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So I bought V/V...


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I wanted to like Idea Chain, I really did... but without samples to look at I just could not do it. I'm a chicken. :lol: Shipping was completely insane for V/V though. Are you ready for this? For the kit and videos and a few workbooks, $180 JUST FOR SHIPPING to Canada. :svengo: I'm so glad my dh is behind this, because spending a thousand dollars on on program is hard to swallow. However, the awesome reviews here and elsewhere online lead me to believe that I won't regret it. I hope he does well with it. I hope I hope I hope!!! :D

 

Thank you again to all who helped! I'm about 98% certain that I'll pull him out of school at Christmas break. *gulp*

Edited by specialmama
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I wanted to like Idea Chain, I really did... but without samples to look at I just could not do it. I'm a chicken. :lol: Shipping was completely insane for V/V though. Are you ready for this? For the kit and videos and a few workbooks, $180 to ship to Canada. :svengo: I'm so glad my dh is behind this, because spending a thousand dollars on on program is hard to swallow. However, the awesome reviews here and elsewhere online lead me to believe that I won't regret it. I hope he does well with it. I hope I hope I hope!!! :D

 

Thank you again to all who helped! I'm about 98% certain now, that I'll pull him out of school at Christmas break. *gulp*

That sounds wonderful! (Expensive, but wonderful!) I hope it works for your son.

 

LOL that you think you were a chicken not going with IdeaChain! I was the big chicken with v/v, and that's why I went with IdeaChain.:lol:

 

Did you get the v/v training videos? I was seriously looking at those, but they are roughly the price of IdeaChain. Being both a chicken and a tightwad--I went with the scripted program that didn't seem to require as much training. I never got back to answering your question on the difference between the two programs. There are some other differences between the two programs, but the instructor's training (v/v) vs. scripting & phone support (i.c.) is probably the biggest difference.

 

Thank goodness for supportive husbands who don't mind when we spend the money on special programs like this!

 

I think you will be very happy with V/V. Keep us updated on how it works out!

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That sounds wonderful! (Expensive, but wonderful!) I hope it works for your son.

 

LOL that you think you were a chicken not going with IdeaChain! I was the big chicken with v/v, and that's why I went with IdeaChain.:lol: Too funny!

 

Did you get the v/v training videos? I was seriously looking at those, but they are roughly the price of IdeaChain. Being both a chicken and a tightwad--I went with the scripted program that didn't seem to require as much training. I never got back to answering your question on the difference between the two programs. There are some other differences between the two programs, but the instructor's training (v/v) vs. scripting & phone support (i.c.) is probably the biggest difference.

 

Thank goodness for supportive husbands who don't mind when we spend the money on special programs like this! AMEN!!!

 

I think you will be very happy with V/V. Keep us updated on how it works out!

 

Yes, I did get the videos because I'd like to implement this program in January so I don't have the time to pour over the manual. I will spend a few hours a day reading it, but MY comprehension may lag! :lol: Also, being in Canada makes it very difficult to attend a training seminar or one of their clinics. I want to do it right the first time, so I decided I had to get the DVDs. No problem on the other thread, I appreciate all your input so far! Thank you, and I absolutely will keep everyone updated. I'm excited about it! I really think this is what he has needed for years. I just didn't know it existed! :D

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Thanks for the link on the videos! Do you know if they would be comparable to the training seminars? There is one 1.5 hours from me in Feb., but it's SO expensive!:001_huh:

 

I'm assuming they replace the seminars, because they are for training. I actually prefer the DVDs because you can pause, watch repeatedly, watch next year, then resell. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...
At the risk of repeating myself, have you all seen this video you can watch for FREE to learn about V/V? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw65NKe0VmY

 

It's kind of long at 75 minutes, but it's totally worth your time.

 

Yes, I've seen it, but it doesn't actually go step by step how to actually implement the program. It just convinced me all the more that my kids would benefit from it.:D

 

The DVDs I'm referring to actually shows Nanci Bell doing V/V, and from what I UNDERSTAND anyway, teaches someone how to actually use the program. I'm wondering if I could substitute the DVDs for the training conference.

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I don't know, she went through all the steps for each stage. She just did it so fast. I had to keep pausing and taking notes to get it all written down. But I guess I'm in therapy mode already. It just sort of made sense to me. After I watched the video, I concluded I didn't need the book to implement it, at least at the basic level. I saw the book, didn't love it, but that was before I watched the video. Next time we do OT, which may be in January with all our holiday stuff, I'll probably take some time and look it over again.

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I don't know, she went through all the steps for each stage. She just did it so fast. I had to keep pausing and taking notes to get it all written down. But I guess I'm in therapy mode already. It just sort of made sense to me. After I watched the video, I concluded I didn't need the book to implement it, at least at the basic level. I saw the book, didn't love it, but that was before I watched the video. Next time we do OT, which may be in January with all our holiday stuff, I'll probably take some time and look it over again.

 

Well, the basics are in the video, but the details, how to phrase things, pacing, correcting, etc. aren't.

 

Kirsten, just as an observation here, why are you doing this the hard way??? In your shoes, I would buy IC in a heartbeat, not V/V. IC is open and go, meaning it's much more likely to get done in your situation.

 

I'm very much considering it. I already own V/V, which is one reason I'm thinking about getting the V/V videos. One thing I've been wondering is whether I can do IC and then move to V/V easily. I've heard that IC doesn't go as far as V/V, so I know eventually I'll need V/V anyway. If IC and V/V are similar enough when it comes to implementation, then I can probably figure it out easily enough. But if I'd need to learn how to use V/V properly even after IC, then I might as well just learn how to use V/V from the get go.

 

LOL clear as mud?

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Actually, the feedback on the boards has been that people who do IC finally get the theory of how it works and have no problem applying that to longer texts (paragraphs, etc.). Since you already have V/V, it would make more sense to buy IC, which is open and go, get going, and then pick up your V/V manual and it will probably make more sense. We saw this all the time with people buying something like SWR (lots of theory, not so much specifics), who got overwhelmed, tried another program (PR, AAS), then realized how SWR was supposed to work and could go back. See, I'm not nuts for saying this. :)

 

And no, I don't need dialogues, lol. But we're already in therapy mode. I watched this lady, who is a SLP, and put her methodology and little tricks onto my SLP's body. Made perfect sense, lol. But I'm sort of fearless about how I implement things I guess, not too perfectionist. :)

 

You know, it seems to me someone around here should scan and post a couple pages from IC, just so people can see what it's like. Not enough to blow their proprietary secrets, just enough for people to see what it's like and how helpful (open and go) it is. Cuz as you know, V/V is not open and go!

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Actually, the feedback on the boards has been that people who do IC finally get the theory of how it works and have no problem applying that to longer texts (paragraphs, etc.). Since you already have V/V, it would make more sense to buy IC, which is open and go, get going, and then pick up your V/V manual and it will probably make more sense.

 

This is EXACTLY what I've been wondering, but I hadn't actually seen anyone say it. Thanks!:001_smile:

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Hey Kirstin, just to backtrack a bit, I was over at the Gander (V/V) website, and some of their pre-done stuff looks very, very good! I had seen the storybooks that come in the V/V kit and liked them. They have newer materials called Imagine That! and some other things that look very open and go. It might be those would solve your problem, since you already have the manual. They intrigue me quite a bit. :)

 

Merry on the boards here has IC. Maybe if you email her she'd scan you a few representative pages so you can see what it's like. The Gander board has samples. Then you'd know for certain what suits you. I'm thinking for my purposes those extra materials from V/V are making a lot of sense. They go through the levels and focus where my dd is.

 

That's all speculation obviously, since I've never bought any of this. I was just trying to be the voice of reason and suggest not getting locked into something that would require more teacher-prep than you can reasonably handle. Beyond that, your guess is as good as mine! :)

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Yes, they came last week. I've watched the first 2 videos and read the first 2 chapters of the manual. I LOVE the graded workbooks. They seem very open & go. It's all there, you don't need anything else to go with the workbooks. The kit came in a large trunk. No wonder it cost so much to ship. 40 lbs worth of material. I haven't implemented any of it yet, apart from some of the primer material. In the manual they talk about V/V being a follow-up to Lips, which I really didn't know. But if one was to go ahead with V/V without Lips, that we should start working on picturing things in this sense:

(this is not a direct quote, I'm just ad-libbing)

"This doll is riding the horse. If the doll falls off the horse, what do you picture will happen?"

child may answer "she'll fall on her head"

if child doesn't answer, we can say "I picture the doll falling on her head. Let's see what will happen." Then have the doll fall.

"Wow, did you see that? What we pictured happened."

Incorporating this "picturing" into our playtime will supposedly prep us for V/V. That's about all I have now, but I'm sure I'll have more to add as we get into it.

Can I just say that I love the kit though? *imagining an affirmative response* Okay, I LOVE the kit! I love it love it love it! I open that trunk and see the treasures inside and I just know it's going to be worth every penny. It's just what my son needs. :D

 

ETA: when I find my reading glasses things will speed along. For now I can only read a few paragraphs before I feel like I'm going to chuck my cookies!

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What are the graded workbooks like? I've seen them but am having trouble "picturing" (LOL I crack myself up) what would be in them, since pretty much everything is oral, at least according to the V/V manual. What is in them?

 

LOL I do get that! I could not picture IC, that's why I went with V/V. Here's to picturing things! LOL

 

Here's a link to the grade 2A workbook. http://www.ganderpublishing.com/Visualizing-Verbalizing-Workbook-Grade-2-Book-A.html I bought the entire grade 2 and grade 3 sets. If you click to expand the picture, you'll see what it's like. You can see sample pages from each of the graded workbooks when you click the link for the individual workbook, not a set for sale. The workbooks are sequential it seems, so you'd have to pick a place to start and move forward, ie: don't do the 2C book, then 2B. I didn't find that clear on the website, but it certainly is clear in person. I hope that helps. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer. Again, I'll know more when we actually start using it. :001_smile:

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LOL I do get that! I could not picture IC, that's why I went with V/V. Here's to picturing things! LOL

 

Here's a link to the grade 2A workbook. http://www.ganderpublishing.com/Visualizing-Verbalizing-Workbook-Grade-2-Book-A.html I bought the entire grade 2 and grade 3 sets. If you click to expand the picture, you'll see what it's like. You can see sample pages from each of the graded workbooks when you click the link for the individual workbook, not a set for sale. The workbooks are sequential it seems, so you'd have to pick a place to start and move forward, ie: don't do the 2C book, then 2B. I didn't find that clear on the website, but it certainly is clear in person. I hope that helps. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer. Again, I'll know more when we actually start using it. :001_smile:

 

 

VERY, VERY interesting!!!!! So the workbooks almost go through the whole dialogue that you'd go through one on one with a student. Hmmmmmmmm. So how are you supposed to use them? Instead of the one-on-one? Or just as some reinforcement? I like that, if need be, the child could do them on his own.

 

What are the videos like? Do you think they'd replace a training conference?

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VERY, VERY interesting!!!!! So the workbooks almost go through the whole dialogue that you'd go through one on one with a student. Hmmmmmmmm. So how are you supposed to use them? Instead of the one-on-one? Or just as some reinforcement? I like that, if need be, the child could do them on his own.

 

What are the videos like? Do you think they'd replace a training conference?

 

My goodness, I'm sorry. I just realized that I never answered from previous questions about the videos! Keeping in mind that I've not attended a training seminar, I'd say the videos are all you need. I've only watched the first 2 so far, and they both begin with the same Introduction, which outlines the steps in the entire program. From there, each video goes into demonstrations using the featured step in the following teaching scenarios: 1) one-on-one 2) small group 3) classroom. If there are instances which she would like us to focus on, she mentions that prior to the video segment. I found the material in both DVDs worth watching, even the classroom one.

 

As for the workbooks, I believe the original intent was for reinforcement, but I don't see why one cannot just use a workbook, sans kit, depending on the child. Now in my situation, my son needs MAJOR comprehension work, so the kit is still TOTALLY worth it for us. The kit attacks the skills from ALL angles, flipping things, developing things, whereas the workbook seems to reinforce what was learned and from a narrower scope of angles. But really, I bet there's a huge chunk of kids out there that only need the workbook. If my child was a bit higher functioning and just needed a bit of comprehension work, then I'd just get a workbook and try it to see. I'll add more later with a workbook on my lap....

Edited by specialmama
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My goodness, I'm sorry. I just realized that I never answered from previous questions about the videos! Keeping in mind that I've not attended a training seminar, I'd say the videos are all you need. I've only watched the first 2 so far, and they both begin with the same Introduction, which outlines the steps in the entire program. From there, each video goes into demonstrations using the featured step in the following teaching scenarios: 1) one-on-one 2) small group 3) classroom. If there are instances which she would like us to focus on, she mentions that prior to the video segment. I found the material in both DVDs worth watching, even the classroom one.

 

As for the workbooks, I believe the original intent was for reinforcement, but I don't see why one cannot just use a workbook, sans kit, depending on the child. Now in my situation, my son needs MAJOR comprehension work, so the kit is still TOTALLY worth it for us. The kit attacks the skills from ALL angles, flipping things, developing things, whereas the workbook seems to reinforce what was learned and from a narrower scope of angles. But really, I bet there's a huge chunk of kids out there that only need the workbook. If my child was a bit higher functioning and just needed a bit of comprehension work, then I'd just get a workbook and try it to see. I'll add more later with a workbook on my lap....

 

Ooooooooh, so tempting!!!!!!!

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Yes, I find it very interesting too, because much of the material IS scripted in V/V. (see link and click on the enlarged samples for each individual product, not groupings of products.) The V/V Stories Book 1,2 and 3 are all scripted. The easel books are all scripted. The graded workbooks are all scripted. There's no scripting with the rewards (Magic Rocks) or the Student Progress Record. You don't need those scripted anyway. The manual (and videos) show how to use the felts. There's nothing left, really. :confused: But, then again, I've never seen IC, so I don't have anything to compare it to. But honestly, I find it all scripted well enough to suit any parent who can use a regular curriculum.

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Karyn, we'll buy you a pair of reading glasses and ship them overnight so that you can read more and report!:lol:

I have 4 sets of reading glasses and they are never where I need them!

 

I just wanted to say that I have the workbooks and the vocabulary one and they look great. I was thinking of using this as one-on-one. It is basically the script. However, I'm so afraid of missing something that I had contemplated purchasing the videos when I first bought. A few months ago. At that time, I didn't know anyone who had purchased them and didn't want to spend the money unnecessarily.

 

My son did very well with the beginning of describing a picture. Now we have to go into the real part of the program and start word imaging, etc.

I'm afraid of not doing this basic part well enough.

I keep thinking I should watch the videos just to know what to do if it doesn't go smoothly.

 

If you are looking to do this program, I think the workbooks and the vocabulary one are worth it.

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Yes, they came last week. I've watched the first 2 videos and read the first 2 chapters of the manual. I LOVE the graded workbooks. They seem very open & go. It's all there, you don't need anything else to go with the workbooks. The kit came in a large trunk. No wonder it cost so much to ship. 40 lbs worth of material. I haven't implemented any of it yet, apart from some of the primer material. In the manual they talk about V/V being a follow-up to Lips, which I really didn't know. But if one was to go ahead with V/V without Lips, that we should start working on picturing things in this sense:

(this is not a direct quote, I'm just ad-libbing)

"This doll is riding the horse. If the doll falls off the horse, what do you picture will happen?"

child may answer "she'll fall on her head"

if child doesn't answer, we can say "I picture the doll falling on her head. Let's see what will happen." Then have the doll fall.

"Wow, did you see that? What we pictured happened."

Incorporating this "picturing" into our playtime will supposedly prep us for V/V. That's about all I have now, but I'm sure I'll have more to add as we get into it.

Can I just say that I love the kit though? *imagining an affirmative response* Okay, I LOVE the kit! I love it love it love it! I open that trunk and see the treasures inside and I just know it's going to be worth every penny. It's just what my son needs. :D

 

ETA: when I find my reading glasses things will speed along. For now I can only read a few paragraphs before I feel like I'm going to chuck my cookies!

I'm glad you are updating us about your purchases!

 

FYI, LiPS is the a program to teach phonemic awareness and de-coding skills. From previous posts, it didn't sound like your child needed it, but many children with reading comprehension problems do. If a child reads words inaccurately, (or if reading depends on pictures in the book to guess the words correctly), then his comprehension or "mental pictures of the reading" will be affected. Basically, accurate de-coding is a first step towards reading comprehension. Any underlying problems with basic de-coding should be addressed first.

 

Here's a real life illustration of that from our breakfast table. My son was reading the orange juice yesterday. He started telling me about how the container was designed so you didn't have to pull the lid. He knew this because the orange juice was "pull free". :glare: "Honey, what's the last letter of that word? Can you sound that out?" "P --- p-u-l-p. Pulp." "Yes honey, pulp, not pull. The orange juice is pulp-free. Do you know what pulp is?" "No." We then went on to have a little vocabulary lesson, after our little morning phonics lessons.

 

My son pictures as he reads, and even if he fails to read correctly or know the meaning of the word, that doesn't stop him from picturing. It just stops him from getting the right picture.

 

We're doing IC to help put the right words to all the pictures in his head. The problem can goes either way--words to pictures, or pictures to words. The IC program spends time developing the earlier steps of the v/v program. Is there much scripting in the earlier parts of the v/v program on their newer books? That's where my 9 yo needs work the most. Once he gets his de-coding skills down and builds his vocabulary (and neurons) further along to correctly link the right words to all those pictures he has filed in his head, my 9 yo son's reading comprehension will probably be fine.

 

I have the old manual and bought the Imagine That! stories for my 5th grader last year. The old manual doesn't have nearly that kind of scripting, and the Imagine That book didn't walk him through all the steps that way. Those v/v workbooks you linked look great! It's probably good that I didn't find those workbooks last year because my children need do need those earlier stages of simply linking single words to the correct picture, and single picture to the correct word. As great as those workbooks look, I encourage parents not to skip or rush through the earlier stages!

 

(I'm writing that in bold for me. I need to take my own advice. I must resist buying those workbooks!!!! He's not ready for them yet. I know that, but I want him to be ready! One day he will be, but it's not today.)

Edited by merry gardens
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Yes, I find it very interesting too, because much of the material IS scripted in V/V. (see link and click on the enlarged samples for each individual product, not groupings of products.) The V/V Stories Book 1,2 and 3 are all scripted. The easel books are all scripted. The graded workbooks are all scripted. There's no scripting with the rewards (Magic Rocks) or the Student Progress Record. You don't need those scripted anyway. The manual (and videos) show how to use the felts. There's nothing left, really. But, then again, I've never seen IC, so I don't have anything to compare it to. But honestly, I find it all scripted well enough to suit any parent who can use a regular curriculum.

This is sooo weird because someone posted last night, and that was my response to them. Now their post is gone. Very weird.

 

Somewhere online, as I was doing reading about this, I came across the comment from a parent that the people working with her dc at the LMB centers were COLLEGE KIDS who had received a brief amount of training. So surely we can do this.

:iagree: There's no magic formula. Surely we can!

 

Karyn, we'll buy you a pair of reading glasses and ship them overnight so that you can read more and report!

I have 4 sets of reading glasses and they are never where I need them!

 

Oh, please do! :lol: I've also lost my marbles, so if you have any of those around...

 

I just wanted to say that I have the workbooks and the vocabulary one and they look great. I was thinking of using this as one-on-one. It is basically the script. However, I'm so afraid of missing something that I had contemplated purchasing the videos when I first bought. A few months ago. At that time, I didn't know anyone who had purchased them and didn't want to spend the money unnecessarily.

I understand that (often immobilizing) fear.

 

My son did very well with the beginning of describing a picture. Now we have to go into the real part of the program and start word imaging, etc.

I'm afraid of not doing this basic part well enough.

I keep thinking I should watch the videos just to know what to do if it doesn't go smoothly.

If it doesn't go smoothly (ie: they don't know how to respond) then offer choices of what to say or ask leading questions. It is a process, and they won't get it right away, but the goal is to help them move forward, just like any other program.

 

If you are looking to do this program, I think the workbooks and the vocabulary one are worth it.

 

I'm glad you are updating us about your purchases!

 

FYI, LiPS is the a program to teach phonemic awareness and de-coding skills. From previous posts, it didn't sound like your child needed it, but many children with reading comprehension problems do. If a child reads words inaccurately, (or if reading depends on pictures in the book to guess the words correctly), then his comprehension or "mental pictures of the reading" will be affected. Basically, accurate de-coding is a first step towards reading comprehension. Any underlying problems with basic de-coding should be addressed first.

Yes, my boy does not have any de-coding issues whatsoever. But he is hyperlexic and has severe autism. At the age of 2 he wrote "McNeil's Aerodynamic Machinery" and asked me to draw it. :confused: At the age of 3 he was reading my dh's tax manuals, but he can't look at a simple 1 sentence picture book and answer a simple question about what he read. He reads beautifully but cannot understand what he is reading. So yes, I agree with you that he doesn't need de-coding help, but even getting him familiar with the words "picturing" or even all the questions like "what, movement, size, background, shape, sound, etc." So although I don't think we need Lips, I do think a kid like mine needs a solid understanding of those words before moving on into V/V.

 

Here's a real life illustration of that from our breakfast table. My son was reading the orange juice yesterday. He started telling me about how the container was designed so you didn't have to pull the lid. He knew this because the orange juice was "pull free". "Honey, what's the last letter of that word? Can you sound that out?" "P --- p-u-l-p. Pulp." "Yes honey, pulp, not pull. The orange juice is pulp-free. Do you know what pulp is?" "No." We then went on to have a little vocabulary lesson, after our little morning phonics lessons.

 

My son pictures as he reads, and even if he fails to read correctly or know the meaning of the word, that doesn't stop him from picturing. It just stops him from getting the right picture.

Gotcha!

 

We're doing IC to help put the right words to all the pictures in his head. The problem can goes either way--words to pictures, or pictures to words. The IC program spends time developing the earlier steps of the v/v program. Is there much scripting in the earlier parts of the v/v program on their newer books? That's where my 9 yo needs work the most. Once he gets his de-coding skills down and builds his vocabulary (and neurons) further along to correctly link the right words to all those pictures he has filed in his head, my 9 yo son's reading comprehension will probably be fine.

Sorry, I'm not understanding your question. I'm not awake aparently.

 

I have the old manual and bought the Imagine That! stories for my 5th grader last year. The old manual doesn't have nearly that kind of scripting, and the Imagine That book didn't walk him through all the steps that way. Those v/v workbooks you linked look great! It's probably good that I didn't find those workbooks last year because my children need do need those earlier stages of simply linking single words to the correct picture, and single picture to the correct word. As great as those workbooks look, I encourage parents not to skip or rush through the earlier stages!

Absolutely, it really depends on the kid and looking at the samples and knowing if your dc is ready, just like a math program. My own advice is that if you're known for jumping the gun and buying things prematurely without enough research, then don't spring forth the money for this program until you really know it's what your dc need.

(I'm writing that in bold for me. I need to take my own advice. I must resist buying those workbooks!!!! He's not ready for them yet. I know that, but I want him to be ready! One day he will be, but it's not today.)

Exactly! Kudos for you for knowing that he's not ready yet. However, resistance is futile. :D Just kidding. I've just always wanted to type that. :lol:

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Could we discuss more this subtlety Merry brought up? I'm not sure I'm clear on all the differences.

 

-V/V workbooks-- hit sentence, multi-sentence, paragraph, and multi-paragraph, with one level per book.

-Imagine That! Stories-- use single paragraph stories but can be broken down to hit smaller steps by user (not scripted for the smaller steps). One level per book.

-Imagine That! Giant books--go from multi-sentence to multi-paragraph with scripting for single sentence breakdown on every one. Also includes picture book to help imagery.

-V/V Stories-- Multiple levels in one book, less questions than Imagine That! Stories.

 

In other words, while all these materials are great, Merry is exactly RIGHT that none of them are starting at the BEGINNING with making word imagery automatic! So is the assumption you'll get the V/V kit to develop that level? As much as I'd like to rush, I think going from being *able* to do word visualization to doing it *automatically* might take some time and be something that is more readily accomplished by working on it alone, rather than jumping to the sentences. Is that where you're going with this, Merry?

 

So what helps does the LMB stuff give at the word imagery level? My visualization is so poor, haha, I've had all these workbook options mussed up in my mind! Couldn't sort them out at all. I definitely think Merry's point has merit. Or to put it another way, it makes you wonder how much more readily or comfortably the upper levels of skills would come if you spent adequate time developing automaticity at the word level. Is word level imagery automaticity the GOAL? What does V/V or IC say about how you're to know when to move from one stage to the next?

 

Yes, I ask a lot of questions. But sometimes when I don't know, others don't either. :)

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Could we discuss more this subtlety Merry brought up? I'm not sure I'm clear on all the differences.

 

-V/V workbooks-- hit sentence, multi-sentence, paragraph, and multi-paragraph, with one level per book.

-Imagine That! Stories-- use single paragraph stories but can be broken down to hit smaller steps by user (not scripted for the smaller steps). One level per book.

-Imagine That! Giant books--go from multi-sentence to multi-paragraph with scripting for single sentence breakdown on every one. Also includes picture book to help imagery.

-V/V Stories-- Multiple levels in one book, less questions than Imagine That! Stories.

 

In other words, while all these materials are great, Merry is exactly RIGHT that none of them are starting at the BEGINNING with making word imagery automatic! So is the assumption you'll get the V/V kit to develop that level? As much as I'd like to rush, I think going from being *able* to do word visualization to doing it *automatically* might take some time and be something that is more readily accomplished by working on it alone, rather than jumping to the sentences. Is that where you're going with this, Merry?

 

So what helps does the LMB stuff give at the word imagery level? My visualization is so poor, haha, I've had all these workbook options mussed up in my mind! Couldn't sort them out at all. I definitely think Merry's point has merit. Or to put it another way, it makes you wonder how much more readily or comfortably the upper levels of skills would come if you spent adequate time developing automaticity at the word level. Is word level imagery automaticity the GOAL? What does V/V or IC say about how you're to know when to move from one stage to the next?

 

Yes, I ask a lot of questions. But sometimes when I don't know, others don't either. :)

 

Oh, absolutely it has merit! My apologies if it came across that it doesn't. ;) Let's see... here are the steps of the V/V program:

1) The Climate 2) Picture to Picture 3) Word Imaging 4) Single Sentence Imaging 5) Sentence by Sentence Imaging 6) Senetence by Sentence Imaging with Higher Order Thinking (HOT) 7) Multiple Sentence Imaging with HOT 8) Whole Paragraph Imaging with HOT 9) Paragraph by Paragraph Imaging with HOT 10) Page Imaging with HOT.

 

The purpose of the Picture to Picture step is for the student not to visualize, but to verbalize. It *is* the first real step. They study a picture and then describe it without making a mental picture. The teacher can't see the picture and the student describes it in order for the teacher to picture it. The teacher asks questions in order to get the child to describe the picture (there are plenty of examples in the manual and videos.) That's the whole goal of Picture to Picture step. The manual does detail the pacing of each step and tells you what to look for before moving on. It also discusses that there is usually overlap of the steps but it does tell you how you know it is time to move on. I read somewhere in the manual that this step is necessary because if a student can't visualize, then we're not at all sure if it's because they can't visualize OR they can't verbalize. This step ascertains this for us. It is a vital step in the process, which is what Merry was saying. All I was saying is that I'm sure there's a chunk of kids out there that can benefit from the workbooks if they're more advanced but just struggling a little bit; perhaps they need a quick remedial approach, and to those kids, the workbooks would suffice.

 

Anyhow, to accomplish this goal, there is a scripted Picture to Picture book. One does not need to purchase the whole kit in order to purchase any of the items included in the kit. If one goes through this book and still needs more, there is a folder of looseleaf pictures available without the prompts, but honestly, by that point the teacher is familiar enough with this step that s/he can find suitable pictures on their own. However, these folder pictures are also used in the next step.

 

The next step, the Word Imaging step, is when a metal representation is formed for a word; so here they are learning to visualize a word and describe it to the teacher. It is similar to the previous step, but this time the teacher's questions are formed in such a way as to trigger the child's imagination. Again, many examples are offered. I really can't get more into it, because their descriptions are so precise that I fear I may break a copyright. Suffice it to say that this step is heavily dependant on appropriate questions. Along with the previously mentioned folder of pictures, there is Word Imaging Book, which is also well scripted.

 

I'm not sure if this was helpful at all, I'm just looking through the stuff now in order to hopefully answer some of the questions about the first steps of the program and it's goals.

 

I'm all for chatting about this, it's helping me discover the program more fully. :D I'm not sure about the differences between the older manual and this newer one, but this one has plenty of scripts and illustrations (as in drawings) of sample lessons.

Edited by specialmama
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Karyn -

 

Can you list exactly what you bought? How did you decide what to buy? I was looking at the workbooks you linked and was so surprised to see that they were scripted (though I'd like them even better if they also scripted the answer the child was supposed to give). I have owned a few of their workbooks in the past and they weren't scripted.

 

My son did 6 or 8 weeks at LMB when he was 5 and I'd love for him to do a refresher, but haven't felt like I could implement the program at home and we can't afford to go back to a center. You are making me think maybe I could do this.

 

I am also thinking my son would benefit from Seeing Stars, so that's another reason why I'm wondering how you decided what to buy.

 

Thanks!

Lisa

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Karyn -

 

Can you list exactly what you bought? How did you decide what to buy? I was looking at the workbooks you linked and was so surprised to see that they were scripted (though I'd like them even better if they also scripted the answer the child was supposed to give). I have owned a few of their workbooks in the past and they weren't scripted.

 

My son did 6 or 8 weeks at LMB when he was 5 and I'd love for him to do a refresher, but haven't felt like I could implement the program at home and we can't afford to go back to a center. You are making me think maybe I could do this.

 

I am also thinking my son would benefit from Seeing Stars, so that's another reason why I'm wondering how you decided what to buy.

 

Thanks!

Lisa

 

Hi Lisa, well I think you just solved the mystery as to why so many think V/V is not scripted! I just looked at all the dates and everything has been updated (copywrite 2006-2008) from older editions. I suppose they heard a lot of feedback and wanted to stay competitive with IC. Makes sense!

 

I ordered the V/V kit, all the grade 2 and 3 workbooks and all of the DVDs. I chose to order these because the descriptions and reviews (here and other websites) seemed to tackle exactly what my son needed. He has no problems de-coding, so I made my choices based on his deficit: comprehension. I'm sure many of the materials in the kit will not be used for a few years, but that's okay. Slow and steady progress is what I'm after.

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Hi Lisa, well I think you just solved the mystery as to why so many think V/V is not scripted! I just looked at all the dates and everything has been updated (copywrite 2006-2008) from older editions. I suppose they heard a lot of feedback and wanted to stay competitive with IC. Makes sense!

 

I ordered the V/V kit, all the grade 2 and 3 workbooks and all of the DVDs. I chose to order these because the descriptions and reviews (here and other websites) seemed to tackle exactly what my son needed. He has no problems de-coding, so I made my choices based on his deficit: comprehension. I'm sure many of the materials in the kit will not be used for a few years, but that's okay. Slow and steady progress is what I'm after.

 

Thanks, Karyn! I think it's great that they've updated them. When I received the workbooks I had purchased, I just didn't know what to do with them even though I'd watched some of my son's sessions at LMB. He was really young and they did a lot of picture to picture with him, so they didn't really use the workbooks much.

 

Lisa

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