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Transitioning to Logic Stage when new to Classical ed?

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Prior to our school year starting in July we were relaxed, ecclectic homeschoolers. My interest in classical ed peaked as more and more of my choices were aligned with classical homeschoolers' choices. I skimmed through the original WTM book years ago, reading relevant parts to my children's ages. I'm now reading the new edition of WTM. I've pretty much read all of it aside from the Rhetoric Stage, which I skimmed through. I plan to go back and read that section thoroughly now. My children are ds, who just turned 9 and is in 3rd grade, and dd, who is about to turn 11 and is in 5th grade, and a dd who is about to turn 3.


I decided to start dd in the grammar stage alongside ds so as to use the same materials for both of them and to assess where she is, as well as to not entirely skip anything important from the grammar stage she may not have picked up from our previous schooling choices. She is doing very well and I believe it is time to start transitioning her into the Logic stage so that she will be fully into it at the start of next school year.


She is very good at narrating, summarizing, and grammar. I'm going to start her on beginning outlining soon. We are doing Ancients this year. I plan to start a timeline with her as well, but I am thinking of waiting until next year with Middle Ages. This will mean our timeline will skip Ancients for now. I'm not sure if I want her to start outlining now in the middle of Ancients. Its seems better to have her practice her outlining skills on other materials, then begin outlining History with Middle Ages next year along with the timeline. I was thinking then when we come back round to the Ancients she can either stay in Logic stage and outline and timeline Ancients, or move into rhetoric and skip Logic stage for Ancients altogether. I guess it would be preferable to start the rhetoric stage then, so she will then have a full round of History in the Rhetoric stage. I could possibly incorporate finishing the timeline and outlining into that year?


Then the question as to when to start ds outlining? As well as should I go ahead and have him participate in the timeline now? Have her work on the timeline and let him peruse it at will? I know he isn't ready for outlining quite yet. He needs to polish his narrating and summarizing skills.


Any thoughts, ideas, or suggestions for materials?

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The approach to outlining suggested for 5th graders in the new WTM is very gentle, requiring the child to identify three main ideas from a short passage related to her study of history, with no sub points. If your dd 11 does narrations and summaries well, she may be ready to begin outlining this year. If it seems to difficult for her, you could wait until later in the year, or postpone it until next year. Based upon your description of her skills, my guess is that she'll do just fine with outlining. Practicing one level outlines for the rest of this year will probably provide adequate exposure for her to begin two level outlines next year; if not, have her continue to do one level outlines until she's ready for the next step. You can make the transition at any time during the year.


I also think it would be reasonable for her to begin the time line this year, if that's something you want her to do. We're doing ancients this year as well, and ds 11 doesn't have all that much written in his time line so far. If you start from wherever you are now, you could easily go back and add in a few major events as a review.


As for ds 9, based upon my experience with ds 8 who is also in 3rd grade this year, I'd say focus on narrations and other skills with him. Let him participate in the timeline if it's easy, and you want him to or if he wants to, but otherwise wait a couple of years and let him begin his timeline when he is ready.


If you decide to do one time line for both of them, for example a time line that hangs on the wall, he could add a date or a picture occasionally; if you do a notebook style time line, he might find it tedious, frustrating, meaningless, or all of the above :tongue_smilie: unless he's the kind of ds who really likes that sort of thing.


As for materials, almost everything we use for LA and history is published by PHP and I have been very pleased with their materials.



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If your concern is starting outlining in the middle of Ancients, I wouldn't let that stop me from starting now. I see outlining history and science as writing exercises. I'm not looking for a complete outline of all that we learn in history or science. In fact, I think SWB intends to rotate between outlining history and science so you wouldn't have a complete outline anyway. You get that continuity with the timeline. I'd go ahead make an Ancients time line and start where you are. At some point, she might want to go back and fill in the beginning part on her own. I know it can be hard to start in the middle, at least for me, but that's what I'd force myself to do. :001_huh:


When you come back to Ancients, I'd do it at whatever level she's ready for. If she's ready for rhetoric at that time, do it at that level.


Our kids ages are close. I have a 10yr old 5th grader (DS), 7 yr old 2nd grader (DS), and an about to turn 4yr old (DD).



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Thank you so much for the replies! :) I think I will dive in with her doing beginning outlining and have her start a timeline now, even though it is hard for my silly brain because 'it wouldn't be complete', lol. I'm sure the process and what will be gained from this starting point won't be diminished by starting in the middle.

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