Raymond Moore, Better Late than Early Followers?

[danivdp]

Anybody? I'd love to do this for my boys, they seem so happy playing (getting into trouble, LOL) in the backyard all the time. DS7 can read, DS8 cannot. I'm not too worried, but everyone in my life thinks I'm screwing them up. Especially DH. He'd love to see them sitting at the dining room table for 8 hours a day working on workbooks. I want to teach them when they are ready to learn, or at least mature enough to realize that is their duty in life. Lizards are just so much more fun right now :tongue_smilie:

[mo2]

Anybody? I'd love to do this for my boys, they seem so happy playing (getting into trouble, LOL) in the backyard all the time. DS7 can read, DS8 cannot. I'm not too worried, but everyone in my life thinks I'm screwing them up. Especially DH. He'd love to see them sitting at the dining room table for 8 hours a day working on workbooks. I want to teach them when they are ready to learn, or at least mature enough to realize that is their duty in life. Lizards are just so much more fun right now :tongue_smilie:

 

 

:bigear: Just wanted to point out that a LOT of learning could be going on in the backyard! I bet your kids could teach me a few things about lizards that I don't know.

 

(And my 8yo can't read well...but it's not because I haven't tried, so I can't help you there.)

[Ann.without.an.e]

I haven't read that resource, but I think if I had it to do over again (oh, wait a minute...I have an 18 month old, I do have it to over again :D)...

I would...

Focus on Reading, Phonics, Math, and Handwriting until at least 4th (maybe 5th) grade. I would read, read, read, read to them, but not stress about a specific history/science curriculum. I would let any study in those areas be child-led then. You can do those things in a relatively short time period, then you know that they will go into middle school strong in the basics, the necessities. Middle School Science and History are typically written as an introduction, with no pre-requisites for understanding.

 

Just my two cents and rambling thoughts.

[8filltheheart]

I am not as extreme as the Moores. I do have my younger kids doing some academics (nothing before K though). The amt of seatwork I expect is minimal, yet I do see it as better earlier than later (reading, basic handwriting, and math.) But other than 30-60 mins/day for K, an hr for 1st, and 1 1/2-2 hrs for 2nd......freedom to roam, explore, imagine, and play is the course of their days.

 

My kids' academic work increases dramatically between 3rd-4th grade (depends on their abilities)

[Ellie]

It worked for me. And both my dds were taking classes at the community college when they were 14. :)

[sbgrace]

I waited for formal academics until six. I started feeling a lot of pressure and decided to bump up and start at six.

 

I do want to emphasize that lots of (I think superior) learning and brain development happens through play, read alouds, exploring outside, and etc. So it's delayed academics. And of course those who do a little academics at 5 are also doing all that great stuff as well. So for most kids it won't matter. But for a some, especially boys, the early can be a negative in terms of attitudes towards themselves and learning. I think this is more a risk for those in school situations than home though as, for those kids, most parents are going to respond to that type of kid by backing off I'd think!

 

I'm glad I delayed for us but every child is different. I wish I had delayed a bit longer actually for one child. He could have benefited from a little more wait time. He'll be seven in Feb. and I've noticed a big jump in every area (especially his interest in things like sitting and writing) in the last month. I'm glad I started phonics when I did as there were some issues there with this child that I'm glad we addressed early but I wish I would have waited on the handwriting and math areas particularly. I knew he was optimal for more delay but I was trying to balance the two boys.

 

And...so...I'm going to say that I see that every child is very different. I think his twin would have loved to start earlier. That said, it didn't hurt him to start later and wouldn't have hurt him to wait even longer had we done that. Kids end up in the same place as, it seems, when you wait everything is quicker and easier. This is, of course, if there is no underlying issue. I think it's good to identify and address those early when possible.

Edited December 16, 2010 by sbgrace

[Celia]

Hmmm. I'm not a follower, although I do believe that some kids, especially boys, really aren't ready for seatwork and it shouldn't be forced on them for great lengths of time. If a child isn't developmentally ready to learn something, and are pressured to learn it, I think that's worse than waiting until late. That's not to say that I don't think some structured learning is appropriate at a young age. I think avoiding it can be detrimental. For example, your child may have a learning disorder that needs addressing that you wouldn't catch otherwise.

 

I suppose I'm much more of a fan of better late than early if it's applied within the public school system. I believe one of the examples used in the book is the school system in Finland, not starting formal education until children are 7 or so. I think that really does make sense. A couple extra years at their mother's knee is more valuable than being in school, and some kids need some extra time to be ready to learn reading. The ones who were ready earlier may have learned at home, or they'll just pick it up more quickly.

 

In a homeschooling atmosphere, I do think that the younger years are well spent doing mostly 'unschooling', with the parents taking an active role in helping their child persue their interests and steering them in the right direction. Playing in the backyard is educational. There are plenty of kids toys that have great learning value. But when children are able to learn things, like reading, writing, and math, I see no harm in taking the time to teach them. It can be done in a fun way, but even if it's not, I take no issue with that either. At 7 and 8 they're not too young to do some work that they don't enjoy.

 

Also, if your husband is not comfortable with better late than early, you need to sit down and discuss until you're both happy with where your kids are at. Your kids might be having a blast playing and not 'doing school', but that doesn't mean that they're not ready for formal schooling. They might even enjoy it!

 

When we're not accomplishing as much as I'd hoped, I do take condolences from Better Late than Early. My eldest is only 6, and on a day that it's beautiful outside and he's having a good old time catching bugs and climbing trees, I let him just keep on playing. Or if he's having a great time with his Lego's or engrossed in imaginative play, I generally don't inturrupt because there is so much value in those things. I see it often as more important at this stage than him sitting down and getting his bookwork done. But I still do require that what I consider the basics are met before he does something like video games. And seeing as he likes games, his less-loved subjects always manage to get done. He's still a little guy in my opinion, and I don't make him do more than an hour max per day of seatwork. This hasn't hurt him at all, and I know he's quite proud of his accomplishments. I mix in things like skip counting while he's jumping on the trampoline. We do memory work driving in the car (I tape up the verses and poems that we're memorizing on the dashboard). I've decided to wait on subjects other than the 3 R's until some undetermined later date. Probably 3rd grade before we use any actual curriculum for history and science, although maybe mid-second if he seems ready for more.

 

Just my take. I hope you and your hubby get this settled to where you're both comfortable!

Edited December 15, 2010 by Celia

[danivdp]

Thanks for the encouragement :)

 

I really hate the struggle of "learn this" and the repetition of him not being able to learn it. I explain and explain until I'm blue in the face, and I just don't think he's ready. I'm only doing Math and Reading/Phonics at this point. I think they know more science from being outside and watching Planet Earth than I did from school at that age, LOL.

 

Thanks again, Hive!!

[NanceXToo]

I don't know if I'd call myself a "follower" per se- but I've read the book and think there's a lot to be said for it.

 

My 10 y/o started out in public school, before I ever in a million years ever even thought about homeschooling.

 

My son just turned 5 last month, and I tried starting K with him this year (ONLY because it was a VERY gentle, non-academic K program, sort of Waldorf-inspired, very hands on and artsy and so on and I thought he'd enjoy it).

 

As it turned out, about 8 weeks in, I realized he wasn't really so into it and I decided to stop.

 

So we're doing another informal year of pre-K- nothing structured, really, no worksheets, just a lot of play and helping Mommy and conversation and games and so on and so forth.

 

In the fall, I'll give it another try with the K program. He'll be almost 6. It will be the same K I tried this year- gentle, non-academic.

 

So I'm sort of following it, I guess? Taking his cues, not pushing academics in the earliest years, and so on. I'm not going to stress over it if he's not reading at 5 or 6 or 7, he'll read when he's ready. My goal is for him to end up liking reading...not to read by X age because he has to.

 

Have you asked your husband to read the book? Maybe it would help ease his mind some? That one, or "School Can Wait."

 

If he doesn't want to read a book, here are some links to online articles he might be willing to take a look at instead:

 

http://www.homeschool.com/articles/bookexcerpt/default.asp

 

http://school.familyeducation.com/home-schooling/reading/38692.html

 

http://www.besthomeschooling.org/articles/annette_mackay.html

 

http://homeedmag.com/HEM/186/ndaskcarol.html

[sibbis]

It's hard to follow "Better Late than Early" sometimes because there is so much pressure (even in the home education community) for kids to be doing more, earlier. I pushed with my daughter and regret it. I let my son meander and we are both enjoying his schooling so much more. I waited on reading until he was truly interested and had a good base in phonics and our struggles (so far) have been minimal. Let them play - I don't think you'll regret it. And they won't either.

[AppleGreen]

Yes and no. I think I could have relaxed more w/ my oldest. We did library trips regularly, tons of read alouds and other fun stuff, but I also pushed some things more than needed. We had our share of tears and both probably would've been happier if I backed off. I remember reading TWTM when he was 2 and being mortified at the level of academics for K & 1st grade, we were no where near that level.

 

My #2 has a fall birthday and just squeaks under the old PS birthday cut-off, but we didn't "do" K until last year and kept it very light. She has been fine, but her personality is totally different from her older sibling. She has a strong desire to please and work independently, much more than the 4th grader!

 

My #3 did not get the memo on starting later rather early and asks every day for school. So, we do some very light, fun 1-on-1 stuff and she has her workboxes because that is who she is. She spends a lot of time playing, as well and I don't power struggle with her over her work. If she doesn't want to do something I leave it in there for another day.

 

I try to put out Montessori inspired activities for all to engage in during our school time (picking corn kernals off the cob w/ tweezers was a huge hit this fall!). We do not have many outside commitments, so my kids have a lot of time at home to be and play and discover. I think really the key is balance and knowing *your* kids. Each of them is unique and their needs differ. It has been a huge challenge for me to know when it is just enough or when they need more and then to meet all of their needs in the midst of a busy house!

[cherylw]

I have mixed feelings about this topic. I want to agree with it but at the same time I feel the pressure too. I've told everyone I pulled them out because ds8 was behind in reading and I thought I could catch him up. So I feel that if I don't then those will think I have failed. But at the same time if I push too hard (which I have done) it doesn't do anything but make me mad and him upset. So lately I've been more relaxed with ds8. I can slowly see the desire coming and hopefully some good effort will follow.

 

This also goes along with the fairly new Pre-K program in the public schools that I feel like it's a free babysitting service. I substituted in one last year and I felt so sorry for those kids. One of the aids got in trouble for letting one the kids (a 4 yr old) sit in her lap! What!! So these babies have to go all day without any affection/nuture. And they never went outside. I DID NOT want to go back after that.

 

Does this go against WTM? I believe they want to begin teaching reading at around 4, but if there're not ready then wait a while. I do believe some kids are really ready to learn academics at a young age. Although, I wouldn't know what that's like!:glare:

[lovinmomma]

It's hard to follow "Better Late than Early" sometimes because there is so much pressure (even in the home education community) for kids to be doing more, earlier. I pushed with my daughter and regret it. I let my son meander and we are both enjoying his schooling so much more. I waited on reading until he was truly interested and had a good base in phonics and our struggles (so far) have been minimal. Let them play - I don't think you'll regret it. And they won't either.

 

Good post!

[Susan in KY]

This article may be of interest to you. I don't think there's anything wrong about delaying formal academics perse, however there are a lot of things you must be doing to establish a hunger for books and learning if you are going to go that route, and you *must* deal with character issues like laziness and perseverance right *now*. My opinion, anyway.... Establishing a work ethic is the best thing you can do for your child at a young age.

 

I also would make SURE there are no other reasons for the reading delay. That issue would be top on my charts to address for a lot of reasons, but the bottom line is that if a child can read, if he loves to learn, and if he has a good work ethic, he will do fine in most any situation in life.

[wapiti]

I really hate the struggle of "learn this" and the repetition of him not being able to learn it. I explain and explain until I'm blue in the face, and I just don't think he's ready. I'm only doing Math and Reading/Phonics at this point.

What if the issue isn't that he isn't ready, but that something is hampering his learning? IMO, at 8 y.o., with this description, I think it would be wise to consider the possibility that there could be an LD present (e.g., dyslexia, vision, etc.).

 

In addition, I would consider whether the particular curriculum may be a bad fit.

[FO4UR]

I've read it.

 

I fall more in line with Charlotte Mason. Basically, children need to be fed "brain food," but it shouldn't be drudgery. Young children (6yo and up) should have short lessons. (15 min)

 

I'm glad I didn't wait to teach reading with my oldest. He has some learning issues that are dealt with better early than late. He still gets hours and hours everyday for chazing lizards...or snowflakes around here...and I agree that those hours are his "real" education.

[jld]

If you're a strong, independent mother who cares more about her children's welfare than the opinions of others, then BLTE should work just fine for you.;)

[lovinmomma]

I've read a 2 or 3 of the Moore's books and I've taken some really good things away from it. I don't feel as much pressure now. However, I think it's more about individualizing each child's education to themselves. Every child is different. My ds will probably need to wait on most written work until 7 or 8, but I hope to have him reading before 8.

[Anne]

What if the issue isn't that he isn't ready, but that something is hampering his learning? IMO, at 8 y.o., with this description, I think it would be wise to consider the possibility that there could be an LD present (e.g., dyslexia, vision, etc.).

 

In addition, I would consider whether the particular curriculum may be a bad fit.

 

This.

 

 

Anne

[Dawn E]

As is often said, one of the great benefits of homeschooling is being able to meet your child where he/she is. I don't think this philosophy (as with any) is perfect for every child, but it will be right for some...you are in the position of being able to know your child and what approach would fit.

 

I would encourage, though, as a previous poster did that you and your dh sit down and really discuss what you both want/expect from homeschooling. Has he read the Moore book? It is going to be important, at least in my mind, that you both fashion a plan you're comfortable moving forward in.

[danivdp]

No, DH and I aren't on the same homeschooling page. However, since he's not willing to help me achieve the goals HE wants to see, I just do it my way :P

 

How would one go about getting a kid tested for disabilities? Do I have to talk to the school district? *shudder*

 

My non-reader has a *fabulous* work ethic. I require a lot chore & discipline -wise from my kids. He's just a bit behind the others in how quickly he understands things. I'm not too worried about it, but I think DH compares him to his siblings too much. He's not them, YK?