"He needs to learn to do things because he has to not because he gets a reward".(FASD

[mykdsmomy]

We use a public charter school as an umbrella for ds6. He has an RSP teacher come in 2x a week. I really love her and she's been able to get him to work by rewarding him with "prizes" when he does his work and stays on task.

When she first started coming (prior to the prizes), he would NOT stay on task. He would walk away and refuse to work or start flipping out when he even heard her car pull up.

Ok so fast forward to this last Sat. His OT showed up (he has two. I like them both but this particular OT is not as "patient" with ds). She walks in and right away starts expecting ds to just sit down and start working. Well, he doesn't want to do what she has planned (writing letters) so she starts telling him sort of sternly that he needs to sit down and do his work. He then starts to shut down and I can tell where this is all headed. I step in and give him two choices of what he can do "letters in the workbook or letters on paper". Then he says "can I go get my new stamps" and she says "No!". He starts melting again. Finally I get him to calm down by offering him some of his markers and making him a snack to eat while he does his work. He says "if I do my work can I get a prize?" I tell him yes but only if he finishes his work. So then I can tell that the OT thinks I'm the biggest permissive/mushy parent EVER.

It was like pulling teeth to get him to finish and at one point, she tells him "If you don't finish this, you won't get your prize" but the tone she used was what he would consider "hostile".

I finally told him after he finished his letters that he could be done (she had 15 minutes left in the session but honestly he was done). After he left the room, she says, "don't you think he should learn that he just HAS to do these things without rewards all the time?...eventually he will need to live by society's rules and not be rewarded for good behavior".

Ok, I totally get what she's saying because honestly, I think the same things sometimes. However, I tried to explain to her that we have three other children that we have used traditional parenting methods with and they have worked! Our ds is DIFFERENT. It's a miracle if I can get him to sit for 5 minutes at a non preferred task. He has huge amounts of anxiety that come across as defiance when he's stressed. I tried to explain that with FASD, traditional behavioral mod doesn't always work. It's not a matter of "you have to do this or else this is the consequence". Ds doesn't "get" that. We walk on eggshells a lot of the time. We pick and choose our battles. We take it one day at a time. Yes, it looks like he gets a LOT of rewards and he gets WAY more grace than the other children but so far this is the only thing that sort of kind of works for him. I've tried digging my heels in on most matters and found that it just made things worse. I save my heel digging for important issues that involve safety.

I guess this is mostly a vent but I'm also wondering if any of you feel like to outsiders you are "permissive" with your SN child? (particularly those with FASD or ASD)

[asta]

I hate to say it, but she is right.

 

One of the things I argue about with the moms of other aspies is accommodations. I won't always be here for kid. He has to operate in the world. The world doesn't give accommodations, it doesn't give prizes. The learning curve is hard, and it is often painful to listen to. But if kid is capable of doing something with prizes, he is capable of doing it without prizes.

 

I hate to say it, but you're being played, mom. (as my DH would say)

 

 

a

 

 

ETA: If he wasn't capable of doing it with prizes, my response would be different.

Edited December 13, 2010 by asta

[lmrich]

What are the prizes? There are times when a prize works wonders for all involved, but keep the prizes to priveleges not stuff or food.

 

15 minutes on a video game

use the pretty wine glasses for dinner

the cat gets to sleep in your room

you get to wear my fluffy slippers

play a game with a parent

make something together

extra playtime (move bedtime up permentantly to accommodate for this)

select the music for the car ride

extra story at bedtime

use of a smencil for the day

wear dad's baseball cap

 

You get the idea - make a list that would inspire your son. Be sure to reward the others too. Please refrain from food prizes the long term damage won't be worth the short term goals.

[Ottakee]

Has he had any formal evals for things like ADHD and/or mood disorders? I ask as very often kids with FAS have bio parents that were self medicating a mental health issues---which is genetic and can be passed down to the child.

 

The walking on eggshells thing is SOOOOOO familiar here. For us, the underlying issue was bipolar but it could be a host of other things as well.

[MamaSheep]

Our parenting with ds does look different than our parenting of our dd. And honestly it's rather different from the more standard parenting we intended to use, and initially tried to use. But it WORKS, which is the key as far as we're concerned.

 

I wonder how long the OT would keep going to work if she were not rewarded with a paycheck periodically. And I bet she appreciates nice rewards like an occasional thank you, or even just seeing progress in a student. We all work for rewards of one kind or another. We don't brush our teeth because it's "expected" or because our moms said we had to when we were six, we brush them because we want healthy teeth. We write our letters because we want to communicate. The reward is clear communication. There's always a purpose, and fulfilling that purpose is "rewarding".

 

It is certainly EASIER for PARENTS when our kids do stuff just because we told them they have to. But for me, easy parenting is not the goal. The goal is independence for my child. For my dd, it is "rewarding" to please her parents, so she is happy to do a lot of things just because I told her she has to. Especially if I show her that I am pleased with her after she does whatever it is. Ds is not motivated by that. He's just not. (Although he is starting to be at least a little bit, which just tickles me to no end.) If he is not motivated by intrinsic enjoyment of the task, or by pleasing an authority figure, then I have to find some other motivation. I could use threats and punishment, but with this child that does not compute. Honestly. He does not make the connection between an action and a punishment. I know that sounds weird considering he can explain the theory of relativity relatively well, but that's the way it is. Natural consequences do work to a large extent, but anything beyond an actual, traceable consequence that clearly stems from his action does not compute. For example, he would understand having to clean up a spill as a consequence of having been the one to make the mess. He would not understand losing computer privileges as a consequence of spilling it on purpose. Rewards, on the other hand, actually work. The NATURE of the rewards has shifted over time, but they are what works best to motivate him. When he was younger he did not CARE if he grew up to be independent or not. That was just not part of his mental processes. He spent rather a lot of time in fight or flight mode and saw a lot of things as threatening in one way or another. Rewards had to appeal at a pretty basic level to "register". Something related to his special Aspie interests worked best. Sometimes we had to get creative. But after trying any number of parenting techniques it became very clear to us that IF we wanted his cooperation in ANY DEGREE, then we had to use rewards to get it. It was the only channel where the messages got all the way through to him.

 

Yes, eventually I want him to do things for more mature reasons. I want him to see being independent as "rewarding", in and of itself. I want him to see getting along with other people as "rewarding". I want him to find learning to be "rewarding" for its own sake. And he has made remarkable progress in that direction. He now does his math, for example, because he sees value in being able to calculate things in his life and doesn't "like" being stuck when faced with a problem. But in order to get to that point, we had to start by giving him one chocolate chip (or other small treat) per problem, because that was the ONLY way to get him to do it. In order to get him to do a thing for the "right" reasons, we find it works best to first get him to DO the thing. Then work on the reasons. The ability to do a thing, and the motivation for doing it are two different skills, and sometimes need to be worked on separately.

 

I know other kids are different and don't work that way, but I'm totally with you. If rewards are what works, use them. Then wean off them. It has worked wonders at our house.

 

(I should add that this is all within a fairly structured environment, but I'm out of time so...sorry...)

[Guest]

I'm totally with you, too. I've always thought that just because such-and-such necessarily affects the way adults do things, that does NOT mean a six-year-old has to start doing it that way or he'll never succeed in the adult world. This kind of logic leads to things like kids "practicing" standardized testing in kindergarten, when many of them can't read, or visually align numbers in an answer column with the bubbles.

 

I also figure that if the point is for a child to actually learn something, what on earth is the problem with working with his preferences for markers or stamps instead of pencils, or manipulatives before abstract worksheets, or any other one of the bizarrely inflexible demands some professionals make that little kids conform and do things their way? If we say, "I need to have a cup of coffee before I can tackle that item on my list," would any sane person think to tell us we have to learn to do what jobs we're given without any of that pandering to our desires first?

 

And you know what? We're the ones who live with these kids 24 hours a day, who deal with the meltdowns caused by someone else's rigidity or unthinking approach, who know the individual signs of coming disengagement before someone who sees the kid half an hour twice a week does.

 

It's really difficult to know that someone else is thinking you're a pushover or a parent who doesn't know how to be firm. But you KNOW that's not the case. Others in your situation know it too. If you can, I'd sit down with the OT and have a long talk about keeping the teaching methods consistent with what has been working for your child rather than imposing different conditions. Have it written into his IEP at the next meeting, too. Then you can simply pull out the IEP and show whoever else comes into the picture that this is the agreed upon procedure.

[Momto5]

Judy, you rock! You know your kid and you know your facts about FASD. I think you are doing an awesome job. Listening to you talk about your child, what motivates him, and how HE hears things speak very clearly to how much you love your child, how much time you have spent getting to know him, and how you work to understand the world through his eyes. You are doing a great job and he is benefitting from all your hard work.

 

I too am parenting a child with FASD and understand the unique issues an FASD individual faces. We do have to parent them differently - they are different - they have sustained a brain injury. I also understand the struggle to parent one child one way and other children another way. I wish I had an answer that would make you (and me) not worry about it. But I think the fact that you are aware of it and constantly evaluating it is a good sign.

 

Finally, I agree whole heartedly with your comments about picking your battles. A very wise mom who is also parenting several FASD kids told me that when she is making parenting decisions she first focuses on how her actions will affect her relationship with her child. She found that correcting every behavior and turning everything into a contest of wills was damaging her relationship with her child. She found that once she began working as the child's advocate their relationship improved and so did the child's behavior. For example, when a child begins to feel agitated or not want to engage in an activity, instead of threatening, she says to the child, "Talk to me about what is wrong. I see that you don't want to X. What can I do to help you?" Sometimes it is so easy - the child might say "I don't like the way those pencils smell, or I don't like the way that chair makes me leave forward." She found that many times it wasn't really the task that the child was opposed to but something else entirely - something that was quite easy to fix.

 

This simple change in tactics has saved my relationship with my daughter. It's not perfect. Every day still presents challenges. But I truly believe my daughter knows I am on her side and want her to succeed. I am now a source of comfort - not a source of agitation.

 

I hope this helps. I didn't really mean to write so much.

[mykdsmomy]

Thank you to everyone who responded. I truly appreciate all of your input!

 

 

Has he had any formal evals for things like ADHD and/or mood disorders? I ask as very often kids with FAS have bio parents that were self medicating a mental health issues---which is genetic and can be passed down to the child.

 

The walking on eggshells thing is SOOOOOO familiar here. For us, the underlying issue was bipolar but it could be a host of other things as well.

 

We (and his dev ped) are pretty certain there is a mood disorder there as well as the ADHD (although the ADHD behavior goes hand in hand with FASD and as you know, it's difficult to know what is coming from where). He just started Abilify and Buspar this past week. The Lamictal caused him too much tummy pain :( He is still on Clonidine for night time (sleeping). He has tried so many meds and nothing yet has seemed to really "work". I'm hopeful this new combo will help even things out. (although I realize it's not going to "fix" everything)

 

 

It is certainly EASIER for PARENTS when our kids do stuff just because we told them they have to. But for me, easy parenting is not the goal. The goal is independence for my child. For my dd, it is "rewarding" to please her parents, so she is happy to do a lot of things just because I told her she has to. Especially if I show her that I am pleased with her after she does whatever it is. Ds is not motivated by that. He's just not. (Although he is starting to be at least a little bit, which just tickles me to no end.) If he is not motivated by intrinsic enjoyment of the task, or by pleasing an authority figure, then I have to find some other motivation. I could use threats and punishment, but with this child that does not compute. Honestly. He does not make the connection between an action and a punishment. I know that sounds weird considering he can explain the theory of relativity relatively well, but that's the way it is. Natural consequences do work to a large extent, but anything beyond an actual, traceable consequence that clearly stems from his action does not compute. For example, he would understand having to clean up a spill as a consequence of having been the one to make the mess. He would not understand losing computer privileges as a consequence of spilling it on purpose. Rewards, on the other hand, actually work. The NATURE of the rewards has shifted over time, but they are what works best to motivate him. When he was younger he did not CARE if he grew up to be independent or not. That was just not part of his mental processes. He spent rather a lot of time in fight or flight mode and saw a lot of things as threatening in one way or another. Rewards had to appeal at a pretty basic level to "register". Something related to his special Aspie interests worked best. Sometimes we had to get creative. But after trying any number of parenting techniques it became very clear to us that IF we wanted his cooperation in ANY DEGREE, then we had to use rewards to get it. It was the only channel where the messages got all the way through to him.

 

Yes, eventually I want him to do things for more mature reasons. I want him to see being independent as "rewarding", in and of itself. I want him to see getting along with other people as "rewarding". I want him to find learning to be "rewarding" for its own sake. And he has made remarkable progress in that direction. He now does his math, for example, because he sees value in being able to calculate things in his life and doesn't "like" being stuck when faced with a problem. But in order to get to that point, we had to start by giving him one chocolate chip (or other small treat) per problem, because that was the ONLY way to get him to do it. In order to get him to do a thing for the "right" reasons, we find it works best to first get him to DO the thing. Then work on the reasons. The ability to do a thing, and the motivation for doing it are two different skills, and sometimes need to be worked on separately.

 

I know other kids are different and don't work that way, but I'm totally with you. If rewards are what works, use them. Then wean off them. It has worked wonders at our house.

 

(I should add that this is all within a fairly structured environment, but I'm out of time so...sorry...)

 

Yes!!!! Ds rarely gets the connection between his action and the consequence. (even natural consequences are lost on him at times). Negative consequences are like putting lighter fluid on a forest fire :( Thank you for understanding :)

 

I'm totally with you, too. I've always thought that just because such-and-such necessarily affects the way adults do things, that does NOT mean a six-year-old has to start doing it that way or he'll never succeed in the adult world. This kind of logic leads to things like kids "practicing" standardized testing in kindergarten, when many of them can't read, or visually align numbers in an answer column with the bubbles.

 

I also figure that if the point is for a child to actually learn something, what on earth is the problem with working with his preferences for markers or stamps instead of pencils, or manipulatives before abstract worksheets, or any other one of the bizarrely inflexible demands some professionals make that little kids conform and do things their way? If we say, "I need to have a cup of coffee before I can tackle that item on my list," would any sane person think to tell us we have to learn to do what jobs we're given without any of that pandering to our desires first?

 

And you know what? We're the ones who live with these kids 24 hours a day, who deal with the meltdowns caused by someone else's rigidity or unthinking approach, who know the individual signs of coming disengagement before someone who sees the kid half an hour twice a week does.

 

It's really difficult to know that someone else is thinking you're a pushover or a parent who doesn't know how to be firm. But you KNOW that's not the case. Others in your situation know it too. If you can, I'd sit down with the OT and have a long talk about keeping the teaching methods consistent with what has been working for your child rather than imposing different conditions. Have it written into his IEP at the next meeting, too. Then you can simply pull out the IEP and show whoever else comes into the picture that this is the agreed upon procedure.

 

Thank you!!! I definitely think we need to make an amendment to the IEP about the positive rewards approach. I know the RSP teacher will back me up because she is seeing the results and is pleased.

 

Judy, you rock! You know your kid and you know your facts about FASD. I think you are doing an awesome job. Listening to you talk about your child, what motivates him, and how HE hears things speak very clearly to how much you love your child, how much time you have spent getting to know him, and how you work to understand the world through his eyes. You are doing a great job and he is benefitting from all your hard work.

 

I too am parenting a child with FASD and understand the unique issues an FASD individual faces. We do have to parent them differently - they are different - they have sustained a brain injury. I also understand the struggle to parent one child one way and other children another way. I wish I had an answer that would make you (and me) not worry about it. But I think the fact that you are aware of it and constantly evaluating it is a good sign.

 

Finally, I agree whole heartedly with your comments about picking your battles. A very wise mom who is also parenting several FASD kids told me that when she is making parenting decisions she first focuses on how her actions will affect her relationship with her child. She found that correcting every behavior and turning everything into a contest of wills was damaging her relationship with her child. She found that once she began working as the child's advocate their relationship improved and so did the child's behavior. For example, when a child begins to feel agitated or not want to engage in an activity, instead of threatening, she says to the child, "Talk to me about what is wrong. I see that you don't want to X. What can I do to help you?" Sometimes it is so easy - the child might say "I don't like the way those pencils smell, or I don't like the way that chair makes me leave forward." She found that many times it wasn't really the task that the child was opposed to but something else entirely - something that was quite easy to fix.

 

This simple change in tactics has saved my relationship with my daughter. It's not perfect. Every day still presents challenges. But I truly believe my daughter knows I am on her side and want her to succeed. I am now a source of comfort - not a source of agitation.

 

I hope this helps. I didn't really mean to write so much.

 

Your post brought me to tears :blushing: Thank you for the kind words!!! Every day I try my hardest to work on our relationship. I tried explaining to all of the providers that I've been building trust with ds6 since he was 8 days old and he STILL has a hard time trusting me. They can't expect to just walk in and have him cooperate 100%. The school was hesitant to enroll ds when they read all of his reports and evaluations. They kept telling me they thought he would do better in a brick and mortar school :001_rolleyes: BTDT which is why we're homeschooling. I know what he needs because we've tried other avenues and they didn't work. He is progressing at home and while it may not be as fast as the school would like, it IS happening. So thank you so much for your encouraging words. I really really really needed to hear them :)

[MamaSheep]

Yes!!!! Ds rarely gets the connection between his action and the consequence. (even natural consequences are lost on him at times). Negative consequences are like putting lighter fluid on a forest fire :( Thank you for understanding

 

Yes. Lighter fluid. Forest fire. Totally get that. And yes, I've been criticized for pouring water on instead. But not only can you not fight all the battles at once, sometimes "battle" is really, truly not the best approach. Sometimes you need to teach the child to not fight about everything by NOT FIGHTING ABOUT EVERYTHING. (Novel, I know.) Sometimes you need to be the one to let go of the rope and walk away so the tug-of-war can end. And so he can see how to let go and experience the positive effects from that. I can't tell you how many people have advised me that the only way to teach ds not to be rigid was by rigidly enforcing my boundaries with him. Well, if he's being rigid about "his boundaries", and I'm being rigid about mine, then believe me, nobody is going to "win" this thing. I do agree that clear boundaries are useful. They help him feel safe. But he also needs to experience flexible boundaries in order to learn to be flexible with his own boundaries. He needs to know what that looks like, and how it works. So yeah, some things are just not negotiable. You cannot light things on fire without adult approval and supervision. You cannot play in the street. Other things are firm but flexible--you do have to go to bed at bedtime, BUT if you are super cooperative there is an outside chance that occasionally I will give you an extra half hour as a reward. (If you nag for an extra half hour this is highly unlikely, however.) Some things are even overtly negotiable--I will "give" X on my rigid boundary if you give Y on yours. For example, I want you to do ALL of the math problems, and today you REALLY don't want to do ANY of them; I am willing to allow you to do only the odd numbered problems IF you do them without any more fussing. You want three cookies, and I don't want you to ruin your dinner--BUT I can see that you really do believe you are going to starve to death in the next 5 minutes so you can have a carrot to gnaw on. (We did go through a "phase" of intense negotiating after we worked out of the all-day temper tantrum phase, but given the choice between the two, I pick non-stop negotiation over the screaming and hitting.) And yes, it has helped also for him to learn that sometimes if HE gives ME something I want (in the form of cooperative behavior) then I am very likely to give HIM something that HE wants (a reward). And then there are other things that are not "firm" at all, they totally flop around loose in the wind--you have to ask me, but when you do chances are REALLY good I'll say yes. Why? Well, because I love you, and I only say no when there's a really good reason. Trust me? Ask. Sure thing, kid, go ahead. (And what really amazes me is that once we were working solidy from a position of love and trust the "yes" answers really started coming back at me when I asked him to do things. I try to be considerate when I ask him, in the same way I want him to be considerate when he asks me, and I love that most of the time these days when I ask what I get back is a, "Sure thing, Mom, as soon as I'm done with...." and then it happens. Or (my favorite), "I'm on it!" It makes me tear up sometimes, still.)

 

Oh, and I also very much agree with the pp who said that relationship has to be of primary importance. Trust really is key. And REAL respect--the kind that is earned the hard way.

 

I don't know. I'm not going to go around telling everyone they have to parent the way I do in order to have good kids, but I do know that rewards, flexibility, and positive relationship (and fluoxitine) have really been the foundation of getting our son (dxed with Asperger's and Generalized Anxiety Disorder/OCD) from the point where he was the kid who gave his school technicians bloody noses and bite-shaped bruises, hid under tables, ran away from school, threw furniture, and tried to stab people with pencils (age 9), to the point where he is now a generally calm, even-tempered, mostly cooperative and really quite responsible 13 year-old. I swear when he was 5 I thought he'd have to be institutionalized before age 12 because he'd be too big for me to pin down and too dangerous to have around other children. Now I have no hesitation at all about leaving him in charge of dd while I go out for a couple hours to run errands. His rigidity could NOT be "broken". Now I'm ok with that, because it has been turned to a force for good rather than destruction. He now "rigidly" follows my rules--most of them because he can see the value and purpose in them, but a few even just because "I said so", and he has seen that in the past "I said so" and it turned out there was a good reason once he got old enough to understand it. And also because good things happen when we cooperate. Now that he knows what it is like to live without life being a constant battle (and believe me, this one came from the womb fighting) he's decided he kind of likes it. He's not scared of a battle of wills, but he no longer fights just out of reflex, and he knows how to get out of them without anyone getting hurt. And if I can give him good reasons for my side, he is as unbending in my favor as once he was in opposition. Seriously, we've talked about smoking, and this is a kid who now would rather DIE than pick up a cigarrette. I have no worries about him getting into drinking or drugs or irresponsible sex either. These are things he has made. up. his. mind. on, and I know how "rigid" he can be once he gets his teeth set about something. So yay for rigidity! (His sister, OTOH is a bit of a "follower" and I do worry a little for her when she gets older.) It's been a long, hard road to get where we are, and although I paint a rosy picture here because I am truly astounded at the progress he has made, we still have a way to go. But we have found what works for us, so at least now we're all moving in the right direction instead of sitting in a rut having massive meltdowns.

 

 

Anyway. I do know whereof you speak, when you speak of lighter fluid (or TNT) and forest fires. And rewards and positive relationship stuff has really been "it" for us. So if it's working for you too, I've totally got your back on this one.

Edited December 14, 2010 by MamaSheep

[Ottakee]

We (and his dev ped) are pretty certain there is a mood disorder there as well as the ADHD (although the ADHD behavior goes hand in hand with FASD and as you know, it's difficult to know what is coming from where). He just started Abilify and Buspar this past week. The Lamictal caused him too much tummy pain :( He is still on Clonidine for night time (sleeping). He has tried so many meds and nothing yet has seemed to really "work". I'm hopeful this new combo will help even things out. (although I realize it's not going to "fix" everything)

 

 

)

 

Have you ever seen a pediatric psychiatrist? That might be a way to go as they specialize in the meds for mood issues and have extensive training and experience in using these with kids.

 

I know it is hard. My own daughter was one that the social workers predicted would be in a group home/institution by school age due to her extreme behaviors, etc. She is now 15 and other than some anxiety doing VERY well on her meds (she is still mentally impaired but that is a breeze compared to the untreated mood stuff).

 

We also found that in addition to the meds, the fish oils were VERY helpful. They seem to "grease" her little nervous system and make things easier for her. We did years of the Omega Brites, 3 per day, and now are using County Life Omega 3 Mood, 2 a day with great results. We still need meds but they really do help.

[cathmom]

I wonder how long the OT would keep going to work if she were not rewarded with a paycheck periodically. And I bet she appreciates nice rewards like an occasional thank you, or even just seeing progress in a student. We all work for rewards of one kind or another.

 

This was my first thought when I read your post - "Oh, so you come here to work with him out of the goodness of your heart? Isn't your paycheck a reward?"

[MyLittleWonders]

Judy, you know I have your back. :grouphug: It's hard when specialists are in our lives for such a small fraction of it, and yet they think they have answers for us (answers to questions we never even asked them) because they are the "experts" and yet they have no idea the blood, sweat, and tears you have poured into raising your child and the work you have done to do the best by him. You know your ds and you know you are doing what is right by him.

[mykdsmomy]

Thank you once again to everyone who responded. :grouphug:

Brit~ you know I love you and cherish our friendship :grouphug:

 

 

Have you ever seen a pediatric psychiatrist? That might be a way to go as they specialize in the meds for mood issues and have extensive training and experience in using these with kids.

 

I know it is hard. My own daughter was one that the social workers predicted would be in a group home/institution by school age due to her extreme behaviors, etc. She is now 15 and other than some anxiety doing VERY well on her meds (she is still mentally impaired but that is a breeze compared to the untreated mood stuff).

 

We also found that in addition to the meds, the fish oils were VERY helpful. They seem to "grease" her little nervous system and make things easier for her. We did years of the Omega Brites, 3 per day, and now are using County Life Omega 3 Mood, 2 a day with great results. We still need meds but they really do help.

 

He has seen a few child psychiatrists. We started seeing this dev. ped recently who (imo) has more experience with meds than the psychiatrist we were seeing before. We started Abilify and Buspar which seem to be helping (we're not to a therapeutic dose yet but so far so good). I'm praying this combo will be the answer to our prayers! It's been a long road and so many of his meds have done more harm than good :(

[siloam]

Judy,

 

I am not familiar with the LD you are dealing with. I do disagree with the premise that as adults we do things just because and not for the reward. The rewards have just changed, and sometimes the reward is the avoidance of pain or difficulty, but adults do continue to work for the reward.

 

Personally after a morning of cleaning the entire house my rewards is always to get to have a Waffle for breakfast (physical reward). The reward for exercising is a good nights sleep, because if I stop I start having heart racing issues at night. This is not a heath threat, just irritating and tiring. (intangible reward) I push through and finish hs even when I don't wanna (like today, my last day before "Christmas vacation") because my reward is a sense of a job well done and not having to deal with the stress and feeling of failure (intangible reward).

 

Some kids take longer to see the immaterial benefits vs. physical rewards.

 

My oldest was recently having a hard time getting her work done. She would allow herself to be easily distracted and procrastinate till she was doing school from 7:00 am to 9:30 pm but only getting in about 2-3 hours worth of work over that entire time. I thought the lack of video games (which she wasn't allowed to play unless hs was done) would help, but no. She didn't care enough. Once it go to the point where she was still doing hs on Sunday I put my food down. I rode her (I hate doing that) and made her finish it in a day by both keeping her on track and taking away ALL privileges if she didn't. For the first time she learned the lesson of the intangible reward. A month later and I rarely have to remind her to get back to school. Yesterday she had everything done by about 3 (that is with a 2 hour break for lunch). She just couldn't see how stressed out and unhappy she was while she was in the middle of it, but once she got out of the negative cycle she knows she doesn't want to go back there.

 

My point is that until there is a certain developmental piece there (logic level) the untangle rewards just don't click. Physical rewards are the only way to communicate the intangible truths until the child is mature enough and able to learn the intangible. Anytime you are dealing with an LD that ability to grasp the intangible can be delayed.

 

I personally would begin to point out the intangible benefits to the child, after the job is done. Over time I would then begin to remind the child, ask them to recall what if feels like to be done vs. what it feels like right now and ask them which they would prefer? But if the tangible rewards are working then I wouldn't just cut them out till you are sure the child gets and can be motivated by the intangible benefits.

 

Heather

[iammommy]

You are doing a great job! Adults get rewards all the time...paycheck, bonuses, overtime, etc. At some point, you will be able to fade the rewards back, but he's still VERY young. Offering him choices was PERFECT in that OT situation, and the OT should have done that herself. Personally, I'd request a new OT. She seems pretty negative. Keep up the good work!

 

Nan:001_smile: