Need help with high school Ds... long major venting

[AnitaMcC]

Okay, I am at my wits end here with Ds#1

 

As posted before... he is a borderline genius dx with asthma, Asperger Syndrome, Sensory Integration Disorder, and ADD.

 

In 8th grade he placed into college level courses. We tried him with a course 2nd semester of 9th grade. It was a introductory computer course and academically he did fine. He struggled a bit on the ethics papers that were required but he got through them. He was late turning in some assignments but the work itself was good. The issue is that he struggles with the independence and organizational aspects of college course.

 

But the college course isn't the big issue here.... the issue is with his courses he does at home!!!!!!

 

He wanted to graduate high school early and then attend CC full time for two years before transfering to a university. He wants to study astrophysics. All through public school (we started hsing 9th grade) I was told that homeschooling would fit better for him as he could go his own accelerated pace. Repeatedly I was told by his teachers (especially math and science) that he learns/master the material in first 10 minutes of class and then sits the rest of the time bored (and refusing to do "wasting time" assignments). So for years the ps waived many of his assignments if he did well on the exams. I think that he was able to do this because he was receiving some information in the lectures and it was enough for him to get by on the exams.

 

But at home it isn't working out. The issue is he is so very.very.very.slow at getting the assignments done. What takes most people 45 minutes takes him 8 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

 

He says he wants to do the work on his own. He hates having anyone around him when he is doing school work. But he gets nothing done!!!!! He is so far behind in his education and the pace he is going... he will be lucky to graduate high school by the time he is 21 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

 

I really don't know what to do. :confused: :crying: :banghead:

 

I am so worried that I am ruining him. For right now the only courses I am having him do are:

 

Composition Essays: We do a "3 week cycle". We are using "Writing Clear Essays" as a text. It has 14 chapters. Week 1: He is to read a chapter and do a few assignments. Week 2: Write a 2 page essay based on what chapter topic was covered in the essay text. Week 3: Do an practice SAT essay prompt (Monday, he gets 2 hours to write the paper like if he was taking the SAT test, then he can edit it, rewrite it, and type final draft due by Friday of same week.

 

World History II: Read the chapter, do section homework questions in text book. Do on-line quizzes/chapter tests from publisher site. Do a unit project (there are total of 5 units this year).

 

Precalculus: Read and practice problems for each section (up to him how many problems to do), do the chapter tests on line, and every 3 chapters or so do a cumulative exam. That is it. The problems he completes for assignments is all up to him.

 

Chemistry (17 chapters): Read the Chapter, Do homework problems, do chapter quiz on line at publishers website, Do 7 cumulative exams. We haven't even attempted the labs... he is only on chapter 5!!!!

 

Science Fiction Literature: for 1/2 credit he is to read 5 books, Complete a reading journal for 5 books, and write 2 book reports. He has 4 weeks to complete each book.

 

And he still needs to finish some 9th grade courses: Health,World History I, and World Literature. He is about 3/4 of the way done on all of these.

 

I know that sending him to ps is not what is best for him, he isn't ready to handle full college courses, but homeschooling him isn't working!!!!!! I have no other options!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh and it doesn't help that Dh is saying I absolutely cannot put a grade lower than a C on the transcripts and that Ds will graduate on time no.matter.what. But how??? The kid isn't going to finish hardly any of the courses fully. And it absolutely would not be right nor fair that his twin sister is getting all the work done (actually more!!!!) and doing her best to get good grades. I refuse to do what the ps has done for 9 years.... letting Ds go on without getting the work completed. Just isn't right IMO.

 

Thank you for letting me rant and vent my frustrations.

[JennW in SoCal]

Anita -- My 15yo took the California high school equivalency exam so that he can start community college full time. He is a bright kid, with no issues (I went through the Aspie/ADHD thing with his big brother), but he is ready for something other than mom. And after getting that older kid launched into the real world, the fight in me was simply gone. I had thought my 15yo would do math and science at the CC and literature and such at home, but it wasn't working.

 

With Spanish, college algebra and chemistry, he technically will have a full load as each course is worth more credit hours than your typical college class. He isn't ready to handle more than that, and I've decided it is ok -- he is only 15, this college campus fits him, and he can take his time over the next 2 or 3 years before he transfers to a 4 year.

 

My oldest did better homeschooling through a hybrid charter school, one that offered support for homeschoolers but also offered a few traditional classes. It gave him the accountability he needed. For my younger, the charter was not challenging enough, hence the CC classes.

 

All this to say, I feel your pain and frustration. Some of it is age -- they become human again around the age of 16. A lot of it is just needing someone other than mom to answer to. Yes homeschooling lets him go at his pace and lets you tailor his work, but sometimes it doesn't work. I took my CC kid to an open house at a good Liberal Arts college, and it really made him get serious about his CC classes as he realized those grades are his key to moving on. Somehow homeschool and my nagging, motivational speeches, and occasional sarcasm never seemed to reach him!

[MSNative]

Sounds like there are a few issues going on here. First and foremost, you and dh need to be on the same page. Have you calmly discussed the problems with ds and all possible solutions with him? This may help you figure out why he is insisting that ds graduate on time and perhaps help you both think through what would happen if he didn't graduate on time. Once you and dh are in sync, hopefully it will take a bunch of stress off you.

 

Seems like the main issues may be motivation and time management with your son. I know he hates having anyone in the room with him, but if he's not getting the work done, then accomodating his wishes may no longer be an option. Few ideas that you've probably tried but work for mine- sit in the room with him doing other work and keeping him on task. Try a timer. When my kids finish a math problem, they write down the time on the timer. It's not a speed thing. It just lets me know what is taking them longer and keeps them focused. Give him a planner and have him schedule out his day - including fun time. Let him know if he doesn't finish work, he won't get to do the fun stuff. The book "The Crumpled Paper on the Floor is My Homework" has great ideas and insights into some of these habits.

 

Could something other than time management problems be slowing him down. For example, could typing insttead of writing or using Dragon insead of typing help him out? Worked beautifully for a friend's Apsy son. Just a thought. I know you'll get lots of better advice from others.

 

From what you've written, you seem like you are doing a great job. You are not asking the moon from your son, but you are wanting him to work hard and efficiently and get a good education. Kudos to you for not taking the easy way out.

[AnitaMcC]

Anita -- My 15yo took the California high school equivalency exam so that he can start community college full time. He is a bright kid, with no issues (I went through the Aspie/ADHD thing with his big brother), but he is ready for something other than mom. And after getting that older kid launched into the real world, the fight in me was simply gone. I had thought my 15yo would do math and science at the CC and literature and such at home, but it wasn't working.

 

With Spanish, college algebra and chemistry, he technically will have a full load as each course is worth more credit hours than your typical college class. He isn't ready to handle more than that, and I've decided it is ok -- he is only 15, this college campus fits him, and he can take his time over the next 2 or 3 years before he transfers to a 4 year.

 

My oldest did better homeschooling through a hybrid charter school, one that offered support for homeschoolers but also offered a few traditional classes. It gave him the accountability he needed. For my younger, the charter was not challenging enough, hence the CC classes.

 

All this to say, I feel your pain and frustration. Some of it is age -- they become human again around the age of 16. A lot of it is just needing someone other than mom to answer to. Yes homeschooling lets him go at his pace and lets you tailor his work, but sometimes it doesn't work. I took my CC kid to an open house at a good Liberal Arts college, and it really made him get serious about his CC classes as he realized those grades are his key to moving on. Somehow homeschool and my nagging, motivational speeches, and occasional sarcasm never seemed to reach him!

 

Part of the issue is $$$.. Here in IL, we have to pay for dual credit courses. I was so hesitant to pay out nearly $1500 a semester for CC classes and he fail. That is a lot of money and money is tight.

 

But also, he struggled with the one CC course he took last year and it was an "easy" course for him... introductory computer course. He loved the course and said it was easy.. but he got a C+. To be honest I am not sure what happened when he was at CC. The professor wasn't big on communicating to mommy. :001_huh: A teen (especially an autistic teen) just isn't going to tell mom and dad what he messed up on or what he needs help with. At least he never has asked for any sort of help for anything all his life...

 

Honestly it would be so much easier to have him graduate as soon as possible. Then he could apply for grants (and as I am a 100% disabled veteran he would get funds from the Veterans Affairs). But that isn't the way to go.

 

We are trying to move to PA and their homeschooling laws are much tougher than here in IL. But they offer free cyber schools and some free dual credit courses for junior/senior students.

[AnitaMcC]

Sounds like there are a few issues going on here. First and foremost, you and dh need to be on the same page. Have you calmly discussed the problems with ds and all possible solutions with him? This may help you figure out why he is insisting that ds graduate on time and perhaps help you both think through what would happen if he didn't graduate on time. Once you and dh are in sync, hopefully it will take a bunch of stress off you.

 

Yes we are working on this... just haven't found the solution.

 

Seems like the main issues may be motivation and time management with your son. I know he hates having anyone in the room with him, but if he's not getting the work done, then accomodating his wishes may no longer be an option. Few ideas that you've probably tried but work for mine- sit in the room with him doing other work and keeping him on task. Try a timer. When my kids finish a math problem, they write down the time on the timer. It's not a speed thing. It just lets me know what is taking them longer and keeps them focused. Give him a planner and have him schedule out his day - including fun time. Let him know if he doesn't finish work, he won't get to do the fun stuff. The book "The Crumpled Paper on the Floor is My Homework" has great ideas and insights into some of these habits.

 

Could something other than time management problems be slowing him down. For example, could typing insttead of writing or using Dragon insead of typing help him out? Worked beautifully for a friend's Apsy son. Just a thought. I know you'll get lots of better advice from others.

 

From what you've written, you seem like you are doing a great job. You are not asking the moon from your son, but you are wanting him to work hard and efficiently and get a good education. Kudos to you for not taking the easy way out.

 

Honestly we have no idea what is slowing him down. I can have him sit with me at the kitchen table and he still gets nothing done. He spaces out alot. He is allowed (and I encourage him) to use the computer for all his writing. I know part of the slowness is that he is very.slow.to.write. Actually me watching him write things out makes my hand hurt...:tongue_smilie:. But for some reason he says it is "faster". Um, yeah right dude....

 

I set a timer for him.. he stresses out over it. He will start arguing that the time given isn't long enough and when it does beep he gets worked up for not getting enough done. I haven't figured out how to get him to calm down!!!!!

 

I tried to have him use a planner... didn't work. So I make up a chart table that shows exactly what needs to get done that week (and all the following weeks to completion of school year) for each subject. All he has to do is check off what is completed and list the scores for the online quizzes/tests on the chart. I sit down with him every morning to go over what he has done up to that point, and what needs to get done by the end of the week. And then have him plan out what he will do that day.

 

He isn't getting the work done though and so he is weeks/months behind.

 

Part of it is motivation (he doesn't want to do the "work" part of showing his learning)... but he insists he just can't concentrate/focus. That it all is a jumbled mess in his head.

[8filltheheart]

Okay, I am at my wits end here with Ds#1

 

As posted before... he is a borderline genius dx with asthma, Asperger Syndrome, Sensory Integration Disorder, and ADD.

He was late turning in some assignments but the work itself was good. The issue is that he struggles with the independence and organizational aspects of college course.

 

But the college course isn't the big issue here.... the issue is with his courses he does at home!!!!!!

 

 

 

But at home it isn't working out. The issue is he is so very.very.very.slow at getting the assignments done. What takes most people 45 minutes takes him 8 hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

 

He says he wants to do the work on his own. He hates having anyone around him when he is doing school work. But he gets nothing done!!!!! He is so far behind in his education and the pace he is going... he will be lucky to graduate high school by the time he is 21 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

 

 

Precalculus: Read and practice problems for each section (up to him how many problems to do), do the chapter tests on line, and every 3 chapters or so do a cumulative exam. That is it. The problems he completes for assignments is all up to him.

 

Chemistry (17 chapters): Read the Chapter, Do homework problems, do chapter quiz on line at publishers website, Do 7 cumulative exams. We haven't even attempted the labs... he is only on chapter 5!!!!

 

 

 

And he still needs to finish some 9th grade courses: Health,World History I, and World Literature. He is about 3/4 of the way done on all of these.

 

 

Oh and it doesn't help that Dh is saying I absolutely cannot put a grade lower than a C on the transcripts and that Ds will graduate on time no.matter.what. But how??? The kid isn't going to finish hardly any of the courses fully. And it absolutely would not be right nor fair that his twin sister is getting all the work done (actually more!!!!) and doing her best to get good grades.

 

Thank you for letting me rant and vent my frustrations.

 

It actually sounds like the same issues are at play. His C+ at the CC could very well be from turning work in late. Due dates that aren't met are typically not accepted and a 0 given or the work is penalized pts.

 

You are doing him no favors by not setting firm deadlines with clear grading guidelines. Not giving any grade lower than a C is simply reinforcing the idea that deadlines are arbitrary.

 

I would give him daily assignments that must be completed for each subject. Each needs to be graded accordingly. He shouldn't be given a pass on incomplete work. These issues aren't going to be accepted at the college level.

 

FWIW.....I have an intelligent college age Aspie w/ADD, fine motor skill issues, and serious processing disorders (he is literally in the 1%ile for both auditory and visual processing speeds.) The only accommodations he receives are sitting in the front row, allowed to use a computer to type class notes during lectures, and extra time for tests. Deadlines for work are NOT flexible.

 

I would strongly encourage you to reconsider how you are approaching schoolwork b/c knowledge learned is only a small fraction of the goal that needs to be accomplished.

 

My youngest ds wants to major in astrophysics so we have spent a lot of time researching that field. I know from my Aspie that dealing with the real version of reality vs. his perceived version of reality is a huge source of problems. Perhaps meeting with the dean of a physics dept at a local university to discuss how class work is dealt with would help your ds get on board with the idea that **what** daily work needs to be done and **when** to turn it in is NOT up to him but is at the complete discretion of the teacher....you.

[AnitaMcC]

It actually sounds like the same issues are at play. His C+ at the CC could very well be from turning work in late. Due dates that aren't met are typically not accepted and a 0 given or the work is penalized pts.

 

You are doing him no favors by not setting firm deadlines with clear grading guidelines. Not giving any grade lower than a C is simply reinforcing the idea that deadlines are arbitrary.

 

I would give him daily assignments that must be completed for each subject. Each needs to be graded accordingly. He shouldn't be given a pass on incomplete work. These issues aren't going to be accepted at the college level.

 

FWIW.....I have an intelligent college age Aspie w/ADD, fine motor skill issues, and serious processing disorders (he is literally in the 1%ile for both auditory and visual processing speeds.) The only accommodations he receives are sitting in the front row, allowed to use a computer to type class notes during lectures, and extra time for tests. Deadlines for work are NOT flexible.

 

I would strongly encourage you to reconsider how you are approaching schoolwork b/c knowledge learned is only a small fraction of the goal that needs to be accomplished.

 

My youngest ds wants to major in astrophysics so we have spent a lot of time researching that field. I know from my Aspie that dealing with the real version of reality vs. his perceived version of reality is a huge source of problems. Perhaps meeting with the dean of a physics dept at a local university to discuss how class work is dealt with would help your ds get on board with the idea that **what** daily work needs to be done and **when** to turn it in is NOT up to him but is at the complete discretion of the teacher....you.

 

 

He was public schooled through 8th grade. That didn't do any good. All through school the teachers didn't help us instill in him the discipline he neede to complete the work on time.

 

He often got "Incomplete" on his midterm report card because he didn't do the assignments. But then later the teachers decided to just waive the assignments and gave him a C in the class. In math.. his teacher only graded him on tests.

 

Since Ds had an IEP for autism issues I think the teachers didn't want to get into trouble for giving a student in accelerated program an F and have to explain why...

 

So here I am trying to get him to understand that he does need to do work that he doesn't want to do... because it is just required and everyone does it to get a good grade. He really doesn't care about grades... he just wants to learn the material (but not show that he learned it).

 

One discussion that gets done often:

 

T: "I know the material"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "T you need to show your work so I can see you know it"

T: "I just told you I know it, so now you know"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "But you have to prove it by showing it"

T: "That is a waste of my time when I can just be reading more and learning more."

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "You will get an F if you don't do the work"

T: "But I know the material so why should I get an F?"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "T you have to prove your knowledge"

T: "Why do I have to prove it?"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "So we can know that you know it"

T: "I just told you I know it, so now you know"

 

Ah the logic of an Aspie!!!!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

Dh absolutely refuses to have any grades below a C on a homeschooling transcript and that Ds will graduate on time no.matter.what. Dh was totally against homeschooling for many years. He came around and decided it was a better option for our twins (we already put two other kids through the local high school and that didn't go over well.. even for the one who did nearly all honors and AP courses). But by this time the twins were in 7th grade. And I was completely exhausted with the ps and getting no help there.

 

So I have to find a way to reach Ds... to help him... to guide him to success. Dh thinks Ds is just lazy. I know that isn't the case... well not totally. I do think Ds was allowed to do his own thing for too long at school because the school really didn't know how to handle his autistic issues and now we need to change that programming in his brain.

[8filltheheart]

He was public schooled through 8th grade. That didn't do any good. All through school the teachers didn't help us instill in him the discipline he neede to complete the work on time.

 

He often got "Incomplete" on his midterm report card because he didn't do the assignments. But then later the teachers decided to just waive the assignments and gave him a C in the class. In math.. his teacher only graded him on tests.

 

Since Ds had an IEP for autism issues I think the teachers didn't want to get into trouble for giving a student in accelerated program an F and have to explain why...

 

So here I am trying to get him to understand that he does need to do work that he doesn't want to do... because it is just required and everyone does it to get a good grade. He really doesn't care about grades... he just wants to learn the material (but not show that he learned it).

 

One discussion that gets done often:

 

T: "I know the material"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "T you need to show your work so I can see you know it"

T: "I just told you I know it, so now you know"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "But you have to prove it by showing it"

T: "That is a waste of my time when I can just be reading more and learning more."

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "You will get an F if you don't do the work"

T: "But I know the material so why should I get an F?"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "T you have to prove your knowledge"

T: "Why do I have to prove it?"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "So we can know that you know it"

T: "I just told you I know it, so now you know"

 

Ah the logic of an Aspie!!!!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

Dh absolutely refuses to have any grades below a C on a homeschooling transcript and that Ds will graduate on time no.matter.what. Dh was totally against homeschooling for many years. He came around and decided it was a better option for our twins (we already put two other kids through the local high school and that didn't go over well.. even for the one who did nearly all honors and AP courses). But by this time the twins were in 7th grade. And I was completely exhausted with the ps and getting no help there.

 

So I have to find a way to reach Ds... to help him... to guide him to success. Dh thinks Ds is just lazy. I know that isn't the case... well not totally. I do think Ds was allowed to do his own thing for too long at school because the school really didn't know how to handle his autistic issues and now we need to change that programming in his brain.

 

Well, I am going to be brutally honest. Intelligence isn't going to make a lot of difference if your ds can't learn to conform. It has been a constant battle with our ds to get him to realize that his view of what is correct isn't correct and that just b/c that is his perception, it doesn't change reality.

 

The reality is that your ds is going to have to learn to complete assignments and accept that deadlines are part of the process for working toward a goal. If he truly wants to pursue astrophysics, then he has a long academic oriented training period ahead of him. Knowing the information isn't going to matter if he can't function within academia.

 

At this pt, it would appear that understanding the necessity of completing assignments and the mandatory nature of meeting deadlines are probably more important educational goals than core knowledge. Intelligence can make up the latter but it can't the former. If grades aren't motivators, you need to find out what are. Perhaps no screen time or video games or using his telescope (if he has one) or whatever he really loves until daily work is performed??? Or meeting with professional astrophysicists or academics that explain to him that daily performance is mandatory, not optional?? (for our ds, expert "testimony" holds a lot more weight than parental comments.)

 

Whatever it takes for your ds to accept that he has to comply with academic rules is probably going to provide him the best hope in actually being able to pursue a college degree. B/c the intelligence alone is only part of the picture. Made up grades on a report card in high school aren't going to matter at all once he is actually in college and expected to meet their grading criteria. His bad habits are going to matter significantly at that pt.

[AnitaMcC]

Well, I am going to be brutally honest. Intelligence isn't going to make a lot of difference if your ds can't learn to conform. It has been a constant battle with our ds to get him to realize that his view of what is correct isn't correct and that just b/c that is his perception, it doesn't change reality.

 

The reality is that your ds is going to have to learn to complete assignments and accept that deadlines are part of the process for working toward a goal. If he truly wants to pursue astrophysics, then he has a long academic oriented training period ahead of him. Knowing the information isn't going to matter if he can't function within academia.

 

At this pt, it would appear that understanding the necessity of completing assignments and the mandatory nature of meeting deadlines are probably more important educational goals than core knowledge. Intelligence can make up the latter but it can't the former. If grades aren't motivators, you need to find out what are. Perhaps no screen time or video games or using his telescope (if he has one) or whatever he really loves until daily work is performed??? Or meeting with professional astrophysicists or academics that explain to him that daily performance is mandatory, not optional?? (for our ds, expert "testimony" holds a lot more weight than parental comments.)

 

Whatever it takes for your ds to accept that he has to comply with academic rules is probably going to provide him the best hope in actually being able to pursue a college degree. B/c the intelligence alone is only part of the picture. Made up grades on a report card in high school aren't going to matter at all once he is actually in college and expected to meet their grading criteria. His bad habits are going to matter significantly at that pt.

 

This is my thoughts too. I have to get him to understand or at least just accept that he has to do certain things in order to accomplish his goal. That the goal doesn't just materialize out of thin air.

 

But at the same time I think he does want to do whatever it takes.. he just doesn't know how to get it done. He loves the online work because he just has to click the little circle or type the letter for the answer-LOL And he gets it correct without even really thinking about it. He doesn't really have to "do" anything then. But that won't help him succeed in life if he can't do the other stuff. He has to get it done and he has to figure out how to get it done. Some days he actually seems to get himself together and gets much more done. I wish I knew what was working for him at that time. The next day... the same set up would not work.

[kiana]

Well, I am going to be brutally honest. Intelligence isn't going to make a lot of difference if your ds can't learn to conform. It has been a constant battle with our ds to get him to realize that his view of what is correct isn't correct and that just b/c that is his perception, it doesn't change reality.

 

The reality is that your ds is going to have to learn to complete assignments and accept that deadlines are part of the process for working toward a goal. If he truly wants to pursue astrophysics, then he has a long academic oriented training period ahead of him. Knowing the information isn't going to matter if he can't function within academia.

 

At this pt, it would appear that understanding the necessity of completing assignments and the mandatory nature of meeting deadlines are probably more important educational goals than core knowledge. Intelligence can make up the latter but it can't the former. If grades aren't motivators, you need to find out what are. Perhaps no screen time or video games or using his telescope (if he has one) or whatever he really loves until daily work is performed??? Or meeting with professional astrophysicists or academics that explain to him that daily performance is mandatory, not optional?? (for our ds, expert "testimony" holds a lot more weight than parental comments.)

 

Whatever it takes for your ds to accept that he has to comply with academic rules is probably going to provide him the best hope in actually being able to pursue a college degree. B/c the intelligence alone is only part of the picture. Made up grades on a report card in high school aren't going to matter at all once he is actually in college and expected to meet their grading criteria. His bad habits are going to matter significantly at that pt.

 

What she said, 100%. With the addendum that bad grades in 'non-essential' college courses may very well stop him from attending graduate school at all. Many won't look at someone with below a 3.0, 3.5, some arbitrary cutoff, no matter how outstanding they are in other ways. High school grades can be overlooked with a good bachelor's. But it's the bachelor's that's going to determine whether he can get into graduate school, which is where he'll find his peer group and where he'll need to be.

[Dana]

What she said, 100%. With the addendum that bad grades in 'non-essential' college courses may very well stop him from attending graduate school at all. Many won't look at someone with below a 3.0, 3.5, some arbitrary cutoff, no matter how outstanding they are in other ways. High school grades can be overlooked with a good bachelor's. But it's the bachelor's that's going to determine whether he can get into graduate school, which is where he'll find his peer group and where he'll need to be.

 

I agree.

Although good scores on the GRE can help.

 

I don't know if it'll help, but he has seen what happens in a college course by not following the instructor's requirements. I teach math at a cc and my tests are a mixture of multiple choice (right/wrong) and free response (partial credit). On the free response portion if the student has the correct answer but no work, they don't get credit. Part of what I'm grading is that they can show the work correctly. It's how I know that they aren't making conceptual mistakes that will cause them problems in later classes. If all I cared about was the answer for a problem, students could punch the problem into a computer or calculator and get the answer (classes through calc 1). Part of what students are learning in lower-level math classes is how to train their mind in a certain way.

 

I tell this to students every semester and still have some refuse to show work. Of course, they usually are the students who don't know it as well as they think and they do fail the multiple choice portion as well as the free response. :glare: I do wonder how it'll be when my son gets to high school level work...

 

I think you've gotten some good responses on these threads and advice from moms in similar situations. You might want your son to read some of the comments if you think it'll help. Good luck!

[JennW in SoCal]

Just wanted to add that if you have not yet documented his challenges -- the ADD and Asperger's, now is the time to do so. When my oldest took his first CC class at 17, the office of Disabled Student Services was very helpful. I brought in documentation of his diagnoses and they offered him all kinds of help -- tutors, note takers, quiet rooms for test taking, and other services. They were also very welcoming to me. If your ds takes another CC class, I'd make a point of going there first to see if someone could coach him on the nuts and bolts of conforming to college life. Disabled Student Services will also help kids work with their teachers, or suggest which professors to have, which profs are more understanding of unique learning challenges.

 

When your ds turns 18 he is going to have to advocate for himself and need to know how to meet all kinds of other rules, such as those in the work place. Part of high school is not the academics but learning the life skills to survive the big cruel world. If there is a therapist or someone like a pastor or outside teacher or boy scout leader or coach who would be willing to take some time to discuss these kinds issues with your ds, it would be worth considering. As I said in my other post, sometimes having someone other than mom or dad do the talking makes these kids actually listen.

[Nan in Mass]

You don't have to be aspie to use this logic. Sigh. I have had this conversation with my children many times. At some point (usually about 9th grade) we have a very bad homeschooling year while I try to convince them that they have to write, they have to write more than a sentence, they have to use the normal conventions of spelling and puctuation, they have to show their work, they have to elaborate, they have to state the obvious, they have to take notes, etc. Ug. I have had some success, after they turn 16 or so, with making the converastion go more like this:

 

T: "I know the material"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "T you need to show your work so I can see you know it"

T: "I just told you I know it, so now you know"

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "But you have to prove it by showing it"

T: "That is a waste of my time when I can just be reading more and learning more."

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "But when you get to college, the professor will have a class full of students and you won't be able to just tell the prof. Some people cheat, especially when they have scholarships or grad school riding on it. You have to prove you know the material in writing."

T: "Ok - I'll do it then, then."

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "You have to prove to us now that you know how to do it, though, in case you don't and you need to learn it and practise."

T: "Ok - I'll do it this once."

Teacher/Mom/Dad: "You need to be able to do it fast and automatically, or else you won't be able to survive a full class load."

T: "Oh."

 

And then they will cooperate for a few days, usually discovering that it is harder than they thought to actually produce written work in a timely fashion.

 

Mine prefer to work on their own, as well, but I have had to make them work with me in order to show them exactly what I want them to do, at least from time to time. I insist on reading the textbook aloud to them in math (or I don't remember the material) and I insist on watching them do the example problems. Then they can go off and do the problems on their own provided they correct each answer as they do it. It was a huge battle to get them to do any of this, but it was a battle that had to be fought. Mine know that if they space out too much, they have to work sitting with me, which they would rather not do. I am not dealing with aspies, though, and I have no idea how much worse that makes things. Mostly, I posted so you know that this is a problem even without the aspie part.

 

-Nan

[AnitaMcC]

I agree.

Although good scores on the GRE can help.

 

I don't know if it'll help, but he has seen what happens in a college course by not following the instructor's requirements. I teach math at a cc and my tests are a mixture of multiple choice (right/wrong) and free response (partial credit). On the free response portion if the student has the correct answer but no work, they don't get credit. Part of what I'm grading is that they can show the work correctly. It's how I know that they aren't making conceptual mistakes that will cause them problems in later classes. If all I cared about was the answer for a problem, students could punch the problem into a computer or calculator and get the answer (classes through calc 1). Part of what students are learning in lower-level math classes is how to train their mind in a certain way.

 

I tell this to students every semester and still have some refuse to show work. Of course, they usually are the students who don't know it as well as they think and they do fail the multiple choice portion as well as the free response. :glare: I do wonder how it'll be when my son gets to high school level work...

 

I think you've gotten some good responses on these threads and advice from moms in similar situations. You might want your son to read some of the comments if you think it'll help. Good luck!

 

I am learning so much from you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He actually does get the answers right most of the time. The issue is that he doesn't always know how he knows the answer so he can't always show how he did it. Not on paper at least. He can explain it verbally how he came up with the answers and it makes sense. Often times he can look at a problem and he sees the answer. But he doesn't always know how he knows. He was able to solve simple calculus problems before he ever too math beyond prealgebra. He took algebra I in 8th grade. Took the college placement exam June 1st... he placed in accelerated precalculus course... but he never even had algebra 2 nor geometry. He took the geometry placement exam and they waived his high school geometry requirement. But at home I had him do some math review CD's for algebra 2 and geometry anyway as I know he has gaps. He just "knows" math some how. I really don't know how to handle this ability of his!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This is a pet peeve of mine with all the years in ps.... he was supposed to receive help in working backwards from his anwers so he could learn how his brain was working. The school didn't bother... they didn't have time and all they cared about was the test scores... Ds aced the standardized tests so that was all that mattered to them. I tried working with him... but honestly I don't understand his brain!!!! LOL. :001_huh:

[AnitaMcC]

Just wanted to add that if you have not yet documented his challenges -- the ADD and Asperger's, now is the time to do so. When my oldest took his first CC class at 17, the office of Disabled Student Services was very helpful. I brought in documentation of his diagnoses and they offered him all kinds of help -- tutors, note takers, quiet rooms for test taking, and other services. They were also very welcoming to me. If your ds takes another CC class, I'd make a point of going there first to see if someone could coach him on the nuts and bolts of conforming to college life. Disabled Student Services will also help kids work with their teachers, or suggest which professors to have, which profs are more understanding of unique learning challenges.

 

When your ds turns 18 he is going to have to advocate for himself and need to know how to meet all kinds of other rules, such as those in the work place. Part of high school is not the academics but learning the life skills to survive the big cruel world. If there is a therapist or someone like a pastor or outside teacher or boy scout leader or coach who would be willing to take some time to discuss these kinds issues with your ds, it would be worth considering. As I said in my other post, sometimes having someone other than mom or dad do the talking makes these kids actually listen.

 

Yes all his stuff is documented and I have all his IEPs. He did receive services in CC disability and they did help him some. But partly he has to seek out the help and he doesn't think he needs help.:tongue_smilie:

 

He does have discussions with a few people at Civil Air Patrol and they have been a great help with him. I am hoping to find a science mentor for him.. but so far I haven't found one yet. We are going to go to FermiLab

http://www.fnal.gov/ in a few weeks so I hope to find someone there.

[AnitaMcC]

Mine prefer to work on their own, as well, but I have had to make them work with me in order to show them exactly what I want them to do, at least from time to time. I insist on reading the textbook aloud to them in math (or I don't remember the material) and I insist on watching them do the example problems. Then they can go off and do the problems on their own provided they correct each answer as they do it. It was a huge battle to get them to do any of this, but it was a battle that had to be fought. Mine know that if they space out too much, they have to work sitting with me, which they would rather not do. I am not dealing with aspies, though, and I have no idea how much worse that makes things. Mostly, I posted so you know that this is a problem even without the aspie part.

 

-Nan

 

Thank you Nan!!!! It is nice to hear that some of the issues we are dealing with are actually normal teen age issues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That gives me more hope that we can reach him.......

[Nan in Mass]

Yours is actually a pretty normal sounding post for someone who has a 9th or 10th grade boy.

Every few weeks I have to remind my youngest that he is showing his work and writing things down and keeping an assignment book and trying to keep his papers filed as practice for when he is in college. No other reason really works, and he has to have a reason or he won't do it. He is too old to do it just because I say so. Besides, that is the real reason. The other reasons are all sort of fake ones, and we try to avoid fakeness. : )

-Nan

[AnitaMcC]

Thank you everyone for you help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have talked with Ds and he is more than happy to try some dietary changes. He went with me to the store to get the fish oil and omega 3 supplements. Also we got him adult mulitvitamins in place of the childrens chewables he has been taking. He is going to try to avoid processed food and food dyes.

 

I am going to print out many of these responses you all posted so he can read through them himself and see what he thinks will help.

 

I am also going to set up an appointment with his pediatrician about the possibility of medication for the ADD. Maybe something else is available that wasn't before. I don't know if this will be an option due to the other health issues Ds has, but we shall see.

 

Again thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!