History cycles (4 year vs. 6 year)

[eloquacious]

Which cycle do you think is preferable? SWB and TOG use a 4-year cycle, but I've seen others (like Veritas Press) do a 6-year cycle. Right now nothing is in stone, but thus far the plan is to send our sons to a classical charter school as of 6th or 7th grade, and I'm wondering if I'm better off working through history once properly (taking our time) before then, or ending mid-cycle?

 

I wonder why Veritas does it this way - perhaps just to do it more thoroughly, perhaps because the transition to the logic/dialectic stage happens at varying times for varying students?

 

Thoughts?

[Honey Bee]

Which cycle do you think is preferable? SWB and TOG use a 4-year cycle, but I've seen others (like Veritas Press) do a 6-year cycle. Right now nothing is in stone, but thus far the plan is to send our sons to a classical charter school as of 6th or 7th grade, and I'm wondering if I'm better off working through history once properly (taking our time) before then, or ending mid-cycle?

 

I wonder why Veritas does it this way - perhaps just to do it more thoroughly, perhaps because the transition to the logic/dialectic stage happens at varying times for varying students?

 

Thoughts?

 

Well, actually Veritas uses a 5-3-3 Cycle. Confusing huh? :D

 

2nd-6th is the first cycle (5 years) with a slow, chronological look at history with the use of their History/Bible cards

 

7th-9th grade is the first level of Omnibus Ancients, Medieval, and Modern.

 

10th-12th is the next level of Omnibus, Ancients, Medieval, and Modern. Both Omnibus levels are book driven, not necessarily event driven like the cards are in the lower levels. This is the plan Veritas has laid out, but either can be used when you want.

 

We are using Veritas now, it might be a good fit for your family, you could start the cycle when they are in 1st/2nd and end when they are in 5th/6th and then send them to School. I would talk to the school or get their catalog to see what their middle school and high school requirements look like, then you could make a better decision. Here's a few ideas:

 

1. Use Veritas Press 1st 5-year cycle with Cards
   
2. Use WTM 4 year cycle
   
3. Use WTM 4 year cycle + concentrated year on city/state/US (you could do 1 semester of local/state and one using Beautiful Feet US history)
   
4. WTM 4 year + 1 year geography
   

This is where I think talking to the school would help, they may have already gone through your local/state history before you put them into the school, and you would have to do that yourself. You could always stretch the 4 year cycle out too. I think one long cycle would be better if you don't have 8 years to do 2x 4-year cycle. HTH!

[KrissiK]

I really toyed with both ideas and decided on the 4 year cycle. Here's why: They get the ancients in 1st grade with WTM and 2nd grade with VP. In both cases, they're pretty young and can't go too in depth, and the retention is probably pretty low. However, with WTM, I know they're going to get it again in 5th grade and can go a little more in depth, plus with it being the second time they're studying it, I think they'll learn and retain more.

[Heidi]

No thoughts, but here's another 6-year-rotation using the M.B. Synge books that I just started. :D I didn't like SOTW and I can't afford TOG. I love the Synge books so far.

[Sahamamama]

Veritas Press doesn't start the history cycle until second grade because they feel that first graders have enough on their little plates with reading and writing (and math). Their focus in K and 1st is on those basic, basic skills (3 Rs), getting those well underway.

 

Another argument is posited by Memoria Press, which has a unique history "cycle." FWIW, I agree with Cheryl Lowe's recommendations, at least for 1st & 2nd grades. I'm not sure I agree with "mixing it up" in the later grades, though.

 

Beautiful Feet Books advises studying American history in the primary years (1st-3rd), starting "Ancients" no sooner than fourth grade.

 

Again, from the opposite perspective, Greenleaf Press advises studying history from beginning to end (scroll down in the catalog to see options for 7-, 6-, 5-, and 4-year sequences).

 

If you do decide to begin at the beginning, would it be workable to take three years to do the first two cycles, then two years for the final two? This way, when the students are younger, you would have an extra half-year for each of the first two eras. By the time they have studied history for two years, they (and you ;)) should be able to move along faster. If an era is divided into 36 "weeks," then instead of covering 9 weeks' worth of material every quarter, you only need to cover 6 weeks' worth:

 

 

• Year 1 -- Ancients (Weeks 1-6; Weeks 7-12; Weeks 13-18; Weeks 19-24)
  
• Year 2 -- Ancients (Weeks 25-30; Weeks 31-36) + Middle Ages (Weeks 1-6; Weeks 7-12)
  
• Year 3 -- Middle Ages (Weeks 13-18; Weeks 19-24; Weeks 25-30; Weeks 31-36)
  

 

 

 

• Year 4 -- Discovery & Exploration (Weeks 1-36)
  
• Year 5 -- Modern Times (Weeks 1-36)
  

 

Another option might be to focus on Western/Mediterranean history in Years 1-4, then in Year 5 you could study the Eastern Hemisphere, Sky and Sea, World Geography, the History of Science, the Story of the Horse, or some other great study.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Sahamamama

[mama25angels]

hmmm, I don't know which is best, but i'm actually thinking of moving to a 6yr. cycle after I graduate my 2 older ones this summer.

[Heidi]

No thoughts, but here's another 6-year-rotation using the M.B. Synge books that I just started. :D I didn't like SOTW and I can't afford TOG. I love the Synge books so far.

 

Ooops. Here it is: http://www.milestonesacademy.com/Site/Family_History_Rotation_(Elementary_Years).html

[Chris in VA]

I prefer the 4 year cycle, because I want the first to be exposure-oriented. A 6 year cycle means I would go more slowly, but I would need to be more concerned with retention and understanding. I don't want that pressure for elementary. I want the first years to give the message that history is interesting and fun, and to provide an opportunity for memorization of an outline/pegs. I want the middle years to be very fact-based and comparision-driven, leaving the last part of the rotation for rhetoric-stage work with Great Books. I don't think a 6 year rotation prepares one well enough for Great Book work.

 

That said, Public School totally messed up our rotation, so we are off a few years. Even if they do more American History, I wish they'd at least do history in chronological order--they jump from Ancients to American to State history (which is colonial, mainly) and back to Ancients.

[Lori D.]

Well, we intended to do 4-year cycles, but we bunnytrailed and took extra time to explore deeply in areas of our interest in those elementary years (and loved it!), and so we did a 6-year chronological cycle; then we did a fabulous 1 year break when DSs were gr. 7 & 8 to do a wold culture / geography and comparative religions / worldviews focus (emphasis on Eastern Hemisphere); and now are nearly done with 4 years of high school history (but being done out of order).

 

Yes, they retained quite a lot from all 6 years of history.

And wow, the middle school year with a focus on comparative religions/worldviews a fantastic prep for studying and analyzing history and literature in high school!

And yes, you can do history out of order and it works great, too.

 

Now in high school, we're doing history all 4 years, but out of order to follow DSs interests (ancient world; 20 century world; American history; medieval to enlightenment world) and it's working great, too! They have all those "pegs" from the elementary/middle school years to connect with and now go deeper. I think matching up a lot of the history readings and literature with the history time period does help them see more clearly how it all fits together and influences one another...

 

It's worked so well for us, I encourage you to layout your history in the way you want -- it all ends up being great! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[eloquacious]

Wow, I think my head is spinning. If I knew for certain that the school would come at the time we are currently discussing, it might change things, but right now I'm so very confused. I am inclined to believe that very little ones might not need historical studies, and that one of the two areas that might work, at least for Christian kids, is Biblical times/ancients - which might tend to make me incline towards the Veritas Press model. (No history Gr. 1, then Grades 2 and 3 Old Testament and New Testament, and by the time you're in Grade 4 you're ready for cool medieval stuff.

 

In college, I did a one-year tour through Western History, focusing on three courses, Literature, History and Politics, and Philosophy. (http://www.yale.edu/directedstudies/ has reading lists), then the Humanities Major was split into four groups of courses, which align more with SWB's four-year cycle, Ancient, Medieval, Renaissance, Modern.

 

Of course, if each child stayed in each learning stage equally long, and they were each four years exactly, the four-year cycle might be best ... or even just for simplicity's sake.

 

I could totally see us doing

 

K-1 No history or local/incidental history

2 OT

3 NT

4 Medieval

5 Renaissance/Reformation

6 Modern

7 Ancients

8 Medieval

9 Renaissance/Reformation

10 Modern - World

11 Modern - US and Civics

12 Geography / Economics?

 

At any rate - as I said, I'm confused. :001_huh:

[Woodland_Mom]

When my ds started 1st grade, I had intended to do a 4 year cycle as described in TWTM. I found that we needed to move at a slower pace so that there was plenty of time to sink into the material, read lots of great books from the time period and do fun projects. A 6 year history cycle our first time through seems to work perfectly for this. My kids have been exposed to MANY history topics lightly, but we've studied other things more in-depth. My oldest ds is now a 5th grader. He doesn't remember lots that we covered from the ancient period, however, he has retained the "pegs of information" from the VP Cards because we memorize all 160 cards every year. Hopefully, when we move through the material the second time, he'll have bells of familiarity ringing in his little head. :)

 

Here's my plan:

 

1st - 6th grade: First pass through history

7th - 8th: Possibly SL 6 and 7 for a "once over" everything

9th - 12th: Third pass through history

[LisaKinVA]

We've done it this way:

 

1st-4th (SOTW 1-4)

1 Semester of VA History Studies/Project

5th US History to 1865 (Hakim 1-5)

6th US History 1865 to Present (Hakim 6-10)

7th -- Ancients

8th -- Middle Ages

9th -- Modern History

10th -- Ancients

11th -- Middle Ages

12th -- Modern

 

Although, I'm still trying to figure out how to squeeze in more US History and Constitutional Law... I'm dying to get out my college textbooks and work through them, along with ancillary reading with my oldest son. Of course, my dh wants to get out all of his Naval History, and history of shipbuilding...lol we're hopeless!

[eloquacious]

 

1st - 6th grade: First pass through history

7th - 8th: Possibly SL 6 and 7 for a "once over" everything

9th - 12th: Third pass through history

 

 

I like this idea a lot! For what it's worth, I'm fascinated by everyone's versions of historical studies. I'd love to make this a sticky, with ideas/theoretical models as well as what others have done, including what worked and what didn't.

 

Looking at our state's standards for Social Studies reminded me of things I'm more inclined to forget - Economics, Geography, and Civics/Government, and I want to integrate those as much as possible without forgetting them.

[eloquacious]

We've done it this way:

 

 

Although, I'm still trying to figure out how to squeeze in more US History and Constitutional Law... I'm dying to get out my college textbooks and work through them, along with ancillary reading with my oldest son. Of course, my dh wants to get out all of his Naval History, and history of shipbuilding...lol we're hopeless!

 

 

I think that finding a space for the passions of the teachers (aka parents) and students is crucial. Forgetting that and merely following a scope and sequence seems silly. I love what you did with leaving time for a project, and I'd like to do that at least a few times during the academic career, possibly more. I myself went to the National History Day competition in D.C. with a project about Queen Elizabeth II, and that time (as well as my teacher/mentor) is still one of the fondest school memories I have.

 

I intend to school year-round, so perhaps during "off" times we can utilize the time for cool projects and special unit studies. Perhaps a summer naval history course, complete with family field trip? ;)

[Ester Maria]

We did two smaller ones (roughly 3-year ones, with some American history tossed in-between, as our general focal point is Italy / European context), and the last one planned is 5 years, but it actually functions as a 4-year cycle, because the first two years are spent on ancients (Greece in 8th, Rome in 9th - roughly speaking, of course).

 

As a general rule of the thumb, I like WTM division in 4-year cycles.

[Lori D.]

ooking at our state's standards for Social Studies reminded me of things I'm more inclined to forget - Economics, Geography, and Civics/Government, and I want to integrate those as much as possible without forgetting them.

 

 

In case it helps, here's how we've worked those required credits in with our 2 DSs, who are one grade apart (we blend in little bits of geography and art/music/humanities with the history as we go):

 

gr. 8/9 (8th grader did it, too, but only counted as credit for 9th grader)

1 credit = History: Ancient World (elective)

1 credit = Great Books: Ancient Classics (elective) (ala WTM/WEM)

1 credit = English (required) -- grammar; composition; literature (LLftLotR)

 

gr. 9/10

1 credit = History: 20th Century World (required)

1 credit = Great Books: Modern Classics (elective) (ala WTM/WEM)

1 credit = English (required) -- grammar; composition; lit.

(9th grader's lit = Lightning Lit. 8)

(10th grader's lit = "Worldviews in Classic Sci-Fi and Gothic Lit.")

 

gr. 10/11

1 credit = History: American (required)

1 credit = English (required) -- grammar; composition; lit. (classic American Lit., ala WTM/WEM)

0.5 credit = Government (required)

 

gr. 11/12

0.5 to 0.75 credit = History: Medieval to Enlightenment World (elective)

1 credit = English -- composition; lit. (classic British Lit., ala WTM/WEM)

0.5 = Economics (required)

 

NEXT YEAR: gr. 12

0.5 credit = history or geography or worldviews

1 credit = English -- composition; lit. (classic World Lit. -- and possibly classic sci-fi/fantasy lit., ala WTM/WEM)

 

Note, we worked to get the requirements and the extra literature (Great Books) done in the first few years of high school so that by junior and senior years, if DSs found career interests, they would have room in their schedules to pursue those as credits.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Lori D.
added info

[AngelBee]

I am actually trying to do a 3 yr rotation. Lol So I am of no help! :D