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SWR users...question please


Blessed with seven
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Hi,

 

I am wanting to use SWR for my older children, possibly, for spelling. However...they really like what we are using now and do not want to change. I am using Saxon Phonics Intervention, mainly to fill in some gaps and help w/ spelling. I am going to be using PR w/ my younger ones. Saxon Phonics Intervention has a lot of "sight" words, schwa stuff, I want to use the "think to spell" and the SWR marking system. If I got Alpha List and WISE GUIDE can I use it for spelling, and the phonogram cards, do I need the SWR Manual also?

 

I know...complicated...I just don't want to change a program they are really liking but I HATE all the sight words and stuff, I don't really like there marking system either, it confuses the kids when we actually change what the letter looks like.

 

Okay..so..why not just switch to SWR? Well....I didn't do well w/ SWR, which is why I am using PR with my younger 2 but..I do believe in the philosophy of it.

 

Why not use PR w/ my older two, I don't like having to rush them ahead through a program that intense, or quickly go through the levels to get them to where they need to be, I want to use what we have but incorporate the SWR method and marking system.

 

I know....that is not the best way to do it but, I believe it would work good. I love everything Saxon has, the vocabulary, alphabetizing, stories they read for comprehension...it is all good so..

 

Thanks for any and all who try to muttle through this..ha!

 

Kim

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You could skip the Alpha list (at least I did :tongue_smilie:) but you need the WISE guide and the manual.

 

If you like the markings, just teach them. So if you DC misspells "appear" then put that word on their spelling list and mark / analyze it. Do you need the whole program?

 

Could they just sit in with the younger kids? Or even assign them to review with a younger sibling, the best way to learn is to teach!

 

Amy

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I tried pr but didn't feel it was adjustable enough. Ds and I tend to jump all over the place, so pick up and go doesn't work so well and it doesn't sound like it will for you, either.

 

I use swr with ds9 and dd8. If you already have a good understanding of spading I don't think it would be necessary. It's more just a list of words. The process is what we learnt earlier on. Take a difficult word i know they won't just know

 

How many syllables

How many sounds?

Clarify phonograms needed

Discuss any spelling words needed

Part of speech.

 

I make up a crossword with dictionary definitions, word searches etc a couple Of times a week. They have to make derivatives on a worksheet vie prepared (not fill the blank) along the lines of making antonyms, adding prefixes or suffixes to match a definition, degrees of comparison etc. I just get ideas from the wise guide, but now Ive got my head around it and find we are much more independant.

 

Fwiw this probably works more because I find that giving words 'at their level' tends to have them just write down the word without going through the above processes.

 

I only use wise guide for a spelling list. If you are comfortable with the words, then

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Wow...thanks for all the ideas, the problem I have w/ AAS is that I would probably have to start at level 1 and so on...don't want to do that and I have pretty much decided not to do AAS, just don't want to..for several reasons.

 

Ummm...wow, I was expecting to get hammered on about trying to use only "part" of SWR..... Thought for sure I would have people "screamin" at me, but not really screamin, you know what I mean?

 

So...just use the WISE Guide, is alpha list helpful though if you are not using SWR and need to look up a word or can you do that pretty quick in the WISE Guide?

 

PR is going to be a program I start w/ my 7 and 5 year olds as I can go at the pace of PR and not try to fast forward.

 

I do not want to re vamp something completely as I would not do good with that but I would like to make Saxon work by not having so many sight words and marking them, maybe I can use the marking system from PR, just don't know as I will only have level 1 for now.

 

Kim

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I do not want to re vamp something completely as I would not do good with that but I would like to make Saxon work by not having so many sight words and marking them, maybe I can use the marking system from PR, just don't know as I will only have level 1 for now.

 

Kim

If you use the initial phonics training from PR, by going through the list in level 1 ---- just the spelling, 1 week=1 day for you ---then your dc will have the skills to sound out most words while recognizing true sight words and you get to use the same marking system with all of your children. Then you can use the spelling lists and other parts of Saxon, just using the PR markings and words. That way, you get to keep what you like about Intervention, but change what you don't like by using a system with which you will be comfy (since you finished PR1 with the elder children).

 

I hope that made sense ;)

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Do you already know how to do the SWR markings? The manual will have some of the tough 'think to spell' words & some of the 'exceptions' as well as explanations about markings & the "rules" it teaches via reference pages (Plus Endings, 1-1-1 rule, 2-1-1 rule, etc.). It also has the placement tests which I think are helpful sometimes.

 

If you are planning on looking up misspelled words, using "think to spell" and markings via SWR-methodology, the Alpha List is uber-helpful. I don't have one and it is very time-consuming to find a word in the WISE guide unless you already have an idea which list it is in.

 

If your library has the SWR (red) book, you could check it out when you need it. Otherwise, I guess it is your call on whether you need it or not for how you are going to use parts of the program.

 

IMO, get the stuff used. I think you'll find plenty of SWR drop-outs who will sell you their stuff at 50% off so it is more economical for you. Good luck.

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....

Ummm...wow, I was expecting to get hammered on about trying to use only "part" of SWR..... Thought for sure I would have people "screamin" at me, but not really screamin, you know what I mean?

 

So...just use the WISE Guide, is alpha list helpful though if you are not using SWR and need to look up a word or can you do that pretty quick in the WISE Guide?

 

....

 

I do not want to re vamp something completely as I would not do good with that but I would like to make Saxon work by not having so many sight words and marking them, maybe I can use the marking system from PR, just don't know as I will only have level 1 for now.

 

Kim

 

I would get the Alpha List to help you when you want to see how to mark a word from their Saxon book. Forget the Wise Guide - let Saxon do the "driving" for you, but use the Alpha List to help you teach them the phonograms and spelling rules applicable to their word lists.

 

Disclaimer: I'm an SWR drop out. I've never used Saxon or PR. When I couldn't stand SWR anymore, I switched to SWR - oops, I mean SWO!. I go through each word list ahead of my kids and mark them with SWR markings.

 

Hope you find what works for *you.*

Edited by Another Lynn
typo
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I would get the Alpha List to help you when you want to see how to mark a word from their Saxon book. Forget the Wise Guide - let Saxon do the "driving" for you, but use the Alpha List to help you teach them the phonograms and spelling rules applicable to their word lists.

 

Disclaimer: I'm an SWR drop out. I've never used Saxon or PR. When I couldn't stand SWR anymore, I switched to SWR. I go through each word list ahead of my kids and mark them with SWR markings.

 

Hope you find what works for *you.*

 

 

So..does the Alpha List have all the phonograms in it, I know it differs from program to program, like ..how many sounds of O or OUGH etc..

 

And it has the spelling rules?

 

That might be all I need.

 

You said you switched to SWR? What do you mean?

 

Thanks for all the info!!!

 

Kim

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So..does the Alpha List have all the phonograms in it, I know it differs from program to program, like ..how many sounds of O or OUGH etc..

 

And it has the spelling rules?

 

That might be all I need.

 

You said you switched to SWR? What do you mean? Oops! Sorry, I meant SWO!

 

Thanks for all the info!!!

 

Kim

 

I'm double checking my Alpha List right now.... in the back it lists all the phonograms, advanced phonograms, spelling rules, and explanation of markings. So, if you're somewhat familiar with SWR, it might be all you need.

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I would just buy SWR manual, WISE guide and phonogram cards and spelling rule cards. I think you can get them very cheap since so many users drop the program. I do like using parts of the SWR manual, the diagnostic tests and the refrence pages in particular.

 

I think SWR has helped my older daughter in particular. She knows the cards, and rules like the back of her hand. I find the WISE guide invaluable!!! You absolutely need that and the phonogram cards and spelling cards.

 

I think you are doing a wise move. From what I understand PR is very similar to SWR only it is much more user friendly. ;)

 

I think SWR is so very-doable with older children! I think you will find your older ones picking it up very quickly! :)

 

Please get the SWR manual just so that you can track progress. I really look forward to testing every month using the diagnostic tests from the manual. It really helps me gauge my own teaching and the childrens retention level.

 

Editing to add: YES! Use the SWR system in the Saxon system if you feel confident with it. I am adapting SWR to teach my daughter to read using a totally different system, although still using the phonograms and markings per SWR(We still used SWR for the spelling exercises as well). It has worked beautifully! Good Luck!

Edited by farmwife
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I would just buy SWR manual, WISE guide and phonogram cards and spelling rule cards. I think you can get them very cheap since so many users drop the program. I do like using parts of the SWR manual, the diagnostic tests and the refrence pages in particular.

 

I think SWR has helped my older daughter in particular. She knows the cards, and rules like the back of her hand. I find the WISE guide invaluable!!! You absolutely need that and the phonogram cards and spelling cards.

 

I think you are doing a wise move. From what I understand PR is very similar to SWR only it is much more user friendly. ;)

 

I think SWR is so very-doable with older children! I think you will find your older ones picking it up very quickly! :)

 

Please get the SWR manual just so that you can track progress. I really look forward to testing every month using the diagnostic tests from the manual. It really helps me gauge my own teaching and the childrens retention level.

 

Editing to add: YES! Use the SWR system in the Saxon system if you feel confident with it. I am adapting SWR to teach my daughter to read using a totally different system, although still using the phonograms and markings per SWR(We still used SWR for the spelling exercises as well). It has worked beautifully! Good Luck!

 

Hi,

 

Thank you for this! Okay...we did our lesson w/ Saxon and I am still going "yuck", I don't know if I can adapt, honestly. For example, today we had the word Flu, okay...I know U as /u/, /U/, /oo/ as in put. They teach it as 2 long sounds of U, U as in Unit, U as in Flu. Okay..how does SWR do the word Flu, because it is /oo/....this stuff drives me nuts. The way Saxon does it is they learn the sounds of the letter but then during the "spelling" portion they write all the ways for the /A/ sound, which to me is very confusting. I just read a really good article by Wanda Sanseri on NOT doing both ways like that and it really makes sense. But..honestly there are things like the word Flu that I think...how can you make that say /u/, /U/ or /oo/ as in put?

 

Thanks for walking through all this with me...you guys have been very helpful!!

 

Kim

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Kim, what is it your kids are liking about the Saxon program? Is it a bit more fun? Colorful? Open and go meaning Mom is more pleasant? I'd figure out what that is so you continue it in your new choice.

 

I'm not sure about your logic on going to SWR. You're saying you bought it before, flopped for whatever reason, and now want to go back to it?? SWR is definitely the type of thing that guilt-trips you, lol.

 

Do you realize if you got AAS, you could probably complete all of level 1 in 5 lessons or less with those older kids? We did. So you'd have what you liked about SWR, but in something that is more scripted, easier to implement (the happier Mom factor), more fun (the tiles are FUN!), etc. You'd be able to buy the same materials and pace them to your youngers and speed up for your olders to reach quickly where they need to be. I just wouldn't be so quick to discount AAS as an option. It's not your only option, but it would definitely work.

 

I'd figure out why they like the Saxon program before you make your change.

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I think I can explain "flu". Someone correct me if I am wrong!

 

I just looked it up in my old dictionary (the best kind!). The word "flu" is not even listed, it really is just slang or a shortened version of the word "influenza"

 

So here is the Syllable break down.

 

in-flu-en-za

 

in= /i/ + /n/

flu= /f/ +/l/ + /U/ (here you would 'think to spell' or exaggerate the long U sound. It follows the spelling rule "A,E,I,O,U may say A,E,I,O,U at the end of a syllable.)

en= /e/ + /n/

za= /z/ + /ah/ (you would mark the a with a small number 3 over it to help them remember that it is the third sound... /ah/.)

 

Does that help at all?

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I think I can explain "flu". Someone correct me if I am wrong!

 

I just looked it up in my old dictionary (the best kind!). The word "flu" is not even listed, it really is just slang or a shortened version of the word "influenza"

 

So here is the Syllable break down.

 

in-flu-en-za

 

in= /i/ + /n/

flu= /f/ +/l/ + /U/ (here you would 'think to spell' or exaggerate the long U sound. It follows the spelling rule "A,E,I,O,U may say A,E,I,O,U at the end of a syllable.)

en= /e/ + /n/

za= /z/ + /ah/ (you would mark the a with a small number 3 over it to help them remember that it is the third sound... /ah/.)

 

Does that help at all?

 

 

Yes..that is very helpful, thank you!!

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Kim, what is it your kids are liking about the Saxon program? Is it a bit more fun? Colorful? Open and go meaning Mom is more pleasant? I'd figure out what that is so you continue it in your new choice.

 

.

 

My kids love the workbooks, they have always liked doing certain workbooks! I think my daughter likes the interaction, my son really doesn't like any of it..ha!

 

AAS might work, I just don't know...

 

When I did SWR it was long ago and I just couldn't wrap my head around it but that was when I had to do everything just as written, I really didn't know how to move forward unless I knew it all well, I just way over complicated it, I have learned a lot since, although I still tend to complicate things, I have learned I really like how SWR/AAS/PR does the spelling.

 

When I get school money I may take a look at AAS. I will probably end up loving it..ha! I just asked some questions about it once and caused a bit of a fuss, which I most certainly did NOT want, left a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing.

 

Kim

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Workbooks? They like workbooks? Well I'm no help there, mercy, as my dd has a brain for a seive when it comes to workbooks. I use some to create independent work, but I do them in sort of a complementary way, not necessarily expecting it to be entire instruction. I don't think a traditional spelling workbook (even one that marks schwa, shudders, lol!) is such a bad thing IF you use it in the context of whatever more thorough instruction it takes to get things to stick.

 

Ok, have you looked at MegaWords or Apples&Pears? I think those are the names. They're workbooks that use a more OG-style (if not exactly the same) type of phonetic analysis. Some of these programs are very highly regarded. They might give you the methodology you're wanting with the work style they like. One_l_Michele and 8FillstheHeart use some of these.

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Workbooks? They like workbooks? Well I'm no help there, mercy, as my dd has a brain for a seive when it comes to workbooks. I use some to create independent work, but I do them in sort of a complementary way, not necessarily expecting it to be entire instruction. I don't think a traditional spelling workbook (even one that marks schwa, shudders, lol!) is such a bad thing IF you use it in the context of whatever more thorough instruction it takes to get things to stick.

 

Ok, have you looked at MegaWords or Apples&Pears? I think those are the names. They're workbooks that use a more OG-style (if not exactly the same) type of phonetic analysis. Some of these programs are very highly regarded. They might give you the methodology you're wanting with the work style they like. One_l_Michele and 8FillstheHeart use some of these.

I'd be really interested to know about Apples and Pears accelerated. I hope someone joins our conversation.

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