MN math standards-how to do it?

[Jeanne in MN]

In MN, math requirements to graduate high school and get into college require the student to take geometry, stats/probability, and two years of algebra. That is four years of math. (and twice what I needed when I was in high school and went to college.)

 

How do people do consumer math or business math or trig. or calculus? Help me wrap my mind around this. :001_huh:

[regentrude]

You either start with algebra earlier, or you take extra math classes as an elective.

[creekland]

In our school system (public), math talented kids start Alg 1 in 7th grade, average math kids start Alg 1 in 8th grade, and lesser math talented kids start Alg 1 in 9th grade. Therefore, the majority have that class finished prior to high school.

 

Then, stats/probability is not its own class for most kids, but rather, that topic is included in other classes - spread out over Alg 2 and Pre-Calc, with most coming in Alg 2. SOME students take Stats as its own class, but not the majority nor is that specific class needed to graduate - just covering the topic is sufficient. Of course, the class goes in far more depth than what is covered in the other classes. Pre-Calc is the new name for Trig - covering Trig (traditionally a half year course) and more.

 

Alg 2 and Geometry are their own classes and most students take those and Pre-Calc in high school leaving them room for one more (Stats, College Alg, Calc, or Business Math). If they double up or started Alg 1 in 7th they can take more. Geometry and Alg 2 can be taken at the same time. College Alg, Calc, and Stats can all be taken at the same time.

 

Lesser talented math kids take Alg 1, Geometry, Alg 2, and what our school calls a "standards" class - a class that simply reviews several topics covered on the PSSA test (state test). It's actually a decent class for those that just need more math practice or math review and has done a bit to increase our school's scores in math. Some kids simply need more instruction/practice.

[4wildberrys]

In our school system (public), math talented kids start Alg 1 in 7th grade, average math kids start Alg 1 in 8th grade, and lesser math talented kids start Alg 1 in 9th grade. There

 

Lesser talented math kids take Alg 1, Geometry, Alg 2, and what our school calls a "standards" class - a class that simply reviews several topics covered on the PSSA test (state test). It's actually a decent class for those that just need more math practice or math review and has done a bit to increase our school's scores in math. Some kids simply need more instruction/practice.

 

 

How do public schools come up with 'standards' like this? Honestly----'lesser talented in math' kids take Alg 1 in 9th----when that USED to be the standard?? :confused: A LOT of kids aren't even developmentally ready for Alg 1 until 9th----even if they ARE talented in math. Sheesh---perhaps the classes are dumbed down or grades are inflated?

 

Sorry to hijack in order to rant----but these 'new' standards in certain states that force schools to cram stuff into kids even if they don't get it or aren't ready for it yet, simply to fulfill 'standards' just makes my blood boil.:rant:

[flyingiguana]

I wasn't aware of most MN kids taking stats in high school unless they did it as the AP course.

 

And my daughter got into MN colleges just fine without a separate stats class.

 

At the local high school (MN), trig is combined with the Alg 2 year.

 

Generally, what kids do is start this sequence whenever they are ready:

Alg 1

Geometry

Alg 2/Trig

Pre-Calc

Calculus or AP Statistics

but they just start when it's deemed they are ready, and they finish with, well, whatever they finish on. If they need more, they take it in college.

 

I believe I even know MN ps kids who didn't do math all 4 years. They still graduated and got into college (with scholarships).

 

There was a requirement that kids take biology while in high school or they can't graduate -- which was going to cause a problem for my daughter if she had gone to ps because she'd already had biology and was ready to start chem in 9th grade. They were going to make her take bio again, if I didn't come up with "paperwork" saying she'd already had it. I never figured out what the paperwork was because she decided she didn't want to go to ps.

[creekland]

How do public schools come up with 'standards' like this? Honestly----'lesser talented in math' kids take Alg 1 in 9th----when that USED to be the standard?? :confused: A LOT of kids aren't even developmentally ready for Alg 1 until 9th----even if they ARE talented in math. Sheesh---perhaps the classes are dumbed down or grades are inflated?

 

Sorry to hijack in order to rant----but these 'new' standards in certain states that force schools to cram stuff into kids even if they don't get it or aren't ready for it yet, simply to fulfill 'standards' just makes my blood boil.:rant:

 

Our standards are based on what the state weenies say need to be covered in high school. They aren't too bad, but like with everything, if "I" got to make the list I'd adjust it in areas.

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with starting Alg 1 earlier than 9th grade if the student is ready. Of course, in our school district, they don't always check for readiness as much as pick the top 10% of math students to be in the class in 7th. Most are ready. Some should probably have waited.

 

Starting Alg 1 in 9th (here) is not a problem other than perhaps more behavior issues in the classes from kids who really don't want to be in school. Kids can double up courses and do just fine if they are one of those "later" bloomers in math. We've had some that are successful in future math heavy majors.

 

Courses are not dumbed down in 7th or 8th. If anything, they are a little tougher as these kids are supposed to be able to handle tougher materials. That said, I REALLY dislike the curriculum the school uses (CPM Math) and do NOT recommend it as I am not seeing good results at all.

 

Regardless of curricula used, all students in our high school will need to pass the state's Keystone exams next year (including Alg 1) to graduate. That will be "interesting" to say the least as some students simply struggle with abstract math (or even non-abstract math). I'm not at all in agreement with the new standards in that aspect. I'm just reporting what is happening.

[creekland]

 

I believe I even know MN ps kids who didn't do math all 4 years. They still graduated and got into college (with scholarships).

 

 

 

Our school just changed the requirement from 3 to 4 years with this year's sophomore class (changed when they were freshmen last year). I'm not certain if it's a state requirement or our school itself.

 

At one point in time it was 2 years of math required.

[Elizabeth in WA]

How do public schools come up with 'standards' like this? Honestly----'lesser talented in math' kids take Alg 1 in 9th----when that USED to be the standard?? :confused: A LOT of kids aren't even developmentally ready for Alg 1 until 9th----even if they ARE talented in math. Sheesh---perhaps the classes are dumbed down or grades are inflated?

 

Maybe students aren't ready, but I do not think this is a function of age. Piaget is usually the basis of such claims, but his theories have not stood up well to more recent research, at least not when pegged to particular ages.

 

Young children are capable of far greater learning of mathematics than those in the United States typically attain.

 

Learning and development are incremental processes that occur gradually and continuously over many years (Siegler, 1996). Even during the preschool period, children have considerably greater reasoning and problem solving ability than was suspected until recently (Gelman, 2003; Gopnik, Meltzoff, & Kuhl, 1999). As stated in a recent report on the teaching and learning of science, “What children are capable of at a particular age is the result of a complex interplay among maturation, experience, and instruction. What is developmentally appropriate is not a simple function of age or grade, but rather is largely contingent on prior opportunities to learn” (Duschl, Schweingruber, & Shouse, 2007, p. 2). Claims based, in part, on Piaget’s highly influential theory that children of particular ages cannot learn certain content because they are “too young,” “not in the appropriate stage,” or “not ready” have consistently been shown to be wrong (Gelman & Williams, 1998). Nor are claims justified that children cannot learn particular ideas because their brains are insufficiently developed, even if they possess the prerequisite knowledge for learning the ideas. As noted by Bruer (2002), research on brain development simply does not support such claims.

 

These findings have special relevance to mathematics learning. Research on students in East Asia and Europe show that children are capable of learning far more advanced math than those in the United States typically are taught (Geary, 2006). There is no reason to think that children in the United States are less capable of learning relatively advanced mathematical concepts and procedures than are their peers in other countries.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/bdscomm/list/mathpanel/report/learning-processes.pdf page 4.6 Edited December 20, 2010 by Elizabeth in WA
fixed quote

[Julie in MN]

In MN, math requirements to graduate high school and get into college require the student to take geometry, stats/probability, and two years of algebra. That is four years of math. (and twice what I needed when I was in high school and went to college.)

 

How do people do consumer math or business math or trig. or calculus? Help me wrap my mind around this. :001_huh:

 

Jeanne,

I'm curious where you get the info on that requirement. Very few states have anything you could call "graduation requirements" for private homeschools -- and Minnesota is not one of them.

 

And even in the public schools, requirements vary. At this time, the Richfield school district where I live requires 3 years of math to graduate. And believe me, students graduate with 3 years of under-par math at times.

 

The U of M also only requires 3 years of math unless you are going into a math-heavy major. And if you don't have the math, then you just take non-credit courses to make it up, unless you are applying to a very competitive major.

 

Normandale Community College is near us and they test students to see if they may be admitted into individual courses or must take non-credit make-up courses, but they don't really "require" certain math courses for admission.

 

Julie

[Jeanne in MN]

Julie, I guess I went by the MN Dept. of Ed. and what their grad requirements were. I never heard that as hsers we don't need to follow their criteria. Is there somewhere I can find this info.?

 

Between state high school grad. requirements and entrance into a state college (not a community college) kids must have Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry and Stats/Probability. It sounds like Stats and Prob. can be covered in Algebra 2, though, so that helps save a year.

 

I went through my MACHE handbook to find the high school requirements, but didn't find anything! Would love to know what you are going by as a MN hsing family. Thanks!

 

Jeanne,

I'm curious where you get the info on that requirement. Very few states have anything you could call "graduation requirements" for private homeschools -- and Minnesota is not one of them.

 

And even in the public schools, requirements vary. At this time, the Richfield school district where I live requires 3 years of math to graduate. And believe me, students graduate with 3 years of under-par math at times.

 

The U of M also only requires 3 years of math unless you are going into a math-heavy major. And if you don't have the math, then you just take non-credit courses to make it up, unless you are applying to a very competitive major.

 

Normandale Community College is near us and they test students to see if they may be admitted into individual courses or must take non-credit make-up courses, but they don't really "require" certain math courses for admission.

 

Julie

[flyingiguana]

I've never seen any specific MN homeschool requirements except something to the effect that "instruction must be provided in the following areas" with a list that includes generic things like math, English etc. These were sent to us when we declared our intent to homeschool. They were fairly nonspecific. My guess is that you can't find MN requirements because there aren't any.

 

And if there are, we haven't been following them. Other than the yearly testing, no one has ever checked up on us. (Although that might vary by which school district you happen to live in. Ours doesn't care. If you are hearing a different story, it may be the district you're in.) I've graduated one kid out of homeschool and she's now in college. She didn't seem to be hampered by the MN high school requirements. I'm pretty sure that MN has statewide requirements for graduation from their public schools, but I don't think this applies to homeschools, and possibly not even to private schools.

 

College requirements for admission are more important, if your students plan on college. You might want to look up some college websites to see their requirements.

 

Here's one from Macalester, which I suspect has very rigorous requirements, as colleges go:

"Secondary School Preparation

Macalester expects applicants to have completed (at a minimum) a secondary school curriculum consisting of: four years of English; three years of history or social science; three years of mathematics; three years of laboratory science; and three years of foreign language. In addition, Macalester expects its applicants will have taken at least some of the honors or advanced courses available at their secondary schools. Macalester uses no minimum grade point average as a threshold for admission, and no applicant will be disqualified for lacking a particular course."

 

They don't specify which math or science should be covered, only the number of years. And Macalester, like most colleges, is often willing to overlook any deficiencies if the student has something else to offer.

 

The UM might be less forgiving, being a larger institution. I'm not sure what their requirements are, although one could probably find them fairly easily.

[SkateLeft]

We moved to MN last year (August 2009), from California, and what Julie says is what we follow also. As independent homeschoolers, we don't have to follow the state graduation requirements. I used them as a guide to create our educational plan, along with the U of M and UC admissions requirements, and we won't have trouble meeting them, especially since my daughter is planning on full-time PSEO next year.

 

I have handouts from Linda Lopez's high school planning workshop. She's a former guidance counselor who does these through YEAH periodically throughout the year, (if you're in the Twin Cities area), but my daughter and I attended her workshop at the Catholic home ed conference last May. She notes that "by 2015, the state MN will require Algebra I by the end of 8th grade," but also that "as a home educator in Minnesota, you are responsible for determining graduation requirements."

 

I'll have to dig through the pile of handouts and see if I can find the one that covers the legal specifics.

 

According to the MN Dept of Ed homeschooling website: http://education.state.mn.us/MDE/Academic_Excellence/School_Choice/Nonpublic_School_Choice/Home_Schooling/index.html

 

"Homeschools are private schools that provide their own curriculum, transcripts and diplomas, which the Minnesota Department of Education does not vouch for or certify."

 

According to the documents there, homeschools in MN fall under the laws for nonpublic schools, and are not required to adhere to laws which apply specifically to public schools:

 

"Minnesota Statutes, section 120A.22 requires that nonpublic schools provide instruction in the

following subject areas:

(1) basic communication skills including reading and writing, literature and fine arts;

(2) mathematics and science;

(3) social studies including history, geography and government; and

(4) health and physical education.

Instruction, textbooks and materials must be in the English language. Another language may be used pursuant to sections 124D.59 to 124D.61."

 

So there are no specific standards outlined for graduation.

 

I hope this helps a bit! Sorry it's a little incoherent. I've got a nasty head cold, so my brain isn't functioning very well.

[oldskool]

In MN, math requirements to graduate high school and get into college require the student to take geometry, stats/probability, and two years of algebra. That is four years of math. (and twice what I needed when I was in high school and went to college.)

 

How do people do consumer math or business math or trig. or calculus? Help me wrap my mind around this. :001_huh:

 

 

My understanding is that MN only requires 3 years of math and does not specify which courses that should be included beyond algebra. According to the state standard, algebra 1 is no longer considered a high school course and cannot be counted for high school credit. That said...I have heard that this is not working out so well and that some districts now have algebra "light" in 8th. I was very worried about this because my dd was not ready for algebra this year and she is in 8th. I finally decided to forget about the state standards and focus on college requirements. Many of the selective colleges are only asking for 3 years of math and they do count algebra 1 as a high school course because nationally that is most common. Even many of our private schools still teach algebra for 9th and only require 3 years of math for graduation. I would look more to the colleges that your child could apply to or perusing other high school websites (pubic and private) to look at requirements rather than going exclusively by state recommendations.

 

And if you think about it, there is no way that some of our high school kids will be able to pass four years of higher level math. It is just the honest truth whether the state standard is there or not. As homeschoolers I am not sure how much we are mandated to teach to the standards. I certainly don't and won't. I homeschool because I didn't like the standards and I will continue to teach material that meets my children where they are at.

 

Lesley

Edited December 28, 2010 by oldskool
clarification

[Julie in MN]

Julie, I guess I went by the MN Dept. of Ed. and what their grad requirements were. I never heard that as hsers we don't need to follow their criteria. Is there somewhere I can find this info.?

 

Between state high school grad. requirements and entrance into a state college (not a community college) kids must have Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry and Stats/Probability. It sounds like Stats and Prob. can be covered in Algebra 2, though, so that helps save a year.

 

I went through my MACHE handbook to find the high school requirements, but didn't find anything! Would love to know what you are going by as a MN hsing family. Thanks!

 

Hi Jeanne,

As for what is absolutely "required" of homeschoolers in MN, I rely on HSLDA. Here is their summary. It really isn't different than what you've already been doing in elementary.

http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/Minnesota.pdf

 

As for what I want to put on my school's transcript, that is up to me. I have talked with HSLDA about this, because some of their wording mentions "graduation requirements," and they only mentioned three states with actual "requirements" (plus one other that says the student must be 18 or meet certain criteria) but as I read those, they are still pretty broad. For instance, North Dakota: http://www.hslda.org/laws/analysis/North_Dakota.pdf

 

The thing you should spend the most time on, IMHO, is looking at what colleges your child is interested in. If they are competitive colleges, then you want to meet all the expectations before going in. If they are not competitive, you still may want to meet their expectations in order to save money (many make-up classes are non-credit and still cost the same as credit classes, although some like foreign languages do receive college credit but go at a faster college pace).

 

Julie

[MicheleinMN]

Maybe that's why so many kids are labelled Title 1 at the schools these days.

 

My advanced student did not do statistics or economics and will only do one semester of Calculus. She's accepted to two colleges so far.

 

My dear sons would never make it through high school if those are the actual math requirements. I see the school here pushing kids to work in higher and higher level books, but they only skim the surface of the work required and are not learning the material. (Except for the advanced students.)

(Ds 14 keeps pushing to go to the ps high school, so I have been trying to find out a bit about what gets done there.)

 

In Minnesota the public school requirements have very little to do with how I home educate my children. We do our annual testing, but do not turn those results into anyone. Some parents are required to send in quarterly report cards, but as there is no one checking your curricula choices, you are free to grade your children's progress as you see fit.

 

HTH

[Leav97]

Julie, I guess I went by the MN Dept. of Ed. and what their grad requirements were. I never heard that as hsers we don't need to follow their criteria. Is there somewhere I can find this info.?

 

Between state high school grad. requirements and entrance into a state college (not a community college) kids must have Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Geometry and Stats/Probability. It sounds like Stats and Prob. can be covered in Algebra 2, though, so that helps save a year.

 

I went through my MACHE handbook to find the high school requirements, but didn't find anything! Would love to know what you are going by as a MN hsing family. Thanks!

 

 

MN homeschooling law only says

Instruction must be provided in at least the following subject areas:

(1) basic communication skills including reading and writing, literature, and fine arts;

(2) mathematics and science;

(3) social studies including history, geography, and government; and

(4) health and physical education"

Minn. Stat. Ann. § 120A.22 subd.9.

 

It doesn't specify following the graduation requirements for public schools.

 

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=120a.22

[Jeanne in MN]

Wow, I didn't realize the grad requirements didn't pertain to hsers. I guess I had a form I got from a workshop on homeschooling high school that had the MN state grad. requirements and state college entrance requirements. I assumed it pertained to us as well. That changes things a bit.

 

I'm looking into all the websites and links posted here. I will also look more at the potential colleges for direction than the state grade requirements. Thank you all so much!! I'm still shaking my head that I got this far and didn't realize all you have pointed out.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!