Phonics Road v. AAS

[CourtneySue]

I'm trying to decide between these two curricula. Obviously, The Phonics Road is more than just a spelling program, but I'm impressed with how thorough it seems. Would you say that AAS is just as thorough? Has anyone used both? Any thoughts or suggestions would be great!

[CourtneySue]

bump

[lovinmomma]

IMHO, when you are trying to make a descision between PR and AAS you should also make sure you have thoroughly checked out all of the popular O-G spelling methods that way regret is a little less likely (or curriculum envy for that matter). So, have you checked out SWR (Spell to Write and Read) and WRTR (Writing Road to Reading) in addition to PR and AAS?

[mothergooseof4]

AAS is only phonics/spelling. It does have dictation and kids are to eventually start writing their own sentences.

 

PR is all inclusive. PR1 is phonics/spelling but starts grammar, literature analysis, writing, etc. in PR2. PR1 also covers the phonograms covered in AAS levels 1-3.

 

I like both, but they serve different purposes. For us, I need to advance their reading skills and like the AIO aspect, so we have recently switched from AAS to PR and the kids are already making progress in just 3 weeks. I loved the lay out and ease of use of AAS, but it wasn't moving quickly enough for us.

[CourtneySue]

Here's my situation: I currently own The Phonics Road that a friend who was planning to homeschool, but decided not to sold to me for $50. I had AAS that I was planning to use, but sold it thinking I was sold on PR. I own WRTR and liked it a lot, but it seemed a bit confusing to implement myself, although I did get a little booklet that breaks it down and makes it a lot simpler. I like almost everything about PR. I don't like the literary analysis because I think it's developmentally inappropriate. And I'm using the Getty-Dubay Italics program instead of the traditional Palmer. I do feel when I watch the DVDs that I'm getting an education myself and I love the way she does the spelling because she's so thorough, but is it worth spending the $$$$ on it if I'm not going to use it all. That's the part that I'm struggling with. Do you think AAS is as thorough?

 

Julie-I was reading your blog and noticed that you switched to AAS in March. Are you still happy with it?

 

Mothergooseofthree- I didn't know that about the phonograms. Do you know if more words are introduced, as well. Thanks.

[lovinmomma]

I do feel when I watch the DVDs that I'm getting an education myself and I love the way she does the spelling because she's so thorough, but is it worth spending the $$$$ on it if I'm not going to use it all.

 

I think that it is definately worth the $ if you need the videos. Definately. If not the videos from PR then I would suggest the new DVD from SWR iff you need the help of the DVDs. I've owned AAS, PR, SWR, and WRTR. Yes, I know.

 

Julie-I was reading your blog and noticed that you switched to AAS in March. Are you still happy with it?

 

I'm currently doing AAS with 1 child and SWR with my older child. I prefer the meatiness of SWR and the open-and-go of AAS. However, I feel confident teaching SWR/PR/AAS/WRTR. I've finally for sure ruled out PR, because it's too much hand holding for me and I don't need all of the elements of PR. I really love WTM writing, I use a different handwriting, etc.

 

 

P.S. Feel free to ask away any questions that you may have. I'm in no way an expert at all, but I'll help all that I can.

[abrightmom]

Courtney,

 

I am currently using both. I only have a minute to write. Check out the PR social group. There is a thread comparing PR and AAS. Here's a link to get you started: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=1058

 

I tend to agree with Julie's assessment . . . there is a lot of hand holding in PR and you have to WANT all that is there. You might really LOVE all of the elements. They ARE meaty (the literature studies in Level Three are rich!). I'm currently grappling through these issues. I want WTM style writing and I'm not willing to give that up. I don't know that I can afford the time required to do the literature studies when I want to focus on SWB's recs. in WTM. I LOVE PR's spelling (the word analysis/marking) but I also LOVE the open/go of AAS. AAS's presentation of the phonograms is more to my liking. I'm actually teaching PR to my 8 year old with AAS's phonogram presentation. I am using AAS with my 6 year old. The pacing is better for him (the words and dictation is easier and he needs that).

 

:001_smile:

[abrightmom]

I don't like the literary analysis because I think it's developmentally inappropriate. This is a significant part of The Phonics Road beginning with Level Two. If you don't want to use this portion then I think PR is too much for what you are wanting. And I'm using the Getty-Dubay Italics program instead of the traditional Palmer........Another aspect of PR that you don't want to use. Do you think AAS is as thorough? Absolutely!! What you don't have with AAS is the marking of the words BUT if that is important to you there are two considerations. 1) You have PR Level One, right? Watch it. Learn how to mark words. Use that when you teach spelling via AAS. 2) AAS uses the tiles. They are color coded. They also use tiles for syllable marking (They're called syllable tags.). I am not beyond Level Two so there may be more.

 

:001_smile::001_smile:

[johnandtinagilbert]

If you don't like the lit. then you won't want PR3, for sure. The 2nd half of the year begins using the lit for grammar study. Can I ask what you mean about developmentally inappropriate specifically?

[abrightmom]

If you don't like the lit. then you won't want PR3, for sure. The 2nd half of the year begins using the lit for grammar study. Can I ask what you mean about developmentally inappropriate specifically?

:D Good question to ask.

 

One tidbit I wanted to mention about the literature is that it is a PLATFORM for teaching skills (think application of spelling, writing, punctuation, reading, etc.). I think of the book being used (she picks winners! :D) as a TOOL for teaching reading, spelling, and writing skills. Level Three is very impressive in this aspect! I'm sure Level Four is as well.

[CourtneySue]

Tina and Katrina,

 

I do like the books she's chosen. But recently, I was listening to a lecture by SWB about using Great Books to teach history, etc., and she warned against doing literary analysis in the grammar stage because it's really a logic/rhetoric stage activity. She said that the problem with dissecting a book too much in the early years, when you are trying to cultivate a love of reading, is that the child may come to see books as puzzles to be solved and not something to enjoy. She also said that most kids after analyzing a book will most likely never want to see that book again. If those of you that have gone through PR2 and above haven't had that experience I would love to hear about how you think it's developmentally appropriate and hasn't had this effect on your children. Clearly, I haven't used it yet, so I'm sure you know better than I do how it's actually done.

 

Thanks for your responses!

[PeterPan]

Courtney, what do you mean by developmentally inappropriate? When I had PR (3 I think? I forget), I didn't find anything developmentally inappropriate. It was pretty typical for the grade, and the way everything got applied seemed very logical to me. If you have a dc who is on-level for all the components, it would be terrific. If you have a dc who is at very different levels for different aspects of LA, then it won't be a good fit.

 

AAS, which I'm using with my 11 yo right now, is totally different. If you like the dvd's of PR, you should just stay put. There are 30 programs out there you could like, truly. It makes more sense to use what you have, which you've already said you like, until it definitely no longer works. When it doesn't work, then you look for something else. When you buy PR, you're paying the bulk of the money for the dvd presentation, those teacher helps to you, the fact that the logs are all completed like that. Since that is part of what is making it click for you, you should stay put.

 

I like AAS a lot btw. You just haven't said anything negative about PR to give yourself a reason to switch. If money is tight, watch for the levels used.

[PeterPan]

What PR does with the books is pretty mild. It's more a way to get in more writing than anything. I think where SWB is going with her comments is more to the idea of taking a lit guide and slowing down (and making ponderous) a book that the dc could have read and enjoyed on his own just fine. Some lit guides have that habit. Even then, it's not so much a factor of the lit guide as whether that method at that moment is the right thing for the particular dc. My dd was reading through Swiss Family Robinson for pleasure in 2nd grade. Of course going through a 2nd grade book keyed to a lit guide wasn't going to be appropriate for her. There you would have had a mismatch between the amount of writing she was ready for (which would have fit her) and the reading level and thought process (which would have made the whole thing drag and killed her enjoyment of it). So SWB is right, but how that pans out depends on your mix of kid and materials. With the right level of book and the right way of implementing it, it wouldn't be so much of an issue.

 

It's not formulaic. PR, in entirety, is going to fit some kids really well and not others. You won't know till you try. Again, it's the dvd's you're paying for. You got a great deal on that used price. I would just plow forward till it stops working for you.

[CourtneySue]

Courtney,

 

I am currently using both. I only have a minute to write. Check out the PR social group. There is a thread comparing PR and AAS. Here's a link to get you started: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=1058

 

I tend to agree with Julie's assessment . . . there is a lot of hand holding in PR and you have to WANT all that is there. You might really LOVE all of the elements. They ARE meaty (the literature studies in Level Three are rich!). I'm currently grappling through these issues. I want WTM style writing and I'm not willing to give that up. I don't know that I can afford the time required to do the literature studies when I want to focus on SWB's recs. in WTM. I LOVE PR's spelling (the word analysis/marking) but I also LOVE the open/go of AAS. AAS's presentation of the phonograms is more to my liking. I'm actually teaching PR to my 8 year old with AAS's phonogram presentation. I am using AAS with my 6 year old. The pacing is better for him (the words and dictation is easier and he needs that).

 

:001_smile:

 

Katrina,

 

I feel like I could have written this. It's exactly how I feel. I also want the WTM/CM style writing. It's the word analysis/marking that draws me to PR and I'm trying to figure out if AAS does similar analysis. I read through the discussion you linked to, which was very helpful.

 

I have a close friend who works at one of the top private schools is Southern California and specializes in teaching reading and she was recently telling me that teaching segmenting is crucial for reading, which is something AAS incorporates. Although, I'm guessing this could be incorporated with PR as well.

 

Someone mentioned that AAS teaches "syllabification", but PR doesn't. Do you (or anyone else) know what this is and why it's important?

 

Thanks for the input.

[PeterPan]

Courtney, I don't think all the OG-type methods teach syllabification. Many kids intuit the patterns and don't need them listed out the way AAS does. You need to take your teacher-friend's comments in perspective. She said they need to be able to segment? Well duh, they'll be able to do that with ANY of the OG-spinoff programs. You can read extremely well without being able to accurately divide syllables (my dd is an example). The point is to learn to read well and spell well. Don't buy problems you don't have. ANY of the programs you're looking at will do a good job with the right kid, and they're SO similar it's not really worth sweating over. The differences are largely the teacher helps and the nuances of how they present the info to the kids. If the dvd's of PR make it do-able for *you* as the teacher, then that is your best program. I've used SWR, WRTR, HTTS, PR and am now doing AAS with dd. She's a hard case (again, don't buy problems you don't have!) and needs the nuances the tm of AAS gets into. I don't think all kids need that. Won't hurt them, but I'm saying other kids can spell just fine with PR or any program. The best way for you to chose at this stage is by the program that makes it easiest for *you* to teach.

[CourtneySue]

I think the main reason I'm rethinking my spelling curriculum is because I haven't started spelling, yet. And I would like to stick with whatever I start with, and I'm wondering if I'm going to want to spend the money on PR after I finish PR1. My DS is 5 1/2. We've been working on penmanship and reading so far and I'm planning to start spelling after the holidays. He's gotten very comfortable writing, so I thought I could start him on spelling soon. We have been using the phonograms for writing and I have incorporated a few extra sounds that AAS uses because I think it makes more sense. I am probably way over thinking this and I know they are both great curricula, but I do appreciate the input. Thank you so much.

[lovinmomma]

If the dvd's of PR make it do-able for *you* as the teacher, then that is your best program....

 

The best way for you to chose at this stage is by the program that makes it easiest for *you* to teach.

 

:iagree:

 

I think the main reason I'm rethinking my spelling curriculum is because I haven't started spelling, yet. And I would like to stick with whatever I start with, and I'm wondering if I'm going to want to spend the money on PR after I finish PR1. My DS is 5 1/2. We've been working on penmanship and reading so far and I'm planning to start spelling after the holidays. He's gotten very comfortable writing, so I thought I could start him on spelling soon. We have been using the phonograms for writing and I have incorporated a few extra sounds that AAS uses because I think it makes more sense. I am probably way over thinking this and I know they are both great curricula, but I do appreciate the input. Thank you so much.

 

I'm going to be real honest here. I bought so. many. different. curriculums, speeling programs, etc. before I ever even began teaching. Most people would probably chide me for that and laugh at my "rookie" mistakes, but I don't see it that way. Every. single. different thing that I bought taught me something. Now, I feel that I've learned so much more about how I like to teach and what I want my home to look like while learning by looking at all of those different programs. I'm one of those people that just has to see it and hold it in my hands. However, what I do regret is this:

 

1) Selling a lot of those things, and then re-buying them. :001_huh:

 

and here's the BIG one:

 

2) I should have spent that time/money on learning what I want our homeschooling environment to look/feel like. I should have spent that money/time on studying the METHODS not the curriculums. Does that make sense? Here is a post that I did on my blog recently that details the people/things that have really helped me to develop my "style" and my desires for our home learning evnironment.

 

So, if buying AAS or SWR will help you get a better feel for what you need then I would suggest finding it used and getting it.

 

This is just my rookie, very humble opinion. I know that I have a ton to learn still, and I hope that I'm always learning so take these thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

ETA: Fixed the link

[PeterPan]

Julie is absolutely on-track here. To take it a step further, when you use PR1 for a year, you're learning the method and getting familiar with the approach. Then you'll have a better sense of what helps you need in order to be successful or what extras your ds needs to make it a good fit. It's not a waste to do a year of PR1, no matter what, and it's unreasonable and unlikely to think you'll chose so well that nothing will have you switching again in a few years. No one is perfect.

[MerryAtHope]

I can't compare them as I haven't used PR. But I can answer a couple of questions about AAS:

 

Is it thorough--for spelling, yes. It's a complete phonics program, and it takes kids up to the high school level. For us it's also been a good way to help my reluctant writers (lots of dictation, and then the writing station later on. It's not a writing program, but has helped us in that area in addition to spelling).

 

What about word analysis--AAS is big on this. It uses tiles instead of a marking system, but all along it teaches the child to study the word and decide which strategies will help them spell the word. Pronouncing for spelling, phonetic, rules, visual strategies, morphemic strategies, etc.... Here's an article on the main strategies taught. There are word analysis skills taught all along, and then starting in level 4, the kids regularly do word analysis and talk through what strategies they think they should use (rather than just being told).

 

Syllable patterns--I find these have helped my kids a lot in learning how to spell--in analyzing a word to help them remember a spelling, and also in reading new words.

 

Have you looked at the online samples? That might help you decide if AAS would be a fit for you & your kids. Here's a link that has samples for levels 1-3 on it. You can see samples for any level by clicking on that level from the product page; the link is usually below the description.

 

HTH some, I know it can be such a challenge to decide what to use. Maybe this will free you a bit--don't look for the "perfect" program. Look for a good, effective program that will work well for you and for your child. There is no perfect program, all will have pros & cons, one will have one thing, one will have another. So, look for "excellence" instead.

 

Merry :-)

[abrightmom]

Tina and Katrina,

 

I do like the books she's chosen. But recently, I was listening to a lecture by SWB about using Great Books to teach history, etc., and she warned against doing literary analysis in the grammar stage because it's really a logic/rhetoric stage activity. She said that the problem with dissecting a book too much in the early years, when you are trying to cultivate a love of reading, is that the child may come to see books as puzzles to be solved and not something to enjoy. She also said that most kids after analyzing a book will most likely never want to see that book again. If those of you that have gone through PR2 and above haven't had that experience I would love to hear about how you think it's developmentally appropriate and hasn't had this effect on your children. Clearly, I haven't used it yet, so I'm sure you know better than I do how it's actually done.

 

Thanks for your responses!

 

Courtney,

 

SWB's lectures are wonderful. I listened to that one as well and then flipped out about the Little House in the Big Woods "Literature Study" in PR Level 2. Here's the Flip Out Thread :D I started. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173476&highlight=PR+lit+study Maybe it will enlighten you. IMHO the literature studies used in PR aren't what SWB is against. Mrs. Beers isn't taking a book and hacking it to death. Really. She uses the book as a platform or a tool to apply skills. I have Level Three and the literature studies are neat-o! And, She actually uses one of the literature studies to TEACH new grammar concepts! :D

 

OTOH, OhE's advice is sound. That is where I have ended up . . . taking what was working, setting it aside because I thought PR was somehow "better", only to find myself frustrated with watching DVDs when I don't really need to. I also decided that I really didn't want to give up WWE, FLL and AAS! :lol::lol: Yes, I'm a nut. But, it's a process of learning and growing as a Mom-Teacher too. I think PR has been tremendously helpful in teaching me a lot about myself, about English and about teaching. I just think that I liked my first LA track fine and I'm being pulled back to it. I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken and ended up with a big mess!! :lol::lol:

[abrightmom]

HTH some, I know it can be such a challenge to decide what to use. Maybe this will free you a bit--don't look for the "perfect" program. Look for a good, effective program that will work well for you and for your child. There is no perfect program, all will have pros & cons, one will have one thing, one will have another. So, look for "excellence" instead.Merry :-)

 

:001_smile::001_smile: Such wisdom . . .

[abrightmom]

I'm going to be real honest here. I bought so. many. different. curriculums, speeling programs, etc. before I ever even began teaching. Most people would probably chide me for that and laugh at my "rookie" mistakes, but I don't see it that way. Every. single. different thing that I bought taught me something. Now, I feel that I've learned so much more about how I like to teach and what I want my home to look like while learning by looking at all of those different programs. I'm one of those people that just has to see it and hold it in my hands. However, what I do regret is this:

 

1) Selling a lot of those things, and then re-buying them. :001_huh:

 

and here's the BIG one:

 

2) I should have spent that time/money on learning what I want our homeschooling environment to look/feel like. I should have spent that money/time on studying the METHODS not the curriculums. Does that make sense? Here is a post that I did on my blog recently that details the people/things that have really helped me to develop my "style" and my desires for our home learning evnironment.

 

So, if buying AAS or SWR will help you get a better feel for what you need then I would suggest finding it used and getting it.

 

This is just my rookie, very humble opinion. I know that I have a ton to learn still, and I hope that I'm always learning so take these thoughts with a grain of salt.

 

ETA: Fixed the link

 

This is awesome!! Makes me feel like I'm not such a nut for trying AAS and PR! And OhE used SWR, WRTR, PR, and AAS . . . I think she's a fantastic Mom-Teacher and she spent time figuring out herself, her kiddo, the methods and how to mesh it all together!! For awhile I was thinking I was a BAD Mom/Teacher for struggling through these decisions. :001_smile:

[abrightmom]

I'm trying to figure out if AAS does similar analysis. Merry answered this for you! She's a wealth of info. on AAS.

I have a close friend who works at one of the top private schools is Southern California and specializes in teaching reading and she was recently telling me that teaching segmenting is crucial for reading, which is something AAS incorporates. Although, I'm guessing this could be incorporated with PR as well. Sure! In a nutshell, segmenting is saying the sounds in the words. Mrs. Beers doesn't separate that out and call it segmenting BUT she teaches it when she takes you through each word. She asks, "What is the first sound you hear?" etc. When you are using a letter team she points out that the team is saying ONE sound. I think that if you understand that segmenting is saying each sound in a word you could pull that in to PR as a separate skill to practice if you'd like to. AAS has you use little tokens to pull down the table for each sound . . . gives you that kinesthetic "touch".:D

 

Someone mentioned that AAS teaches "syllabification", but PR doesn't. Do you (or anyone else) know what this is and why it's important? Read this thread. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174534&highlight=PR+syllabification That's another of my Psycho Panic Mom threads :D. Frankly, there is a little bit of syllable work in PR but it's more subtle. It's definitely explicit in AAS starting in Level Two. Frankly, I don't totally understand why it's necessary yet. :D

:001_smile: You just gotta start somewhere and expect that you will change course at some point! It's part of the learning and growing process. I've learned this in a painful way. It would have helped me tremendously to KNOW, in the beginning, that I would make a zillion mistakes. To know that I'd buy a curriculum and hate it. To know that it's okay to buy a curriculum to see what it is like. To know that I won't find perfect. It doesn't exist. To know that there are probably 30 different curricula choices here (for English studies) that would all "work" with consistent, day to day effort applied by me toward my children. Your choice of curriculum is your tool and you will have to learn how to use that tool most effectively. You may want to choose two for awhile and teach both :D. I'm doing that right now. It's kinda fun.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

I'm trying to decide between these two curricula. Obviously, The Phonics Road is more than just a spelling program, but I'm impressed with how thorough it seems. Would you say that AAS is just as thorough? Has anyone used both? Any thoughts or suggestions would be great!

 

you can look back at my previous posts to see how i agonized over this decision. in the end i chose AAS and am so happy i did.

[PeterPan]

This is awesome!! Makes me feel like I'm not such a nut for trying AAS and PR! And OhE used SWR, WRTR, PR, and AAS . . . I think she's a fantastic Mom-Teacher and she spent time figuring out herself, her kiddo, the methods and how to mesh it all together!! For awhile I was thinking I was a BAD Mom/Teacher for struggling through these decisions. :001_smile:

 

I've used all those things, because they were the right thing at the time. I hit a stage where I was really burnt out and wanted spelling done for me. AAS was in its infancy (and wasn't what she needed then anyway), so PR was where we ended up. That's why I'm saying you're NOT really making a long-term choice. You're starting into a methodology, and sometimes you change things up because life changes. I'm doing AAS with my dd now because we needed to go back and fill in some holes in her understanding, holes other kids might not have. She didn't really infer some things in SWR, and now that the vision therapy and whatnot are over and her visual processing is so much better, she's seeing everything afresh. I wanted to go through things AGAIN, a new way. My goal is to finish AAS2 by Christmas and then do one a month to finish through AAS6 by the end of May. That's not how normal people use it. Curriculum is a tool and you can do all kinds of things with it.

 

I could use ANY of those curricula, given the right mix of child's needs and my teacher needs, and know they were getting a solid foundation.

[Cindyz]

We completed AAS Level 1 and I felt that it was just too light and fluffy. We are on week 15 in PR1 and loving it. Yes, I have my complaints with the program but as for how does it work with my son? Wow! It's amazing. The way the rules are presented and worked over and over and over again with the markings really helped it to stick more with my son. When he's reading and stuck on a sound or vowel team I can say, "It's the third sound" and he inserts the sound and reads the word and he's back on his way. In my opinion there's just something about the way the markings work that really make it all stick. At 5 years old my son was given a spelling assessment as part of his iep evaluation and he tested as grade 2.5 in spelling and end of first grade/beginning of second grade for reading. :D

[Cindyz]

I wanted to add to what the others said about being able to move to something else after PR1. Once you learn the techniques, you could easily move to SWR with the Wise Guide spelling lists. We are on track to finish PR1 in April, but I don't think he'll be ready to jump right into PR2. I plan to use the Wise Guide with PR markings from April until about August when we will start PR2. If you felt like you didn't need all of the extras in PR2, you could probably just stick with the Wise Guide for spelling.

[PeterPan]

Aw come on, there's no reason to start bashing other stuff. AAS is not FLUFFY. AAS just takes a lot more care to break down concepts that some kids get more intuitively than others. My dd has always spelled several grade levels ahead, no issue there. But when an early lesson of AAS wanted her to play a game pointing to vowel tiles to match with sound, it was surprising how inaccurate she was. The curriculum is finding her holes, and that was one of them. So that might be fluff to you if your dc DOESN'T NEED that. But to me I was amazed how the experience of the author is coming how. She has nailed all these little stumbling blocks of understanding some kids have. If your kid doesn't need that, cool, but that doesn't make it fluff.

[Cindyz]

Aw come on, there's no reason to start bashing other stuff. AAS is not FLUFFY. AAS just takes a lot more care to break down concepts that some kids get more intuitively than others. My dd has always spelled several grade levels ahead, no issue there. But when an early lesson of AAS wanted her to play a game pointing to vowel tiles to match with sound, it was surprising how inaccurate she was. The curriculum is finding her holes, and that was one of them. So that might be fluff to you if your dc DOESN'T NEED that. But to me I was amazed how the experience of the author is coming how. She has nailed all these little stumbling blocks of understanding some kids have. If your kid doesn't need that, cool, but that doesn't make it fluff.

 

 

I'm not bashing it. I liked the program and debated on doing both AAS and PR. It's just my opinion that for our use, it was too light and fluffy. I wanted something .... more and PR was it. I really don't have anything bad to say about AAS except we wanted more.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Aw come on, there's no reason to start bashing other stuff. AAS is not FLUFFY. AAS just takes a lot more care to break down concepts that some kids get more intuitively than others. My dd has always spelled several grade levels ahead, no issue there. But when an early lesson of AAS wanted her to play a game pointing to vowel tiles to match with sound, it was surprising how inaccurate she was. The curriculum is finding her holes, and that was one of them. So that might be fluff to you if your dc DOESN'T NEED that. But to me I was amazed how the experience of the author is coming how. She has nailed all these little stumbling blocks of understanding some kids have. If your kid doesn't need that, cool, but that doesn't make it fluff.

 

 

We went through AAS 1 in a month. Level 2 has much more meat in it and we just finished it in 4 months. I know some people skip Level 1 with an older child. I was glad I started with Level 1, because we both became accustomed to the routine of the program. (My son is in 1st grade. He started reading at 3 years old.)

 

I also wanted to add that I love the WTM grammar and writing books, so I'm glad I'm not using an all inclusive program. My son often asks to do two First Language Lessons in one day.

[Jenstet]

I use both.

 

I started with AAS and although I liked it I felt it wasn't quite what I needed. I found PR and we LOVE it. We are using AAS3 and PR1.

 

I like the ease of AAS. I love how the dictation has progressed. I like its predictability in format. I like the 4 sounds of "o", PR teaches 3. We also enjoy the readers. I do take my time with AAS. He writes every word and sentence so it can take us 6-8 days to do a lesson. This is fine with me as I feel he gets a lot more out of small lessons over time.

 

I like how PR mixes up the word families. At times it is easy for my son to spell a word based on the same word family like in AAS but PR really keeps him thinking. I love how the rules are presented. My son enjoys the readers and was a "guesser". His reading has improved greatly. I thought the marking would be overwhelming but it really has worked for him.

 

There isn't really anything I really dislike about either program. I feel like they are working for him in different ways. The only thing I can say is I sometimes don't really feeling like watching the DVD's of PR but it's a small thing. I may not be able to keep up with using both as we progress in PR, that remains to be seen but so far so good.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Tina and Katrina,

 

I do like the books she's chosen. But recently, I was listening to a lecture by SWB about using Great Books to teach history, etc., and she warned against doing literary analysis in the grammar stage because it's really a logic/rhetoric stage activity. She said that the problem with dissecting a book too much in the early years, when you are trying to cultivate a love of reading, is that the child may come to see books as puzzles to be solved and not something to enjoy. She also said that most kids after analyzing a book will most likely never want to see that book again. If those of you that have gone through PR2 and above haven't had that experience I would love to hear about how you think it's developmentally appropriate and hasn't had this effect on your children. Clearly, I haven't used it yet, so I'm sure you know better than I do how it's actually done.

 

Thanks for your responses!

Thanks for the clarification. PR does not really sit and go through literary evaluation ad nauseum. From what I understand, it actually follows SWBs recs. pretty nicely. It uses the literature as a springboard to connect language arts as a whole. For what do we use reading? How does grammar work in reading and writing? How do we communicate effectively using spelling and grammar and turn what we know into excellent writing so others may read our thoughts? The program ties it all together to give a Big Picture view of Language Arts. I admit when the story is wonderful, it's tough to read 2 pages a day ;) so we just read ahead, then returned to do the work. No big deal! We got the best of both worlds and sometimes we stayed on the "schedule" so we couldn't wait until the end of the week to read the chapters as a whole.

 

AAS is a great program. There are mini-cards for pulling in PR. If you add a piece of magnetic strip to the back, you can move them around on a cookie sheet and have the function of the AAS tiles (the letters are in color, as oppossed to the whole tile). The main difference is the all-in-one aspect. Even if you are not on the same day, there has been some real value for our family in pulling all language arts from one resource. There is not split, no rift, no different approach....my Little League have a real understanding of the Whole of LA; I cannot say the same for my children who used a variety of LA programs. The Elders saw spelling, reading, writing, grammar and lit. analysis as arbitrary processes until they were older. It is still easy to slow down one area and move ahead in another where necessary. We were several weeks apart in grammar and spelling and completed the lit. at one time. Now we're in level 3 and in one place across the board. Neither scenario made for a poor fit.

 

The big bucks for PR do come as training fees and also b/c you have a lesson plan and completed answer key for Complete language arts. If you break up into subjects and price everything out (TM, Answer keys, student notebooks, paper provided, notebooks, even pencils provided) the price is not at all high, especially b/c you are receiving training on how to provide essential skills.

 

Keep in mind as you journey forward, PR1 is simply a taste of the pie, the crust even. Once you get into PR2 and higher, you get the real sweets from the inside!

 

The post about learning HOW to use the OG method, and not spending on a zillion curriculum choices, is WISE. I have read a Recipe for Reading; bought and sold Sensational Strategies; read through levels of AAS; owned SWR; and have taken what is best from each and applied them to PR. I admit, the DVDs were a Great tie in for me and I am so pleased to have them. I also like them in the higher levels b/c they show me exactly where all the answers are, taking out any researching, guessing, or digging for me. With my lot, it's nice to have someone else do the work for you, even when you are completely capable of doing it yourself! :D

[CourtneySue]

you can look back at my previous posts to see how i agonized over this decision. in the end i chose AAS and am so happy i did.

 

Thanks. I will check out your posts.

[CourtneySue]

Thank you for all of your amazing responses. I was hoping for at least 1 or 2 thoughtful responses, but instead I got four pages of great responses. I think I'm going to stick with PR and supplement some of the things that I also like about AAS. I do think PR is a fine curriculum (and I use the word "fine" as in a "fine cigar"). I actually did use AAS a little bit last year and do see where it has it's benefits, as well. I'm just wishing I hadn't already sold it. I did find this great article on the AAS website on Developing Phonemic Awareness that gives instructions on how to teach this to the kiddos. I remember doing this last year with my DS, but for some reason could not remember how it was done. Pretty simple, really.

 

Thanks for the advice on honing in my general philosophy. I feel like that is happening a lot this year. I spent a lot of time listening to others, but this year I've been doing more reading on my own. I've discovered Charlotte Mason this year, a philosophy I only blew off in the past because I really didn't understand it. But there's so much richness there yet to explored. Although, my roots will always be classical.

 

I realized that I'm forgetting the maxim from my very own mother, who was a teacher for years, that every curriculum needs to be supplemented.

 

 

Katrina, I feel like you could be my clone. You have articulated exactly how I feel more than once. It does help to not feel so alone. How exactly do you use both? I like the idea, but I don't want to overwhelm my DS.

 

 

Tina, Thanks for the explanations of PRs literary study. It definitely sounds better than I had understood. It's people like you that make me want to use PR, especially when you use pie analogies.

 

 

Oh, Elizabeth, Thanks for the reminder that what I do is not set in stone. My only fear is making too many changes that result in confusing my kiddos. Although, I do have a question--if AAS had been more established back when you chose PR, do you think you still would have gone with PR? I'm just curious what you would have done in retrospect.

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

T

I realized that I'm forgetting the maxim from my very own mother, who was a teacher for years, that every curriculum needs to be supplemented.

 

 

YES!!! I was a classroom teacher and I supplemented everything:) No wonder I still am at home!

[PeterPan]

Courtney, PR didn't fit my dd. It tried to do too many things, and my dd was at wildly varying levels. (pencil phobic, extremely advanced reader, solid but not natural speller) Once I bounced back from my burnout, we went back to SWR and lots of dictation. By 5th grade we realized her issues were due to vision and OT problems, not curriculum, so we spent the last 9 months working on that. Now the VT is wrapping up, and we're going back to the beginning to see things afresh. AAS is, for us, a more meticulous version of SWR. I kick it up with more interesting words from HTTS. We don't have a lot of time for schoolwork right now, so I've just been doing infrequent, intense sessions with her. We've done 3 or 4 like that. One more and we'll be done with AAS1. That gives us 3 weeks to cover AAS2, which should be fine.

 

You ask an interesting question. I didn't need AAS in that way at that time, since only one or two levels were out, which would have gotten us no where. (She has always spelled well above grade level.) In reality she's probably dyslexic, though we have no formal diagnosis. PR never was going to be what she needed, but it fits some kids, kids who are on the same or about the same level for everything, very well. My dd needed more, more instruction, more explanation, more care, so I've always had to work hard bringing together lots of things to make that happen. I have no beef with PR if it fits the dc and makes it easy for the teacher to teach. I'm saving AAS, assuming I'll use it in some fashion with my ds, but I would have NO qualms whatsoever using PR with him if he turns out to be more typical and on-level for all those things. There are definite advantages to that LA integration!

[H_Household]

Can I say that I've loved reading this post....people sharing their hearts as they venture on this homeschool journey. I can say our house has had a journey too. We started with Bob Jones which teaches word families....realized that isn't how I wanted to teach reading. Tried OPGTR,ETC and Plaid Phonics which were ok..then found AAS....which was great and loved the OG approach.....so I found the approach I was finally looking for.....now to find a reading program to match. I spent so much time researching it and went with PR1. I had high hopes but once again began to realize more about myself. If you frequent these forums....you have seen the debate for math about Spiral vs. Mastery. Well, that is what I found with PR. I realized that I like the mastery style approach and found that PR was not like that. I had a hard time following it and so once again started my search. I am currently using and enjoying a OG program called Discovering Intensive Phonics. It is more of a mastery style program and has reinforcement on the computer which my kids love. We are using DIP, AAS, FFL and WWE. After we finish our phonics curriculum (by end of 2nd grade) we'll go on to literature studies while continuing to do AAS, FFL, and WWE until we start Classical Conversations Essentials program which uses IEW.

Good luck in your journey!

[Cindyz]

Can I say that I've loved reading this post....people sharing their hearts as they venture on this homeschool journey. I can say our house has had a journey too. We started with Bob Jones which teaches word families....realized that isn't how I wanted to teach reading. Tried OPGTR,ETC and Plaid Phonics which were ok..then found AAS....which was great and loved the OG approach.....so I found the approach I was finally looking for.....now to find a reading program to match. I spent so much time researching it and went with PR1. I had high hopes but once again began to realize more about myself. If you frequent these forums....you have seen the debate for math about Spiral vs. Mastery. Well, that is what I found with PR. I realized that I like the mastery style approach and found that PR was not like that. I had a hard time following it and so once again started my search. I am currently using and enjoying a OG program called Discovering Intensive Phonics. It is more of a mastery style program and has reinforcement on the computer which my kids love. We are using DIP, AAS, FFL and WWE. After we finish our phonics curriculum (by end of 2nd grade) we'll go on to literature studies while continuing to do AAS, FFL, and WWE until we start Classical Conversations Essentials program which uses IEW.

Good luck in your journey!

 

It seems like OPGTR and AAS are more mastery based and PR is more spiral.

 

Following is a post made by the creator or SWR that I found interesting and thought I would share here. I think it relates to PR as well since it is not mastery based. This is another reason that I prefer PR over AAS. PR introduces all of the phonograms very early and then you practice them all throughout the program. AAS introduces them one at a time slowly and for the most part the child should master one before moving on to another.

 

 

RE: I'm a little concerned that they're swamped by the phonograms. They're handling the A-Z cards as well as the first 5 multi-letter cards just fine but I don't know how to help them remember any more.

 

Reply: Relax. It is expected and normal that you children have not mastered all the phonograms yet. Enjoy a deep sigh of relief. It sounds like you are off to a great start. They will not be using many of phonograms in spelling for quite some time. It is helpful for them to be exposed to them because they more than likely will see them in words around them much sooner.

 

The phonograms needed the most are taught first. In my life time, the education establishment has moved to teaching just one or two things at a time with concentrated application. They may just teach one sound for the letter O and exposes the child to multiple words with that letter uses that sound. What happen when the child thinks he is getting how this works and starts trying out his new found skill. He looks on the entrance door to the store and reads "ah-pen." You correct him and say, "O-pen." He looks at you with confusion. By limiting the understanding of the written code, you have created false expectations. Our goal is to plant quickly more accurate seeds to how the language actually works.

 

We purposely present the phonograms more rapidly then anyone can master them. Mastery is a later goal. We are taking initial steps towards that goal. Think of the first day we hold a baby up and let him experience putting pressure on his feet. Did we expect him to take off walking? Of course not. We know that we will support him in the months to come helping him strengthen those legs. One day he will take off. Mental training works the same way.

 

RE: I drill them most days by having them tell me the phoneme for a given phonogram and they just draw blank or can only give me one of the sounds for most of the newer cards. I've tried having them write the phonogram for given phonemes but they're especially poor with that style of drill. Can anybody suggest ways that I can help them pick up this knowledge?

 

Reply: When your students draw a blank, smile and give them the answer. Remember, they are at the hand holding stage. Expect them to not know these all yet. Realize it will take time. Smile that they are learning. Enjoy the success that comes when they can remember one of the sounds. It is starting to take. Yeah! That brings them closer to when they will learn the rest. Even after a child starts walking, he will fall down. Even after a child has learned the phonograms, he may forget. This too is normal and expected. We program in phonogram drill of some sort with every lesson plan including teaching Section Z words. Time and constant exposure builds the instant response that is our long term goal. Look ahead in Wise Guide. In the preliminaries you will see a list of phonograms of special interest for each section.

 

Games like phonogram bingo and the Phonogram Game Cards are a great way to add in some bonus review for seeing and saying the phonograms. Resist the temptation to attach unnecessary aids in the learning process. Picture clues or cute aids may help them learn the material faster but they will forever be in the way in retrieving the phonograms instantly. Such memory prompts will ultimately slow them down when they need to be fast. Remember, the goal to establish an uncluttered response from the sound to the symbol.

 

Spelling the phonogram is the harder skill to master. It is easier to see and say then it is to hear and write. They need your encouragement and coaching. I do this is several ways. I may give verbal instruction for how to shape the phonogram. I may start to write it on the board. I may flash the phonogram card. I may help them write the phonogram on paper and then have them come to the board and try to write it again without help. This helps build short term memory into longer term memory. You can build hearing and writing phonograms into games as well. You could use a standard game board like Chutes and Ladders and have them earn the right for a turn. They first hear a phonogram and write it correctly.

 

I remind myself when I feel discourage that I am giving my students one of the most valuable set of lifetime skills. Rome was not built in a day. The keys to the most massive language known to man will not be mastered over night. Hard work over time will reap great rewards.

 

Blessings,

 

Wanda Sanseri

 

 

[johnandtinagilbert]

It seems like OPGTR and AAS are more mastery based and PR is more spiral.

 

Following is a post made by the creator or SWR that I found interesting and thought I would share here. I think it relates to PR as well since it is not mastery based. This is another reason that I prefer PR over AAS. PR introduces all of the phonograms very early and then you practice them all throughout the program. AAS introduces them one at a time slowly and for the most part the child should master one before moving on to another.

Thanks for the great post by Sanseri. That is wonderful!

[PeterPan]

It seems like OPGTR and AAS are more mastery based and PR is more spiral.

 

Following is a post made by the creator or SWR that I found interesting and thought I would share here. I think it relates to PR as well since it is not mastery based. This is another reason that I prefer PR over AAS. PR introduces all of the phonograms very early and then you practice them all throughout the program. AAS introduces them one at a time slowly and for the most part the child should master one before moving on to another.

 

Zenz, have you actually used AAS, or are you going by what you've read online? AAS1 introduces all basic phonograms and has the student begin working on them, just like SWR. In later lessons they introduce the multi-letter phonograms, doling them out in doses as needed, just like SWR does. There's no distinction there. It does not introduce them slowly, one at a time, and make the student stall for mastery. The student has an index box with cards for each category of content they are working on. There are divider tabs for Review, Mastered, and Future material cards. At the start of each lesson you spend a few minutes and work on the cards in the Review section and move them to Mastered when they are nailed. No stopping, or anything like you described. It's almost identical in feel to SWR, WRTR, etc., just extremely well organized.

 

Also to categorize any of these spelling programs as spiral vs. mastery is sort of inaccurate. AAS happens to do a better job than most at making it easy to quantify and practice the things you're trying to master, but all of them expect you to drill and master the material (rules, phonograms, sound to phonogram and phonogram to sound, etc.) at some point. All of them build foundationally, from the ground up, and use the prior skills to prepare for the next level. But the methods are all almost identical, truth be told. It's the perks and extras you get that differentiate them. And to me, PR has the least amount of reinforcements and practice, outside the practice you get in the LA materials (which won't fit or be enough for some kids). SWR has the most extension activities and options but requires the energy of Mom to make everything happen. But they're all almost identical in methodology. Each just brings a few extra tweaks to the table.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Zenz, have you actually used AAS, or are you going by what you've read online? AAS1 introduces all basic phonograms and has the student begin working on them, just like SWR. In later lessons they introduce the multi-letter phonograms, doling them out in doses as needed, just like SWR does. There's no distinction there. It does not introduce them slowly, one at a time, and make the student stall for mastery. The student has an index box with cards for each category of content they are working on. There are divider tabs for Review, Mastered, and Future material cards. At the start of each lesson you spend a few minutes and work on the cards in the Review section and move them to Mastered when they are nailed. No stopping, or anything like you described. It's almost identical in feel to SWR, WRTR, etc., just extremely well organized.

 

Also to categorize any of these spelling programs as spiral vs. mastery is sort of inaccurate. AAS happens to do a better job than most at making it easy to quantify and practice the things you're trying to master, but all of them expect you to drill and master the material (rules, phonograms, sound to phonogram and phonogram to sound, etc.) at some point. All of them build foundationally, from the ground up, and use the prior skills to prepare for the next level. But the methods are all almost identical, truth be told. It's the perks and extras you get that differentiate them. And to me, PR has the least amount of reinforcements and practice, outside the practice you get in the LA materials (which won't fit or be enough for some kids). SWR has the most extension activities and options but requires the energy of Mom to make everything happen. But they're all almost identical in methodology. Each just brings a few extra tweaks to the table.

I believe AAS uses word families and I know PR does not. I think that's where the ideas of mastery and spiral are connected to spelling programs (we sort of labeled it that way in another thread). PRs review is built in yearly, in addition to using dictation, grammar and lit. studies. If a word is mastered (i.e. spelled correctly by the student) then it is let go for spelling instruction but used in dictation (there is a great deal of dictation in PR). That is why there are daily "tests" or reviews, to work on what is not mastered. In addition, the daily practice is to write the word on the clipboard (whiteboard or whatever we all decide to use) then write it in the notebook. You only practice what you need to practice this way.

[MerryAtHope]

I believe AAS uses word families and I know PR does not. I think that's where the ideas of mastery and spiral are connected to spelling programs (we sort of labeled it that way in another thread). PRs review is built in yearly, in addition to using dictation, grammar and lit. studies. If a word is mastered (i.e. spelled correctly by the student) then it is let go for spelling instruction but used in dictation (there is a great deal of dictation in PR). That is why there are daily "tests" or reviews, to work on what is not mastered. In addition, the daily practice is to write the word on the clipboard (whiteboard or whatever we all decide to use) then write it in the notebook. You only practice what you need to practice this way.

 

Just to clarify--AAS uses word families to an extent, but only to introduce words and concepts. AAS incorporates a lot of mixed review through dictation and the card review, and also does "mastered review" twice per level. Daily review with AAS is also only what the child needs to practice. I think it's accurate to say AAS is a mastery-based approach, but mastery-based programs do include ongoing review. I think the difference is not in the review (which is what I used to believe about mastery vs. spiral programs) but in the method of introduction of topics.

 

Merry :-)

[Cindyz]

I believe AAS uses word families and I know PR does not. I think that's where the ideas of mastery and spiral are connected to spelling programs (we sort of labeled it that way in another thread). PRs review is built in yearly, in addition to using dictation, grammar and lit. studies. If a word is mastered (i.e. spelled correctly by the student) then it is let go for spelling instruction but used in dictation (there is a great deal of dictation in PR). That is why there are daily "tests" or reviews, to work on what is not mastered. In addition, the daily practice is to write the word on the clipboard (whiteboard or whatever we all decide to use) then write it in the notebook. You only practice what you need to practice this way.

 

 

Yes, this. :iagree: As I said we completed AAS level 1 and there are about half the amount of phonograms introduced compared to PR1. We are on lesson 15 of PR and we've learned (I think) 72 phonograms. After level 1 of AAS, we had only about 32 phonograms in our card holder. I like that PR does not limit the words studied to that particular family because to me, it's just too easy for them to follow the pattern for the week without really having to think it through.

 

As I said, both programs have their pros and cons. I'm just stating the things that I like about PR over AAS. I could also list the things that I like about AAS over PR, but the list is shorter and that's why I chose PR. :D I have no stake or care in what anyone else chooses to use with their child as I think everyone should use what's best for them and what's best for my child isn't what's best for every child. I'm sorry if you don't like my opinions.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Cindyz

[PeterPan]

Having worked with BJU phonics quite a bit, which IS word family, I would say AAS simply has word lists organized by concept. SWR's word lists are by frequency for adults and let the concept coverage be random, which isn't as good for all kids. Covering by concept is especially nice when you're remediating and filling in holes, which you'll notice a lot of people using AAS are doing. The author wrote it after years of tutoring experience, presumably doing the same thing. These aren't really programs aimed at the same target audiences, frankly.

 

When AAS first came out we reviewed it and said the pacing of the phonograms and whatnot did not make it an ideal way to teach reading. Isn't Rippel coming out with a book to teach reading? Definitely you want to cover all the phonograms and basic concepts as quickly as possible to allow their reading to progress.

[H_Household]

Wow...didn't mean to start a discussion on mastery vs. spiral. Just wanted to share that like many have said....not every program works for every family. I love to hear both sides of a curriculum so I know better what it's like from those who have used it....so I can make a better decision for my family. My way of relating it to the mastery vs. sprial was that I have just realized what kind of curriculum I need to use. That is what I was trying to get across. I hated to have to spend that much money on PR to learn that lesson but I'm ok with it as I realize now, really what I'm looking for. For my family, we understand a mastery program better and incorporate review throughout. I love that AAS reinforces the OG Phonics/Reading program we have found. I'm also ok with going with a bunch of different programs instead of one if that is what helps my kids to learn. The thing I really love is when they overlap and we can talk about how we have already learned that in reading or spelling.

The best thing about homeschooling is that we can find the curriculum that works for us as teachers and for our kids to learn. I'm even learning through the process that what I used for one might not work for another child of mine. I wish you all the best as you seek to use what works best for you!

[johnandtinagilbert]

Just to clarify--AAS uses word families to an extent, but only to introduce words and concepts. AAS incorporates a lot of mixed review through dictation and the card review, and also does "mastered review" twice per level. Daily review with AAS is also only what the child needs to practice. I think it's accurate to say AAS is a mastery-based approach, but mastery-based programs do include ongoing review. I think the difference is not in the review (which is what I used to believe about mastery vs. spiral programs) but in the method of introduction of topics.

 

Merry :-)

ALways glad when you pipe in about AAS, Merry. It's nice to have an expert here!

 

The Building Codes in PR make the connections between Rules or "families". My clarification on PR review was not to compare to AAS, but rather to clarify, to give examples of the review in PR. We've used the BC as a review many times. They're also a nice resource if you notice a family needs remediation. One can always drop in extra words on the daily "tests."

 

Yes, this. :iagree: As I said we completed AAS level 1 and there are about half the amount of phonograms introduced compared to PR1. We are on lesson 15 of PR and we've learned (I think) 72 phonograms. After level 1 of AAS, we had only about 32 phonograms in our card holder. I like that PR does not limit the words studied to that particular family because to me, it's just too easy for them to follow the pattern for the week without really having to think it through. This was the case for my dc in the early years, too. We would master via the weekly list, but then lose it in application. It is something I love about PR and honestly, when we began PR, I was worried it wouldn't work b/c the lack of "families," but once we got it going, I have been so pleased at how quickly he dc got along. .

 

Having worked with BJU phonics quite a bit, which IS word family, I would say AAS simply has word lists organized by concept. SWR's word lists are by frequency for adults and let the concept coverage be random, which isn't as good for all kids. Covering by concept is especially nice when you're remediating and filling in holes, which you'll notice a lot of people using AAS are doing. The author wrote it after years of tutoring experience, presumably doing the same thing. These aren't really programs aimed at the same target audiences, frankly.

 

When AAS first came out we reviewed it and said the pacing of the phonograms and whatnot did not make it an ideal way to teach reading. Isn't Rippel coming out with a book to teach reading? Definitely you want to cover all the phonograms and basic concepts as quickly as possible to allow their reading to progress.

Bold: Good point. I'd say the Building Codes in PR give a nice central location for some of the phonograms and give a good springboard to focus on a particular sound; however, there aren't as many BCs as phonograms, so I can see where word families are good for remediation. As a family, even with different learning styles, word families for spelling never worked for us.

 

Italics: Yes, she is and I think it's coming soon!