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Colleen

Why do some of you view the board in linear mode?

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I use hybrid mode, because it seems to merge the best of both worlds. I allows me to quickly scan some of the content of the posts, see what sort of order they're in, and go to the one I want to post under. It also allows me to quickly click on any post I want to read and see it in large, easier to read format. When a thread gets very, very long, and I want to read a series of posts that are together, I will switch over to linear mode and read through those, then switch back.

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And when I look at my post (in hybrid mode)...it's right under Pam's.

 

I almost always use the quote button when I reply. I did when I just now responded to you, as well.

 

I think I get what you're saying, though; you want me to include an actual quote from the person I'm responding to, so that you know who I'm addressing.

 

It's not the method (reply vs. quote), it's that not everyone is keeping material from the person they're responding to. If we did, it would make it easier on those viewing in linear.

 

Or, you guys could just view in hybrid. (*G*...I'm teasing, in case it doesn't come across).

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...as to why I don't keep the quoted material in my reply post...it's because it can be a little laborious, moving the cursor to just keep part of someone's lengthy post, as opposed to just highlighting and deleting. It's an ease of use thing.

 

I'll try to do that in the future, for those of you committed to linear mode, lol...but I'm not promising. ;)

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I'm used to this format on other boards. In addition, it's less scrolling. I don't have to scroll past every single post just to see the most recent topics.

 

Personally, being used to the linear mode, I forget that some people use it in hybrid mode, and didn't realize that most here use it that way. I'll be careful to hit the reply button on the specific post to which I am replying, from here on out. Thank you for the post! :)

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Can you scroll in your hybrid box? I can only do so in Firefox, not in IE, so it makes no sense to use hybrid when I can't access Firefox, like in the university computer labs.

 

Pam, have you tried clicking within the hybrid box and using the arrow keys to scroll up and down when you are in IE? I think it was Peek that posted that technique when admin allowed the title line to contain more characters.

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Pam, have you tried clicking within the hybrid box and using the arrow keys to scroll up and down when you are in IE? I think it was Peek that posted that technique when admin allowed the title line to contain more characters.

 

Thanks! I'll try this next time I open the boards at school.

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nor do I get the little orange boxes that alert me to new posts. I pretty much have to read through the entire thread or remember which ones I already read. Anyone know why? I just posted this question here (in the thread) because it seemed like a logical place to ask this question. Also, I didn't use the quote function because I somehow always mess it up. I am technologically challenged. :tongue_smilie:

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...as to why I don't keep the quoted material in my reply post...it's because it can be a little laborious, moving the cursor to just keep part of someone's lengthy post, as opposed to just highlighting and deleting. It's an ease of use thing.

 

I'll try to do that in the future, for those of you committed to linear mode, lol...but I'm not promising. ;)

Even taking the time to explicitly mention what you're talking about about (as opposed to "I agree" or "I've used that too") can make a all the necessary difference.

 

Here's an example:

 

I am surprised as well but I was also surprised to hear that not everyone is seeing it the same way.
OK, surprised by what? I have no idea what is being referred to. I'm not trying to pick on this poster, as this type of post is common to these boards.

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Even taking the time to explicitly mention what you're talking about about (as opposed to "I agree" or "I've used that too") can make a all the necessary difference.

 

I can see what you're saying... but of course, if you ever really need to know what the reference is, you can always switch to hybrid temporarily and see what the poster was responding to :). And truthfully, that's really not *any* more trouble than it is for hybrid users to be careful and include quotes in their messages for the benefit of the linear users... *someone* has to take the extra time and effort to click a few more buttons and I don't see why that burden should always fall to the hybrid user. Besides, that would leave the quick reply feature useless.

 

So, the hybrid users are not careful to always quote, and the linear users are not careful to always put their reply under the proper post. I think those quirks are easy enough to overlook, to be honest. There will always be aggravations no matter what mode you use, but for the most part I think we have all done a pretty good job of following the conversations and enjoying the boards in whatever mode we prefer :).

 

I will try to quote more often, though. Honest!

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I can see what you're saying... but of course, if you ever really need to know what the reference is, you can always switch to hybrid temporarily and see what the poster was responding to :). And truthfully, that's really not *any* more trouble than it is for hybrid users to be careful and include quotes in their messages for the benefit of the linear users... *someone* has to take the extra time and effort to click a few more buttons and I don't see why that burden should always fall to the hybrid user.
I don't view keeping threads intact out of resptect for threaded or hybrid users as a burden, rather a courtesy. :)

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...as to why I don't keep the quoted material in my reply post...it's because it can be a little laborious, moving the cursor to just keep part of someone's lengthy post, as opposed to just highlighting and deleting.

 

I can see what you're saying... but of course, if you ever really need to know what the reference is, you can always switch to hybrid temporarily and see what the poster was responding to :).

 

Is it really that hard for y'all to leave a little bit of the post to which you are responding? It seems so selfish* to say that it's up to those of us in linear mode to make sure we understand what you're saying. I think it's the responsibility of the person writing to make sure she is communicating clearly.

 

(pressing "submit reply" with trepidation...I don't think I've ever been this confrontational on the board before:leaving:)

 

*I apologize for using the word selfish here. I should have found another way to get my point across.

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But the threads *are* intact... you've just chosen to sort and view the posts in chronological order, instead of their intact relative order.

 

I really don't think anyone is being discourteous to anyone here - not intentionally, at least. I went to two other boards I frequent who use this format (one a weather forum, the other a travel forum) just to see what the norm is there (I've never paid attention, to be honest). Linear is the only viewing option and rarely do the posters quote each other in their responses. What they do is address the person they are responding to by name. I can't find where anyone is complaining about it, either. So I'm not so sure about the idea that everyone everywhere else is more courteous and does this as regular protocol. That may be true on certain boards, but I don't think that the way people post here is an anomoly.

 

AS long as admin makes the quick reply feature available to us, I assume that they don't intend to encourage any "unspoken but understood" rules about quoting text in your responses. And since most of the posters on this forum probably won't even read this thread, I doubt many will stumble upon the idea that quoting is an act of courtesy. Most are like me, viewing in threaded mode, who honestly didn't know about the woes of the linear viewer :). So its not discourtesy as much as it is honestly being unaware.

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Is it really that hard for y'all to leave a little bit of the post to which you are responding? It seems so selfish to say that it's up to those of us in linear mode to make sure we understand what you're saying. I think it's the responsibility of the person writing to make sure she is communicating clearly.
I would just like to repeat that members not quoting text or adding a sentence to make things clear is not a pervasive issue on any other vBulletin board I frequent. This is not the old board... it's a new board with new conventions. Over time I'm sure it will be less of an issue here too.

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I really don't think anyone is being discourteous to anyone here - not intentionally, at least. I went to two other boards I frequent who use this format (one a weather forum, the other a travel forum) just to see what the norm is there (I've never paid attention, to be honest). Linear is the only viewing option and rarely do the posters quote each other in their responses. What they do is address the person they are responding to by name. I can't find where anyone is complaining about it, either.
You mean members take the time to add material so their train of thought can be followed. I'm not sure I see why anyone would complain. :) Also keep in mind that different conventions can be used depending upon how busy a board/thread is.

 

FWIW, the biggest vBulletin board I frequent, Mothering, does have threaded and hybrid modes.

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Is it really that hard for y'all to leave a little bit of the post to which you are responding?

 

We aren't deleting bits of the post when we respond. It's not like we're selfishly not leaving them... it's that we havea quick reply feature that goes straight to a blank message box. To go back to the post and cut and paste and wrap quote marks around it is a lot of trouble. What is the point of having quick reply if you're not making a quick reply, kwim?

 

Now that I know that this is helpful to linear viewers, I will certainly use it more often (when I think it makes a difference), but you have to understand that not everyone views in linear and they don't understand that linear viewers can't follow the conversation. They're not being selfish, they are simply ignorant to your situation. I am hesitant to scold all these wonderful women! My point is that it is just as easy for you, with two clicks of the mouse, to switch to hybrid and back when you want to see exactly who or what someone was responding to (if it's not clear). I can not tell you how many times someone obviously in linear mode posted a response that ended up somewhere that it should not have (they hit reply under the wrong post) and it confused the conversation - and they certainly didn't include quotes in their reply that would have made things clear. I would never accuse them of being discourteous or selfish! Hybrid users are not the only ones leaving out quotes which would make responses more clearly understood. Linear users do it too, and they put their posts under replies to which they aren't even replying. I think Moria did so in this very thread!

 

The point is that no one is being selfish or discourteous, and I think we should all show a little charity to each other and extend a little grace when we know for a fact the other never intended to do anything but make a contribution to a conversation, however awkwardly phrased or formatted or inserted.

 

 

ETA: I think I should quit posting on this, because it almost sounds like I'm getting all worked up! LOL I'm not... believe me... I just think perhaps the trouble this supposedly causing is maybe getting blown out of proportion a bit. I just don't see it as a huge issue, or least it shouldn't be a huge issue. Every board has it's "feel" and "culture"... we're still finding our footing here... we need to be tolerant and patient. This board will never be like every other one out there.. if it were, I wouldn't be interested in it... and for many, this is the ONLY board they frequent and you know, it's just not fair to expect them to behave like people elsewhere. We just don't need to be picking on each other about this, imo, inferring that others are discourteous or selfish when the truth is they're probably either clueless or made a clumsy mistake.

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The point is that no one is being selfish or discourteous, and I think we should all show a little charity to each other and extend a little grace when we know for a fact the other never intended to do anything but make a contribution to a conversation, however awkwardly phrased or formatted or inserted.
I only used the word "courtesy," not the others. If one is ignorant of conventions or of other ways of looking at the board, I don't think that is a discourtesy. I wish there were stickies in the all forums, at least temporarily, explaining to everyone how the board works with respect to the different ways of viewing.

 

One thing though -- I don't think any of us can say that "most" people view one way or another. Not everyone is a power poster with the old board still fresh in their mind; there are plenty of occasional posters and lurkers on this board.

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(they hit reply under the wrong post)

 

Actually, when using linear, I hit a general "reply" button that is at the bottom of the page. It is not "under" any particular post -- it's just sort of a "next reply in chronological order" button which is very big and easy to find, and seems to be programmed in to be the preferred option. So, no, I suspect the linear users aren't hitting reply under the "wrong" post, because we're hitting the big reply button under ALL the posts.

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A: I think I should quit posting on this, because it almost sounds like I'm getting all worked up! LOL I'm not... believe me... I just think perhaps the trouble this supposedly causing is maybe getting blown out of proportion a bit. I just don't see it as a huge issue, or least it shouldn't be a huge issue. Every board has it's "feel" and "culture"... we're still finding our footing here... we need to be tolerant and patient. This board will never be like every other one out there.. if it were, I wouldn't be interested in it... and for many, this is the ONLY board they frequent and you know, it's just not fair to expect them to behave like people elsewhere. We just don't need to be picking on each other about this, imo, inferring that others are discourteous or selfish when the truth is they're probably either clueless or made a clumsy mistake.

 

I don't see this conversation as picking on anyone. I've learned a lot about how other people view this board.

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Believe me, saying "David, I agree!" is not much more informing than "I agree". You still have to go back and find David's comments to see what they are agreeing with, since it wasn't quoted in the reply. :)

 

The other forums I frequent are not primarily women and are certainly not homeschooling boards, so maybe that's the difference. They hardly ever quote in their replies unless there is a very specific detail that they are challenging or inquiring about. I just think that every place has it's own unique culture/accepted way of doing things, and that that's a good thing!

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Gail, some linear users do hit reply under individual posts. I suppose it's because they don't realize that it shows up as being a reply to that post since they are in linear view. Someone else in this thread has already admitted to doing that, because she honestly didn't know that it made a difference which "reply" button she used. So yes, sometimes a post shows up as a reply to one post when it was never intended to be a reply to that post... and if you are in threaded view it can be a little confusing because when read in one context the post can sometimes say something that the poster didn't intend (because she was actually replying to a different post or the original post).

 

Hope that makes sense. Yes, this has entered the "picking on" zone in my mind because of statements that imply that this is commonly understood courtesy and posters are being selfish for not following it. I've learned a lot too, including the fact that we should be patient with each other in these areas :).

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Okay, Robin, thanks for the info. You're probably right. I had figured out the difference in the reply buttons years ago on another board, and assumed that everyone else was ahead of me on that since I'm usually the last to figure out anything.

 

So. I hit the quick reply for this, and you know what? I don't instantly see all the little smileys to pick and choose (they come up automatically when I use the "Post Reply" button at the bottom). I guess I have to hit the "Go Advanced" for that. Oh, and the top of my post just disappeared from my view, and I've already forgotten how I started this post. Hmmm, this is so not me ... I love my little smileys, and obviously don't have the attention span necessary to use this reply button.

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Something bothered me about our last exchange, but I think I've figured it out.

 

But the threads *are* intact... you've just chosen to sort and view the posts in chronological order, instead of their intact relative order.

 

Was this in response to:

 

I don't view keeping threads intact out of resptect for threaded or hybrid users as a burden, rather a courtesy. :)

 

I think it was, but I had to switch to threaded mode to figure it out.

 

I was talking about me... I don't view it as a "burden" for me to try to keep threads intact for the benefit of those who read in threaded mode.

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Hope that makes sense. Yes, this has entered the "picking on" zone in my mind because of statements that imply that this is commonly understood courtesy and posters are being selfish for not following it. I've learned a lot too, including the fact that we should be patient with each other in these areas :).

 

I have read most of this thread (I think I've been keeping up with it) but I might have missed a few posts. I definitely did say that I don't know to whom some posts are addressed. There are people who just post "I agree" with no context. It's impossible for the reader in linear mode to tell with whom that poster is agreeing. I don't think it's selfish at all (even if they are doing it knowingly) but if they are trying to add to the conversation they are missing their mark with a portion of the reading audience.

 

Other boards I post on definitely do quote as the norm or will give other context clues such as "I agree with Robin that the burden should not be on hybrid posters to accomodate people who choose linear mode." However, most of the boards I post on are more...contentious would be the best word. They seek to be understood the first time lest they create 25 pages of bickering over what they meant.

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Is it really that hard for y'all to leave a little bit of the post to which you are responding? It seems so selfish to say that it's up to those of us in linear mode to make sure we understand what you're saying. I think it's the responsibility of the person writing to make sure she is communicating clearly.

 

Okay, I'm posting with trepidation, too, lol...but did you see Robin's reply about it really not being that much more difficult for someone to open a thread in hybrid, *just in case* they need to seek clarification for context, than it is for someone to go to the trouble of fine-tuning cursor placement, and cutting out the majority of someone else's post just so someone in a different mode can understand it without having to look up at the top?

 

*As I said before*, lol, I'm not opposed to keeping that idea in my consciousness (including material from someone else's post)...but I can't see how, when different modes of viewing are offered, that one is under more resposibility to the group than another.

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*As I said before*, lol, I'm not opposed to keeping that idea in my consciousness (including material from someone else's post)...but I can't see how, when different modes of viewing are offered, that one is under more resposibility to the group than another.

 

But I have seen linear mode people agree to hit reply on the post they are actually replying to in order to make it easier for hybrid or threaded view people to follow the conversation. If I didn't care about my responsibility to the other group I could just use the BB code to quote you at the bottom of each page and everything I said would go under the original post. So, I disagree that one group is asking for more than the other.

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So if everyone just used the buttons to reply to the specific post(s) AND quoted the appropriate text, everyone would be happy, right? :D

 

I agree with others that the onus is on the writer to be clear. Otherwise, too much is left to interpretation.

 

(And, for the record, I replied to the original post and didn't quote anyone because so many people have said so many things, and I'm trying to leave a general comment.)

 

I'm glad this is in the How-To forum because I have a feeling many people will be referring to it in the future.

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The idea that "It seems so selfish to say that it's up to those of us in linear mode to make sure we understand what you're saying."

 

I realize not everyone is saying the same thing...I was more directly replying to Oak Knoll Mom's assertion.

 

But you know what? I've been second-guessing ever since posting, and I probably shouldn't have responded at all.

 

Sorry.

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Jill-I never intended to make you feel bad. I think dialogue is always a good thing. I agree that it's silly to claim one side or another is more benevolent and the other is more selfish. I've posted on many boards where linear is the general mode of choice. That is what I'm used to. I am aware that many WTM posters are just learning the vbulletin style of board. I think it's a positive thing to have a discussion about it and see where everyone is coming from. Then, we make informed choices in how we post.

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The idea that "It seems so selfish to say that it's up to those of us in linear mode to make sure we understand what you're saying."

 

I realize not everyone is saying the same thing...I was more directly replying to Oak Knoll Mom's assertion.

 

But you know what? I've been second-guessing ever since posting, and I probably shouldn't have responded at all.

 

Sorry.

 

I'm sorry I used the word selfish.

 

Here's my point in all this, (which I can now state a little more eloquently now that we've had this little discussion,):

 

It is good for *everyone* for *all of us* to use the quote button on the post that is being replied to. It keeps the flow of conversation going for those in hybrid mode and gives context to those of us in linear. We all can do a little give and take in order to accommodate all viewing modes.

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You didn't make me feel bad. *I* was worried that *I* sounded bad, lol. That's what I meant.

 

But thanks for the concern. You're a good egg, Mrs. Mungo. :)

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Jill-I never intended to make you feel bad. I think dialogue is always a good thing. I agree that it's silly to claim one side or another is more benevolent and the other is more selfish. I've posted on many boards where linear is the general mode of choice. That is what I'm used to. I am aware that many WTM posters are just learning the vbulletin style of board. I think it's a positive thing to have a discussion about it and see where everyone is coming from. Then, we make informed choices in how we post.

 

Well, it's a good thing I read in hybrid mode or I might not have understood what you were referring to there.

 

(snickering... ducking for cover...) :D

 

 

P>S> I agree.. the discussion has been good all the way 'round!

 

 

ETA: Dang! I just tried to rep you, Mrs. Mungo, but the system won't let me. You're a sweetie and I hope you know I was just trying to insert a little levity. :)

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Something bothered me about our last exchange, but I think I've figured it out.

 

 

 

Was this in response to:

 

 

 

I think it was, but I had to switch to threaded mode to figure it out.

 

I was talking about me... I don't view it as a "burden" for me to try to keep threads intact for the benefit of those who read in threaded mode.

 

Yes, I was trying to point out that regardless of how you post, the thread is intact. It might be hard to follow sometimes, but it's still intact :). But hey... even when I carefuly word things I am often misunderstood so perhaps my poor communication is as much about my shortcomings as it is about my not quoting! LOL

 

Thanks for this thread. I'm glad to know how this all looks to everyone else.

Robin

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Yes, I was trying to point out that regardless of how you post, the thread is intact. It might be hard to follow sometimes, but it's still intact :). But hey... even when I carefuly word things I am often misunderstood so perhaps my poor communication is as much about my shortcomings as it is about my not quoting! LOL
It's all to easy to be misunderstood in this medium. I've been guilty on both sides of it more times than I care to remember, usually with embarrassing results. :) I just wanted to clarify because it was not my intent to be judgmental of others.

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Well, it's a good thing I read in hybrid mode or I might not have understood what you were referring to there.

 

(snickering... ducking for cover...) :D

 

 

P>S> I agree.. the discussion has been good all the way 'round!

 

 

ETA: Dang! I just tried to rep you, Mrs. Mungo, but the system won't let me. You're a sweetie and I hope you know I was just trying to insert a little levity. :)

 

I'm pretty hard to offend. If it looks like it could be joking I assume it is joking. And thanks for the rep attempt! :D

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OK, surprised by what? I have no idea what is being referred to. I'm not trying to pick on this poster, as this type of post is common to these boards.

 

I am replying to Doran's post. I clicked on her post and then hit, "post reply". If you were viewing in hybrid mode it would show that my post was linked to her post and was in reply to it. As I said in my original post, I did not realize that everyone was not seeing the boards the same way, so I did not know that it was not immediately apparent what my post was in response to. I am assuming that other people have had the same problem. So people are not necessarily being discourteous but honestly did not know that it was a problem.

 

As Robin mentioned, it was equally perplexing to hybrid viewers why replies seemed to be randomly placed in regard to the posts they were in reply to. Now I understand how that happens and it makes so much more sense to me. I agree that it would be good if everyone was using the same guidelines for posting but I don't think that many people even realized this was an issue until this thread. Kudos to Colleen for bringing it up. Hopefully this thread was equally enlightening and helpful to all of us. :)

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I'm kinda curious why some of you read the board in linear mode.

 

Who knew this question would generate such a wealth of discussion?:) I hope the conversation was of value; at a minimum, we learned what we can do if we want our contributions to be understood in context. Example: Quoting, and/or referencing the person or conversation we're addressing, is most helpful.

 

I appreciate the explanations as to why some of you prefer to view in linear mode. Having viewed in that format over the past several days, though, I am even less inclined to do so regularly. From my perspective, there is absolutely no question that hybrid provides the greatest ease of use as well as the best means of following the flow of the conversation. I disagree that not quoting, or keeping a reply merely to the subject line, is on par with lack of courtesy. That argument just isn't working for me. Certainly, we can all do our best to make ourselves as clear as possible to as many people as possible. But to accuse people who choose a different means of replying than you deem best as lacking courtesy is taking it too far.

 

Thanks for playing, folks. Here's to good conversation, good comprehension, and the ability to extend grace to one another!:cheers2:

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This is what I'm finding. I like the 'Old' way. I'm not much for change even if it's for the better. I find it difficult to get used to the newness of stuff.

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