advice about MEP year 1, second half

[stripe]

This thread has ceased to be about my concerns about MEP and has become a thread in favor of coloring. Please enter forwarned.

Edited November 27, 2010 by stripe

[Spy Car]

I've been doing MEP year 1 with my son but took about a two month break, around the time between the lessons on numbers up to 10 and numbers between 10 and 20. He had been really finding MEP lessons to be interesting AND fun. But when we returned to it (which unfortunately was too long of a break), the lessons seem to be very boring to him AND frankly to me as well. Tons of color in the evens red and those with 2 digits yellow and whatnot, type of questions, and it has sort of become a big drag, whereas the ones to 10 were very thought-provoking and puzzley. Coloring is not a welcome activity, and these are just boooring. How can I get the gist of the lessons without skipping too much?

 

I looked at y2 early lessons and some of them seem very similar to the end of y1.

 

Since we are doing MEP as a "supplement" I have had not problem skipping particular problems if they didn't bring something special to the table, including some in MEP 1B.

 

When it comes to "coloring" I was really skeptical of what seemed to me like an inordinate amount of coloring done in my son's Kindergarten class last year. To me it seemed really excessive. But in that year my son's handwriting went from a rough scrawl to very neat writing. And his improvement was typical of the whole class. My thoughts about coloring did a 180.

 

Bill

[stripe]

I did read that you'd said that, and I can see that it's a valuable skill, but I honestly don't have the time or patience to sit through coloring sessions such as those required on many of the 13-20 pages such as y1 pb1b2 p115 or 119. Seriously, after 15 minutes and only doing a few, I have to move on. I don't know if it's a boy thing (?), but I have convinced him to do a bit of coloring, but this (50 problems at a time) is just way too much.

 

 

The amount of boring coloring in y1's second half is making me want to drop MEP for a while, honestly, at least for a while.

 

I await further words of wisdom.

[MissKNG]

Yikes! I would never make my big girl do all of those problems! What about letting your kiddo pick a column or two to complete and be done with it? Or if you want to complete the whole thing, do a column today, one tomorrow and so on.

Edited November 26, 2010 by MissKNG

[eloquacious]

How about telling your son to do a color dot, check mark, or colored x in each square, rather than coloring in the whole square? That way he's doing the math and you can check the answers, but it doesn't take quite as long.

 

I believe wholeheartedly that coloring and drawing is important for handwriting, especially given this cool video I saw on teachers.tv about French handwriting lessons, but I suspect that "free" or "creative" coloring might be more effective than "color in the square" drudgery.

[stripe]

You know, I just looked ahead, and there seem to be far fewer of these than in the first part of y1pb1b2, but the problems just still lack something sort of fun and exciting that the first part had, that my child really liked.

 

Because I've taken a break to do math games and Math Mammoth sample pages for a few weeks, and stuff from other sources, to see if I should stick with MEP or take a break for a while.

Edited November 26, 2010 by stripe

[skueppers]

I don't know if it's a boy thing (?), but I have convinced him to do a bit of coloring, but this (50 problems at a time) is just way too much.

 

It's not a boy thing. My daughter did a similar exercise with a friend last week (it was a clown to color in, but same basic concept), and it was definitely too much. She could easily have done 50 math problems, but 50 math problems and all that coloring was just not reasonable.

 

The reason she was doing it was to keep her friend company; the friend had the sheet for homework from school.

 

Edited to add: There's no reason you can't skip the stuff you don't see the point in. This particular exercise looks like an arithmetic drill; you could easily substitute some other type of math drill, like a game.

[Joyofsixreboot]

It just totally depends on the kid. My 1st grade did that sheet the other day for 'fun' not her regular math. My boy would have lost his mind. I might have talked him into colored check marks with markers. It is to be noted he hates handwriting, coloring, cutting, etc. Maybe I should insist.

[Cindyz]

One thing I tell my son to make tasks like this a bit easier is to first go through and write all of the answers to the problems. Then he can go back and color all of the reds, then all of the greens, etc. It's easier than picking up and putting down different colored pencils over and over again. My son insists on following all of the directions as written so if I tried to tell him to just put an X, he would cry. lol!

[Spy Car]

One thing I tell my son to make tasks like this a bit easier is to first go through and write all of the answers to the problems. Then he can go back and color all of the reds, then all of the greens, etc. It's easier than picking up and putting down different colored pencils over and over again. My son insists on following all of the directions as written so if I tried to tell him to just put an X, he would cry. lol!

 

My 6 year old is much the same. Maybe not cry, but he would protest that we were not following directions. :lol:

 

Bill

[Cindyz]

My 6 year old is much the same. Maybe not cry, but he would protest that we were not following directions. :lol:

 

Bill

 

Yes, it's harder to fool him to make things go quicker now that he can read. :) He will often say, "The guys who made this book are NOT going to like that! That's not what they said to do!". Or when we finish a book or workbook he will ask me when we are going to show it to the people who made the book. I actually try not to make too many deviations from the directions because I do want him to be able to read and follow directions as given when necessary and not decide that it's ok to change things to make them easier on a whim.

[kalanamak]

But in that year my son's handwriting went from a rough scrawl to very neat writing. And his improvement was typical of the whole class.

 

 

Pssssssst: that happens around that age.:gnorsi:

[kalanamak]

I

 

The amount of boring coloring in y1's second half is making me want to drop MEP for a while, honestly, at least for a while.

 

I await further words of wisdom.

 

When I hit such a thing, I do it verbally. He reads the problems and tells me the answers as he goes. Or, for 1:1 correlation, he could tell me the color it should be colored. Or, makes a check of that color with a pencil.

[Spy Car]

Pssssssst: that happens around that age.:gnorsi:

 

Or not. I've seen some pretty sloppy handwriting with 5 and 6 year olds.

 

Mrs M (our Kindergarten teacher last year) has been teaching at this school so long that my 21 year-old niece (who graduated from Barnard-Colombia this year) also had her for Kindergarten. Mrs M is convinced all the coloring (and cutting with scissors) is vital to the motor skill development needed for handwriting.

 

I've said it before, but I groused a little at home about our son attending "coloring school." But I really came around. I was glad I could "outsource" this activity :D, but the improvements were so drastic that I don't think it was just a function of being 8 months older. All the coloring (with colored pencils) I think really paid off.

 

The recommendation to do a lot of coloring with colored pencils at this age is also the recommendation of Bruce Smith of the SmithHand handwriting program.

 

I think they are onto something.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Yes, it's harder to fool him to make things go quicker now that he can read. :) He will often say, "The guys who made this book are NOT going to like that! That's not what they said to do!". Or when we finish a book or workbook he will ask me when we are going to show it to the people who made the book. I actually try not to make too many deviations from the directions because I do want him to be able to read and follow directions as given when necessary and not decide that it's ok to change things to make them easier on a whim.

 

Clones :D

 

Bill

[Halcyon]

How about telling your son to do a color dot, check mark, or colored x in each square, rather than coloring in the whole square? That way he's doing the math and you can check the answers, but it doesn't take quite as long.

 

I believe wholeheartedly that coloring and drawing is important for handwriting, especially given this cool video I saw on teachers.tv about French handwriting lessons, but I suspect that "free" or "creative" coloring might be more effective than "color in the square" drudgery.

 

 

hijack-do you have a link to that video?

[stripe]

OK, I appreciate the pro-coloring advice, but, although I have tried to encourage coloring, I just can't expect him to color in 50 different little rectangles. It's boring and takes forever. I cannot make him love coloring. I am working on motor skills in other ways. Whatever great things could happen, aren't. So, while I understand some people love to promote coloring, can anyone who has used MEP in the second half of y1 offer any advice about that aspect?

 

Sorry to sound grumpy, but I really am having a problem about the content of MEP in this semester.

[redsquirrel]

Do these particular problems call for the pupil to do every one? I know in MEP year 5 it was clear that the problems were meant to be done by 5 or 6 students. I would have my son do 4 or 5 of a list and call it good.

 

I also remember the MEP teaching videos on their site discuss not expecting students to do do all of the problems. They tell the teacher to call 'time' and move on. That was obviously for a classroom situation but it made me comfortable telling my son that he only had to do half or whatever.

 

I appologize if this suggestion makes no sense given the expectations given in year 1. I guess I will find out soon, we finish reception some time next month.

[kalanamak]

Or not. I've seen some pretty sloppy handwriting with 5 and 6 year olds.

 

 

 

Well, my son would NOT color *until* his hand skills were better, so his product was better. But he had beautiful handwriting for his age, with a big leap right at the beginning of 6.

 

I won't believe it without a controlled double blind....:D

 

(P.s. I have a joke: What is triple blind study?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The patients don't know what they are taking

The nurses don't know what they are giving

The researchers don't know what they are doing.

[Spy Car]

OK, I appreciate the pro-coloring advice, but, although I have tried to encourage coloring, I just can't expect him to color in 50 different little rectangles. It's boring and takes forever. I cannot make him love coloring. I am working on motor skills in other ways. Whatever great things could happen, aren't. So, while I understand some people love to promote coloring, can anyone who has used MEP in the second half of y1 offer any advice about that aspect?

 

Sorry to sound grumpy, but I really am having a problem about the content of MEP in this semester.

 

I would (and have) skip(ed) problems in MEP. Why not skip those that you and he find boring, especially if you are covering the basic skill in other ways? If you do feel the skill still needs to be worked on then modify the lessons, make your own, or use another source for that topic.

 

There is so much in MEP that is highly interesting that I wouldn't left an awkward section put you off the whole program. Unless you really don't think the program is working for you and your son.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Well, my son would NOT color *until* his hand skills were better, so his product was better. But he had beautiful handwriting for his age, with a big leap right at the beginning of 6.

 

I won't believe it without a controlled double blind....:D

 

(P.s. I have a joke: What is triple blind study?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The patients don't know what they are taking

The nurses don't know what they are giving

The researchers don't know what they are doing.

 

Lol :lol:

 

Bill

[nmoira]

The amount of boring coloring in y1's second half is making me want to drop MEP for a while, honestly, at least for a while.

I have my 6yo do these, but she just "colours" a blot over the expression in the box... it takes a second, tops.

 

You could cut them all out prior to the lesson and have your child sort them into groups.

[Snowfall]

Hmm...you know, I'd thought that the reason my daughter started hating MEP was because the math got harder for her once we started crossing 10, so the puzzles just put her over the top. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't more the sort of thing you're referring to - drudgery! I remember her being PISSED about that same worksheet. We just didn't do it, and we quit MEP very shortly after that. Maybe it wasn't the issue of puzzles, which she'd always liked before. When we had a busy day and she'd been given a choice between MEP and Rightstart, she'd always chosen MEP - up until the second half of year 1. Maybe it was more just drudgery that got her hating it. I hadn't ever considered that. Either way, we dropped MEP. I would like to have continued with it, but I'm thinking we'll be doing RS and Math Mammoth instead. Right now we do RS for our main program, Horizons worksheets, and Hello Kitty clock and money worksheets. Oh, and MM Blue series Measurement. :-) I spend a lot of time looking for things to reinforce what we learn in RS. DD needs it.

[nmoira]

 

I don't know if it's a boy thing (?), but I have convinced him to do a bit of coloring, but this (50 problems at a time) is just way .

Sorry, I missed this in my earlier response. The child isn't expected to "do" all of those problems. Many are obviously out of the ball park and can be skipped without further consideration. For example, by this point the child should have a good idea whether any two numbers will sum to ten or more.

[nmoira]

The recommendation to do a lot of coloring with colored pencils at this age is also the recommendation of Bruce Smith of the SmithHand handwriting program.

Regardless, I would not require colouring in math, or any other subject for that matter. Fortunately, colouring "neatly and within the lines" isn't necessary to complete any MEP exercise I've seen thus far.

[Spy Car]

Regardless, I would not require colouring in math, or any other subject for that matter. Fortunately, colouring "neatly and within the lines" isn't necessary to complete any MEP exercise I've seen thus far.

 

You have obviously never met Mrs M. :D

 

Bill

[nmoira]

You have obviously never met Mrs M. :D

I keenly remember being forced to colour in K. The bile still rises a bit at the thought.

 

I do cover formal drawing techniques, but colouring is not required until there's a reason for it, like mapwork. Even then, there is no reason to colour the oceans a rich blue when a light, quick stroke will suffice unless they child chooses to do so. Sometimes they do. That said, we keep plenty of paper, pencils (coloured and otherwise), markers, pens, etc. at the girls' disposal.

[stripe]

Hmm...you know, I'd thought that the reason my daughter started hating MEP was because the math got harder for her once we started crossing 10, so the puzzles just put her over the top. Now I'm wondering if it wasn't more the sort of thing you're referring to - drudgery! I remember her being PISSED about that same worksheet..

Yes. I never did "make" him do all the problems in that exercise -- I was feeling tired of watching him after about 5, and it was just taking too long. It became about the coloring, not the math, which seemed to be a mistake to me. I can see that some of them have you determine two things about the answer, namely, the number of digits and whether it's even or odd, and two parts are colored (e.g. a square and a triangle on top to make a house shape). I get that determining two things about a number is good. But whereas the suggestion to play 20 questions type games about numbers was a HUGE hit, most of the exercises in this section are a) repetitive and b) boring. Every day the problems are almost exactly the same. Yawn.

 

Just as you say, my son used to love MEP and concoct MEP like problems on his own, for fun. No more.

[boscopup]

It became about the coloring, not the math, which seemed to be a mistake to me.

 

This is what my son experienced in Saxon 1 at school. Everyday on his class and homework sheets, there is a word problem that tells him to draw a number of some type of objects, then either add or subtract a number of them. Sometimes it will be things like "draw 5 kids in a pool... 3 got out" or "draw 3 girls riding bikes... 2 boys riding bikes come along". My son is not an artist, but he is a perfectionist. He tries his best to draw these things as stated, and he totally ignores the math behind it (he can do the problems without drawing, so understanding is already there). At home, he does Math Mammoth, which sometimes would have you drawing more of an object that it shows there (like there are 3 carrots, and you add 2 more), but I told him he can just do tick marks. A degree in art should not be required in order to do math. :tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, and I skip problems regularly in MM. I'm sure you could easily do that in MEP as well. I assign half the problems, or if it were something like the example you gave, I'd just assign a certain number of rows or columns.

 

You are the teacher. You can decide what gets done. And remember that even in traditional schools, teachers don't assign *all* the problems! At my son's school, there is no homework assigned on Wednesday nights, and first grade doesn't have homework on Friday nights. So of 5 Saxon homework sheets, only 3 are ever done. If there is a holiday, there may be more left undone. My son comes home with grammar worksheet packets where the last 3 pages weren't done at all. The point of education is to get a particular topic mastered, not to do every single problem on every single page. If your child doesn't need to do a problem in order to master the concept, there is no need to make them do it!

[TCB]

Sorry if this is kind of a hi-jack but I'm finding the discussion on coloring and handwriting very interesting. My dd6 is pretty reluctant to write even though she reads and spells well. I really think it is to do with the mechanics of it all and I've been starting to think that finger strengthening/ co-ordination exercises would be good. Interesting to hear!!

I reallly like it that you can look at a thread to learn more about one thing (MEP) and also learn so much other good interesting stuff.

Sorry Hi-jack over.:001_smile:

[Spy Car]

Sorry if this is kind of a hi-jack but I'm finding the discussion on coloring and handwriting very interesting. My dd6 is pretty reluctant to write even though she reads and spells well. I really think it is to do with the mechanics of it all and I've been starting to think that finger strengthening/ co-ordination exercises would be good. Interesting to hear!!

I reallly like it that you can look at a thread to learn more about one thing (MEP) and also learn so much other good interesting stuff.

Sorry Hi-jack over.:001_smile:

 

Colored pencils. Small movements.

 

Play on!

 

Bill

[TCB]

Colored pencils. Small movements.

 

Play on!

 

Bill

 

 

I'm going to give it a try. Maybe not a double-blind study but it will be interesting to me.

[Spy Car]

If you think of it give me an update in 6 months, and let me know what you think. I know I went from skeptic to believer.

 

Bill

Edited November 27, 2010 by Spy Car

[TCB]

Will do. I'm going to be interested to see what happens.

[FO4UR]

OP: I just modify the activity if needed. Rather than coloring evens red/odds green...just have dc mark the evens (or odds) by underlining. Instead of coloring in the rectangles, mark with a line or a circle or a triangle...something very simple and quick.

[Poke Salad Annie]

Coming in really late here, but will add my experience.

 

My son really loved all the coloring and working through the problems. He loves to look for patterns in the puzzle--I don't know why, but it's kind something he enjoys. I didn't skip any of those exercises. They would have been the same as doing a page or so of Ray's or Strayer-Upton problems. The fact that there was a bit of coloring thrown in only added to the excitement here. Go figure...

 

I hope that the coloring part doesn't deter you from using MEP. We are noticing that it's getting harder as we move along, and Yr. 3 is taking much longer than Yr. 2. FWIW, I don't remember Yr. 1 as being too boring---at least that was our experience. Maybe just try to pick and choose some of the exercises which interest your child. That may spark his interest again. Hope you have better days ahead with math. You certainly don't want that subject to become a drudgery! ;)