SWR, AAS, or other for bright learner who needs rules?

[cmb6]

I’m looking for a spelling program for DS. He is comfortable decoding (we finished all of ETC last year when he was in public school), and understands the English phonic system pretty well when it comes to reading words, but he needs to learn how to work in reverse from a sound to a correct spelling. For instance, I remember him being really frustrated last year at school when they wouldn’t tell him if stone was OA or O silent E.

 

All that to say that he is at roughly grade level for spelling, but I suspect that he will move forward relatively quickly once he is exposed to the material. I really like All About Spelling, for instance, but one of my hesitations is on spending so much per grade level when I expect to move quickly through them. But... I love how it is laid out. I love the preview lessons online, how systematically the rules are presented. This kind of rule-based approach is exactly what DS thrives on.

 

One other program that looked interesting was Spell to Write and Read. I really liked that everything comes in one volume. Anyone have experience with that one?

 

Are there other programs out there for a logical child? I’ve looked at some of the threads here, and it seems like people here often mention inexpensive, easy programs for “natural spellers,†who don’t need rules, vs. programs for kids who struggle with spelling and need rules. I'd like rules, but geared toward an extremely analytical child who wants to go very deeply into why English spelling works the way it does.

 

To give you an example of how he likes to learn, when we did silent T last year, he instantly wanted to make up a chart with -sten vs. -tle across the top, and long vowel vs. short vowel in the preceding syllable across the sides, and then write each word in the appropriate spot. Then he counted all the words in each category, and he was done with silent T. It took about five minutes (thus my hesitancy to spend a lot on a program), but he wants the structure, and NEEDS it.

 

Essentially, I am looking for the Singapore math of spelling programs--conceptual emphasis, broken down into logically ordered chunks. I don't need a lot of practice work; scripting is okay if it's there but we probably won't use it--and if it comes at a Singapore-like price, that would be even better.

 

I feel some urgency to get started–DS recently mentioned that he would be much happier writing if he could feel more confident with spelling.

 

Thank you so much for your help!

 

Heather

[Crimson Wife]

How to Teach Spelling is supposed to be similar to AAS but at a faster pace. It's also cheaper. I have no personal experience with it, however. Do a search on the main K-8 forum and you should be able to find reviews.

[8filltheheart]

but he needs to learn how to work in reverse from a sound to a correct spelling.

 

 

I'd like rules, but geared toward an extremely analytical child who wants to go very deeply into why English spelling works the way it does.

 

To give you an example of how he likes to learn, when we did silent T last year, he instantly wanted to make up a chart with -sten vs. -tle across the top, and long vowel vs. short vowel in the preceding syllable across the sides, and then write each word in the appropriate spot. Then he counted all the words in each category, and he was done with silent T. It took about five minutes (thus my hesitancy to spend a lot on a program), but he wants the structure, and NEEDS it.

 

Essentially, I am looking for the Singapore math of spelling programs--conceptual emphasis, broken down into logically ordered chunks. I don't need a lot of practice work; scripting is okay if it's there but we probably won't use it--and if it comes at a Singapore-like price, that would be even better.

 

I feel some urgency to get started–DS recently mentioned that he would be much happier writing if he could feel more confident with spelling.

 

Thank you so much for your help!

 

Heather

 

I want to address the bolded comment first before going any further. English is phonetic to decode with great accuracy. However, the reverse is not true. They have to KNOW which phonogram is the correct one. You cannot rule your way into spelling for words that are beyond the most basic level words. Multiple phonograms says the same sounds and no specific rule is going to specify which phonogram you need to use for this word and which for that. The options create multiple optional spellings which are all phonetically valid and all do not break rules. The writer has to be able to recognize independently which phonogram is the correct one.

 

All that said, I would suggest 1 of 2 programs. HTTS is OG rule based spelling and includes word lists for K-12 with spiraled dictation included. WRTR actually includes more analysis of words, markings, etc which might be more of what you are looking for.

 

FWIW.......my most logical kids are my worst spellers. :tongue_smilie: ;)

[cmb6]

8Filltheheart, I love your screen name.

 

The stone thing was a bad example. I know that some of spelling is memorizing which of several possible spellings a word uses.

Even in instances where there is no perfect rule, it would be helpful to have a discussion of what the possibilities are, and lists so DS can see the pattern. Long O inside a closed syllable might be OA or O silent E, but it won't be OW; it might be -OLT, -OLD, -OLL, but those lists can be memorized as lists rather than discrete, randomly encountered words.

 

What I mean is that when there is a pattern, I would like to see it addressed explicitly. For instance, AAS has a sample page on initial /k/ where it goes over c+e,i=softening, then recommends trying "c" first to see if it works, and then if it doesn't work because of the softening, students should use "k." (Although I can think of exceptions: kale, for one.) On top of that, I've been pointing out to DS that /k/ from Greek is usually spelled "ch."

 

I guess I mean that I want a program that sees his analytical strength as a strength for spelling, that emphasizes a deep understanding of why English words work the way they do rather than *just* how to spell them.

 

I will go check out both programs. It's so nice to have all the suggestions. Thank you so very much! This is (one of the reasons) I love hs, this ability to tailor to the way DS learns.

 

Heather

[8filltheheart]

8Filltheheart, I love your screen name.

 

The stone thing was a bad example. I know that some of spelling is memorizing which of several possible spellings a word uses.

Even in instances where there is no perfect rule, it would be helpful to have a discussion of what the possibilities are, and lists so DS can see the pattern. Long O inside a closed syllable might be OA or O silent E, but it won't be OW; it might be -OLT, -OLD, -OLL, but those lists can be memorized as lists rather than discrete, randomly encountered words.

 

What I mean is that when there is a pattern, I would like to see it addressed explicitly. For instance, AAS has a sample page on initial /k/ where it goes over c+e,i=softening, then recommends trying "c" first to see if it works, and then if it doesn't work because of the softening, students should use "k." (Although I can think of exceptions: kale, for one.) On top of that, I've been pointing out to DS that /k/ from Greek is usually spelled "ch."

 

I guess I mean that I want a program that sees his analytical strength as a strength for spelling, that emphasizes a deep understanding of why English words work the way they do rather than *just* how to spell them.

 

I will go check out both programs. It's so nice to have all the suggestions. Thank you so very much! This is (one of the reasons) I love hs, this ability to tailor to the way DS learns.

 

Heather

 

LOL......Heather, I have 2 of the world's worst spellers, so it took me less than a split second (literally) to come up with an example where ow is used in a closed syllable to say long o......grown. ;)

 

I being quite literal when I say my kids know all the spelling rules inside, outside, upside down, and sideways! :lol: You can't reverse into spelling unless they know which phonogram to use. Knowing language roots helps. Knowing rules does give them correct phonograms to select as options. But, once you reach words that are beyond say a 4th grade reading level, it takes a lot more than simply knowing the rules to know how to spell.

 

I don't have time right now, but once you start delving into sounds hard than initial hard c, multiple phonograms options exist. (a quick example is sh in the middle of a word.)

 

ETA: Jeepers......I'm not even going to bother editing this post. Please excuse all the mistakes. I am multi-tasking (read....Christmas shopping online) and am very sleep deprived from a double whammy of a teething baby who is sick on top of it.

Edited November 27, 2010 by 8FillTheHeart

[Tracy]

I am using SWR for dd5. She is reading well above grade level, and is a very rule-oriented child. She really enjoys learning all of the phonograms and rules. I chose SWR over AAS simply because of the price. SWR is not all laid out for you like AAS is. And you can expect to take ample time to figure out how to implement the program and the take additional time to tailor it to your advanced learner. One of the problems that I have with SWR is that there is little help from either the manual or the Yahoo Group to make accommodations for gifted child. That said, the program is very flexible, and I have found it to be very easy to use once I understood some of the concepts. I have a review of SWR on my blog.

[Dinsfamily]

I also use SWR for my ds6. I chose it over AAS because it's more flexible and moves faster. My ds would have been bored with the pace of AAS. He likes SWR, especially the rules and markings. We are going through the program at the suggested pace which is fine for my mathy boy and his spelling is improving beyond the level of the words he's learning in SWR. I do suspect that I'll have to start further into the lists with ds4. Language is his gifting and he can easily spell the early lists already with an understanding of the rules and phonograms.

[ElizabethB]

It's not a complete program, but it sounds like he would enjoy my charts and my spelling and syllable division rules (linked at the end of my how to tutor page.) The charts are based on the Hanna Study of the most common 17,000 words in English. A good book based on this study that goes into rules and has lists and exceptions of each word is "The ABCs and All Their Tricks."

 

Also, here are some good websites with more spelling rules.

[cdgni]

This is an adult book, but might make teaching rules easier.

The ABC's and All Their Tricks: The Complete Reference Book of Phonics and Spelling

 

Edited to add.. oops.. I posted and then saw the book was already referenced!

[PeterPan]

Ditto on not using AAS with him, mercy. I'm using it with my dd, but she's not like him, lol. We used SWR for years, and it might be fine (only might) if he's not too combative. However what you might find simpler is to put him in a traditional workbook series (doesn't WTM recommend Spelling Workout?) for everyday, and then keep something like HTTS and the ABC's and All Their Tricks books on hand to answer his more detailed questions. I'm using HTTS to kick AAS up about 3 notches, and it indeed will answer his questions and give you those word lists. It's kind of annoying for everyday implementation, which is why he might prefer just a more straightforward, independent-style workbook. Lots of ways to get to the same place. I think you're going to find when you start answering his questions he FLIES and doesn't need the extreme analysis of SWR to make everything stick. A few rules, lots of reading, and he'll just take off. Try the workbooks plus a resource to answer his questions.

[cmb6]

Thanks, everyone, so very much for the replies.

I am leaning toward HTTS plus the ABC’s book. I’m hopeful that the combination will give us just as much structure as he needs to get the spelling correct, and the opportunity to go deeper when he wants to know WHY. I’m a little bit wary of anything too scripted that needs too much editing on my part to fit our learning.

In any case, thanks. I knew this forum would be the right crowd to ask.

Heather