Would you send your child to school...

[Vanna]

...if you felt he was lazy (always looking for the easy road to getting school work done or skipping it altogether) and/or you felt he wasn't learning from you?

 

Here's my scenerio: Ds 13 - I feel like it's been an uphill battle all school yr. He likes the amenities of homeschooling, but he doesn't like to do the work. Today, he came to me to ask for help with a math problem he got wrong. It became clear after a lot of his "I don't understand" and "what am I supposed to do next" lines that he really wanted ME to do the work, not him. And it goes like this constantly.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Vanna

[Mosaicmind]

I am dealing with the same thing and I am not sending my ds back to school even though he wants to go. There is a thread that several of us have chimed in on about dealing with middleschool age kids with these issues. If you send him back to school you aren't doing him any favors, in fact I would say that you would be harming him because he wouldn't be learning anything.

 

I am having these same issues with ds/almost 13 (Jan 12th). I haven't done a very good job of following through on discipline with him, so that has to change. During our Christmas break I am going to take some time and spend with him only and just talk. I want to share with him my expectations of him, what his school work with be starting in January, and how the last several weeks has been hard on me. I believe that he needs to be involved in what's going on and talking through things, without being confrontational, gives him an active part in changing things. These are smart kids and if what they are doing seems to be working for them they will continue to do it, regardless of how it affects us as mothers.

 

Stick with what you know that will work to change his attitude and actions, it may take awhile but the results will be well worth the effort. We are here for you when things get tough or you want to give up.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think it is common for boys, not to stereotype :tongue_smilie:

 

You are the best person to push him through this. School will not correct the problem, in fact, it may make it worse. I have known many kids to hide behind the system and just get by in school. They will not know his individual potential like you do and will not necessarily push him to excel.

Just my initial thoughts.

[LisaKinVA]

At times, I want to... very, very much. He's only 11 though.

 

But, deep down I know that won't fix the problems -- and will probably increase my frustration overall (school issues, vacation conflicts, etc.)

 

So, we just keep slogging forward... trying to pick my battles, figure out how to meet him where he is, and encourage him to move forwars. We are "unofficially" retaining him in 6th grade next year. He just isn't ready for logic stage work (across the board, anyhow... he's apparently ready for Algebra I, but the Virtual Academy won't move him there yet). Some of it is personality, and some of it is age.

[Crimson Wife]

~Hard labor (I must prepare you for life so if you don't want to learn to work with your head you will have to learn to work with your hands)

 

DH swears that years of getting up at the crack of dawn for his paper route and then working at McDonald's in high school were his prime motivators in pushing him to excel academically. He didn't want to get stuck in a low-wage service job after graduation if he could help it.

[Mom-ninja.]

No. I feel like it would be equivalent to me passing the buck to someone else as far as handling difficulties in parenting.

 

Yes, at times I do need help, but ultimately I feel that it is my responsibility.

 

 

Each family does what is best for them.

[happyWImom]

I know this may seem like passing the buck, but what about having him try a VA for a year? That way, he can see what it's like to be accountable to someone else, but you aren't actually putting him back into the total ps environment.

[elegantlion]

I think it is common for boys, not to stereotype :tongue_smilie:

 

You are the best person to push him through this. School will not correct the problem, in fact, it may make it worse. I have known many kids to hide behind the system and just get by in school. They will not know his individual potential like you do and will not necessarily push him to excel.

Just my initial thoughts.

 

:iagree: My ds is 13. Great kid, not the most motivated academic student. :glare: I find the hardest thing is setting my resolve to:

 

- remind him that work must be done by ....

 

- hand back work that is undone

 

- press through challenges with patience and a happy heart. :001_huh:

 

- not allow life to become a distraction. (which it has this year)

 

- make schooling the priority for the major portion of the day

 

- remember that not everything can be put off until tomorrow

[swimmermom3]

No. You will see on this board that these are common issues with this age group in particular.

 

What we have tried....

 

~Incorrect work goes back to him to be re-done, multiple times if necessary.

 

~A chat with dad

 

~Hard labor (I must prepare you for life so if you don't want to learn to work with your head you will have to learn to work with your hands):D

 

~Pretend he is younger and stay at the table with him to keep him on task and be available for questions. I read or study or do laundry or play with my little one, but we are all in the same room.

 

~I recently had a conversation with ds about ways to make him "less miserable", because I couldn't promise that he wouldn't be miserable at all. We both made compromises and I changed a lot of his work. I saw him actually interested in school work for the first time in years, many years. we went through every subject, talked about what he liked and didn't like and why he didn't like things. I had to evaluate the purpose for those activities and we came up with ways to meet the goals w/o making him so miserable.

 

For example, he really likes the science text we are using but he really dislikes the labs and written work. He dislikes the labs because they are simple and he already knows the outcome before he starts so he doesn't see the point (logic stage alert!). Given that he was correct I had to think about why I wanted him doing labs. It was so that I could see that he knew how to do a good lab write up. So, we decided that if he would do one amazing write-up for me, that would prove he knew how and he could skip the labs for the rest of the year. We also decided that as long as he was getting at least B's on his tests he could skip the written work.

 

We made changes to almost every subject in some way. He is still meeting my educational goals for him, but he isn't as bored. I realized that the problem wasn't so much that the work was too difficult as that he simply was interested or challenged by any of it. The things that were "hard" were mostly because they were a bad fit (incremental grammar program for a global thinker).

 

All of this is excellent advice and honestly, you have biology working against you at this age. Their body is in the room and their brain is residing an immeasurable distance away in The Great Brain Repository where all teen age brains reside until it is seen fit to return them...hopefully. By all means fine-tune his work to better suit his needs. If you give your ds an assignment, know what the goal for providing that assignment is. This gives you a leg to stand on. Then, tell junior if he does not want to do the assignment that he can develop another one as long as it meets your goal. My youngest has actually created what I think are much harder assignments than I gave, but he sure is happy with that degree of control.

 

Of course, you still have to have consequences for failure to perform. When I know the math mistakes are careless, my student has to fix the incorrect problems and then do the same number of problems that he got wrong for "reinforcement." The number of SMEs (stupid math errors) falls dramatically.

 

No. Sending him to school won't fix the problem. Been there, done that. My experience at this age is that many kids would prefer to have information slide off of them like jello on the wall than actually have to digest the content if they are not engaged in the subject.

 

I am sorry this is where you are at. It is no fun.:grouphug:

[redsquirrel]

no, I would not.

 

But, if it were that difficult I would switch gears to find ways to make schooling seem meaningful to him.

 

For example, there are math curriculums that are based on running a business. I would try that as well as a lot of work in bugeting. I would find ways to get him to help with the families finances or include him in the conversation.

 

For history, I would ask him to pick one thing he can tolerate, lol. My friend's son picked middle ages Japan. He spend the whole year on that. Her other son spent a whole year on the history of baseball. There was actually huge amounts of interesting information with both topics.

 

Science? Physics. A year of making trebuchettes etc. Maybe chemistry and make it The Year of Blowing Things Up.

 

And hard physical labor etc, etc.

 

I think everyone here has great suggestions. I think that making school, learning feel as practical as possible, thinking outside the box can help kids at that age. Being able to do that is one of the great things about being a homeschooler.

 

I also would add that you should check in on his sleep and eating. Is he doing enough of both? Is he exercising enough? Is he getting 45 mins of actual heart pounding movement in every day? Is there any chance he is depressed? He is at an age where such things can start to rear their head. Depression can take many forms in teenagers and it doesn't hurt to keep an eye out.

[msjones]

Hmm...

 

I wonder if it wouldn't be worth a try. Some kids (and adults) do better with some competition and peer pressure. A big work load to manage, some new teachers and the pressure of deadlines and grades might reveal a hidden side of him that wants to get the work done.

 

Or, it might be a disaster, in which case you could always take him out again.

[Melissa in Australia]

No. Character deficiencies don't suddenly disappear by attending school.

:iagree: And schools don't tend to push students like mum can.

[Vanna]

I know this may seem like passing the buck, but what about having him try a VA for a year? That way, he can see what it's like to be accountable to someone else, but you aren't actually putting him back into the total ps environment.

 

I'm curious... what is VA?

 

To all: thank you so much :grouphug: for your thoughts, advice, and esp. for the reassurance that if we continue on in homeschooling that there is much support here to help me get through it.

 

Today's math corrections got "shelved" and we started our Christmas break. I like the idea of having him doing the mistakes over till I get the right answer (I always feel guilty, like it's my responsibility to help him "get it" or figure out another way to solve the math problem.)

[mcconnellboys]

Schools only encourage and reinforce this sort of behavior....

[Spock]

...if you felt he was lazy (always looking for the easy road to getting school work done or skipping it altogether) and/or you felt he wasn't learning from you?

 

Here's my scenerio: Ds 13 - I feel like it's been an uphill battle all school yr. He likes the amenities of homeschooling, but he doesn't like to do the work. Today, he came to me to ask for help with a math problem he got wrong. It became clear after a lot of his "I don't understand" and "what am I supposed to do next" lines that he really wanted ME to do the work, not him. And it goes like this constantly.

 

I sent my oldest to school at the same age, for similar reasons (wasting time, taking all day to do only part of his school work, doing mediocre work even on what was completed). I took him back out again after only 8 days of school.

 

As it turned out, the public school asked so little of him and wasted so much time that even with the little he was doing at home he was getting more done in a day than he did in a week at school.

 

I don't really have a solution for you, but we did keep on struggling that year, and though I didn't feel like anything changed or improved, by the middle of the next school year he was working harder and doing better work again, though I still had to push him a lot all through high school.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm curious... what is VA?

 

I think the poster meant the K12 virtual charter schools. I don't believe they offer one in RI. You'd have to pay the pricey private tuition if you wanted to go that route.

[Maisy]

I guess I'm going against the grain here a little . . .

 

We are going through a very similar situation, and I have considered exactly what you are considering. Part of me really feels like they (mostly I'm talking about dd 12) need to "toughen up" and be accountable to someone else. I know for a fact dd would work her tail off to earn a good grade or please a teacher, but she'll give me the whiny run-around all day long. :glare:

 

I think you have to take a look at your relationship with your ds and evaluate whether it would ultimately be stronger or become more strained if you go the PS route (FWIW, in the long run, I care more about my relationship with my kiddos than I do about whether or not they take Latin). I know my dd and I have a wonderful relationship outside of school: she's a great kid-polite and kind to all, respectful of adults, and she's a really hard worker on tasks that matter to her (um, schoolwork is often NOT in that category). :lol:

 

And sometimes I just want to be Mom--and I really enjoy those days when I can be. I don't want to be "the bad guy" all day every day (dh teaches as well, so he can be equally as "bad"). It used to be just a subject or two that brought on the laziness and bad attitude, but lately it's been almost every subject, everyday! :tongue_smilie:

 

We had seriously considered sending them all to PS this January to address some of these issues (similar to the ones you mentioned, including "no, not all time is 'your time'") and to just let everyone "decompress" for a semester because it felt like our homeschool was being "poisoned" (for lack of a better term) by bad attitudes. But in the past few weeks we have decided to go ahead and finish out the school year. We have more breaks planned for the spring semester, so that should help. And I'm going to try to inject a little more "fun" into the schedule. Dh and I have always said we'd take homeschooling year by year, evaluating what is best for the family as a whole. (and who knows, we may dilly dally around with this homeschooling thing long enough that we might actualy get someone graduated! :lol:)

 

However, if we ever feel that homeschooling is ultimately hurting our relationship, and that a little distance, like public or private school might actually help (like I said, we've got a great relationship with dd otherwise), then we would certainly take it into serious consideration.

 

Please don't be too hard on yourself (guilt, guilt, guilt--ugh!) if you choose not to homeschool; only you know what's best for your family (plus, you can always come back to it if you wish!). This dilemma reminds me a little of the working-mom vs. stay-at-home mom debate. Let's face it, some moms thrive being at home with the kids, and for others it's a bigger challenge. I think it all comes down to figuring out what's going to make your family a strong and happy family. If homeschooling makes that happen, then super! If not, then, it's not the end of the world. Plenty of good things happen in PS too!

 

Best wishes with whatever you decide!

[Susan in KY]

I'm curious... what is VA?

 

I believe VA=virtual academy.

[Sunshine State Sue]

...if you felt he was lazy (always looking for the easy road to getting school work done or skipping it altogether) and/or you felt he wasn't learning from you?

 

When people ask me if I ever think about putting ds in school, I smile and say I think about putting him in military boarding school every day. :D

 

Actually, that's not as true now as it was a few years ago. Hang in there!

 

Here, putting ds in school would mean he wins the easy road. The poor quality of the schools here have me convinced he could do well with little effort. The other hs'ing families who have taken this route confirm my suspicions. My expectations are much higher. He is not motivated to please a teacher, as evidenced by outsourced classes. He is bright enough to figure out just how little he can do to get a decent grade.

 

But, maybe your child would be motivated by an external teacher. Maybe your local schools are much better than my local schools. What works for me may not work for you. Do what you think is best for your child.

 

Last summer, I wrote this to a friend who is now hs'ing her eldest son (8th grade) for the first time:

I am convinced that it is completely unnatural for ragingly hormonal teens to spend inordinate amounts of time with other ragingly hormonal teens. I am also convinced that it is completely unnatural for ragingly hormonal teen boys to spend inordinate amounts of time with their mothers. They need to be out hunting with the men of the tribe.

 

Last summer, my son volunteered as an assistant basketball coach. For the first time, I saw him exactly where he ought to be: In the company of men doing meaningful (to him) work.

 

So in addition to the other excellent advice you have received (particularly from Cadam) on this thread, here's mine: look for an opportunity for your ds to spend more time with Dad and/or other men doing meaningful (to him) work.

 

Take care. :grouphug:

[radiobrain]

I deleted my 2 posts, as I realized that I had misread the question in the first place.

Edited December 22, 2010 by radiobrain
Sorry! I am a dumb@ss.

[Chris in VA]

No. One of the biggest regrets of my life is having ds19 go thru middle school.

[MIch elle]

YES, and it's one of the BEST decisions we've made! After homeschooling my boys k-8 and k-7, we enrolled them in school (not at the same time). My oldest is now a junior at a Catholic all boys high school; my youngest is in grade 8 at the public school. They are both happy and doing very well in school. I have no regrets either homeschooling them or sending them to school.

[mommaduck]

It really depends. He is at that age when boys tend to do this (this is why hard labour was good good for boys in our history). It also depends on if he is truly being lazy or if he is needing more.

 

Honestly, I would fight it out this year at home, lecture, hand him his work back and make him figure things out, make sure he gets plenty of sleep AND excercise (make him run laps outside or something), and work through to see what it really is that he needs. Whining = more work

 

In our son's case, he needed more. He was truly burnt out on homeschooling, needed more drive and something to drive him, he had moved beyond me in certain subjects (he's advanced academically), and sending him to a private (Catholic) school that is known for positively moving kids forward and actually cares about the kids was a very positive benefit for him. Not only is he kicking butt on his assignments (with drive...he's driven by the competition!), but it also opened up a side of him that needed opening up (my shy geek kid is making friends easily and joined wrestling and drama!). Also, there are very motivated men working there and I think that is partly what my son needed. My dh works an odd shift and I think these other men in his life are helping with that "becoming a man, having a drive for responsibility, etc" thing that boys NEED...and mama can't give that.

Edited December 22, 2010 by mommaduck

[mommaduck]

I am convinced that it is completely unnatural for ragingly hormonal teens to spend inordinate amounts of time with other ragingly hormonal teens. I am also convinced that it is completely unnatural for ragingly hormonal teen boys to spend inordinate amounts of time with their mothers. They need to be out hunting with the men of the tribe.

I <3 this!

[Storm Bay]

I'm in between yes and other. I would have said no a year ago. However, the stress of having a lazy dd who argued with me all of the time was too much. I put her in ps midway through this semester as a sophomore (we can do that here and they don't have to start over as freshman.)

 

While things aren't perfect here is what has happened:

 

1. she does her homework and all of her assignments.

2. after one D in math homework she has finally started organizing her math so that it's legible

3. we get along far better

4. She's getting an A in Composition which means she's writing essays, etc regularly!!!!!

 

She isn't perfect, but she's not the kind of teen who likes things such as drinking, drugs, premarital s*x, etc. As for an education she's in honour Alg 2 because she tested into it and her Comp teacher wants to recommend her for Honours Eng 2, but she's been resistant to it (but she's turning around now from peer input, so we'll see.)

 

This reminds me of a very good thread (except for a bit of arguing over one or two things for a bit) that's been going on on the high school forum about expectations. The education they do and learn from is the best education, and sometimes thats less than the rigourous stuff many of us would prefer.

 

My dd knows she can come home again if she has a good attitude, but right now she has no desire to do so. She's been participating on the math team and on a sports team. Our whole house is much less stressful and my younger dc are happier overall. In hindsight so far, this has been a good thing because I can see now that this particular dd needs this experience before going to university/college.

[Sunshine State Sue]

My general attitude is that it is a privilege that I am home educating them... if they (always my 12 yo) do not appreciate it, work at it, etc, etc... they can go to the crappy public school around the corner.

 

Even before puberty, I would tell my son that there were lots of other things that I could be doing with my time: working, shopping, having lunch with friends, exercising, etc. I wasn't asking for his thanks, but I did need his cooperation. If he couldn't cooperate, then I couldn't homeschool him. That was back in the day when the school bus drove by our house at 8am and 4pm. My son, around 8, knew how to tell time and knew he wasn't spending anything like 8hrs in "school". He might be more tempted these days, but the school bus probably comes by before 6:30 now and he doesn't get up 'til 9. ;)

[MIch elle]

:iagree: And schools don't tend to push students like mum can.

 

Our boys became highly motivated once they attended school. The academic pressure was a positive influence on them. :001_smile:

[mommaduck]

Our boys became highly motivated once they attended school. The academic pressure was a positive influence on them. :001_smile:

It wasn't ours either. It really does depend on the school. Public school is not an option for us for many reasons. The private school I attended as a younger child and my son's private school are a totally different ball of wax in that they do push them, the kids are competitive with each other for grades, etc. Total opposite of *most* public schools.

[elegantlion]

No. One of the biggest regrets of my life is having ds19 go thru middle school.

 

:grouphug: *sigh* :grouphug: I'm sorry.

[Vanna]

I think the poster meant the K12 virtual charter schools. I don't believe they offer one in RI. You'd have to pay the pricey private tuition if you wanted to go that route.

You are right and we can't afford this or pvt school. I am in touch with a "donation" based virtual school, but we need to get the internet up and running on our other computer (I can't have Ds on my computer all day! LOL!)

 

I guess I'm going against the grain here a little . . .

 

We are going through a very similar situation, and I have considered exactly what you are considering. Part of me really feels like they (mostly I'm talking about dd 12) need to "toughen up" and be accountable to someone else. I know for a fact dd would work her tail off to earn a good grade or please a teacher, but she'll give me the whiny run-around all day long. :glare:

 

I think you have to take a look at your relationship with your ds and evaluate whether it would ultimately be stronger or become more strained if you go the PS route (FWIW, in the long run, I care more about my relationship with my kiddos than I do about whether or not they take Latin). I know my dd and I have a wonderful relationship outside of school: she's a great kid-polite and kind to all, respectful of adults, and she's a really hard worker on tasks that matter to her (um, schoolwork is often NOT in that category). :lol:

 

And sometimes I just want to be Mom--and I really enjoy those days when I can be. I don't want to be "the bad guy" all day every day (dh teaches as well, so he can be equally as "bad"). It used to be just a subject or two that brought on the laziness and bad attitude, but lately it's been almost every subject, everyday! :tongue_smilie:

 

We had seriously considered sending them all to PS this January to address some of these issues (similar to the ones you mentioned, including "no, not all time is 'your time'") and to just let everyone "decompress" for a semester because it felt like our homeschool was being "poisoned" (for lack of a better term) by bad attitudes. But in the past few weeks we have decided to go ahead and finish out the school year. We have more breaks planned for the spring semester, so that should help. And I'm going to try to inject a little more "fun" into the schedule. Dh and I have always said we'd take homeschooling year by year, evaluating what is best for the family as a whole. (and who knows, we may dilly dally around with this homeschooling thing long enough that we might actualy get someone graduated! :lol:)

 

However, if we ever feel that homeschooling is ultimately hurting our relationship, and that a little distance, like public or private school might actually help (like I said, we've got a great relationship with dd otherwise), then we would certainly take it into serious consideration.

 

Please don't be too hard on yourself (guilt, guilt, guilt--ugh!) if you choose not to homeschool; only you know what's best for your family (plus, you can always come back to it if you wish!). This dilemma reminds me a little of the working-mom vs. stay-at-home mom debate. Let's face it, some moms thrive being at home with the kids, and for others it's a bigger challenge. I think it all comes down to figuring out what's going to make your family a strong and happy family. If homeschooling makes that happen, then super! If not, then, it's not the end of the world. Plenty of good things happen in PS too!

 

Best wishes with whatever you decide!

Thank you so much! I feel your pain in the situation. Thanks for the encouragement not to be guilty.

 

I believe VA=virtual academy.

Oh, (I feel so *duh* why couldn't I figure that out)? Thanks!

 

When people ask me if I ever think about putting ds in school, I smile and say I think about putting him in military boarding school every day. :D

I've been down that road too! I think I'd do that too if it were financially possible! LOL!

 

Actually, that's not as true now as it was a few years ago. Hang in there!

 

Here, putting ds in school would mean he wins the easy road. The poor quality of the schools here have me convinced he could do well with little effort. The other hs'ing families who have taken this route confirm my suspicions. My expectations are much higher. He is not motivated to please a teacher, as evidenced by outsourced classes. He is bright enough to figure out just how little he can do to get a decent grade.

 

But, maybe your child would be motivated by an external teacher. Maybe your local schools are much better than my local schools. What works for me may not work for you. Do what you think is best for your child.

 

Last summer, I wrote this to a friend who is now hs'ing her eldest son (8th grade) for the first time:

 

 

Last summer, my son volunteered as an assistant basketball coach. For the first time, I saw him exactly where he ought to be: In the company of men doing meaningful (to him) work.

 

So in addition to the other excellent advice you have received (particularly from Cadam) on this thread, here's mine: look for an opportunity for your ds to spend more time with Dad and/or other men doing meaningful (to him) work.

 

Take care. :grouphug:

Oh, that is great on the volunteering. My son volunteered at the library last summer (I basically had to drag him there as he whined about not being sure he could do the work). On his first day, he fell in-love with the work and did really well (they had him helping out with the reading logs for the summer reading program). He's old enough to volunteer as a ref for town soccer -- maybe I should *force* him into that (because I already suggested it to him and he scoffed at the idea).

 

I voted other, as I might put him in school... but only as an eye opener. My 12 yo is driving me CRAZY.

 

I do threaten regular school at least once a month.:tongue_smilie:

Same threats have been given here.

 

My general attitude is that it is a privilege that I am home educating them... if they (always my 12 yo) do not appreciate it, work at it, etc, etc... they can go to the crappy public school around the corner. If he isn't going to bother, then I am not going to bother finding him a better school...

That's JUST exactly how I feel!

 

 

No. One of the biggest regrets of my life is having ds19 go thru middle school.

Oh, sorry Chris! Thanks for your honesty.

 

YES, and it's one of the BEST decisions we've made! After homeschooling my boys k-8 and k-7, we enrolled them in school (not at the same time). My oldest is now a junior at a Catholic all boys high school; my youngest is in grade 8 at the public school. They are both happy and doing very well in school. I have no regrets either homeschooling them or sending them to school.

Do you think your boys had a good experience because of being in a private school setting? (Just curious)

 

It really depends. He is at that age when boys tend to do this (this is why hard labour was good good for boys in our history). It also depends on if he is truly being lazy or if he is needing more.

 

Honestly, I would fight it out this year at home, lecture, hand him his work back and make him figure things out, make sure he gets plenty of sleep AND excercise (make him run laps outside or something), and work through to see what it really is that he needs. Whining = more work

Good advice! Thank you. Do you recommend more school work, more physical work or "all of the above"? And could you (and/or anyone else) suggest what kind of physical work should be done. I confess to being a "city girl" at heart even though we live in the suburbs now. Our landlord does most of the yard work. I ask the kids to clean up leaves/shovel snow when I remember. Hubby does not do yard work (says he's too busy with his work). (((sigh)))

 

In our son's case, he needed more. He was truly burnt out on homeschooling, needed more drive and something to drive him, he had moved beyond me in certain subjects (he's advanced academically), and sending him to a private (Catholic) school that is known for positively moving kids forward and actually cares about the kids was a very positive benefit for him. Not only is he kicking butt on his assignments (with drive...he's driven by the competition!), but it also opened up a side of him that needed opening up (my shy geek kid is making friends easily and joined wrestling and drama!). Also, there are very motivated men working there and I think that is partly what my son needed. My dh works an odd shift and I think these other men in his life are helping with that "becoming a man, having a drive for responsibility, etc" thing that boys NEED...and mama can't give that.

Good point.

 

Thank you all and sorry I couldn't respond to each of you personally. I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.

[SailorMom]

You'll see in my sig I have a DS 13....

We've had a tough time for two years - I can relate.

:grouphug:

[mommaduck]

 

Good advice! Thank you. Do you recommend more school work, more physical work or "all of the above"? And could you (and/or anyone else) suggest what kind of physical work should be done. I confess to being a "city girl" at heart even though we live in the suburbs now. Our landlord does most of the yard work. I ask the kids to clean up leaves/shovel snow when I remember. Hubby does not do yard work (says he's too busy with his work). (((sigh)))

 

 

All of the above. Don't let them oversleep though either (a problem we had). Clean out the car, the garage, help mom rearrange a room, see if the landlord will let him mow grass, have him go on a morning run (when we were in the country we had him run around the barn...in the city, well, not possible)...but yes, you will have *invent* work for him.

 

On the "can't afford private school", we learned something this past year. We live in a poor neighbourhood where a lot of kids can't afford it, but are able to go because of scholarships. If you are Catholic, a full scholarship is a full scholarship. If you are not (we aren't), we get the full scholarship, but have to pay the $1500 (either at once at tax time or in $150mo payments throughout the year) that is usually paid by the parish (we call it the "non-Catholic" fee). We still struggle to do it, but they will work with you in many areas. One kid I know here had his payment knocked down to $75 a month (he's working fast food to pay his own fee...his mom can't pay it. I'm proud of this kid and he's graduating this year). They also keep returned uniforms for those that can't afford them. My son was given several sets. Just a thought. IF this becomes a positive option for you, at least see what help there is available. We would never have dreamed of being able to send our son before because of finances also.

Edited December 22, 2010 by mommaduck

[EKS]

Today, he came to me to ask for help with a math problem he got wrong. It became clear after a lot of his "I don't understand" and "what am I supposed to do next" lines that he really wanted ME to do the work, not him.

 

When my son does this, he gets at least one more math problem like the one he is asking about to do on his own because obviously he needs more practice.

[happyWImom]

I'm curious... what is VA?

 

To all: thank you so much :grouphug: for your thoughts, advice, and esp. for the reassurance that if we continue on in homeschooling that there is much support here to help me get through it.

 

Today's math corrections got "shelved" and we started our Christmas break. I like the idea of having him doing the mistakes over till I get the right answer (I always feel guilty, like it's my responsibility to help him "get it" or figure out another way to solve the math problem.)

 

Sorry-I haven't checked this in a while!

 

Too bad the Virtual Academy isn't available for you-I've thought of doing this myself, because not only would it have the child be accountable to someone else, they would also see how it is to "have" to do a certain curriculum, and not be able to go off on bunny trails, based on interest. Well, you could, but from what I understand, you might get really behind.

 

Good luck; I feel for you.

[Sunshine State Sue]

And could you (and/or anyone else) suggest what kind of physical work should be done.

I pay minimum wage for this work if ds wants to earn money. They can all be used as "consequences" as well.

 

clean car - inside and out

rake leaves

trim bushes

dig weeds

plant a garden

pressure wash pool area, fence, shed, house

clean fridge

wash baseboards

dust (something I rarely do)

wash windows

scrub bathroom grout

 

We have 2 small bathrooms on the hallway in our house. One has a whirlpool tub and one has a tiny shower. The males in my family like to take baths and I like to take showers. So, I lucked out and have my own bathroom. Late last year when ds was being particularly ugly, we had the talk again: You say you don't want to go to school. I don't want to put you in school. I do not deserve to be treated the way that you are treating me. I feel like I am being verbally abused on a daily basis. If this continues, you will scrub the grout in my bathroom. If you refuse, you will go to school. I figured that way, if the behavior continued, at least I would benefit from the consequences. Fortunately (things got better) or unfortunately (I had to scrub the grout myself), the behavior stopped.

[radiobrain]

.

Edited December 22, 2010 by radiobrain

[OregonNative]

I voted other, because I don't know where you are emotionally, mentally etc. with this issue and/or how much it is affecting you. Or if their are other things going on in your life that make this a bigger issue. If any of this is the case, I personally think you should consider putting him in PS for a time. If it's just that he is being lazy and you are at a loss, then I think you have rec'd great advice about keeping him home. I really struggled with lazienss with my DD when we started school, so I feel you pain.

[Storm Bay]

Our boys became highly motivated once they attended school. The academic pressure was a positive influence on them. :001_smile:

Same with my dd. It's ironic, because when she was in ps from K-2 she was not highly motivated. My dd specifically told me that she needed competition to do her school work, but it was difficult to believe her, and she only mentioned wanting to go to ps this fall, but starting next year.

 

No. You will see on this board that these are common issues with this age group in particular. Yes, it is, and it's important not to be too quick to quit homeschooling if this is all it is.

 

What we have tried....

 

~Incorrect work goes back to him to be re-done, multiple times if necessary.

 

~A chat with dad

 

~Hard labor (I must prepare you for life so if you don't want to learn to work with your head you will have to learn to work with your hands)

 

~Pretend he is younger and stay at the table with him to keep him on task and be available for questions. I read or study or do laundry or play with my little one, but we are all in the same room.

 

~I recently had a conversation with ds about ways to make him "less miserable", because I couldn't promise that he wouldn't be miserable at all. We both made compromises and I changed a lot of his work. I saw him actually interested in school work for the first time in years, many years. we went through every subject, talked about what he liked and didn't like and why he didn't like things. I had to evaluate the purpose for those activities and we came up with ways to meet the goals w/o making him so miserable.

 

 

Yes, it's best to pursue all of these first, and if you haven't already, do. y eldest didn't want to go to ps for a long time, so threatening to send her there helped. One day, however, she called me on it. We didn't send her right then, though.

 

No. Character deficiencies don't suddenly disappear by attending school.

:iagree: and this is why I was okay with putting my eldest in ps. Her character flaws were of a nature where ps isn't going to do any damage and her staying at home to school with us was doing all of us more harm than good. Education is about the whole person.

[distancia]

 

~Hard labor (I must prepare you for life so if you don't want to learn to work with your head you will have to learn to work with your hands)

 

 

My sister did that with her extremely bright 16-year old son. He stayed out of public high school for two days and helped the workers dig out a swimming pool in his backyard. He hated it and went on to finish high school at the top of his class. ACT of 34. He then went on to college with a full scholarship.

 

At the end of his sophomore year in college told his parents (my sis and BIL) that he was bored with academia, he wanted to go back to using his hands as well as his head. To the consternation of my sister, he enrolled in jet mechanic school and did fabulously; again, top of his class.

 

After nine months of intense schooling he was offered numerous jobs along with relocation allowances and bonuses [Tip: there is a critical shortage of jet mechanics in this country, and if you have a child who is bright, easily bored, and likes to tinker with mechanical and technical stuff, work on a new project every day, then here is a great job opportunity]. He lives in his own apartment, has paid for his own car, works 6 days a week for 10 hours a day, and wakes up thrilled to go to work each day. He is also making over $55K a year at age 22 and is being trained for a supervisory position.

 

Sorry to go on about this, but I hope you can see that a lazy child, given the proper tools, may become an industrious young adult. That's what I love about the beauty of homeschooling; we have it in our power to motivate our children. :hurray:

[HeidiKC]

Can't wait to read all the replies on this! But I took my son OUT of school for similar reasons! I felt like he wasn't working hard enough and being lazy! I see pros and cons with me now being the teacher. When he was in school it wasn't always clear to me what the details were concerning the assignment or how "good" his work needed to be, so I think he got away (from me) with doing less than he should have. BUT, he was still getting A's and is definitely the type that cares about grades (which I'm not giving him) and making the teacher happy. So he at least worked hard enough to follow the rules and get A's. He was definitely more responsible about his work (doing it ALL, getting it done on time, etc.) when he was at school.

 

With me now, he'll try to skip stuff (that he wouldn't have skipped with a teacher, since it would have been breaking rules) and be lazy in ways like that. Or, as you described, not working hard enough on a problem himself and giving up too soon. He wouldn't have done that in school. BUT, I think the advantage of me homeschooling him is that I know exactly what he's supposed to be doing and really stay on top of him to make sure it gets done and he's working hard. This is definitely a PAIN and frustrates me, but in the end he is working harder for me than he did at school, I think. So I would not put him back in school if I were in your shoes! I think the response about having a discussion with him about what he thinks would work for him is good. I've found that effective as well.

[Vanna]

I voted other, because I don't know where you are emotionally, mentally etc. with this issue and/or how much it is affecting you. Or if their are other things going on in your life that make this a bigger issue. If any of this is the case, I personally think you should consider putting him in PS for a time. If it's just that he is being lazy and you are at a loss, then I think you have rec'd great advice about keeping him home. I really struggled with lazienss with my DD when we started school, so I feel you pain.

Wow! Thanks for wanting to be sensitive to where I am emo., ment, etc. :001_smile: I will say that I'm not at the "straw that broke the camel's back" point at all. Reading the posts of today jogged my memory of how long this "looking for the easy way out" for ds13 has been going on -- for years! For example, last yr he was doing TT7 (it's a CD-Rom Math program that teaches, tests and keeps score, at least for grades 4-7) and he figured out that he could get a high score on his assignments by doing the simple problems and "skipping" the harder ones. I then had to require all example be done no matter how simple or hard.:glare: It's stuff like that that gets me *mad* and makes me think, "Why am I doing this for this ungrateful child?"

 

My sister did that with her extremely bright 16-year old son...

 

After nine months of intense schooling he was offered numerous jobs along with relocation allowances and bonuses [Tip: there is a critical shortage of jet mechanics in this country, and if you have a child who is bright, easily bored, and likes to tinker with mechanical and technical stuff, work on a new project every day, then here is a great job opportunity]. He lives in his own apartment, has paid for his own car, works 6 days a week for 10 hours a day, and wakes up thrilled to go to work each day. He is also making over $55K a year at age 22 and is being trained for a supervisory position.

Sweet!

 

Sorry to go on about this, but I hope you can see that a lazy child, given the proper tools, may become an industrious young adult. That's what I love about the beauty of homeschooling; we have it in our power to motivate our children. :hurray:

This is a good tip. Ds13 is interested in filmmaking, but part of me doesn't want to encourage that as a career path(aren't film students a dime a dozen nowadays?) and part of me is trying to steer that interest to be treated as a "hobby" of sorts.

 

Can't wait to read all the replies on this! But I took my son OUT of school for similar reasons! I felt like he wasn't working hard enough and being lazy!

How 'bout that! :thumbup:

 

I see pros and cons with me now being the teacher. When he was in school it wasn't always clear to me what the details were concerning the assignment or how "good" his work needed to be, so I think he got away (from me) with doing less than he should have. BUT, he was still getting A's and is definitely the type that cares about grades (which I'm not giving him) and making the teacher happy. So he at least worked hard enough to follow the rules and get A's. He was definitely more responsible about his work (doing it ALL, getting it done on time, etc.) when he was at school.

 

With me now, he'll try to skip stuff (that he wouldn't have skipped with a teacher, since it would have been breaking rules) and be lazy in ways like that. Or, as you described, not working hard enough on a problem himself and giving up too soon. He wouldn't have done that in school. BUT, I think the advantage of me homeschooling him is that I know exactly what he's supposed to be doing and really stay on top of him to make sure it gets done and he's working hard. This is definitely a PAIN and frustrates me, but in the end he is working harder for me than he did at school, I think. So I would not put him back in school if I were in your shoes! I think the response about having a discussion with him about what he thinks would work for him is good. I've found that effective as well.

Good advice! Thank you.

 

Hubs and I talked about this some today. I brought up the possibility of putting him in school and he really wants me to stick it out because "we've come this far" and "so many of our friends have graduated their kids from homeschool high and their doing just fine" and I totally hear that. He said to keep him involved (hubs works from home) and call him in at the *least* sign of trouble (which we've done all school yr -- sometimes more than one meeting a day in "the principal's office";)).

 

Once again, thank you all for your responses (and keep them coming if you're just coming in on this conversation). :bigear: I *boffed* up the poll closing date when I set it (and I wasn't able to find how to edit it) but we can still post.

[Testimony]

No, I have read somewhere from SWB that this behavior is common. I would try and make him more accountable for his actions.

 

Sincerely,

Karen

[phathui5]

No, I wouldn't send him. It's too easy to skate through school without really doing any work.