swimmermom3 Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Are library skills taught as part of the research process anymore? Do kids know what the Dewey Decimal System is? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 My son knows what it is, but not how to use it. Frankly, he's been "allergic" to books and reading and we have so many books that we haven't used the library much. Our previous one was dismal to say the least. Our new one is two blocks away and I was pleasantly surprised at their selection. I suppose we will take some time to learn it now since I believe we will utilize this library more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 The "card catalog" is a computer, but to find the books DS needs to go through looking at the shelf guide and spine labels, the old fashioned way. LOL I think he was probably 7 when I started teaching him how to do that -- part of it is the math (690.19 is before 690.2) and part of it is just practice -- knowing that the numbering starts at the top shelf and goes down that case and then back up to the next one, sometimes around a corner, etc. I think it was probably at least six months before he was reliable on his own. He doesn't know any numbers off the top of his head or anything - not like "oh, the 500s, that must be a science book" or that kind of thing - just how to find what he's looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamee Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Mine may not know what it's called, but they too know where to find the books they're looking for. I think they may have a few sections memorized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 My local librarians regularly offer hs research programming to introduce kids to a variety of library research skills and this includes use of the DDS. They have also told me that kids who come in asking for homework help usually want them to do everything for them. They don't have any interest in learning how to find things for themselves. I have a some books from RRC that are entitled Information, Please! One would be more than enough for anyone, actually. They consist of a series of treasure hunt type activities to work through research skills in the library. There's so much on a page, that you could actually break it down into two or three parts for completion. I can't imagine ever even completing one book, LOL! But they certainly are comprehensive.... http://rainbowresource.com/search.php?sid=1292556631-1552718 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Husband the librarian says that most academic libraries use library of congress. He says that some public libraries use dewey but he sounded like it is quaint. I should add that he is a librarian at a large research library so he might have an attitude, lol. Colleges generally have all students take a library class, sometimes within their major. Sister the librarian does one just for students in the health science field. In a couple years I will start having ds1 start finding his own books. Honestly, at this point, every college has so many online resources and different search engines and stuff like worldcat that I get tempted to just let him figure it out when he gets there. It's not like anything I can show him at the public library is going to do him any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Husband is asking me to tell you that the most important library skill is 'information literacy'. For example: how to tell if the results of your search are trustworthy primary source vs secondary what a peer reviewed resource looks like Is this an actual source or did someone pay google for the top spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Dd is skilled at interlibrary loan research; she's given up on the offerings of our local branch and does computer searches for books that get sent to us. She is also skilled at finding any book whatsoever in a bookstore, new or used. I'm more used to the Library of Congress system and can never remember the Dewey numbers or use that system properly any longer. My favorites, though, are the very old systems in British libraries, where books are catalogued by the name of the donor and some arcane symbols and codes indicating what shelf they were on in the original (usually aristocratic) donor's custom-built shelves. The huge collections I researched for my dissertation were mostly donated in the 17th and 18th centuries, so their code numbers refer to shelves they were arranged on by height: teeny duodecimo books at the top down to huge folios at the bottom. It made things a whole lot easier when the old catalogs were finally computerized (they still are coded in the old manner, but you don't have to read the crabbed old handwriting or look under pasted-on strips of paper), but there was a loss, too. Those catalogs were a living piece of history. Then there were the fascinating replies that came back when you asked for a particular book you'd used two weeks before: "Sorry, destroyed in World War II." What this really meant was, I don't want to walk all the way down the rows to that part of the storage system right now and I hope I can con you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Well, then you will enjoy this: The woman who ran the university library where my husband works got hired by Oxford to run a library there. She was asked to 'modernize' their library system. The first thing she suggested was to allow the patrons to..you know...take some of the (new) books HOME to use. It did not go over well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohdanigirl Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Mine may not know what it's called, but they too know where to find the books they're looking for. I think they may have a few sections memorized. This is us too. Even my 6 year old can track down a book. We are that family that shows up every week with a laundry basket to fill with books.:D Danielle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 Husband is asking me to tell you that the most important library skill is 'information literacy'. For example: how to tell if the results of your search are trustworthy primary source vs secondary what a peer reviewed resource looks like Is this an actual source or did someone pay google for the top spot? Please tell that smart dh of yours that this is the direction that I want to pursue. Ds is hot to work on his research skills and we recently started working with a resource entitled, Research 1: Information Literacy. The work we are doing in here prompted me to start this thread. It didn't take long for me to realize that we couldn't sit at home and simply search the Internet for our answers. Discernment is the key and we have to spend time in our library to develop it. I also realized that I need to update my research skills. I am embarrassed to admit that I didn't realize that there is the Library of Congress method of organization. I just discovered that we'll be covering that in two more lessons. Hmmm. Definitely learn something new every day on here.:D We often discuss skills versus content with regards to teaching middle school on this board. Right now, I am looking for content areas to cut to spend more time on this. A recent assignment was called "It's the Law-But Do You Know It?" You ask the student if they know how much a lawyer gets paid an hour and then point out that "knowing the law may save them money and trouble in the future."Ds quickly discovered that he didn't necessarily want to trust the Internet solely for answers to questions like: "I want to sell my car, which has many miles on it. What will happen if I subtract 20,000 miles from the odometer statement?" and "You access the school's computer and change the permanent records. Can you be prosecuted?" My local librarians regularly offer hs research programming to introduce kids to a variety of library research skills and this includes use of the DDS. They have also told me that kids who come in asking for homework help usually want them to do everything for them. They don't have any interest in learning how to find things for themselves. Regena, one of our librarians is so intrigued with what we are doing that we can count on her to have some interesting library fact or skill to share with us whenever we come in. She has been a librarian for 15 years and said that she gets frustrated with the fact that kids have so much information at their fingertips and yet they are often oblivious to it because of a lack of training. Dd is skilled at interlibrary loan research; she's given up on the offerings of our local branch and does computer searches for books that get sent to us. She is also skilled at finding any book whatsoever in a bookstore, new or used. I'm more used to the Library of Congress system and can never remember the Dewey numbers or use that system properly any longer. My favorites, though, are the very old systems in British libraries, where books are catalogued by the name of the donor and some arcane symbols and codes indicating what shelf they were on in the original (usually aristocratic) donor's custom-built shelves. The huge collections I researched for my dissertation were mostly donated in the 17th and 18th centuries, so their code numbers refer to shelves they were arranged on by height: teeny duodecimo books at the top down to huge folios at the bottom. It made things a whole lot easier when the old catalogs were finally computerized (they still are coded in the old manner, but you don't have to read the crabbed old handwriting or look under pasted-on strips of paper), but there was a loss, too. Those catalogs were a living piece of history. Then there were the fascinating replies that came back when you asked for a particular book you'd used two weeks before: "Sorry, destroyed in World War II." What this really meant was, I don't want to walk all the way down the rows to that part of the storage system right now and I hope I can con you. My kids are skilled at getting what they want through interlibrary loan too but their use of the library has been on a very superficial level compared to what we are doing now. Karen, thanks for sharing this info. I now have this rather romantic picture in my mind of the libraries you describe, but then my family could barely remove me from the Library of Congress when we were in D.C. Somehow I don't think I am meant for the totally electronic libraries. Thank you all for humoring me and responding to this thread. I get more done when I stay off the boards for a few days but I always end up with a legal pad full of questions. It seems like we don't talk enough about research skills for middle school. Or maybe it's just a burning topic for me right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 This is a topic I am very interested in right now. I know just enough, to know how little I know. Sigh! My current library uses the library of congress system. I miss the Dewey :-( I need to stop reading books about research and just looking on my own, and actually talk to a librarian. My newest book Ready! Set! Research! says librarians find this phrase irresistible, "can you help me please?" and is why they became librarians. I resist asking for help, and it really is necessary, because each library is very different. Yes there are basic skills to learn, but one skill is to learn how to use the LIBRARIAN. I feel like I need a set of worksheets entitled "How to talk to librarians" :-) or maybe even a whole book devoted to the topic :-) I recently tried e-mailing my library about whether we have free online access to Worldbook encyclopedia, and got all sorts of computer generated confirmations that they got my question, but never an answer. Sigh! Why do I resist picking up the phone or talking to them face to face? I actually thought of paying for a subscription to the Worldbook site, just to avoid asking for the link. I really want to MASTER being able to write a basic 5 paragraph research essay, using a wide variety of interesting resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I feel like I need a set of worksheets entitled "How to talk to librarians" :-) or maybe even a whole book devoted to the topic :-) I recently tried e-mailing my library about whether we have free online access to Worldbook encyclopedia, and got all sorts of computer generated confirmations that they got my question, but never an answer. Sigh! Why do I resist picking up the phone or talking to them face to face? I actually thought of paying for a subscription to the Worldbook site, just to avoid asking for the link. At my new library you can only renew items in person or over the phone. My initial thought was :001_huh: you mean I have to actually TALK to a person! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 My librarians are my friends now. I've been going there for so many years. They say that my kids are the only ones ever in the non-fiction section. When our library bond passed and they discontinued a 25cent fee per interlibrary loan, they couldn't wait to tell me. I walked in and I head "Mrs. X Mrs. X. WE have great news! You no longer have to pay money for interlibrary loan!" Just a week ago, the librarian saw me enter the library and she automatically reached for the interlibrary loan shelf and then realized, that I didn't have any interlibrary loans in! :lol: Swimmermom- what grades is the Research 1 book useful for? It says grades 9-10 but could it be used younger for bright students? Hunter - Many libraries get scored based on how many questions they answer. By asking for help, you are keeping your library open! You can do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Husband the librarian says that most academic libraries use library of congress. He says that some public libraries use dewey but he sounded like it is quaint. I should add that he is a librarian at a large research library so he might have an attitude, lol. This is why I'm not too worried about his having gotten any further in Dewey than how the numbers work and how the shelves are arranged. The system itself isn't so broadly applicable, but how to use one is. Husband is asking me to tell you that the most important library skill is 'information literacy'. For example: how to tell if the results of your search are trustworthy primary source vs secondary what a peer reviewed resource looks like Is this an actual source or did someone pay google for the top spot? THIS is what we've spent our time on! DS has been slightly spoiled because I still have student access to my university library online, so he can use their indices for scholarly works rather than popular press (check box: journals only) but just this year we've started on some of the more subtle uses... starting with one major resource and working in both directions -- citation indicies to see who has used his work and searching back through references to see where it came from. He found that as he worked up through the citation index, he often ended up working back through the references of the newer articles, and then forwards from some other older works.... it got to be quite a zigzag through time, but also just fascinating for showing you just how far one really good work can "reach" and how you eventually find the same names popping up over and over. Most of his research is science-oriented, but last year he did a history project too -- what you can learn from public records, where else to look (memoirs, church records, etc.) and what to do with conflicting information. And our mantra - "Wiki is only as good as 'my mom says...'" Either of those is fine for orienting yourself before starting a real search, but a real reference has an author you can cite, and that author has a background you can evaluate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I just called the library :-) World Book Encyclopedia subscriptions were cancelled due to budget cuts :-( At least I know now though :-0 and I took the first step in starting to TALK to the library :-) A few too emoticons...but I'm feeling emotional :-0 Ugh! Why cant we just do this totally with books and online? Its so much less emotional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Ds is hot to work on his research skills and we recently started working with a resource entitled, Research 1: Information Literacy. :drool5: Wow - this looks phenomenal! It's going on my wish list. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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