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Spelling suggestions and other issues


parias1126
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I started AAS level 1 with my dd at the beginning of this year. She is repeating 2nd this year because she was struggling with Math, Reading and Spelling. I am going to continue doing AAS with her because I think it is a very solid program. I have cut it down to once/twice a week though. It is doing nothing but frustrating her, making her mad and causing tears. She is having a lot of trouble retaining the rules in each lesson. She has the phonograms down, but can't seem to remember the "why's" to the spelling of the words. Last week we learned that we use "ck" after a short vowel. We went over it for two days last week. Today, she can't remember the rule. The rules she does remember, she doesn't apply them when spelling. She can spell as long as it is a four-letter word. Anything more then that, she really really struggles.

 

I am taking her to the public school tomorrow morning to have her evaluated and really not sure what will happen after that. I don't want to put her in public school, and have always been against it for her, but she is just not doing well at home. She is not moving forward in Math. We are using CLE and she is pretty much at a stand still in the 2nd grade books. We have gone over everyday 2 cups = 1 pint and 4 cups = 1 quart, there are 24 hours in 1 day, there are 60 minutes in one hour, 12 inches in 1 foot, etc etc., and she does not retain it EVER. It is very very frustrating for me and not so much frustrating that she doesn't retain information, but more frustrating to me because I see the frustration in her. She has struggled immensely with reading and she just doesn't want to read (even though I encourage it everyday).

 

Anyway, the public school is testing her for me in the morning to see what grade level she is actually functioning at and she may be getting dropped off at the public school a couple times a week for extra help while still being homeschooled. They, of course, are trying to push me into registering her which I am not fond of and really do not want to, but we will see what happens in the near future. It is too soon to tell.

 

I really need a spelling program that is great for a child struggling with spelling. I am going to keep at AAS until we finish Level 1 and then move on to Level 2 (which I already have), but I need something she can do on a daily basis that also has spelling rules and not just a bunch of words and busy work. We tried SWO and that was a complete flop as it just felt like busy work to her and she was again frustrated.

 

Well, this post has gotten very long-winded and I am sorry, but I really am in need of some suggestions. I have homeschooled for 9 years, but didn't start from the beginning before. I started my oldest when she was already in third grade and she just graduated and is off to the community college here soon. I thought it was rough with her, she has a lot of the same issues, but not to this extent (not nearly). I am really getting worried!

 

I guess a great spelling program would help to use along with AAS, but any other suggestions are welcome.

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I feel your pain. :grouphug:

 

But please take everything that public schools says with a truckload of salt. It is in the school's best interest, not your dd's, for her to enroll there. Just keep that in mind.

 

I don't know about AAS, but with Spalding (and AAS is a Spalding spin-off), children aren't expected to remember something like using ck after a vowel after just a week. (I teach ck that way: "/k/ used after a single vowel that doesn't say its name," all in one breath.) Any time a word illustrates one of the rules, we just mark it, discuss it, and move on. Repeated usage is what really helps cement...well, anything. I would expect a child her age to be fuzzy on things like that in writing other than spelling words.

 

So my short answer would be "Spalding" instead of AAS. As far as using another product in addition to AAS (or Spalding), that can be confusing for a child because Spalding and its spin-offs teach spelling differently than the more traditional methods.

 

IMHO, it might be more beneficial for your dd to focus on spelling/reading--just using AAS (or Spalding)--and not worrying about writing (IOW, no WWE1, GWG2, ETC). I also think it would be better for you not to pressure your dd to read on her own at this time.

 

As far as her arithmetic skills, maybe it would be better to put CLE away and let her use Cuisnenaire rods for awhile. Or maybe try this: no formal math before 3rd grade.

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May I offer a completely different suggestion? Back off doing school in any way shape or form that resembles what you are currently doing. It very well could be that she does have some learning disabilities OR it could be that she is so frustrated that she is incapable of actually learning in the current environment. :grouphug:

 

Some of the things you have listed (like pt/qt/ft/in, etc) while important in the long run just are not hills to die on in 2nd grade. I have had kids that could not for the life of them memorize the days of the week or the months of the yr in 2nd grade. Know what? They all know them now. ;)

 

I would suggest not having her doing any independent spelling and focus on copywork for a few months to allow her to de-stress. Then, I would use the copywork to sit and discuss in a snuggly, re-affirming way what different phonics rules she can find in her copywork. If she can't find them on her own, state the rule and then let her find the correct word, etc. Do it in such a way that she will have success and very little chance of failure.

 

For math, I would get a balance beam or cuisenaire rods or money, etc and play math games with basic math facts. One of my kids favorites is the race to 100 and back down to 0 game. Simply divide a piece of paper into 3 columns (1 for each of you). Take turns rolling a die adding your numbers up to 100 and then subtracting down to 0 and whoever gets there first wins. For kids that are struggling, use money or rods for the visual of the adding/subtracting.

 

For reading, I would find books that are slightly below her reading level. I would sit with her and each of you take turns reading a page for about 15 mins/day. After a few books that are slightly below level, pick a book at level, then one slightly below, followed by one slightly above, etc.

 

I would also spend some time doing some really fun projects. If you are into lap books, etc you could do a Christmas one. If not, try something like a FIAR approach to some picture books. Maybe she could illustrate a book to go along with her copywork.

 

Sometimes frustration is a diabolical cycle that absolutely destroys all self-confidence and the ability to learn anything. Stepping back to a level of pure success and making things light and fun can allow them to re-group mentally.

 

If after a few months of an alternative approach shows no signs of improvement, then maybe there is something more going on. But, based on what you have written, I don't think you will have an accurate way of assessing that currently. :grouphug:

 

FWIW......Apples and Pears spelling by Sound Foundations might be what you are looking for for in the future.

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(((Hugs))) I'm sorry that you and your daughter are having a hard time. You know, instead of adding on another curriculum, I think I'd modify some strategies and try some different ideas instead. You may have already tried some of these, but maybe you'll find some new or helpful thoughts.

 

First, you said you are only doing spelling once or twice a week. I'm sure that's because she was getting so frustrated. However, for kids who struggle, doing it less often probably is going to make remembering any rules that much harder.

 

Instead, find a way to make things more playful--turn things into a game. We used do lots of playing with words--make bet and change it into bit, and things like that. Use the lessons as a jumping off place and play with the words more.

 

Start and end each lesson by doing something that your dd can succeed at. Begin with success, work on something harder, and then end with success. Never stop just when your dd has failed. Cycle back to something that you know she can do. Try to watch the signs and cycle back before the tears come.

 

When you are working on a concept, you can give extra letter tile demonstrations. After you demonstrate it, have your dd demonstrate it. Praise her when she shows a concept correctly, and encourage her when she isn't getting it.

 

You can also incorporate some tactile approaches and other activities to make things more memorable.

 

Now for the "ck" rule specifically--you mentioned that you went over the "ck" after a short vowel two days last week, and today your daughter couldn't remember the rule. That is 100% perfectly normal. Don't expect her to remember it after two presentations. Keep demonstrating the rule -- don't ask her to parrot it back until she completely understands it and has seen multiple demonstrations. If she doesn't get it the next day, that's ok, just show her again, and then see if she can do it along with you with the tiles, with tactile methods, or with other things that make it memorable.

 

When my son was in 1st and 2nd grade, I used to have him make "word rockets" because that appealed to him. Each word would "blast off" after he made it. Later on he made exploding words--every word made with tiles had to blow up. My daughter used to have to make pictures with every word, or tell a story. These kinds of things can take up lesson time and don't appeal to a busy mom's desire to "get on with it," but some kids really just need to play with making words and need the freedom to see the words in a fun way.

 

Another way you could get creative--Get out rubber stamps. Stamp out the first part of the word "milk" (MIL_) and have your daughter help you figure out whether to finish the word with K or CK. If she's not sure what to do, re-read the rule and then look together for the letter right before the blank. Let her stamp the final letter.

 

Do you have a set limit on the time (or number of words) that you spend on a particular lesson? If not, try making it shorter than what you do now (usually 15 or 20 minutes is plenty, and you don't need to complete a step in one day--let the steps take as long as needed. If she can't do that long, start with 5 or 10 minutes, or just a few words, etc...) Quit before there are tears.

 

Back to the K/CK example: tell your daughter upfront that you will do five words together (or ten words, whatever you feel is her limit), and then you will quit for the day. Make sure that you stick with your promise. Every week (or whenever you feel it is appropriate), increase the amount of time or the number of words you are doing. Start small and expect to increase over time.

 

I wouldn't worry about your daughter not being able to spell words larger than four letters at this point. Remember that AAS hasn't even covered longer words at this point. Your daughter hasn't been given the tools she needs yet -- don't jump ahead. I know, we moms look at our child's age or grade and freak out over what they can or can't do sometimes! But really...let her move through this at her pace, incrementally, step by step. She'll get there.

 

An idea for the math facts -- don't keep drilling. Get out actual pints and gallons and play in the kitchen sink. Make charts, record measurements. Play with clocks. Make things REAL. Appeal to as many senses as possible.

 

Plan for success. At the end of the day, think to yourself, "How else could I present this same information?" If your dd just couldn't remember a flashcard 3+4=7, what can you do to make it memorable tomorrow? Make it the "fact of the day" and do what it takes to make it stick. My kids used to love word problems that involved food. Especially if it involved taking my food, LOL! I would say things like, "Let's say that you eat 3 cookies, and then you eat 4 of MY cookies. How many cookies did you eat all together?" For some reason if it involved cookies or pizza, math became funny and they can do it. Edible math manipulatives helped here too--I'd get out cheerios or raisins or chocolate chips or peanuts, do the math & then let them eat them for a snack.

 

Have you done any reading on OG methods and alternative teaching methods that you yourself can learn and incoporate? Schools have to deal with so many kids, they can't become experts on all of them--but you are already an expert on your dd. You know some things that don't work, and you can learn some new ideas that WILL work. If your daughter cries one day, think through that night, "how else can I get this teaching point across?" and try again the next day.

 

It's not always easy, especially with a child who struggles, but you'll both get there. The one on one attention that you are giving her is a real gift. Don't let the idea that she's "behind" put fear in you or make the decisions for you. Grade levels are artificial standards and really aren't helpful in determining how to help a child learn and grow. They lump all kids together--and kids are individuals. They all learn at a different pace. For outside help, I think an Orton-Gillingham tutor or a multi-sensory language reading tutor would be more helpful than ps.

 

I started AAS when my kids were in 3rd and 5th grades, and I know what it's like to feel that fear that they're behind! My oldest had been so confused by a previous spelling program we tried that he stopped spelling words like "ask" correctly--he started spelling it "aic," because he thought the C could make both the /s/ and the /k/ sounds at the same time and that words sometimes threw in vowels "just because." He spelled the word "from" "form" routinely.

 

I knew inside was a bright child that had some learning glitches and just didn't understand how our language works, despite my previously teaching him some of these things. So...we started over. We started with things he could be successful at and gradually worked up. When either of my kids struggled, I went back to easier things, let them feel success again, and then slowly worked in the harder topics again. I read up on dyslexia and teaching kids with special needs, and learned to speak more slowly, use more repetition, and incorporate more senses.

 

Well, I hope this isn't too long and that something in here will be helpful for you.

 

Hang in there! Merry :-)

Edited by MerryAtHope
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May I offer a completely different suggestion? Back off doing school in any way shape or form that resembles what you are currently doing. It very well could be that she does have some learning disabilities OR it could be that she is so frustrated that she is incapable of actually learning in the current environment. :grouphug:

 

Some of the things you have listed (like pt/qt/ft/in, etc) while important in the long run just are not hills to die on in 2nd grade. I have had kids that could not for the life of them memorize the days of the week or the months of the yr in 2nd grade. Know what? They all know them now. ;)

 

I would suggest not having her doing any independent spelling and focus on copywork for a few months to allow her to de-stress. Then, I would use the copywork to sit and discuss in a snuggly, re-affirming way what different phonics rules she can find in her copywork. If she can't find them on her own, state the rule and then let her find the correct word, etc. Do it in such a way that she will have success and very little chance of failure.

 

For math, I would get a balance beam or cuisenaire rods or money, etc and play math games with basic math facts. One of my kids favorites is the race to 100 and back down to 0 game. Simply divide a piece of paper into 3 columns (1 for each of you). Take turns rolling a die adding your numbers up to 100 and then subtracting down to 0 and whoever gets there first wins. For kids that are struggling, use money or rods for the visual of the adding/subtracting.

 

For reading, I would find books that are slightly below her reading level. I would sit with her and each of you take turns reading a page for about 15 mins/day. After a few books that are slightly below level, pick a book at level, then one slightly below, followed by one slightly above, etc.

 

I would also spend some time doing some really fun projects. If you are into lap books, etc you could do a Christmas one. If not, try something like a FIAR approach to some picture books. Maybe she could illustrate a book to go along with her copywork.

 

Sometimes frustration is a diabolical cycle that absolutely destroys all self-confidence and the ability to learn anything. Stepping back to a level of pure success and making things light and fun can allow them to re-group mentally.

 

If after a few months of an alternative approach shows no signs of improvement, then maybe there is something more going on. But, based on what you have written, I don't think you will have an accurate way of assessing that currently. :grouphug:

 

FWIW......Apples and Pears spelling by Sound Foundations might be what you are looking for for in the future.

:bigear::bigear: These are words of wisdom . . . .I'd absolutely want to follow this advice! :bigear::bigear:

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(((Hugs))) I'm sorry that you and your daughter are having a hard time. You know, instead of adding on another curriculum, I think I'd modify some strategies and try some different ideas instead. You may have already tried some of these, but maybe you'll find some new or helpful thoughts.

 

First, you said you are only doing spelling once or twice a week. I'm sure that's because she was getting so frustrated. However, for kids who struggle, doing it less often probably is going to make remembering any rules that much harder.

 

Instead, find a way to make things more playful--turn things into a game. We used do lots of playing with words--make bet and change it into bit, and things like that. Use the lessons as a jumping off place and play with the words more.

 

Start and end each lesson by doing something that your dd can succeed at. Begin with success, work on something harder, and then end with success. Never stop just when your dd has failed. Cycle back to something that you know she can do. Try to watch the signs and cycle back before the tears come.

 

When you are working on a concept, you can give extra letter tile demonstrations. After you demonstrate it, have your dd demonstrate it. Praise her when she shows a concept correctly, and encourage her when she isn't getting it.

 

You can also incorporate some tactile approaches and other activities to make things more memorable.

 

Now for the "ck" rule specifically--you mentioned that you went over the "ck" after a short vowel two days last week, and today your daughter couldn't remember the rule. That is 100% perfectly normal. Don't expect her to remember it after two presentations. Keep demonstrating the rule -- don't ask her to parrot it back until she completely understands it and has seen multiple demonstrations. If she doesn't get it the next day, that's ok, just show her again, and then see if she can do it along with you with the tiles, with tactile methods, or with other things that make it memorable.

 

When my son was in 1st and 2nd grade, I used to have him make "word rockets" because that appealed to him. Each word would "blast off" after he made it. Later on he made exploding words--every word made with tiles had to blow up. My daughter used to have to make pictures with every word, or tell a story. These kinds of things can take up lesson time and don't appeal to a busy mom's desire to "get on with it," but some kids really just need to play with making words and need the freedom to see the words in a fun way.

 

Another way you could get creative--Get out rubber stamps. Stamp out the first part of the word "milk" (MIL_) and have your daughter help you figure out whether to finish the word with K or CK. If she's not sure what to do, re-read the rule and then look together for the letter right before the blank. Let her stamp the final letter.

 

Do you have a set limit on the time (or number of words) that you spend on a particular lesson? If not, try making it shorter than what you do now (usually 15 or 20 minutes is plenty, and you don't need to complete a step in one day--let the steps take as long as needed. If she can't do that long, start with 5 or 10 minutes, or just a few words, etc...) Quit before there are tears.

 

Back to the K/CK example: tell your daughter upfront that you will do five words together (or ten words, whatever you feel is her limit), and then you will quit for the day. Make sure that you stick with your promise. Every week (or whenever you feel it is appropriate), increase the amount of time or the number of words you are doing. Start small and expect to increase over time.

 

I wouldn't worry about your daughter not being able to spell words larger than four letters at this point. Remember that AAS hasn't even covered longer words at this point. Your daughter hasn't been given the tools she needs yet -- don't jump ahead. I know, we moms look at our child's age or grade and freak out over what they can or can't do sometimes! But really...let her move through this at her pace, incrementally, step by step. She'll get there.

 

An idea for the math facts -- don't keep drilling. Get out actual pints and gallons and play in the kitchen sink. Make charts, record measurements. Play with clocks. Make things REAL. Appeal to as many senses as possible.

 

Plan for success. At the end of the day, think to yourself, "How else could I present this same information?" If your dd just couldn't remember a flashcard 3+4=7, what can you do to make it memorable tomorrow? Make it the "fact of the day" and do what it takes to make it stick. My kids used to love word problems that involved food. Especially if it involved taking my food, LOL! I would say things like, "Let's say that you eat 3 cookies, and then you eat 4 of MY cookies. How many cookies did you eat all together?" For some reason if it involved cookies or pizza, math became funny and they can do it. Edible math manipulatives helped here too--I'd get out cheerios or raisins or chocolate chips or peanuts, do the math & then let them eat them for a snack.

 

Have you done any reading on OG methods and alternative teaching methods that you yourself can learn and incoporate? Schools have to deal with so many kids, they can't become experts on all of them--but you are already an expert on your dd. You know some things that don't work, and you can learn some new ideas that WILL work. If your daughter cries one day, think through that night, "how else can I get this teaching point across?" and try again the next day.

 

It's not always easy, especially with a child who struggles, but you'll both get there. The one on one attention that you are giving her is a real gift. Don't let the idea that she's "behind" put fear in you or make the decisions for you. Grade levels are artificial standards and really aren't helpful in determining how to help a child learn and grow. They lump all kids together--and kids are individuals. They all learn at a different pace. For outside help, I think an Orton-Gillingham tutor or a multi-sensory language reading tutor would be more helpful than ps.

 

I started AAS when my kids were in 3rd and 5th grades, and I know what it's like to feel that fear that they're behind! My oldest had been so confused by a previous spelling program we tried that he stopped spelling words like "ask" correctly--he started spelling it "aic," because he thought the C could make both the /s/ and the /k/ sounds at the same time and that words sometimes threw in vowels "just because." He spelled the word "from" "form" routinely.

 

I knew inside was a bright child that had some learning glitches and just didn't understand how our language works, despite my previously teaching him some of these things. So...we started over. We started with things he could be successful at and gradually worked up. When either of my kids struggled, I went back to easier things, let them feel success again, and then slowly worked in the harder topics again. I read up on dyslexia and teaching kids with special needs, and learned to speak more slowly, use more repetition, and incorporate more senses.

 

Well, I hope this isn't too long and that something in here will be helpful for you.

 

Hang in there! Merry :-)

:bigear::bigear: Merry is full of wisdom too! Wow. What wonderful ideas and counsel ladies. :001_smile:

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Is it important to learn the spelling rules?

 

English is my 3rd language and I have just learned it a few years ago . My spelling is better than my husband's (who is 100% American and w/college degree) . I have learned it just by reading&writing a lot .

 

Now, when I teach spelling rules to my kids , we all have difficulty remembering them .My children are above average spellers , I guess because we read , write , copywork , I dictate a lot but they still don't remember most of the spelling rules .

 

That said, it's great to take your dd for an evaluation . It seems she is a strong Visual Spatial Learner. If she is , learn as much as you can about VSL (there are a lot of great books too) and change the method of teaching for her. They learn in a different way.

 

For my VSL , CLE works great but I do use a lot of manipulatives and other extras . CLE's math chart is recommended to use , except for quizzes or tests. For pints and other meas. ,I sugest to use concrete materials and keep them by her desk for reference as long as she needs . Glue a sticker on them .

 

For spelling, try dictation (See Dictation day by day on google books) and/or Building Spelling Skills by CLP. I also like Adventures in phonics --I think this cheap workbook with their chart , made my dc be such great readers and spellers at a young age, even my VSL.

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Is it important to learn the spelling rules?

.

 

If you are not a natural speller, you can bet your go-go boots it is.

 

For my level of education, my spelling is terrible. I am now much better (I no longer "guess" badly, but instead rattle off the rule in my head) since doing SWR. I was not taught them when I was a kid (no phonics, just spelling lists).

 

That said, memorizing quarts and pints at 7? This is a 7 year old, right? Gosh, my son loves cooking with me, and we just measure out water for cooking pasta, and milk for doubled waffle recipes etc. It never occurred to me to belabor the point at 7. I think along the lines of number sense and word problems but I am one of those Singapore ditto-heads. Could your girl be so bored she is glazing over about memorization? My son gets more careless and sloppy the more drill there is. Throw in a new approach, or a story problem, and he sits up and the propeller on top of his beanie starts spinning.

 

My son, who is a modestly natural speller, doesn't know the rules either. He has been through them with the SWR flashcards, and if I see him heading towards a mistake I prompt him with the beginning of the rule and he stops, erases the errant letter, and corrects himself. Maybe I'm deluded, but it doesn't seem like that big a problem at 8. As long as he continues improving (but is it slow, man, slow). BTW, I tried AAS when everyone was raving about it and my son was bored silly with each list being so much alike. He glazed over. SWR was more work, but he was just so proud of himself learning all the numbering, and underlining. You know, I think of him as a natural speller, but maybe the SWR start (we did it 4-7) was what put him on that road.

 

7 is young. I'd try a rather different approach before I'd go even "more traditional".

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When practicing spelling words do them as a fill-in the blank letters. As you continue practicing make sure the blanks are only the letters that are causing problems. Students never seem to mind just fill-in a few letters rather than writing out the whole word. Using scrabble tiles to spelling out the word is also fun. If they are really struggling, give them just the letters that are to be used for each word. Have the child practice the spelling words in a tray of sand, salt or flour makes it more fun.

Reading is best taught using decoding word lists.

Math should be taught using a 'system method'. Regrouping, related facts, math ladder, magic nine for adding and subtracting. Multiplying and division is easily taught as a system. Eg., times 4 is a double plus a double; dividing by 8 cut the number in half three times.

 

Linda.

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My 9 year old is not a natural speller. We have tried everything, and it just does not seem to click for her. We finally decided to use dictation and the 1,000 most frequently spelled words as our list. It's the best decision I've made. The dictation works much better for my child because it isn't just a list of words (which she seems to be able to memorize well enough, but will continue to misspell in a sentence). We use & love Spelling Plus & Dictation Plus. It includes the spelling rules with each list & breaks the list down by grade level. I really like this curriculum because it constantly reuses words from previous lists in current dictation passages. I've noticed a huge improvement! I especially love that you only need to buy the books once. The Spelling Plus book covers grades 1-12 and the Dictation Plus book covers grades 1-6. The dictation book also includes a lot of additional information that is wonderful!!!!

 

Here's a link: http://www.susancanthony.com/books/sp.html

 

 

Susan

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Is it important to learn the spelling rules?

 

English is my 3rd language and I have just learned it a few years ago . My spelling is better than my husband's (who is 100% American and w/college degree) . I have learned it just by reading&writing a lot.

Some people are very visual and they *do* learn to spell by reading and writing. However, most people need to learn the rules, and it doesn't hurt the visual learners, either. :-)

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