SAM-e....anyone take this for mild depression?

[Melissa in CA]

Just purchased some of this for my 21 yo mildly depressed son. He hasn't begun taking it yet (it's on order from Vitacost). Does anyone actually use it and have it help them?? I did a search on here but so far haven't found much info on it....lots of info on anti-depressants which he is not interested in taking...but not much info on SAM-e.

 

Anyone?

[Negin]

Just purchased some of this for my 21 yo mildly depressed son. He hasn't begun taking it yet (it's on order from Vitacost). Does anyone actually use it and have it help them?? I did a search on here but so far haven't found much info on it....lots of info on anti-depressants which he is not interested in taking...but not much info on SAM-e.

Anyone?

 

This is the info I have on SAM-e. I would think that St. John's Wort would be better for him.

 

If you’re depressed AND suffer from chronic pain from conditions like arthritis, take SAM-E. This eases depression and acts as an anti-inflammatory to relieve aches. Avoid SAM-E if you have bipolar disease. Start with 1600 mg a day, then cut back.

 

St. John’s Wort

St. John’s Wort is the most popular and well-studied herb for minor and moderate depression. It has been tested head-to-head with Prozac. It often works just as well as Prozac with fewer side effects.

One reason it works so well is because of its side effect. It causes photosensitivity. Bright light therapy helps reduce depression. By increasing your sensitivity to light, St. John’s Wort magnifies the effects of normal light. It acts just like you’re being exposed to continuous light therapy.

The daily dosage varies from 300-1000 mg a day.

Try it for at least a month.

One warning: St. John’s Wort can reduce the effectiveness of some medications. If you take any drugs at all, consult with your doctor or pharmacist before taking this herb.

Raises serotonin levels

Helps relieve chronic insomnia

Helps relieve mild depression – especially if you’re healthy and not taking other medications.

May help relieve panic attacks – when taken 2-3 times a day

Because this herb can sensitize the skin to sunlight, take it in the evening after the sun has set.

 

There are some other supplements also that may be very helpful. But St. John's Wort is the first one that comes to mind. Let me know if you need info on others.

[Anne in CA]

My dh and I take SamE for joint pain and it works pretty well. Also, it does seem to be a bit of a "pick up". My shoulder is sooo much better after taking SamE that I often go for days without thinking about it now. But I don't know how well it would work for straight out depression.

[Denisemomof4]

I took that for something recently. I don't think it was for depression but for another reason? I don't have achy joints so I don't think that was it. I'm sorry, I don't remember why I took it!

 

Anyway, I did notice that I had more energy, but I also noticed that I had a temper while on it! I was on edge more. I'm normally not like that.

 

I think it is recommended for mild depression but know that it's good for other things, too.

[Melissa in CA]

Update:

 

My ds has been taking VitaCost's NSI brand of SAM-e 400mg (along with his usual B complex, some good Omega's and some extra D3) for four days now and it's made a HUGE DIFFERENCE! He says that he feels sooooooooo much better and can definitely feel the difference. He's experienced zero side effects (so far). The SAM-e is really helping (Yay!), I pray it continues to do so. ;)

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I was just coming on here to post a question about supplements that could help with depression. I'm glad I looked through the posts first! :)

 

Thanks for the tips! I'm going to see if I can get my DH to try this. He suffers from chronic pain (not sure what its caused by) and mild to moderate depression.

 

What if it took Sam-E and St. John's Wort. Does anyone know if that's okay? Or not a good combo?

[Guest cowsgomoo]

I have run the gamet of anti depressants for 25 years. I was annointed a few years ago and still have struggled. Lately, a friend told me that (here in Canada, at least) we are so sun deprived that we are very low on Vitamin D. So I started taking 6 to 7 times the recommended dose. Even those Vitamin D can be toxic, apparently, it is hard to od on it because our bodies are so deprived. I have been feeling tons better, less edgey. It is worthwhile googling Dr. Mercola's website as he talks about the links between Vit. D deficiency and the problems, especially depression, it can cause.

[Blessed with seven]

Here is info from www.doctormurray.com, I use his recommendations often with much success!

 

I would not worry about the mulit, greens, oil, although I use those, just not his brand, well..sometimes I do, depends on what I can afford. The 5HTP is supposted to be really good in combo w/ St Johns Wart!

 

 

 

Depression What is Depression?

Depression is characterized by feelings of low self-esteem, pessimism, and despair. Clinical depression is more than feeling depressed. The official definition of clinical depression is based on the following eight primary criteria:

 

1. Poor appetite accompanied by weight loss, or increased appetite accompanied by weight gain
   
2. Insomnia or excessive sleep habits (hypersomnia)
   
3. Physical hyperactivity or inactivity
   
4. Loss of interest or pleasure in usual activities, or decrease in sexual drive
   
5. Loss of energy; feelings of fatigue
   
6. Feelings of worthlessness, self-reproach, or inappropriate guilt
   
7. Diminished ability to think or concentrate
   
8. Recurrent thoughts of death or suicide
   

The presence of five of these eight symptoms definitely indicates clinical depression; an individual with four is probably depressed. The symptoms must be present for at least one month to be called clinical depression.

What causes Depression?

Depression can be the result of psychological as well as physiological factors. The most significant psychological theory is the "learned helplessness" model, which theorizes that depression is the result of habitual feelings of pessimism and hopelessness. The chief physiological theory is the "monoamine hypothesis," which stresses imbalances of monoamine neurotransmitters such as serotonin, epinephrine, and norepinephrine. Serotonin deficiency is the most common biochemical cause

It is important to rule out the simple organic factors that are known to contribute to the depression such as nutrient deficiency, drugs (prescription, illicit, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, etc.), hypoglycemia, and hypothyroidism.

What dietary factors are important in Depression?

A deficiency of any single nutrient can alter brain function and lead to depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders, especially deficiencies of vitamin B12, folic acid, other B vitamins, and omega-3 fatty acids. Alcohol utilizes many of these nutrients in its metabolism and drinking alcohol regularly replaces calories one would otherwise get from food. In this case, nutrients are just not adequately consumed, and those that are consumed are often needed to rid the body of the alcohol. In the case of hypothyroidism, inadequate iodine intake can be a cause.

Since the brain requires a constant supply of blood sugar to function properly, hypoglycemia must be avoided. Symptoms of hypoglycemia can range from mild to severe and include depression, anxiety, irritability, and other psychological disturbances; fatigue; headache; blurred vision; excessive sweating; mental confusion; incoherent speech; bizarre behavior; and convulsions. Several studies have shown hypoglycemia to be very common in depressed individuals. Simply eliminating refined carbohydrates and caffeine (which can aggravate hypoglycemia) from the diet is sometimes all that is needed for effective therapy in patients whose depression results from reactive hypoglycemia.

Food allergy is also a significant factor in some people suffering from depression. Eliminating offending foods can bring about tremendous relief (see Food Allergy for more information).

What nutritional supplements should I take for Depression?

Foundation Supplements. There are three products from Natural Factors that I think are critical in supporting good health:

 

• MultiStart (age and gender specific multiple vitamin and mineral formulas). Follow label instructions.
  
• Enriching Greens - a great tasting "greens drink" containing highly concentrated "greens" like chlorella, spirulina, wheat grass juice, barley grass juice, etc., and herbal extracts. Take one serving (one tablespoon) in 8 ounces of water daily.
  
• RxOmega-3 Factors - A true pharmaceutical grade fish oil supplement. Take two capsules daily.
  

5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) is extracted from the seed of an African plant (Griffonia simplicifolia) and is the direct precursor to serotonin. In addition to increasing serotonin levels, 5-HTP causes an increase in levels of endorphin and other neurotransmitters that are often decreased in cases of depression. Numerous double-blind studies have shown that 5-HTP has equal effectiveness compared to drugs like Prozac, Paxil, and Zoloft (the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SSRIs) and tricyclic antidepressant drugs like imipramine and desipramine in terms of effectiveness, and that it offers several advantages: it is less expensive, better tolerated, and associated with fewer and much milder side effects. The typical recommendation is 50 to 100 mg three times daily (best taken before meals, preferably use an "enteric-coated" product to prevent gastroinstestinal upset). 5-HTP should not be used in combination with antidepressant drugs unless under the supervision of a physician. It can be used in combination with St. John's wort extract.

St. John's wort extract (Hypericum perforatum) is now a well-known natural antidepressant. Over 30 double-blind studies involving over 2,000 patients with mild to moderate depression have shown St. John's wort extract to be very effective. However, while St. John's wort extract appears to be as or possibly even more effective than conventional antidepressant drugs in mild to moderate depression, it does not appear to be as effective as conventional drugs in severe depression. The main advantage ofusing St. John's wort extract as opposed to antidepressant drugs was found to be not so much a difference in therapeutic outcome, but rather a significant advantage in termsof side effects, cost, and patient satisfaction. The dosage for St. John's wort extract (0.3% hypericin content) is 900 to 1800 mg daily. In severe cases, St. Johns wort extract can be used in combination with 5-HTP.

People taking prescription drugs need to check with their doctor or pharmacist before taking St. John's wort extract as it appears to induce enzymes in the liver and gut that detoxify certain drugs. Drugs that are metabolized by these enzymes include cyclosporine; digoxin; indinavir; oral contraceptives; theophylline; tricyclic antidepressants, such as amitriptyline; and anticoagulants, such as warfarin (Coumadin®). Do not use St. John's wort if you are taking any of these drugs without consulting a physician first.

St. John's wort extract may also potentiate prescription antidepressant and anti-anxiety drugs. There is one case report of simultaneous use of St. John's wort and paroxetine (Paxil®) producing nausea, fatigue, lethargy, and weakness. Do not use St. John's wort if you are taking a prescription antidepressant or anti-anxiety drug without consulting a physician first.

DHEA levels typically drop as people age. People over 40 patients with depression and low DHEA levels respond quite well to DHEA supplementation. The dosage recommendation for men 45+ is 15 to 25 mg daily; for women 45+ the dosage is 5 to 15 mg daily.

Comment:

If you are currently on a prescription anti-depressant drug, you will need to work with a physician to get off the drug. Stopping the drug on your own can be dangerous, you absolutely must have proper medical supervision. I have used St. John's wort and 5-HTP successfully without incident in patients taking Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Effexor, and various other antidepressant drugs. The real concern that physicians have when mixing antidepressant drugs with St. John's wort or 5-HTP is producing what is referred to as the "serotonin syndrome" - characterized by confusion, fever, shivering, sweating, diarrhea, and muscle spasms. Although this syndrome has never been produced when St. John's wort extract or 5-HTP have been given alone, it is theoretically possible that combining St. John's wort or 5-HTP with standard antidepressant drugs could produce this syndrome. If symptoms of serotonin syndrome appear, elimination of one of the therapies is indicated.

How do I know if the program is working?

Feelings of depression are mostly subjective. Anti-depressants, whether natural or synthetic, generally take 2-6 weeks to demonstrate an effect. One of the first improvements noted by many is in sleep quality.

Feedback:

Please let Dr. Murray know how this program has worked for you by clicking here This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Testimonial:

Dear Dr. Murray,

Despite the many different antidepressants I'd been prescribed over the past several years (gaining 70 pounds in the process ... ugh) the ONLY thing I could take that would give me any sense of feeling "normal" was Vicodin. Thankfully, I found your book on 5-HTP. I took my first 100mg dose one morning, and WITHIN TWO HOURS I felt better than I had in ages!!! It was/is the most amazing thing, Dr. Murray! It has been five weeks since I started taking 5-HTP, and not only do I have more HOPE than I've had in years, but I also have felt absolutely no inclination to take Vicodin since I started taking 5-HTP. I no longer need Ambien or Valium to sleep, nor do I need to sleep 14 hours at a time on weekends. Instead, I sleep 7 - 8 hours per night and wake up refreshed and ready to start the day. It truly is like a miracle to me. I cannot thank you enough for touching my life in the way that you have, and I hope this email finds its way to you so you will know how very grateful I am to you.

Best regards, Nancy

[Melissa in CA]

I was just coming on here to post a question about supplements that could help with depression. I'm glad I looked through the posts first! :)

 

Thanks for the tips! I'm going to see if I can get my DH to try this. He suffers from chronic pain (not sure what its caused by) and mild to moderate depression.

 

What if it took Sam-E and St. John's Wort. Does anyone know if that's okay? Or not a good combo?

 

Well...

 

In my online research the consensus seemed to be to only use one or the other. In your DH's case I'm thinking I'd go for the SAM-e. One should also always take a B Complex when using SAM-E, and Omega's are very helpful for depression, as is extra D3.

 

You should take the SAM-e with a full glass of water upon waking in the morning. Do not eat breakfast until 30-60 minutes afterwards...the pill needs time to pass from the stomach into the bowel...take all other vitamins with your breakfast.

 

The Vitacost NSI brand has very good reviews and has a better sticker price. Here is what my ds is using: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-SAM-e-400-mg-30-Enteric-Coated-Tabs

 

He is also taking these which are recommened with SAM-e:

Mega EFA http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Mega-EFA-Omega-3-EPA-DHA-2-126-grams-per-serving-240-Softgels/?bnPageBox=pp_frequentlyboughttogether

 

Vit B Complex http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Vitamin-B-Complex The B Complex is highly recommened to be taken when taking SAM-E due to homecysteine build-up.

 

Also helpful for depression:

 

Vit D3 http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Vitamin-D3-as-Cholecalciferol-2000-IU-300-Capsules/?bnPageBox=pp_alsobought&vbnpid=26868 Research I read said to take 1,000 IU per 25 pounds of body weight if you work indoors and/or are indoors the majority of your day. These are 2,000 IU each.

 

And with the Vit D3 one should always take Calcium. We use and like this one: http://www.vitacost.com/Rainbow-Light-Magnesium-Calcium-180-Tablets This is one our Homeopath recommended. I take one at night as it really helps me sleep, my ds takes two in the morning with breakfast. The dose is 3 a day, but 3 is A LOT and he and I both can get the 'runs' if we take the recommended dosage. So one for me, and two for him.

 

Anyhow, that is what he is currently taking each day. My understanding is that SAM-e is a prescribed anti-depressant in Europe ( I believe is was Europe) and like all ADs it may or may not work for every person's depression as each person's body is different and responds differently...which is why a person prescribed an AD may be prescribed a variety of different ones before finding the right one for their body/situation.

 

I hope your DH finds relief though. I can't imagine having to live with depression AND chronic pain.

[Melissa in CA]

About 5HTP and St. Johns Wort.

 

We have not tried the St. Johns Wort, mainly because I know several people who do use it and it makes them sleepy. They don't take it for depression though, they take it for anxiety. My DS had anxiety when he was in nursing school, but that went away with the help of his homeopath and 5HTP. He used the 5HTP for quite a while, it defintely helped his edgyness, but it did not help his depression at all, and it made him reaaaally sleepy...he just got further and further depressed. I think if my ds tried St. John's and 5HTP together he'd be a walking zombie! :lol:

 

He needed something to wake him up, help him see the world in a normal positive light. So far SAM-e is doing that (I hope and pray it continues), and it's quite possible the extra D3 is also helping...but he's been taking extra D3 for a few weeks, it's not until he added in the SAM-e that he noticed a real difference.

[snipsnsnailsx5]

Well...

 

In my online research the consensus seemed to be to only use one or the other. In your DH's case I'm thinking I'd go for the SAM-e. One should also always take a B Complex when using SAM-E, and Omega's are very helpful for depression, as is extra D3.

 

You should take the SAM-e with a full glass of water upon waking in the morning. Do not eat breakfast until 30-60 minutes afterwards...the pill needs time to pass from the stomach into the bowel...take all other vitamins with your breakfast.

 

The Vitacost NSI brand has very good reviews and has a better sticker price. Here is what my ds is using: http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-SAM-e-400-mg-30-Enteric-Coated-Tabs

 

He is also taking these which are recommened with SAM-e:

Mega EFA http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Mega-EFA-Omega-3-EPA-DHA-2-126-grams-per-serving-240-Softgels/?bnPageBox=pp_frequentlyboughttogether

 

Vit B Complex http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Vitamin-B-Complex The B Complex is highly recommened to be taken when taking SAM-E due to homecysteine build-up.

 

Also helpful for depression:

 

Vit D3 http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Vitamin-D3-as-Cholecalciferol-2000-IU-300-Capsules/?bnPageBox=pp_alsobought&vbnpid=26868 Research I read said to take 1,000 IU per 25 pounds of body weight if you work indoors and/or are indoors the majority of your day. These are 2,000 IU each.

 

And with the Vit D3 one should always take Calcium. We use and like this one: http://www.vitacost.com/Rainbow-Light-Magnesium-Calcium-180-Tablets This is one our Homeopath recommended. I take one at night as it really helps me sleep, my ds takes two in the morning with breakfast. The dose is 3 a day, but 3 is A LOT and he and I both can get the 'runs' if we take the recommended dosage. So one for me, and two for him.

 

Anyhow, that is what he is currently taking each day. My understanding is that SAM-e is a prescribed anti-depressant in Europe ( I believe is was Europe) and like all ADs it may or may not work for every person's depression as each person's body is different and responds differently...which is why a person prescribed an AD may be prescribed a variety of different ones before finding the right one for their body/situation.

 

I hope your DH finds relief though. I can't imagine having to live with depression AND chronic pain.

 

Thanks for the info! I'm definitely going to go buy the SAM-E and MAKE Dh take it. lol He was taking fish oil for awhile. Will that help/interfere at all?

[Melissa in CA]

Here is one of the websites I have in my 'SAM-e research' folder:

 

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/sameart.html

[Melissa in CA]

Thanks for the info! I'm definitely going to go buy the SAM-E and MAKE Dh take it. lol He was taking fish oil for awhile. Will that help/interfere at all?

 

No, fish oils are always beneficial. ;)

[i.love.lucy]

I have both 5HTP and SamE in my cabinet and have not used them yet - too scared too. This thread is encouraging me to get started.

 

I hope this isn't too OT: I have a question about Melatonin. I got some time release. I have insomnia which may clear up with the SamE and 5HTP but I wondered if I should give the melatonin a try too? I usually take banadryl (3!!!) to help me get to sleep at night and often wake groggy and unable to function for a while until I get my coffee. Just don't feel healthy. If I do try the Melatonin, when should I take it...about an hour before I want to be in bed? I usually take the benadryl about an hour and a half before I hope to be in bed.

 

Or should I give the SamE and 5HTP a shot first? And if my insomnia isn't helped I can add in the melatonin?

[Skadi]

I'm sorry, but four days is not long enough for it to take effect. Can we say, placebo?

[Melissa in CA]

Or should I give the SamE and 5HTP a shot first? And if my insomnia isn't helped I can add in the melatonin?

 

If you JUST have insomnia I would try the melatonin first and see how you do with that.

 

If you don't have depression or pain, and the melatonin doesn't help then I would probably start with the 5HTP and see how that goes.

 

If your depressed/moody then I would try the SAM-e first...alone. I would not mix the two (SAM-E and 5HTP).

 

I ALWAYS have some Trader Joes Melatonin at my bedside table. I only need to take it periodically, but when I am suffering hormonal insomnia, melatonin does the trick to get me to sleep. It usually takes about 20 minutes for me, but if you have serious insomnia where you must take Benadryl every night, I'm not sure how Melatonin will work for you. It may not be strong enough for your body. It's harmless though, so it's worth a try.

 

As for Melatonin with SAM-e or 5HTP...I honestly don't know? I wouldn't mix anything at first. I'd try the less potent first (melatonin) and go from there.

[Melissa in CA]

I'm sorry, but four days is not long enough for it to take effect. Can we say, placebo?

 

Possible, but I have read research that says otherwise, and so far experience shows he's feeling much better about...well...everything. Time will tell! :D

[melissel]

I have insomnia which may clear up with the SamE and 5HTP but I wondered if I should give the melatonin a try too?

 

You might want to give just 5-htp a try first. It can do the same thing melatonin will do for you, but in a more natural process. Lots of people (myself included) have problems with melatonin (grogginess, nightmares, overly vivid and stimulating dreams) but find help via 5-htp.

 

I'm sorry, but four days is not long enough for it to take effect. Can we say, placebo?

 

I can feel the effects (in either direction) of my mood-affecting supplements within 24-48 hours. I don't see why SAM-e would be any different.

[Melissa in CA]

You might want to give just 5-htp a try first. It can do the same thing melatonin will do for you, but in a more natural process. Lots of people (myself included) have problems with melatonin (grogginess, nightmares, overly vivid and stimulating dreams) but find help via 5-htp.

 

That is so odd!! I tried 5HTP once thinking it would help me with some hormonal insomnia and it gave me freaky edgy dreams and I was edgy all night and could not seem to get 'comfortable' in my sleep...I had that crawling out of my skin feeling. Hard to explain. All I know is that when I stopped taking the 5HTP it all went away and I've been afraid to take it since thinking I was allergic to it or something. Whereas melatonin never causes sleep distrubances for me at all and I am NEVER groggy from it, even my 13 yo ds will take it when he can't get to sleep. I guess that goes to show that everyone needs/responds to things differently. My 21 yo ds never had issues with 5HTP like I did.

[Melissa in CA]

I can feel the effects (in either direction) of my mood-affecting supplements within 24-48 hours. I don't see why SAM-e would be any different.

 

As I sit here listening to my son laugh (yes, actually LAUGH!) while playing a video game with his little brother, I can't help but be pleased with the effects of SAM-e...placebo or not. ;)

[melissel]

That is so odd!! I tried 5HTP once thinking it would help me with some hormonal insomnia and it gave me freaky edgy dreams and I was edgy all night and could not seem to get 'comfortable' in my sleep...I had that crawling out of my skin feeling. Hard to explain. All I know is that when I stopped taking the 5HTP it all went away and I've been afraid to take it since thinking I was allergic to it or something. Whereas melatonin never causes sleep distrubances for me at all and I am NEVER groggy from it, even my 13 yo ds will take it when he can't get to sleep. I guess that goes to show that everyone needs/responds to things differently. My 21 yo ds never had issues with 5HTP like I did.

 

This is SO true. It's critical to find what works for you. I've heard a few people say the same things about 5-htp for them, but for me, if I miss even a day, I'm looking to take people's heads off until I have it back in my system, and I've never noticed ANY sleep disturbances (I take 100 mg a day). Whereas with melatonin, I never felt that it helped me GET to sleep, and then when I was asleep, I either had crazy, vivid nightmares or loooooong, vivid dreams that I felt kept me in an almost-awake state for most of the night, and I didn't feel rested at all!

 

As I sit here listening to my son laugh (yes, actually LAUGH!) while playing a video game with his little brother, I can't help but be pleased with the effects of SAM-e...placebo or not. ;)

 

And this is all that matters :grouphug:

[lakotajm]

 

I can feel the effects (in either direction) of my mood-affecting supplements within 24-48 hours. I don't see why SAM-e would be any different.

In my experience with SAM-e, it took about a week. And true to the package's insert, I felt the need to increase the dose after a couple weeks. The problem with this is that it got expensive! SAM-e is not cheap! I ended up going back to perscription anti-depressants, which work better for me anyway.

 

And oddly, when I first got on meds years ago, I noticed the difference (Paxil) within hours! It was totally amazing. I mused that it was because I was so depressed.

 

Lakota

[Melissa in CA]

Update #2!

 

Just wanted to update and say that my ds is still loving Sam-e! It's made a huge difference in his attitude. HUGE. :D

 

He's still getting perfect results at 400mg a day, and says that the $17.99 a month he has to pay for those results is very worth it. He loves feeling normal again...and I love him BEING normal again. ;)

[Blessed with seven]

Thank you so much for the updates, that is wonderful, glad it is working so well for him!

 

Blessings,

 

Kim

[jcgonczi]

5HTP gave me serious stomach cramps and very vivid, strange dreams. Might have to try SAMe.

[sbgrace]

I'm glad he continues to benefit! That's wonderful!