matching policy. :thumbup:

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Sorry HappyGrace... I started it. :o

 

Next year will be our first with TOG so I don't wanna hear about people dropping it. la la la la la. :lol: Thanks for sharing your reason why.

 

I'm thinking about Omnibus for high school too but want to get some TOG in there as well. I figured Logic stage was a good place to start with TOG and we'll see where it takes us.

 

Going along with the theme of this thread :D... I'm thinking of adding the VP history cards (and taking a look at their teacher manual that HappyGrace linked in her other thread) to our TOG studies but I'm not sure if that's overkill. What am I saying?? It *IS* overkill if I do it all but that's not my plan.

 

I think I'm going to have to order the Ancients TM to have a look at it, as well as get my hands on a set of their cards. I've always used VP as my go-to place for finding books to read for our history studies. I love their printed catalog and their price matching policy. :thumbup:

 

 

I use the cards along with MOH. It isn't overkill unless you make it that way. I am not trying to use VP and MOH, only using the cards from VP and will sometimes pick up some extra reading from the sources stated right on the cards :tongue_smilie:

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Go ahead and ask more questions, if you have them. :)

 

 

If I want a 4-yr. world history for 5th - 8th gr., can I use VP? I thought they do 2 6-yr. world history cycles. I've always thought it would be too much to condense their 6 yrs. down into 4 yrs. Also, don't they start Omni in 7th? Do you see a way VP could work for me that I don't?

 

To what degree of detail do the new lesson plans go (daily? weekly?)? Before they offered those, their catalogs looked to me like a mess of great books. Great quality books, but a mess that I would have to figure out what to do with. Do the lesson plans remedy this, or did I misunderstand in the first place?

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No worries! :) I only started this thread to respond to someone's questions about VP.

 

He hated trying to answer the TOG questions from various sources, never knowing what book had what and where on earth it was in said book. And he was getting confused jumping back and forth from Our Island Story to This Country of Ours, to another book, to another book, etc.

 

We are doing TOG this yr for the 1st time too and I was hoping it would solve my problems of trying to work with an on-level 2nd grader and advanced 5th grader. I've always pieced history/lit curric together myself to make it custom fit, and I thought I could use TOG as the opposite: as a buffet that I could pare back to what I want.

 

Alas, we are having the same issues as Melissa. Exactly what she said above: jumping around trying to find answers in books, PLUS we realized we need a narrative spine. I also realized I don't necessarily want to spend that much of our time on history.

 

I'm really bummed; I was hoping it would work for us long-term.

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If I want a 4-yr. world history for 5th - 8th gr., can I use VP? I thought they do 2 6-yr. world history cycles. I've always thought it would be too much to condense their 6 yrs. down into 4 yrs. Also, don't they start Omni in 7th? Do you see a way VP could work for me that I don't?

 

To what degree of detail do the new lesson plans go (daily? weekly?)? Before they offered those, their catalogs looked to me like a mess of great books. Great quality books, but a mess that I would have to figure out what to do with. Do the lesson plans remedy this, or did I misunderstand in the first place?

 

I'm sorry, I don't have a ton of info on VP-we only did it the two yrs, so I can answer questions only about that. But I will comment on what I can about your questions and hopefully others can chime in.

 

Their first cycle is a 5yr cycle-they separate Ancients into 2 yrs. Before we joined, I do know our co-op condensed VP Ancients into 1 yr by leaving out less important cards.

 

Omni starts in 7th but I've never looked into that very much. I do know that they say Omni 1 is the hardest one. I would ck the high school board if people have condensed Omni, but I doubt it.

 

I never looked into VP for long-term, so I have no idea what a good progression would be, or if the VP manuals would be too light for 7-8 grade. I can't comment on the Scholars lesson plans or the online courses either. Anyone else know this?

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No worries! :) I only started this thread to respond to someone's questions about VP.

 

 

 

We are doing TOG this yr for the 1st time too and I was hoping it would solve my problems of trying to work with an on-level 2nd grader and advanced 5th grader. I've always pieced history/lit curric together myself to make it custom fit, and I thought I could use TOG as the opposite: as a buffet that I could pare back to what I want.

 

Alas, we are having the same issues as Melissa. Exactly what she said above: jumping around trying to find answers in books, PLUS we realized we need a narrative spine. I also realized I don't necessarily want to spend that much of our time on history.

 

I'm really bummed; I was hoping it would work for us long-term.

 

Oy. I can see these being an issue for us too. Uh oh. What am I getting into? :001_huh:

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If I want a 4-yr. world history for 5th - 8th gr., can I use VP? I thought they do 2 6-yr. world history cycles. I've always thought it would be too much to condense their 6 yrs. down into 4 yrs. Also, don't they start Omni in 7th? Do you see a way VP could work for me that I don't?

 

To what degree of detail do the new lesson plans go (daily? weekly?)? Before they offered those, their catalogs looked to me like a mess of great books. Great quality books, but a mess that I would have to figure out what to do with. Do the lesson plans remedy this, or did I misunderstand in the first place?

 

I haven't seen the scripted lesson plans, so I can't comment on that...BUT, you can definitely use VP in a 4 year cycle and I found it best in 5-8th grades. I did use it multi-level with a children in all 3 stages...using the cards as a spine, a narrative history (SOTW, Story of Mankind) or a textbook for my olders (Omnibus + Spielvogels.)

 

I like VP cards and worksheets for my Logic stage kids because it sort of binds together what we are studying. Rather than using VP as the spine, I use it as the glue, if that makes sense.

 

So, anyway...the 2 ancient years can be combined easily by either removing the redundant cards (the Bible cards overlap) if you are usin g VP Bible, or using a Bible card and a historical event card in one week. Sometimes we used a card over 2 weeks, especially if rabbit trails came in...etc.

 

I really liked VP cards. I found Omnibus 1 way too icky for my tastes...so we did mostly the secondary books. My eeeeewwwww factor played a part here.

 

Again, I liked VP because it simplified my planning and helped "glue" my sources together and give us a focus for our pegs.

 

VP is so flexible to use with WTM lists or Ambleside Online...or a typical text...or SOTW etc.

 

It is much less complicated to implement than many other programs.

 

Faithe

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If I want a 4-yr. world history for 5th - 8th gr., can I use VP? I thought they do 2 6-yr. world history cycles. I've always thought it would be too much to condense their 6 yrs. down into 4 yrs. Also, don't they start Omni in 7th? Do you see a way VP could work for me that I don't?

 

Veritas Press takes five years for their first history rotation, which is followed by two three year rotations with Omnibus.

 

You could use their five elementary sets for the logic stage and hold off on Omnibus for high school. Many condense the two ancients sets into one year. I have in the past. The elementary sets can easily be beefed up for seventh and eighth graders; add in WTM style outlines and summaries, and some extra literature (Either from WTM or from the two Omnibus levels you'll end up skipping).

 

Omnibus I, II, and III are taught to the same level, so when you get to Omnibus in ninth grade, start with the one that is next in your history rotation. You can finish the first three before beginning the second rotation, or just jump into the second rotation where you are chronologically. For example, You could do II in ninth, VI in tenth, IV in eleventh, and V in twelfth.

 

 

To what degree of detail do the new lesson plans go (daily? weekly?)? Before they offered those, their catalogs looked to me like a mess of great books. Great quality books, but a mess that I would have to figure out what to do with. Do the lesson plans remedy this, or did I misunderstand in the first place?
They give daily plans. You can see samples here.

 

 

 

 

VP does use narrative spines, such as Streams of Civilization. My kids call it SOTW for big kids.

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I haven't seen the scripted lesson plans, so I can't comment on that...BUT, you can definitely use VP in a 4 year cycle and I found it best in 5-8th grades. I did use it multi-level with a children in all 3 stages...using the cards as a spine, a narrative history (SOTW, Story of Mankind) or a textbook for my olders (Omnibus + Spielvogels.)

 

I like VP cards and worksheets for my Logic stage kids because it sort of binds together what we are studying. Rather than using VP as the spine, I use it as the glue, if that makes sense.

 

So, anyway...the 2 ancient years can be combined easily by either removing the redundant cards (the Bible cards overlap) if you are usin g VP Bible, or using a Bible card and a historical event card in one week. Sometimes we used a card over 2 weeks, especially if rabbit trails came in...etc.

 

I really liked VP cards. I found Omnibus 1 way too icky for my tastes...so we did mostly the secondary books. My eeeeewwwww factor played a part here.

 

Again, I liked VP because it simplified my planning and helped "glue" my sources together and give us a focus for our pegs.

 

VP is so flexible to use with WTM lists or Ambleside Online...or a typical text...or SOTW etc.

 

It is much less complicated to implement than many other programs.

 

Faithe

 

:thumbup: Faithe, I just seem to follow you around. I was considering using just the VP cards next year for memory work and maybe some of the books because I have the ones they use. I wasn't sure about using the worksheets, ds is only in 3rd grade.

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:thumbup: Faithe, I just seem to follow you around. I was considering using just the VP cards next year for memory work and maybe some of the books because I have the ones they use. I wasn't sure about using the worksheets, ds is only in 3rd grade.

 

Hahaha...I would not subject my 3rd grader to worksheets like those, but they are nice to have. They give me points to teach...and discuss or drill the kids on during the week. I have used the cards in 4th grade or up to teach key word outlines re: IEW. I DO have my 5-8th graders use them to answer in full sentences. I like having the TM for ideas...which is NOT how VP wants it to be used...but, I paid my money for it, so I feel I can use it how I want to use it...KWIM?? (I am such a brat!)

 

Faithe (Whose kids are always a few years behind the "recommended" age and stages of the Trivium)

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I wouldn't give a 3rd grader the worksheets either, fwiw. :) Mine start those in 4th or 5th. I'd go over the questions and main points orally with a third grader. Those fill in the blank worksheets are good for that age, but not every lesson has one.

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Hahaha...I would not subject my 3rd grader to worksheets like those, but they are nice to have. They give me points to teach...and discuss or drill the kids on during the week. I have used the cards in 4th grade or up to teach key word outlines re: IEW. I DO have my 5-8th graders use them to answer in full sentences. I like having the TM for ideas...which is NOT how VP wants it to be used...but, I paid my money for it, so I feel I can use it how I want to use it...KWIM?? (I am such a brat!)

 

Faithe (Whose kids are always a few years behind the "recommended" age and stages of the Trivium)

 

 

 

Faithe, can I just say how much I absolutely adore you? I will definitely NOT give the worksheets to my 3rd grader, but will save them for later. I agree that you spent your money on the TM and can use it how you see fit, I must adopt that attitude with my curriculum. Thank you so much for the idea of using the VP cards to teach KWO, I don't know why I didn't think of doing that myself. Thank you!!!

 

Des (Whose kids are also always a few years behind the "recommended" age and stages of the Trivium)

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Oy. I can see these being an issue for us too. Uh oh. What am I getting into? :001_huh:

 

Jane, what TOG year are you going to do this next year and what ages?

 

I thought to alleviate the problem by only using the primary reading and not the in-depth, but unfortunately the questions are not taken from just the primary history selections. One never really knows exactly where the questions are coming from. :confused:

 

We didn't have a problem in Y1 because at that time I required very little answering of questions independently. We instead did a lot of discussing together. My ds did his readings independently, and all his mapwork, then we would come together and discuss. His favorite cycle in history is Ancients, so he very much enjoys talking about and reading about the different cultures. TOG's Y1 was especially heavy in bible history tho, which was a different twist than other programs we have used throughout the years. Anyhow, had I not decided in 8th grade he should be able to answer his questions on paper, we would probably still be using TOG. He wasn't too hip on the Primary and in-depth books either though...so who knows. It was just a very confusing mixture for him. He couldn't keep all the people clear in his mind when jumping from European history and what was going on there, to American history, and then back again. I know what TOG is/was trying to do, but I think something like that perhaps would be better accomplished in one book, not two completely unrelated books.

 

Just for clarity purposes my ds used TOG Y1 in one year (6th). Last year (7th)we did TOG Y2, units 1 and 2 with success, spreading them out and filling in with more middle ages stuff from The Teaching Company, etc. This year (8th) we began Y2, units 3 & 4. I personally will miss TOG, but I can respect my ds's decision that history not be quite so confusing. :tongue_smilie: Our future history choice is still up in the air, but I can't wait to get my Omnibus III! I'm looking forward to studying a few of the books for myself and then decide if it would work well for my ds next year.

 

The one thing I absolutely loved was TOG's worldview. Reading about the Church Fathers, etc. was fascinating for us (I recommend the Rh level Church History book over the D level though as it's more interesting and less confusing...we always read this aloud) Omni III looks like it will be very interesting in that (worldview) respect. ;)

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So would I be able to use the VP cards and workbooks with an 8th grader? I am trying to firm up my ds's 8th grade history. We are finishing up 2 years of American history. Before that we did MOH 1 and 2. So I am thinking of either returning to MOH 3 or something else. The VP curriculum has always intrigued me. Thoughts????

 

Thanks!

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Chris, you'd have to work very hard to flesh it out for that age. I'd get MOH3 and be done with it. It doesn't even correspond well. MOH2 would be roughly equivalent to VP MARR (though still covering more). VP is very much a less is more approach. You stick to western, not the whole world, and you pare it down to a sequence that gives you the big picture. People flesh it out, do other cultures during the summer, etc., but it's definitely much more streamlined. It wouldn't make sense after what you've done. The ONLY option you might have with the lower sequence would be if you had no retention from all those years and wanted to spend a single year as overview, doing all the cards. But I highly doubt your dc needs that, not with what you've done.

 

Have you thought about just going into Omnibus?

 

In any event, MOH3 makes a lot of sense to me, from what you're saying. Unless you don't want to do it.

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Thanks Elizabeth. That helps. I have been looking at Omnibus but I am not sure my ds is ready for it yet. I am hoping to check it out at a convention this summer. I am leaning towards MOH because we've alreay done volumes 1 and 2 and his retention of the material has been decent. Oh decisions, decisions...... :confused:

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:drool: A less is more approach, you say??? That sounds absolutely delightful.

 

ETA: Faithe, I just answered my own question by going back through this thread & reading your posts again. I see you used SOTW with VP. Would you mind sharing what exactly from VP you did use? The link someone posted was a sample fo their Scholars lessons, which I'm assuming are the scripted lessons you said you never used. There seems to be so many different options and pieces available from VP... I can't tell which you're talking about when you reference a TM. I'll go look at their site for awhile now. :) Thanks for you time & help.

 

 

 

 

Here was my original question before I edited:

 

Maybe I can narrow this down:

In the fall, I'll have an 8yo 3rd grader & a 10yo 5th grader. They both want SOTW. I want Bible history, church history, and missionary bios woven in. I was thinking of doing SOTW, plus WTM logic stage history for the 5th grader, plus something to add Christian history to it (which, by the amount of things we'd be doing & time we'd be spending - myself included, in finding & lining up things - would likely tip it over into the realm of "Too Much"). This would be their 1st run through world history except for a little bit of Ancients a couple years ago. We've been doing US History instead, waiting for when it's "time" for the cycle to start again in 5th.

 

I'm wondering what I'd do when my boys get to 7th and 5th grades, if the 7th grader has to do an Omnibus for it to be grade appropriate but I want to keep them studying the same era (and topics, preferably) for history. What do you suggest in my situation for utilizing VP?

 

Thanks for all the help, btw! This opens up something I thought I couldn't even consider.

Edited by Annabel Lee
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Arctic--for those ages I would do the VP MARR online self-paced course and do the missionary biographies together as your read aloud. The MARR online class is FABULOUS, absolutely fabulous.

 

Disclaimer: I hate teaching history. Any time I can toss it off, I do, lol. But dd LOVED the online self-paced course. They do so much with additional material and fleshing it out. They added wonderful review games. Basically it was just so much more than *I* ever could have done for her. If they want the church history, VP MARR will be the way to get it. Then they can listen to SOTW2 in the car. Best of both worlds. :)

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Wow, I just "got back" from the VP site. My jaw is on the floor and so is my husband's. Why have I been making history so hard on myself again?

 

Is there a reason you recommend starting with MARR instead of Ancients? By VP's schedule (back at Ancients for 7th), I'd be off either way.

 

ETA: Sorry for totally hijacking the thread. Hopefully my questions will help someone else out there, too. :P

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:drool: A less is more approach, you say??? That sounds absolutely delightful.

 

ETA: Faithe, I just answered my own question by going back through this thread & reading your posts again. I see you used SOTW with VP. Would you mind sharing what exactly from VP you did use? The link someone posted was a sample fo their Scholars lessons, which I'm assuming are the scripted lessons you said you never used. There seems to be so many different options and pieces available from VP... I can't tell which you're talking about when you reference a TM. I'll go look at their site for awhile now. :) Thanks for you time & help.

 

 

 

 

Here was my original question before I edited:

 

Maybe I can narrow this down:

In the fall, I'll have an 8yo 3rd grader & a 10yo 5th grader. They both want SOTW. I want Bible history, church history, and missionary bios woven in. I was thinking of doing SOTW, plus WTM logic stage history for the 5th grader, plus something to add Christian history to it (which, by the amount of things we'd be doing & time we'd be spending - myself included, in finding & lining up things - would likely tip it over into the realm of "Too Much"). This would be their 1st run through world history except for a little bit of Ancients a couple years ago. We've been doing US History instead, waiting for when it's "time" for the cycle to start again in 5th.

 

I'm wondering what I'd do when my boys get to 7th and 5th grades, if the 7th grader has to do an Omnibus for it to be grade appropriate but I want to keep them studying the same era (and topics, preferably) for history. What do you suggest in my situation for utilizing VP?

 

Thanks for all the help, btw! This opens up something I thought I couldn't even consider.

 

Ok, I will try and tell you what we do....

 

I started out with Ancients....combining the first 2 sets into 1 year (ish) as it spread a bit into the 2nd year. I had a 3rd grader, 7th and 10th and 12th graders at the time. My 12th grader did not do History or Lit with us at that year.

 

So, anyway, the TM I referred to is the Student Book/workbook whatever they call it. I did not use any scripted plans.

 

I used SOTW as our narrative for my younger kids (3rd grader plus 2 little guys who were not in school yet, but were in the room and did the coloring pages.) My 7th grader used Omnibus 1 and my 10th grader used Spielvogel and the Great Books list from WTM and some other resources often using similar books as grade 7 son, and sometimes using Omnibus as well.

 

For our weekly schedule, we read our card on Monday, did a timeline exercise (The song or going over what was on our timeline.) I went through the first few cards in ancients pretty quickly as my kids already knew most of the Bible content. We used Ruth Beechick's Genesis : Finding Our Roots as our Bible study...taking about 4 weeks to go through it with the first 5 or 6 cards.

 

I digress.....

 

Anyway....we would look at the card, read the card, review orally the questions on Monday. On Tues we would review the card, review the questions, then read our chapter from SOTW, color the coloring page and do the map. On Wednesday we would review the cards we had already covered...review some of the questions, do some other reading from the AG or card. We would use the card for writing time, either copy work or key word outlining. On Thursday we would continue other readings, do a quick review and finish our wiriting either from the key word outline or some more copy work or dictation. On Friday, we would do a quick quiz of the card and then do a project from the SOTW AG, history pockets or from the VP manual.

 

During this time my 7th grader would be doing his Omni I which gave references to the cards, and he used Streams of Civilization for his outlining and history textbook.... My 10th grader would use Spielvogels..My 3rd grader often looked at the Usborne book, if I had a 5th grader, we would be looking at the corresponding Kingfisher pages. They all liked to listen to SOTW...and the read alouds I chose were fun for all of the kids.

 

Being me, I always included art history, music appreciation and poetry along with our history/ literature studies.

 

We are now 4 years later...finishing up SOTW 4 and VP 1815-Present. We did not use MARR because I just don't like that set. We also left lots of wiggle room to study things that interest us. Sometimes I used the cards to plan my week, but my kids never saw the card!...LOL. During the 4ish years...My 12 grader graduated, my 10th grader graduated, my 7th grader is almost graduated and my 2 little kids jumped into class somewhere in SOTW 3....So, things have been moving and grooving.

 

We will be starting VP again next year at the beginning with my then 4th and 2nd graders. My 7th grader will be doing Omni 1....with other readings from AO or WTM. My lesson plans are like a big mishmash of so many bits and pieces of different curricula....It looks like stew...LOL...but it works for us.

 

The one thing I do is try to keep what I use simple, and easy to implement, but something the kids can dig in deeply if they want to, or skim if they want, but still cover enough to be literate:D

 

There is a sort of schedule in the beginning of each VP workbook which I based my history routine on. For us repetition is key to retention and understanding. I can't tell you how many times I hear one of my kids say...OOOOOHHHHH, now I get it....on Wednesday, after we covered the card 3 times already....:001_huh:

 

LOL

 

So, I hope this helped somewhat. Don't think you have to be all over the place like I am. It is just my nature to make easy things as difficult as possible. It is very easy and thorough to follow VP's guide without adding in many bells and whistles. I just love books and so do my kids...so I use AO, WTM, Sonlight, TOG lists to add to our studies.

 

Gotta run put some barfy kids to bed...and work on my lesson planning for next semester....LOL

 

Faithe

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Guest aquiverfull
Wow, I just "got back" from the VP site. My jaw is on the floor and so is my husband's. Why have I been making history so hard on myself again?

 

 

 

Seriously!! LOL I make it so hard on myself as well. I bought VP 1815 to Mod during spring to use this school year. After switching and trying several different things... TOG, Trail Guide to Learning (POE), Truthquest, etc.. here we are back again with VP to finish out the year. We're having to work much faster because we just started right before the Christmas break, but I'm ready to be done with American history! Those great VP cards make history sooooo simple! It's a breath of fresh air for us. I don't know what we are going to do next year. Omnibus just doesn't call to me. I know I want to go back to Ancients so we'll see.

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We are doing TOG this yr for the 1st time too and I was hoping it would solve my problems of trying to work with an on-level 2nd grader and advanced 5th grader. I've always pieced history/lit curric together myself to make it custom fit, and I thought I could use TOG as the opposite: as a buffet that I could pare back to what I want.

 

Alas, we are having the same issues as Melissa. Exactly what she said above: jumping around trying to find answers in books, PLUS we realized we need a narrative spine. I also realized I don't necessarily want to spend that much of our time on history.

 

I'm really bummed; I was hoping it would work for us long-term.

 

Oy. I can see these being an issue for us too. Uh oh. What am I getting into? :001_huh:

SWBs new high school history books may do the narrative trick for you and TOG. I imagine there is already somebody who has the schedule all plugged in for Ancients! I read the first 1/3 of the book and enjoyed it. I love the narrative style, too. I think ds will also.

 

My D-level issues on questions have been all about editions. Getting page numbers in line matters. The yahoo group helps a bunch with this. If all else fails, the teacher's notes take care of business for me.

 

I'm closing my eyes and ears about VP...easy sounds good...but piecing together plans, not so much.....la la la la la la I'm not listening.

 

For textbook lovers, we did get plenty of use from Streams of Civilizations when it was planned in TOG ;)

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My 7th, 5th and 2nd graders and I started BP Ancients at the beginning of this school year. I like parts of BP, but I don't like Parent Companion.

 

Parent Companion is supposed to link the history with the Bible. I don't like it because I just read and read and read it, and by Christmas break, we all had had ENOUGH of it.

I have been trying to find something that will take the place of Parent Companion: something that links Bible history with Ancient history and something that is consice. Would VP cards help us?

 

Right now, we're using SotW as a spine with BP's Cool History and their maps and timeline (not crazy about the TL). We're doing SWB's middle school outlining/writing by using Usborns I'net Linked Enc., the red Kingfisher, and Streams of Civilization. We also fold in Mystery of History since BP has that on their schedule. I also play Diana Waring History Alive CDs when they fit in. We're using a lot of sources, but I feel like I don't have anything that provides the *glue* as one poster said. I need a source that gives Biblical and historical context..... something that gives us the big picture.

 

I want to use the VP cards to take the place of Parent Companion and timeline. I want this to link Biblical and historical history for us.

 

Will this work???

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Alabama--Have you seen the demo video on the VP website? Might give you some clue. I think you're right on track.

 

Faithe--Interestingly, I felt the same way you do about the VP MARR cards. However the online self-paced class really brings a lot to it and fleshes them out, puts them in a more narrative light. I wish they'd flesh out the tm's as much as they do the online stuff. :)

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Alabama--Have you seen the demo video on the VP website? Might give you some clue. I think you're right on track.

 

Faithe--Interestingly, I felt the same way you do about the VP MARR cards. However the online self-paced class really brings a lot to it and fleshes them out, puts them in a more narrative light. I wish they'd flesh out the tm's as much as they do the online stuff. :)

 

OK...I need to know about these self paced courses. They looked kind of Hokey to me from the sample...but then again the sample was for OT/AE, so meant for 2nd graders. They don't have the 1815-Present ready, which is what I need now.

 

My ds did Omni 3 with scholars Online and I was a little less than impressed.

Bruce Etter was a really great teacher, and I loved that ds got to do a class with him, but I really hated HOW the material was covered...fast and furious ...to say the least.

 

Faithe

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Alabama--Have you seen the demo video on the VP website? Might give you some clue. I think you're right on track.

 

Faithe--Interestingly, I felt the same way you do about the VP MARR cards. However the online self-paced class really brings a lot to it and fleshes them out, puts them in a more narrative light. I wish they'd flesh out the tm's as much as they do the online stuff. :)

 

 

Elizabeth, I guess I haven't seen the video. I went to the web site, but I don't know what to search for. Can you provide a link or tell me how to look it up on their web site??? Thanks!:001_smile:

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Faithe, any of the self-paced classes will be fine for the ages for which they are intended (2nd-6th). I asked them a while back, and they'll even let you do the multi-child discount with one dc. So you could take an older dc who hasn't done a survey of history and do 1, 2, or even all 5 (if they were really adventurous!) in one year. It took my dd about 2 1/2 hours to do one card worth of lessons. They'd have to be a history nut to want to do all that in a year. :)

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Faithe--Interestingly, I felt the same way you do about the VP MARR cards. However the online self-paced class really brings a lot to it and fleshes them out, puts them in a more narrative light. I wish they'd flesh out the tm's as much as they do the online stuff. :)

 

Now that I've looked at plently of samples & watched the videos of the online self-paced classes, it looks like the regular TMs contain more than the online stuff. But all I've seen are samples of each. What do you mean by the part I bolded above? What is "left out" of the TMs vs. the online stuff?

 

The samples make it seem as though the way you cover the content varies depending on which teaching medium (TM, Online, or Scholars lessons) you use. Unless you're supposed to use the regular TM with the Online classes and Scholars lessons... in which case I missed that. The TM has projects, maps, & coloring pages; the Online classes have a literature component with reading assignments (is there more to it than that? do they ever discuss? is this reading schedule in the TM too?). Seems like the 2 should be mixed for optimal results. Maybe they are and I just don't realize it. :confused:

 

Faithe, thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I'm copying parts of it to my ever-growing "curriculum choices" word doc. :D Hope that's OK. I really like the idea of using VP as our Christian History glue for SOTW (for Zeke) and WTM logic-stage history (for Abe). That's what I was looking for orignally anyhow... we'll see. I also REALLY like that VP is enough - the whole meat of the lesson is contained within it - so that if all we get around to is VP, the kids still did a full history lesson & there's no fretting over it.

 

I have to go play with my ideas and familiarize myself more w/ all the pieces I'm considering so that one subject doesn't end up crowding out others in my homeschool next year. I tend to enjoy planning & lining up more and more (and more) resources that go along w/ our studies... but the time comittment for that gets old, and history isn't my either of my boy's favorite subject.

 

Thanks ladies!

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Arctic, they aren't doing the free trial right now, which is such a bummer for people like you! What you're not seeing is that they tell all kinds of behind the scenes stories and TELL the history. They teach it, with narratives, maps, etc. It's totally fleshed out. The tm has a pretty similar set-up for each card: questions, hands-on, writing, and analysis pages, an occasional lit guide, and then the final questions as a test. It's not your typical tm, like say BJU, where they give you lots of extra info and stuff. You're supposed to get all that by doing the reading sited on the cards or correlated in the catalog. That's all great, but it's really up to YOU to flesh it out. The self-paced classes do all that for you! They're FABULOUS. They'll be telling about so and so, pop up his picture, keep talking, show where he taught, keep talking, show a map where he went next. It's just very alive.

 

You don't need the tm if you do the online class. You could if you wanted. The hands-on are easy to implement and would be fine. You could have them do some of the writing exercises. But truly, the online class all by itself would be enough. Get a hands-on book for your topic and do it once a week. Write in your other courses.

 

Scholars has the lessons all scripted out. That's for people who want to do it themselves. If you want something independent, you just can't go wrong with the online version.

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So... this week for history, before jumping back into our U.S. history, I had my boys do the 4 sample Self-Paced Online lessons. I called VP with some questions, and they say the online samples are full actual lessons. Abe & Zeke's take? "Boring, but at least it's over with faster." (Meaning faster than history is usually.) Rats.

 

I guess I'll study the samples of the TM and the books they use to get a better feel for the written program. It's hard without all of it spread out right in front of you, kwim? I already have some of the books & maybe the library will have some, too.

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We are doing our second self-paced course this year. Last year when I was deciding whether to enroll, I had my dc watch the sample lessons. The younger dc (fourth grade) really like it. The older dc liked it too, but dc thought that because it had talking statutes and sphinx, that it might be too childish for someone as dc (sixth grader...HA! that's a LAUGH!) :lol:

 

I did end up enrolling the younger dc. Dc really loved doing OT/Ancient Egypt and we enrolled again this past fall for NT/Ancient Rome, and is enjoying it even more. Older dc will actually sit with younger dc to catch the lesson and try the games......so much for being toooo mature!

 

They both GENUINELY enjoy history this way. And these kids never enjoyed doing history before, especially not "book" history. Me neither.

 

I really like the way the material is presented, to me it feels like I'm watching a really good "reality" soap opera...I wanna know what comes next, who does what, who says what ( even though I already know). Maybe silly of me, but I was never taught history this way either....and I kinda enjoy watching too! :D

 

Bottom line: It really works for our homeschool.

 

My 2 cents.

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