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Does it matter where you go to college cross post


creekland
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Seriously? Those schools you mention that *won't pass muster* are strongly recruited by top-tier financial firms such as Goldman Sachs.

 

For example, U of Chicago has arguably one of the best, if not the best, financial engineering programs in the U.S. It sounds like the recruiters don't know much. (That wouldn't surprise me.)

 

Bingo.

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The kids I've met who've attended Ivies have been original thinkers and go-getters who seem to be genuinely interested in what they're studying. They are not all primarily interested in becoming wealthy or powerful. Of course, there are exceptions.

 

It's been my observation (and I say this as a Stanford grad married to a Harvard grad) that the most interesting & original thinkers of our acquaintance tend NOT to be the ones who went to the most prestigious schools. The Ivies are full of the stereotypical Type A overachievers who are mainly interested in building up an impressive-looking resume for the next "stage" (i.e. college admissions in high school, grad school admissions in college, the "right" internship in grad school, etc., etc.) :rolleyes: I was one of these myself until I became a mom and wound up critical of the whole mindset. My DH is only now at 35 starting to question it.

 

The most interesting & original thinkers of my acquaintance tend to have gone to small, somewhat "quirky" colleges. Places like Reed, Hampshire, WPI, Harvey Mudd, St. John's, Thomas Aquinas, Carleton, Oberlin, etc.

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It's been my observation (and I say this as a Stanford grad married to a Harvard grad) that the most interesting & original thinkers of our acquaintance tend NOT to be the ones who went to the most prestigious schools. The Ivies are full of the stereotypical Type A overachievers who are mainly interested in building up an impressive-looking resume for the next "stage" (i.e. college admissions in high school, grad school admissions in college, the "right" internship in grad school, etc., etc.) :rolleyes: I was one of these myself until I became a mom and wound up critical of the whole mindset. My DH is only now at 35 starting to question it.

 

The most interesting & original thinkers of my acquaintance tend to have gone to small, somewhat "quirky" colleges. Places like Reed, Hampshire, WPI, Harvey Mudd, St. John's, Thomas Aquinas, Carleton, Oberlin, etc.

 

Thank you! I agree, but didn't know how to say it without being offensive---and I agree because both of my parents are Stanford grads and I have known lots of Ivy's just like you describe. :tongue_smilie: Certainly not a blanket statement......

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I would like to see more colleges that have the students help run the campus. There's no reason why they can't clean, cook, help with the grounds, run the computer labs, etc. Hopefully that would translate into lower tuition, hands-on learning, and real world work experience.

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It's been my observation (and I say this as a Stanford grad married to a Harvard grad) that the most interesting & original thinkers of our acquaintance tend NOT to be the ones who went to the most prestigious schools. The Ivies are full of the stereotypical Type A overachievers who are mainly interested in building up an impressive-looking resume for the next "stage" (i.e. college admissions in high school, grad school admissions in college, the "right" internship in grad school, etc., etc.) :rolleyes: I was one of these myself until I became a mom and wound up critical of the whole mindset. My DH is only now at 35 starting to question it.

 

The most interesting & original thinkers of my acquaintance tend to have gone to small, somewhat "quirky" colleges. Places like Reed, Hampshire, WPI, Harvey Mudd, St. John's, Thomas Aquinas, Carleton, Oberlin, etc.

 

Yes, you can definitely find the overachievers who've taken a more formulaic approach to their college education and career path. I know many like this. I wonder if these people tend to be students who lacked a sense of their true selves before they headed off to college? IOW, students who did what they felt was safe and necessary but didn't have a chance to develop what truly interested them.

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Thank you! I agree, but didn't know how to say it without being offensive---and I agree because both of my parents are Stanford grads and I have known lots of Ivy's just like you describe. :tongue_smilie: Certainly not a blanket statement......

 

You can find plenty of individuals who attended mediocre schools and are not very well educated but think quite highly of themselves, too. That's not much better.

 

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I don't know. My feeling is that they are the ones who are trying to please someone, or trying to make them proud of them, or trying to make someone (or the world) notice them, or the ones that enjoy the attention overachieving brings, or the ones who are very good at working hard for a later reward that they have been promised (unlike most poor lambs) and are doing what they think it takes to get that reward. I suspect that quite a lot of them are setting themselves up for rather shattering midlife crises. The ones who enjoy the attention might be ok.

-Nan

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Jane, did you see the article in the NYT on Thursday on transplant patients in AZ being cut off, due to state budget cuts? They will die if the state doesn't rescind the cuts. Bill Maher on Fareed Zakaria's program on CNN yesterday called this type of thing the "Drop Dead" health care program.

 

So, yes, I do think we are speeding toward stratification in our society.

 

I hope we are not all going to get screwed over with the new healthcare "reform". Every time I think about it, I get irritated. A big giveaway to insurance companies. Oh where, oh where, did the public option go? (And for that matter, where has my president gone . . .)

 

:iagree: I dream of universal healthcare and universal education that brings people out of poverty and levels the playing field. You can't lose everything because you got sick and you are guaranteed a college education if you want it no matter if you are Oprah's kid (I know she has none) or your parents don't have two pennies to rub together. Somewhere, over the rainbow...

 

 

Creekland, my dd has mentioned that she thinks teaching, even what homeschooling moms do, causes dependency, and in her words, immaturity, in teenagers. I realize she has a radical view, but it is worth thinking about. She much prefers teaching herself, with her Saxon and Apologia and Galore Park books.

 

I don't disagree and on my most fearful days I struggle with grabbing the reigns out of dd's hands.

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and you are guaranteed a college education if you want it

 

I just have to add, "and if you qualify academically for it." For 4 year schools students would need to be ready for college level classes (mostly anyway). I'd leave community colleges open to everyone even if they need remedial classes, but, even for those, if you take classes and continually get Cs or lower there would be a limit or a gap year would be required before trying again. Otherwise I see too many lazy students who would use the system to avoid work in a similar way that they use unemployment and other systems now.

 

As a taxpayer, I'd love to support higher education for those who are willing to work for it. I don't want to spend a dime for those using the system to freeload. We've had students stay in our high school until age 21 (failing enough to not graduate) simply so they and their folks could keep feeding at the public trough. (They'll admit it if you ask.) They're frequently absent and often, but not always, behavior problems when they are there. I'm sure they would do the same at cc if they could. Once they graduate they find work, work long enough to qualify for benefits, then perform so poorly (or don't show up) enough that they get fired. Voila! Unemployment kicks in! Once that runs out they'll get a job, work long enough to qualify for benefits (they have the # of days worked out), and the cycle continues.

 

Working in a public school has REALLY opened my eyes to a segment of society that I didn't even realize existed. I guess in a perfect world they aren't there either, but in our real world, they certainly are - and it's not just one or two either.

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I don't think anyone wants to see waste, creekland. That is the problem with the more socialist countries; people are trying to work the system.

 

Gosh, sounds like Washington and Wall St., doesn't it?

 

When ABC did an expose on freeloaders a few years back they showed everyone from the men on the street corner using all sorts of freebies for food and lodging (who simply didn't want to work) to the corporate giants (owners) and millionaires.

 

I'd like to find a system that cuts it all.

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I just have to add, "and if you qualify academically for it." [snip].

 

When ABC did an expose on freeloaders a few years back they showed everyone from the men on the street corner using all sorts of freebies for food and lodging (who simply didn't want to work) to the corporate giants (owners) and millionaires.

 

I'd like to find a system that cuts it all.

 

I totally agree.

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I don't know. My feeling is that they are the ones who are trying to please someone, or trying to make them proud of them, or trying to make someone (or the world) notice them, or the ones that enjoy the attention overachieving brings, or the ones who are very good at working hard for a later reward that they have been promised (unlike most poor lambs) and are doing what they think it takes to get that reward. I suspect that quite a lot of them are setting themselves up for rather shattering midlife crises. The ones who enjoy the attention might be ok.

-Nan

 

I agree. I think the students who get the most out of college -- maybe even life -- are those who have made the switch from extrinsic (outward) motivation to intrinsic (inward) motivation. They have a well-developed sense of autonomy with parents who encourage and support that part of their development. That's not always an easy process particularly for parents!

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Both my children go to a state school UNC Charlotte. My Dd is going there for dance. We chose not to go to the School of the Arts because I felt Dd needed a second degree that she could earn a living off of once she can no longer dance or can't find a job with a dance company. The school of the Arts offers no choices but the arts. She chose UNCC because it has a program where you work directly with a well know ballet company and have a shot at getting an internship when she graduates. It also has a Japanese major which is the other thing she wanted to study. She wants to become a translator. My Ds chose UNCC because it has a ROTC program that is not near us :). Neither of my kids wanted to go out of state and these were pretty much their only choice given what they were looking for. We have been very blessed in that both kids have been given lots of need based help other wise they could not go to college. Dd has two loans totaling $7,500 that she has had to take out during the 3 years she has attended so far and she has 2 more years to go. She got all of her tuition paid last year on need based. This year she had a $5000 loan because of couple of the state sources for loans didn't have the money. Ds and Dd are expected to get full need based rides next year. When we did our research we looked into the financial aid programs of each school and this was the one that gave out the most need based grants. So those of you who worry you can't afford to send your child to college don't automatically assume you can't and not apply. Go ahead and fill out the NAFSA. We qualified for full pell grants and some other federal and state grants. It can be done without huge loans if you be sure to check your colleges out closely even if you know your child can't get a merit scholarship.

Edited by Alyce
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Both my children go to a state school UNC Charlotte. My Dd is going there for dance. We chose not to go to the School of the Arts because I felt Dd needed a second degree that she could earn a living off of once she can no longer dance or can't find a job with a dance company. The school of the Arts offers no choices but the arts. She chose UNCC because it has a program where you work directly with a well know ballet company and have a shot at getting an internship when she graduates. It also has a Japanese major which is the other thing she wanted to study. She wants to become a translator. My Ds chose UNCC because it has a ROTC program that is not near us :). Neither of my kids wanted to go out of state and these were pretty much their only choice given what they were looking for. We have been very blessed in that both kids have been given lots of need based help other wise they could not go to college. Dd has two loans totaling $7,500 that she has had to take out during the 3 years she has attended so far and she has 2 more years to go. She got all of her tuition paid last year on need based. This year she had a $5000 loan because of couple of the state sources for loans didn't have the money. Ds and Dd are expected to get full need based rides next year. When we did our research we looked into the financial aid programs of each school and this was the one that gave out the most need based grants. So those of you who worry you can't afford to send your child to college don't automatically assume you can't and not apply. Go ahead and fill out the NAFSA. We qualified for full pell grants and some other federal and state grants. It can be done without huge loans if you be sure to check your colleges out closely even if you know your child can't get a merit scholarship.

 

Thanks for posting Alyce. It's really good to hear there can be financing options that work.

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I would just like to add that it isn't true that merit aid only goes to perfect scorers or some very high achievers. My d has a good score and some outside classes with a good GPA. BUt she isn't a NMSF or has an outstanding score. She is so far receiving merit awards from every school she has been accepted to. While looking at schools, I found schools that award aid for 25 ACT. One school is changing next year to guaranteed no cost admittance to Pell Grant recipient families whose child scores 25 or above and has a certain GPA (and it wasn't a 4.0). ANother school offers 15K plus summer scholarship for travel one year to students who have 29 ACT and 3.6 GPA in high school. You only have to maintain a 2.5 in college which is much better than many. I can go on and on. But for many people, particularly those in high instate tuition cost states, private institutions may be more affordable.

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  • 1 month later...

Some students thrive with good profs even if their peers are less than stellar. Not my son. His experience at cc and a state university was quite negative and very demoralizing as he was surrounded by students who are not exactly setting the intellectual world on fire. And this included the honors college at the 4-year school. At the same time I know another very bright, motivated student who is completely unaffected by her peers' apathy or lack of intellectual prowess. So...know your student!

 

Yolanda

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I missed this crossposted thread, but found it now that it's been resurrected and wish I'd seen this before!

I think that many people constantly seek validation of their own decision making process. If a state school or CC was fine for them or another family member, then it is fine for everybody. Similarly, some families seem so focused on the Ivies that they cannot see any other options.

 

Or maybe one moral. I agree with Nan that college and education in general is an important priority for our family. Hence we homeschooled. Hence we saved for our son's college education.

 

 

 

I agree about the validation part. Future college is one of the reasons we homeschooled, although my eldest is now in ps high school

 

I think that many people outside of the NE cannot even name the Ivies. ."

 

I moved to NE when I got married and I don't know the Ivies outside of the few you mentioned that most people know.

That is a really good point, about children living with you after college. We are assuming (and so is the rest of the extended family and many friends I know) that they will live with us in order to get rid of their debt, or save for a house, or whatever.

-Nan

 

I think it's a good idea.

 

Yikes! Yikes! Yikes!!!!

I didn't say that anybody SHOULD be regulating their family size by whether they can educate them. I said that most of the people I know DID do this, voluntarily, because sending their children college was that important to them, because that just tends to be what happens here. If you have a third baby, I can guarentee that quite a lot of people will say to you, "Gee, how are you going to pay for college for them all?"Sigh - I knew I shouldn't post so much information on this subject. It is way too regional and personal. Ug.

-Nan

 

It's okay :), I understand what you meant. For some of us the third child was an unplanned surprise, too, and we'd already done a lot of thinking had had decided two was enough.

 

We're in the group Jane mentioned that can't afford to save for college at this point. One of the reasons I'm strongly considering letting my middle dc go to ps next year is so that I can start teaching piano more seriously to help pay of our mortgage (an affordable house, or at least so-called, but we bought late and dh was adamant that we buy a house and quit renting) and help my dc when they go to college, even though I have told them we can't. I could homeschool one and teach more, but not two given our situation and specific dc. Since two of my students moved, I'm down to three and its too difficult to schedule more in at the moment with the two of them at home.

 

My family mainly went to university in Canada, and to a variety of types of schools, so we have seen a variety of experiences. Interestingly, those who have done well financially have gone to a range of levels of schools, as have those who haven't. A few have done advanced degrees or post docs elsewhere (2 in the States, one in Australia and one in at Cambridge in the UK and in Iceland--this is two different sides of my family.) Because of this strong academic push on both sides of our family, university/college is considered very important, whether for a career or for intellectual fulfillment. My dc will go unless they adamantly refuse not to, and will figure it out one way or another. We're encouraging them to avoid debt or to get as little as possible, but ulitmately it will be up to them because they will be adults.

Edited by Karin
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I didn't read all of the replies but I wanted to throw out another thought.

You know you won't be sitting on the Supreme Court if you're not an Ivy Grad, right? So, if you have a kids who wants to sit on the SC, keep that in mind.

However, both our Senators and Gov (SD) went to SD state schools. And one of them may run for prez.

Start with the end in mind.

My dh went to a very expensive, very private, very competitive grad school. He has incredible training from world class intellectuals. We will, however, probably be paying off his d*mnable student loans until the.day.we.die.

He has always made great money, always had good jobs, always made the short list for whatever jobs he has applied for. So, vocationally, it was worth it. Financially, not so much (though if we'd only have 1.6 kid and I'd gone back to work f.t. years ago like all other spouses did, we would be in a much better place $-wise).

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I didn't read all of the replies but I wanted to throw out another thought.

You know you won't be sitting on the Supreme Court if you're not an Ivy Grad, right? So, if you have a kids who wants to sit on the SC, keep that in mind.

However, both our Senators and Gov (SD) went to SD state schools. And one of them may run for prez.

Start with the end in mind.

My dh went to a very expensive, very private, very competitive grad school. He has incredible training from world class intellectuals. We will, however, probably be paying off his d*mnable student loans until the.day.we.die.

 

Thank you for this. Our oldest is at a state school and I'm trying to nudge our next daughter in that direction even though she is starry-eyed at the possibilities. I smile and nod. Posts such as yours remind me of the course I know we should follow. I will not be sidetracked by bragging rights. I will not be sidetracked by bragging rights :D

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