Possible dyslexia?

[cajunrose]

I posted this on the General board today.

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228683

Was told to come here...so here I am. :)

 

Where I am at now is very confused and overwhelmed and feeling like a total failure as a teacher to my daughter.

 

I don't know where to begin to get her help. My school system isn't going to be any help..I know this already.

 

I don't know whether or not to sit on it and watch it and try things to help her out...or whether or not to get her evaluated now.

 

My problem is that I'm not consistent..I know this...it's a fault of mine. It's becoming painfully obvious at the moment. I don't stick with a schedule. I know that I should do 'x' on this day and 'y' on this day..every week. I don't. :(

 

I make her read to me..books...at her level (very very easy) when I can, but she hates it so much, we don't do it near often enough. It frustrates both of us and usually ends up not so pleasant.

 

I just don't know where to go from here. I know I need to alter some things...but with Christmas coming...i don't see much of a point at changing things much until after the first of the year.

 

I really feel like a horrible teacher right now...ready to give it all up.

 

HELP..I'm drowning.

[FlutterbyMommy]

Stephanie,

 

I don't have any real advice because I have an almost 6 year old who I pretty much know has it (per OT), but has not been tested on this particular issue. I have been so busy with other issues that I just haven;t addressed the dyslexia.

 

I do want to say that simply looking for help, seeking answers, desiring to be better all indicates a love and devotion that is critical for homeschool success IMO. You have the foundation! That in itself is half the battle.

 

A part of the homeschool journey, that I am really becoming aware of now, is learning along with your child. This means in any area. So if you are weak in organization and/or structure, this is an area of self-education/self-improvement that you can work on improving.

 

Your child is young. You are at the beginning of the journey. Do not allow yourself to defeat yourself so early on, kwim? You give your child every opportunity to learn and grow, so why not be this kind and forgiving to yourself?

 

You are on track asking for help here. Ask BTDT mothers to share the structure and organization techniques. Set small goals and begin to help yourself improve at sticking to it.

 

Also, tehre are BTDT familiar with all manner of special needs that will give you a wealth of information. You are not alone!

 

Stay strong and focused, but most of all be kind to you!

[PeterPan]

Oh Cajun, the hardest part about a new problem is the whallop. You feel sort of shocked and bewildered and don't know what to do with it. But those emotions are going to settle down as you get used to it. You've done NOTHING WRONG, and as I read your other thread, I think you've done what you humanly can. In other words, you've exhausted what *you* can do, and it's time to start looking for what *others* can do for her. Just because your dh was successful with his dyslexia and survived DOESN'T mean your dd's outcome will be the same. Clearly it isn't going to be. She's going to need some evaluation and investigation to see what therapies will benefit her. Personally, with what you're describing, I'd start with a vision evaluation by a developmental optometrist and wait on the neuropsych. A lot of what you're describing can be her eyes, and once you've dealt with that you can see what you have left.

 

To find a developmental optometrist, go to http://www.covd.org Put your energy and emotion into something productive. Call and start researching this. That will get your mind off it and funnel you in a new direction, making you feel better. You're not trapped and you're not drowning. You're more on the side road waving a flag, wanting some help. The developmental optometrist will be a start.

 

From my experience, it only took us a few weeks to get in for an evaluation. You might even be able to get in by Christmas! Wouldn't that be such a RELIEF to finally have some answers? They'll astound you with the way they can quantify things. They'll look at stuff you wouldn't even believe. Ours hooks you up to a computer with infrared goggles to track your eye movements when reading. They can isolate eye function and show how each eye is focusing, converging, recovering, etc. It's really neat. Oh, so back to therapy. IF they find something that needs therapy, I suggest you STOP working on AAS for a while and just really beat the bush with the therapy. You might be blown away with how quickly you get results. You'll know when she's ready to start again. You DON'T have to force sounding out to get kids reading. I'd work on the eyes, see what the problem is, then go back at it when the problem is a bit better.

 

You're going to be fine. It's just a journey, a road to Holland, instead of the Italy where you thought you were going. :)

[cajunrose]

Thank you SO much for your encouragement. I can do this! *deep breath* I'll call and make an apt with an eye doctor on that list (one pretty close to me..yay) today.

 

One question though...can a dyslexic kid force themselves to read better in front of people? I was just thinking of this, anytime she reads in front of anybody but family (mainly peers), she does better and doesn't stumble and sound out quite as much. Same with my friend that is a special ed teacher that did a reading level on her. She didn't stumble as much. Is that possible?

[laundrycrisis]

She's going to need some evaluation and investigation to see what therapies will benefit her. Personally, with what you're describing, I'd start with a vision evaluation by a developmental optometrist and wait on the neuropsych. A lot of what you're describing can be her eyes, and once you've dealt with that you can see what you have left.

 

To find a developmental optometrist, go to www.covd.org Put your energy and emotion into something productive. Call and start researching this. That will get your mind off it and funnel you in a new direction, making you feel better. You're not trapped and you're not drowning. You're more on the side road waving a flag, wanting some help. The developmental optometrist will be a start.

.....

 

They can isolate eye function and show how each eye is focusing, converging, recovering, etc. It's really neat. Oh, so back to therapy. IF they find something that needs therapy, I suggest you STOP working on AAS for a while and just really beat the bush with the therapy. You might be blown away with how quickly you get results. You'll know when she's ready to start again. You DON'T have to force sounding out to get kids reading. I'd work on the eyes, see what the problem is, then go back at it when the problem is a bit better.

 

 

 

 

:iagree: All this. Our 7 (almost 8) yo is finally graduating from vision therapy, after a year of hard work. It has made a HUGE difference. He had severe problems with tracking, convergence, visual closure, form constancy, and visual sequential memory. Once the tracking and convergence issues were improved, so he was not seeing double and he could keep from losing his place, he was fine with the decoding part of phonics but could not recognize the same word he had just decoded, even on the same page in large print. He could not build any fluency because he could not recognize words on sight, so he was decoding everything over and over and over again. Spelling was a mystery to him, with all three of the processing problems involved. He also has a terrible time with handwriting because the processing issues have interfered with him having a mental picture of the letters, so forming them is really hard for him. The vision therapy has helped a lot.

 

We will still need to continue working on these issues at home, but he no longer needs weekly therapy appointments. IMO he would never have passed go without vision therapy. It was the start of resolving it all. It was very much worth it. If a COVD evaluation finds the sorts of problems they can treat, I would definitely do it.

Edited December 7, 2010 by laundrycrisis

[cajunrose]

Ok, I got an appointment with a vision therapy doctor for Dec 14. The lady made a snide comment about my saying I just woke up (at 8:30) :glare:

Anyway..have that ball rolling. We'll see what happens.

She does do one thing with her eyes that has always bothered me. When she watches tv, her head is at a 90 degree angle to the tv and she cuts her eyes back to it. Imagine pointing your head over your shoulder and then cutting your eyes back over your chest. That's how she watches tv and has since she was very little. The eye doctor said nothing was wrong (I continue to have her vision checked..as I'm not convinced that there isn't something wrong).

[laundrycrisis]

The eye doctor said nothing was wrong (I continue to have her vision checked..as I'm not convinced that there isn't something wrong).

 

We were told our son's vision was "nearly perfect" by a normal optometrist. We had to go to a COVD optometrist for his problems to be discovered....and they were really severe.

[merry gardens]

I posted this on the General board today.

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228683

Was told to come here...so here I am. :)

 

Where I am at now is very confused and overwhelmed and feeling like a total failure as a teacher to my daughter.

 

I don't know where to begin to get her help. My school system isn't going to be any help..I know this already.

 

I don't know whether or not to sit on it and watch it and try things to help her out...or whether or not to get her evaluated now.

 

My problem is that I'm not consistent..I know this...it's a fault of mine. It's becoming painfully obvious at the moment. I don't stick with a schedule. I know that I should do 'x' on this day and 'y' on this day..every week. I don't. :(

 

I make her read to me..books...at her level (very very easy) when I can, but she hates it so much, we don't do it near often enough. It frustrates both of us and usually ends up not so pleasant.

 

I just don't know where to go from here. I know I need to alter some things...but with Christmas coming...i don't see much of a point at changing things much until after the first of the year.

 

I really feel like a horrible teacher right now...ready to give it all up.

 

HELP..I'm drowning.

:grouphug:

I don't have much time for posting now, but here's another link. Auditory processing and phonemic awareness are often part of dyslexia. The first few levels of the Barton Reading and Spelling program deals with auditory processing/phonemic awareness. PLUS, the print and tiles are large so if there are vision problems the child should still be able to learn to read with the material. There's also a student screening because some children, like my son, need more remediation before starting this program. http://www.bartonreading.com/

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Guest]

Watching TV sideways is a big red flag to me. I'm glad you made an appointment with a COV doctor -- regular optometrists only check visual acuity (20/20 vision) and general eye health; they do not test for problems like convergence issues, depth perception, use of peripheral vision, visual processing. Having an evaluation does not necessarily mean you will be doing vision therapy. You might; but the idea is that this is a first place to look to rule out underlying visual issues.

 

And oh please oh please, do not beat yourself up about this. All of us on these boards have felt your incomprehension and frustration when we came up against our children's differences or difficulties and wondered what in the world we were doing wrong. That's one reason why having an evaluation is so tremendously helpful. Parents who work closely with their kids usually know when there is something off or unusual or problematic, and it's such a relief to find out the underlying neurology -- you feel the personal guilt thing lift off you, you don't feel so helpless, and you have a plan of action, something concrete to do, to remedy matters.

[PeterPan]

Uh yes, the way your dd is watching tv is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE red flag of a vision problem. You definitely want to get evaluated.

 

Now I know the others were suggesting Barton. Barton is terrific, but I'm not sure you need to worry about that right now, not when you've already been doing AAS. You didn't mention AAS in this thread but another, right? So maybe their rec of Barton was just to get you going toward OG methodology, NOT a statement that AAS is not going to work for you. Barton is the big cannon, the bazooka, and really important for some people. You might like to watch the pre-test she has on her website. It's a free video and explains things that might help you sort out if there are auditory issues going on right now. You could have both auditory and visual, and you could work on auditory while doing visual. I just wouldn't fiddle with AAS while your in the early throes of VT. VT for us was HARD WORK. Put your energy in the therapies and go back to the curriculum later.

 

I think the evaluation is going to blow your mind. Make sure you report back what they find! Just one week to wait. That isn't bad.

Edited December 8, 2010 by OhElizabeth

[merry gardens]

Uh yes, the way your dd is watching tv is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE red flag of a vision problem. You definitely want to get evaluated.

 

Now I know the others were suggesting Barton. Barton is terrific, but I'm not sure you need to worry about that right now, not when you've already been doing AAS. You didn't mention AAS in this thread but another, right? So maybe their rec of Barton was just to get you going toward OG methodology, NOT a statement that AAS is not going to work for you. Barton is the big cannon, the bazooka, and really important for some people. You might like to watch the pre-test she has on her website. It's a free video and explains things that might help you sort out if there are auditory issues going on right now. You could have both auditory and visual, and you could work on auditory while doing visual. I just wouldn't fiddle with AAS while your in the early throes of VT. VT for us was HARD WORK. Put your energy in the therapies and go back to the curriculum later.

 

I think the evaluation is going to blow your mind. Make sure you report back what they find! Just one week to wait. That isn't bad.

I agree she should try the Barton screening, which is free. Phonics programs, (like AAS and even Barton), requires the ability to hear sounds within words. If a child confused too many sounds, reading phonetically is much harder.

 

I know many people think of Barton as being super-expensive, but one of the ways we afford it (and some of the other special education materials I buy) is because I haven't paid for a formal dyslexia evaluation. I almost did but it was very expensive. We went through a speech therapy evaluation, vision testing and hearing exam, (all which was paid for by insurance.)

 

Many people find dyslexia evaluations highly valuable, but a dyslexia evaluation won't tell me anything that I don't already know. I know my son had problems reading. I tried a strong phonics program and some other suggestions recommended for people with dyslexia. That still wasn't enough. Eventually, I found Barton and the screening referred us to LiPS. If an evaluation told me my son had dyslexia, I would have spent a lot of money on an evaluation and then still needed a dyslexia program. Instead of spending my money on evaluations, I spend it on materials. Sometimes I really wish I had an evaluation in my hand to refer to, but I've read enough stories on threads here about problematic evaluations that I'm content with doing what works without a formal evaluation.

 

The op wrote some things that sound like vision issues, but some of the spelling problems she showed on her other thread suggest that there might be some auditory or phonemic awareness problems on too. (Sounds left off and substituted.) When someone has already worked with a strong phonics program and the child still has reading problems, there may be other things going on to cause reading problems.

Edited December 8, 2010 by merry gardens

[LizzyBee]

Barton is terrific, but I'm not sure you need to worry about that right now, not when you've already been doing AAS.

 

I just wanted to point out that AAS is a spelling program while Barton is both a reading and spelling program.

[laundrycrisis]

Many people find dyslexia evaluations highly valuable, but a dyslexia evaluation won't tell me anything that I don't already know. I know my son had problems reading. I tried a strong phonics program and some other suggestions recommended for people with dyslexia. That still wasn't enough. ... If an evaluation told me my son had dyslexia, I would have spent a lot of money on an evaluation and then still needed a dyslexia program. Instead of spending my money on evaluations, I spend it on materials.

 

 

I am really glad we did not start with dyslexia testing. They might have steered us in the wrong direction. Our son's problems were not caused by auditory/phonemic problems. I understand those are often problem areas, and they should be tested and addressed when they appear as problems, but they were not for him. There are different definitions of dyslexia floating around. I do not agree with the definitions that insist that it is primarily a phonemic awareness problems. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Our son fit the symptoms of dyseidetic dyslexia perfectly.

 

http://dyslexia.learninginfo.org/dyseidetic.htm

http://www.dyslexia.com/library/information.htm

 

He also has a pretty severe problem with sequencing. He never had a phonemic awareness problem and would not have been helped by that type of therapy. We started with intensive phonics with his tutor, and it was quickly apparent that he had no problem whatsoever with phonics. If he had shown any signs of problems with phonemic awareness or auditory processing, then we would have addressed those, but he didn't.

 

He had tracking and convergence problems, and he also had severe problems with visual closure, form constancy, and visual sequential memory. He was unable to hold a mental picture of a letter, or a word, in his mind, see it as a whole object, and not have it change. The work the VT has done with closure and constancy has resolved that, and now he can finally recognize words, has stopped the endless decoding, and is building fluency. He still has a significant sequential memory deficit that we will continue working on at home with techniques they have taught me. I will also be considering some other programs that might help sequential memory. I hope at some point he can at least remember the numbers 1-10 in order. :banghead:

 

When I read some dyslexia websites, I do not like the insistence that vision therapy doesn't help. I've come to believe that dyslexia is made up of different components, and not everyone will have the same mix of issues. A person needs the right help for their specific issues. I do not believe that all dyslexia programs do this.

 

I agree that vision therapy will not be enough to help someone whose main problems are auditory processing and phonemic awareness. Those people will need help in those specific areas, with the intensive phonics and whatever therapy there is for auditory processing. But when visual processing problems are part of the mix, they need to be addressed. Using large tiles or large print materials won't help that - if a person can't hold a mental image of a letter or word in his/her mind without forgetting pieces of it or having it constantly change, it won't matter how big or dark the words or letters are. The person can see them just fine.

 

Going through the intensive phonics program that our local dyslexia center uses would have been wasted on our son, because he never had a problem with phonics, phonemic awareness, or auditory processing. This would have been like a mirror image of a situation with a person whose problems are all auditory and phonemic wasting time and money in vision therapy he/she didn't need. I think for a person who has both types of issues, addressing one but not the other will not be enough, and then a parent might conclude "it didn't work" or that certain problems can't be helped and their child will have to live with it and adapt.

 

When there is a possibility of dyslexia, I think it's worthwhile to look at both the auditory/phonemic parts and the vision/visual processing parts, and address any problems that are found with the appropriate type of therapy. I also think that when there are both types of problems present, going through an intensive phonics program will be easier and more beneficial after the visual processing problems have improved.

Edited December 8, 2010 by laundrycrisis

[kareng]

Oh Cajunrose, I know your pain. My dd was 12 when I finally realized that she most likely had dsylexia. I remember feeling oh so guilty and "How could I know NOT have known this from the time she was born????!!!" and she was home schooled all that time. I think the hardest thing for me was that I was a public school teacher back before I began home schooling so surely I, if anyone, should have been able to fix this problem. But I couldn't.

 

My dd could barely read outloud, had leveled off at about the 2nd grade reading level. She hated reading, hated school with me, hated Math, and loved to draw (and is quite good at it).

 

I tried the Susan Barton site and found out that she wasn't even ready for that. she didn't even know what a syllable was so she couldn't break words into syllables. All her "sounding out" was just from memory. She didn't know the difference between many sounds that letters make so it makes so much sense that she couldn't read them or pronounce and of course she couldn't spell them! When she didn't know a word (which were many) she would try to find a similarly shaped word that she knew that she could substitute in there. Reading outloud was so hard for her. She needed a Lindamood Bell tutor to get her up to speed so that she could do the the Susan Barton method later. She was tested, was definitely dyslexic. So, I learned the program (Lindamood Bell) with her and helped her at home. In about 6 months, she was able to go from 2nd grade reading to almost grade level (7th) and I was thrilled. And so was she!

 

Please be kind to yourself. You have nothing to do with this. The structure (I wrestle with that as well) will come as will the peace once your child learns that they can do it. I used to think my dd wasn't even trying and that surely if she tried harder, she would get it. I know realize that she tried harder than any of us ever did and still didn't get it. Now, she loves to read because she knows the words and it doesn't take forever to get through a sentence not remember any of it once she got to the end.

 

Forgive yourself (if needed), love yourself and your child, try out the vision therapist and if needed, here's the Lindamood Bell site to check out: http://www.lindamoodbell.com/

 

You will get through this and so will your child. I will keep you in my prayers.

 

Karen G.

[RamonaQ]

I think it is very challenging homeschooling a special needs kids. First, there is all the extra work to remediate issues. Second, there is a lot of emotional issues for mom-- guilt, questioning the "what-ifs", worrying about the future, worrying about our sanity (maybe that is just me).

 

You have gotten lots of advice and avenues to explore, I can really not offer much different. We had done/ are doing vision therapy, neuropsch eval and Wilson/ Linguistic Remedies/ LIPS tutoring. They are all helpful, and I can comment more on each if you want more info.

 

I can say that you will forge your own path. You will do your own research and follow avenues that make sense for your child. You have a gut sense of what is happening and that will guide you. I know you feel lost and overwhelmed right now, and don't trust your instinct because that was the way I felt when we first started walking down this path. I know once you begin, you will discover what will work for you.

[cajunrose]

I will respond to each one of you individually in a few minutes. I have a couple of specific questions first though.

In the last few weeks, she has made a big improvement reading wise. She is still very slow and has to sound out at least one word in a sentence.

For example the following sentence:

He was staring at the gorilla's big nostrils.

 

Starting and nostrils hung her up. The only reason gorilla didn't is because the whole page was about a gorilla and had a picture. There was also a picture of nostrils but she didn't pick up on that.

 

Being that I AM seeing slight (every so slight..lol) improvement over where she used to be, should I still persue this? Should I give it a few months and see if it's a maturity thing?

 

I have been trying to teach her to read since she was 5. We were using explode the code and the reading lesson. We stopped explode the code b/c we hit a brick wall there in book 4. Since then, I have just been reading a lot with her. So I'm not so sure about the 'strong phonics program'. I have just been doing the best I can on my own. Not working obvoiusly.

 

Yes, the cutting her eyes and spelling are still a huge concern with me. I started the AAS thinking that it would improve her phonics and reading also. It hasn't yet.

 

I guess what I'm asking is that I'm seeing improvement...not much...but some...should I still go through with this or just wait until I see a complete downturn in her reading? Friends are telling me its a maturity thing. Ugh..what to do what to do.

[LizzyBee]

I guess what I'm asking is that I'm seeing improvement...not much...but some...should I still go through with this or just wait until I see a complete downturn in her reading? Friends are telling me its a maturity thing. Ugh..what to do what to do.

 

On the one hand, she's only 7. On the other hand, you're seeing some specific symptoms that are concerning. Here's what I'd do: Do the free student screening on http://www.bartonreading.com. That will give you some insight as to auditory processing issues. Second, go ahead and have an evaluation by a developmental optometrist. I am skeptical of vision therapy, but given your dd's symptoms, I would certainly consider it if the dr. recommends it.