Need direction... curric for child w/autism...

[specialmama]

So I *may* be homeschooling both of my kids. My son has been going to a "great" program in the public school, but it is not "great" this year. Something has to change. So tomorrow morning I'm going to a homeschool store to sit and go through lots of material. I'm not sure what I will get, but I'm looking for some direction, or at least a "look at that" recommendation for LA* and math. Here's the details:

 

• he is 9, but functioning at about a grade 3 level in writing.
  
• he is a visual and hands-on learner
  
• focus is his weak spot; lessons need to be engaging and short
  
• responds well to simple, colourful pages (think pre-school)
  
• not sure where he is in math, but he's still adding and subtracting single (sometimes double) digits. He can count to 100.
  

*He does not need penmanship/handwriting at all. The kid can mimic each of the computer's 400 fonts perfectly. He doesn't need spelling either. It's mostly writing and reading comprehension that he needs for LA.

 

So what should I look at for LA and math? What do you think would be a good fit?

Edited November 25, 2010 by specialmama
to save a kitten's life

[chiguirre]

I can tell you what's worked for my ds, but that may or may not help. He's been doing well with MUS for a year and I think it's a keeper for us. I'm surprised by how little trouble he's had learning to add with regrouping, I dreaded it.

 

If you still need to solidify reading skills, Rewards worked well for ds. You may be beyond this stage. Rewards works on reading comprehension, but the bulk of it is phonics/word attack.

 

Ds's reading has improved by reading fairly easy books and having me ask questions after every page or two. If he misses the question, he has to look for it on the page.

 

My ds's hwing is not near age level. We're doing Queen's Language Lessons for the Very Young and that's a good fit for him copywork wise. The grammar lessons and picture studies are gentle, but he is getting the concepts and doesn't fuss when I pull out the book, which is always a plus.

 

We did SL 1/2 last year which worked alright. This year we're loosely doing OM2 and listening to lots of audio books. It's been very low key, but ds has really enjoyed it.

[MamaSheep]

Kids with autism are so different from each other. Like Julianna I can tell you what I've found works best at my house, but would hesitate to predict how it would go for someone else.

 

I'm really liking Math U See too, for both of my kids. I like how it explains how things work and why in an incremental, logical manner and doesn't skip around from topic to topic just as they're starting to get a grasp on it. I like that you can expand or contract the lessons to suit the child by deciding how many pages of practice and/or systematic review the child needs before moving on to the next lesson. I like that the pages themselves are uncluttered and the number of problems on a page is reasonably compatible with my kids' attention span so we don't get too frustrated just getting through it. I like the videos because Mr. Demme explains it all and I don't generally have to, which is nice for a change. And the manipulatives have really helped dd especially.

 

We also used Teaching Textbooks for ds for a couple of years, which worked for use then as he was relating better in some ways to computers than to people. I think we will be moving ahead with MUS instead, but I still like TT too.

 

For penmanship, I like Handwriting Without Tears. Both of my kids came home from public school unable to write legibly and without huge levels of frustration and resistance. HWT has helped with all of those issues tremendously. It's not the most elegant script, but again, it is presented in a logical, clear, step-by-step manner with uncluttered pages and a reasonable amount of work for these kids per assignment.

 

I'm loving All About Spelling too. Again, it presents the concepts in a logical, step-by-step manner with each lesson building on the ideas presented previously. Also, for my kids with handwriting difficulties it's wonderful for them to be able to do the spelling lessons with the letter tiles. It allows them to focus on the spelling rather than having to fight their handwriting and try to spell simultaneously. Then, when they have the spelling down, they can write the words without so much stress, and all is happy in our world.

 

For the composition end of writing, honestly what I have found most useful are SWB's audio lectures on writing. Every actual writing program we've tried has been utter disaster. But just taking the philosophies and approach from the lectures and winging it, things seem to be improving steadily. I don't think writing will ever be ds's forte, but I am beginning to think that by the end of high school he may be able to write a decent essay and research paper, which is more than I'd hoped for previously.

 

Grammar is another area I don't have super duper recommendations for. Ds generally uses very proper, academic sounding grammar when he speaks, and there were so many other areas that needed serious work when he was nine that I just opted not to do grammar. Last year we watched the Schoolhouse Rock videos and called it good for both of the kids, because again, bigger fish to fry. This year is the first year we're really buckling down on grammar. I'm using Analytical Grammar for ds, though we are going through more slowly than what's recommended, and I'm having him do about half of it verbally because of his continuing issues with handwriting. But again, it goes through the concepts in a logical, step-by-step manner, each lesson building on the ones before (I've found this to be the best approach for my Aspie, as you may have noticed). I wouldn't recommend it for a nine year-old, though. I have not looked at the "junior" materials, though, so maybe those would work. For dd I'm using some free grammar worksheets from Scott-Foresman, but I'm not really liking them. I'm going to finish out the year with them, but won't be using them again.

 

HTH

[merry gardens]

So I *may* be homeschooling both of my kids. My son has been going to a "great" program in the public school, but it is not "great" this year. Something has to change. So tomorrow morning I'm going to a homeschool store to sit and go through lots of material. I'm not sure what I will get, but I'm looking for some direction, or at least a "look at that" recommendation for LA* and math. Here's the details:

 

• he is 9, but functioning at about a grade 3 level in writing.

• he is a visual and hands-on learner

• focus is his weak spot; lessons need to be engaging and short

• responds well to simple, colourful pages (think pre-school)

• not sure where he is in math, but he's still adding and subtracting single (sometimes double) digits. He can count to 100.

*He does not need penmanship/handwriting at all. The kid can mimic each of the computer's 400 fonts perfectly. He doesn't need spelling either. It's mostly writing and reading comprehension that he needs for LA.

 

So what should I look at for LA and math? What do you think would be a good fit?

For reading comprehension, I suggest you look at programs like IdeaChain by Mindprime or Visualizing and Verbalizing by Lindamood-Bell.

[Laurie]

My dd is using Learning Language Arts Through Literature and the length of each lesson isn't overwhelming for her. You can see the scope and sequence and sample lessons here:

http://www.commonsensepress.com/covers.htm

 

She really likes grammar so we're also using Easy Grammar.

 

And for Math...Teaching Textbooks.

[specialmama]

Ds's reading has improved by reading fairly easy books and having me ask questions after every page or two. If he misses the question, he has to look for it on the page.

 

My ds's hwing is not near age level. We're doing Queen's Language Lessons for the Very Young and that's a good fit for him copywork wise. The grammar lessons and picture studies are gentle, but he is getting the concepts and doesn't fuss when I pull out the book, which is always a plus.

 

 

Julianna, thank you so much for this!

I looked at Queen's Language Lessons and they look charming and gentle. I like the fact that it encompasses so much: the art and poetry, the copywork and grammar. The questions asked about the artwork build around comprehension and imagination too, which is a bonus for a child with autism! The shortness of lessons is nice too. I hadn't heard of this before, and I'm thinking it might be a better fit for him than WWE & FLL, which I looked at yesterday. Right now I'm loving the fact that my personality can easily align with classical or CM methods/philosophies. :D

Thank you again for your sharing what works for you and your child.

[specialmama]

Kids with autism are so different from each other. Like Julianna I can tell you what I've found works best at my house, but would hesitate to predict how it would go for someone else. Absolutely agree and I apprecite your sharing what works for you!

 

I'm really liking Math U See too, for both of my kids. I like how it explains how things work and why in an incremental, logical manner and doesn't skip around from topic to topic just as they're starting to get a grasp on it. I like that you can expand or contract the lessons to suit the child by deciding how many pages of practice and/or systematic review the child needs before moving on to the next lesson. I like that the pages themselves are uncluttered and the number of problems on a page is reasonably compatible with my kids' attention span so we don't get too frustrated just getting through it. I like the videos because Mr. Demme explains it all and I don't generally have to, which is nice for a change. And the manipulatives have really helped dd especially.

 

We also used Teaching Textbooks for ds for a couple of years, which worked for use then as he was relating better in some ways to computers than to people. I think we will be moving ahead with MUS instead, but I still like TT too.

 

For penmanship, I like Handwriting Without Tears. Both of my kids came home from public school unable to write legibly and without huge levels of frustration and resistance. HWT has helped with all of those issues tremendously. It's not the most elegant script, but again, it is presented in a logical, clear, step-by-step manner with uncluttered pages and a reasonable amount of work for these kids per assignment.

 

I'm loving All About Spelling too. Again, it presents the concepts in a logical, step-by-step manner with each lesson building on the ideas presented previously. Also, for my kids with handwriting difficulties it's wonderful for them to be able to do the spelling lessons with the letter tiles. It allows them to focus on the spelling rather than having to fight their handwriting and try to spell simultaneously. Then, when they have the spelling down, they can write the words without so much stress, and all is happy in our world.

 

For the composition end of writing, honestly what I have found most useful are SWB's audio lectures on writing. Every actual writing program we've tried has been utter disaster. But just taking the philosophies and approach from the lectures and winging it, things seem to be improving steadily. I don't think writing will ever be ds's forte, but I am beginning to think that by the end of high school he may be able to write a decent essay and research paper, which is more than I'd hoped for previously.

 

Grammar is another area I don't have super duper recommendations for. Ds generally uses very proper, academic sounding grammar when he speaks, and there were so many other areas that needed serious work when he was nine that I just opted not to do grammar. Last year we watched the Schoolhouse Rock videos and called it good for both of the kids, because again, bigger fish to fry. This year is the first year we're really buckling down on grammar. I'm using Analytical Grammar for ds, though we are going through more slowly than what's recommended, and I'm having him do about half of it verbally because of his continuing issues with handwriting. But again, it goes through the concepts in a logical, step-by-step manner, each lesson building on the ones before (I've found this to be the best approach for my Aspie, as you may have noticed). I wouldn't recommend it for a nine year-old, though. I have not looked at the "junior" materials, though, so maybe those would work. For dd I'm using some free grammar worksheets from Scott-Foresman, but I'm not really liking them. I'm going to finish out the year with them, but won't be using them again.

 

HTH

 

Thank you, Amy, I appreciate this! I understand about the bigger fish to fry, and I'm not sure my son needs a huge grammar.

I like what you said about SWB's writing seminars. I've listened to a few of her talks, but only had my dd in mind at the time. I should listen again with my boy in mind and see what gems I can discover! Thank you! I also have a great friend who does it all SWB method and I shall be picking her brain as well. Thank you for the reminder!

[specialmama]

For reading comprehension, I suggest you look at programs like IdeaChain by Mindprime or Visualizing and Verbalizing by Lindamood-Bell.

 

Wow. Have you used these items? I like how professional they seem, but the price is so steep. I wish there were samples of IdeaChain to see. 20 minutes into looking at V&V I started to cry! I have never seen something that speaks about Hyperlexia and Autism together, and this one does just that. Wow. I'd love to hear about your experiences with the V&V program, and anyone else who has used it. Thank you!

[specialmama]

My dd is using Learning Language Arts Through Literature and the length of each lesson isn't overwhelming for her. You can see the scope and sequence and sample lessons here:

http://www.commonsensepress.com/covers.htm

 

She really likes grammar so we're also using Easy Grammar.

 

And for Math...Teaching Textbooks.

 

 

Thank you for sharing what works for you and your dd, Laurie. I looked at LLATL and although I like it, I don't think my son would be able to do it, even the grade 1 book. *sigh* That kind of made me sad, but I have to remember that every child is different.

I like TT. It's definitely an option. Whether he can sit through the lesson, I have no idea, but it's worth a try on their website. Thank you!

[Laurie]

[*]responds well to simple, colourful pages (think pre-school)

?

 

Maybe there are some Kumon workbooks that might work? I used the cutting workbook with my dd long after she was pre-school aged with no complaints from her but I'm afraid I don't know the range of topics that they offer.

[merry gardens]

Wow. Have you used these items? I like how professional they seem, but the price is so steep. I wish there were samples of IdeaChain to see. 20 minutes into looking at V&V I started to cry! I have never seen something that speaks about Hyperlexia and Autism together, and this one does just that. Wow. I'd love to hear about your experiences with the V&V program, and anyone else who has used it. Thank you!

We're working with IdeaChain right now. I did a lot of research about Visualizing and Verbalizing too. The two programs are very similar, but IdeaChain is more scripted, (which is why I chose it.)

 

I'm doing Idea Chain with three children, and it's taking us longer to get through the program than I had hoped. Part of that is simply because I've trying to teach too much this school year, and we don't get to it everyday. It's also more time consuming to do this in a group than I expected. But I really like it. It's helped me discover and better address some underlying problems. It has helped my children to understand that people should have a better understanding of both reading and conversations going on around them. Two of my children have problems linking language with mental pictures as they sometimes try to use filler words like "things" or hand & body motions instead of words when trying to describe. That's happening a little less now. My children don't have autism, but these programs can benefit

 

We've used Lindamood-Bell materials in the past, including V&V's Vanilla Vocabulary book. I love their programs! My son needed help understanding the meaning of a number of vocabulary words that I had expected he would know.

 

You might like viewing this presentation that Nanci Bell (who wrote V&V) gave to a group at the University of California. She discusses how visualization methods, like those used in V&V, help students with various comprehension problems, including hyperlexia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw65NKe0VmY&NR=1

[JennW in SoCal]

Coming in late here, but wanted to chime in with some words of encouragement from someone who has graduated an Aspie.

 

I never used any language arts curriculum with my ds. I read aloud for years, and kept a bottomless supply of books on whatever topic caught my son's attention. There was no demarcation between reading for school and reading for pleasure -- we just read and discussed all the time. I used whatever we were reading for writing assignments. I followed SWB's advice and did copywork and dictation, choosing sentences from whatever we were reading. My ds didn't start narrations until he was almost 12, which seems late, but he was ready to take off with his writing and was handling essays just fine when he was 14-15. He sometimes wrote for fun, too, when he was younger.

 

I used lots of math manipulatives with him, not necessarily with a matching program. We did Singapore for a long time, and I'd use the manipulatives to demonstrate a concept -- just tried to be creative and logical. I liked Math U See, although I found some of how they teach fractions and algebra to be screwy! I especially likee their workbook pages with lots of empty white space for figuring out problems. A trick I learned from a tutor was to have my ds make up word problems about whatever concept he was learning. There are several math books out there that tie interests and math -- keep your eyes open for those.

 

I happily used many cheap workbooks I'd find at Border's. I also liked Critical Thinking Press's workbooks for various topics.

 

All in all it was just a combination of odds and ends and using my son's interests that got us all the way through high school. That and being patient. My ds advanced in fits and starts, and each time he stalled I freaked out. It was really tough, but we have a close relationship and are both quite happy he was homeschooled.

 

Hope that helps!

[Mom22ns]

Wow. Have you used these items? I like how professional they seem, but the price is so steep. I wish there were samples of IdeaChain to see. 20 minutes into looking at V&V I started to cry! I have never seen something that speaks about Hyperlexia and Autism together, and this one does just that. Wow. I'd love to hear about your experiences with the V&V program, and anyone else who has used it. Thank you!

 

Um, I have never heard of anyone speak of hyperlexia and not include autism. When my ds was diagnosed with hyperlexia, it was not considered a stand alone diagnosis, but was always paired with something on the autistic spectrum.

 

I haven't used any of those language programs, so I can't be of help there, but I know that ds is not the only diagnosed hyperlexic on this board. Misty has one too, a dd that is aspie and hyperlexic.

 

I do use MUS for math as do so many other people with spectrum kids.

[specialmama]

Maybe there are some Kumon workbooks that might work? I used the cutting workbook with my dd long after she was pre-school aged with no complaints from her but I'm afraid I don't know the range of topics that they offer.

Yes, we have the cutting and the folding one. The folding one is great to talk about and play with. I'll have to see what the others are like. Thanks for reminding me!

 

We're working with IdeaChain right now. I did a lot of research about Visualizing and Verbalizing too. The two programs are very similar, but IdeaChain is more scripted, (which is why I chose it.)

 

I'm doing Idea Chain with three children, and it's taking us longer to get through the program than I had hoped. Part of that is simply because I've trying to teach too much this school year, and we don't get to it everyday. It's also more time consuming to do this in a group than I expected. But I really like it. It's helped me discover and better address some underlying problems. It has helped my children to understand that people should have a better understanding of both reading and conversations going on around them. Two of my children have problems linking language with mental pictures as they sometimes try to use filler words like "things" or hand & body motions instead of words when trying to describe. That's happening a little less now. My children don't have autism, but these programs can benefit

 

We've used Lindamood-Bell materials in the past, including V&V's Vanilla Vocabulary book. I love their programs! My son needed help understanding the meaning of a number of vocabulary words that I had expected he would know.

 

You might like viewing this presentation that Nanci Bell (who wrote V&V) gave to a group at the University of California. She discusses how visualization methods, like those used in V&V, help students with various comprehension problems, including hyperlexia. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw65NKe0VmY&NR=1

Thank you! I will be checking that video out during a break today! Can you tell me how the V/V and Idea Chain programs differ? I like the large full colour illustrations in the V/V and I'm so ticked that I can't find any samples of Idea Chain online. I know they have the money back gaurantee, but it's a hassle and I'd probably have to pay a fortune in shipping to return from Canada if we don't like it.

 

Coming in late here, but wanted to chime in with some words of encouragement from someone who has graduated an Aspie.

 

I never used any language arts curriculum with my ds. I read aloud for years, and kept a bottomless supply of books on whatever topic caught my son's attention. There was no demarcation between reading for school and reading for pleasure -- we just read and discussed all the time. I used whatever we were reading for writing assignments. I followed SWB's advice and did copywork and dictation, choosing sentences from whatever we were reading. My ds didn't start narrations until he was almost 12, which seems late, but he was ready to take off with his writing and was handling essays just fine when he was 14-15. He sometimes wrote for fun, too, when he was younger.

Very inspiring, thank you! That would be a dream come true for me! :001_smile:

 

I used lots of math manipulatives with him, not necessarily with a matching program. We did Singapore for a long time, and I'd use the manipulatives to demonstrate a concept -- just tried to be creative and logical. I liked Math U See, although I found some of how they teach fractions and algebra to be screwy!

This is exactly why we stopped using MUS for my dd, I could not handle the way they did fractions! I agree that MUS would be great from Alpha through Delta, but after that they lost me. I found their desire to continue using manipulatives actually detrimental to the program and comprehension in general. We switched from MUS to TT at that point.

I especially like their workbook pages with lots of empty white space for figuring out problems. A trick I learned from a tutor was to have my ds make up word problems about whatever concept he was learning. There are several math books out there that tie interests and math -- keep your eyes open for those. Will do, thanks!

 

I happily used many cheap workbooks I'd find at Border's. I also liked Critical Thinking Press's workbooks for various topics. I've been wanting to look at those as well, so thank you!

All in all it was just a combination of odds and ends and using my son's interests that got us all the way through high school. That and being patient. My ds advanced in fits and starts, and each time he stalled I freaked out. It was really tough, but we have a close relationship and are both quite happy he was homeschooled.

 

Hope that helps!

It does! Thank you for your response!

 

Um, I have never heard of anyone speak of hyperlexia and not include autism. When my ds was diagnosed with hyperlexia, it was not considered a stand alone diagnosis, but was always paired with something on the autistic spectrum.

Yes, what I meant was a curric available for hyperlexics. I've seen a lot for people with autism, but hyperlexia is not typically mentioned. Poor communication on my part. ;)

 

I haven't used any of those language programs, so I can't be of help there, but I know that ds is not the only diagnosed hyperlexic on this board. Misty has one too, a dd that is aspie and hyperlexic.

 

I do use MUS for math as do so many other people with spectrum kids.

Thank you for your input!

 

It is interesting how hyperlexia compounds so many issues, and the facts that many professionals just see the ASD and stop there. I've only ever found ONE speech pathologist out of 50 or so, that know what they're talking about when it comes to the special considerations hyperlexia brings. For my son, the comprehension lags. At the age of 2 he wrote "McNeil's Aerodynamic Machinery" and asked me to draw it. :001_huh: From there he read medical dictionaries and my dh's taxation manuals, but he could not understand what he was reading, nor could he answer any wh questions apart from labelling. Example: after reading a 4-page preschool picturebook, I would ask something simple like "What did the kitten play with?" and he couldn't say. We still struggle with this, so I'm hoping the Idea Chain or V/V will help.

[Mom22ns]

At the age of 2 he wrote "McNeil's Aerodynamic Machinery" and asked me to draw it. :001_huh: From there he read medical dictionaries and my dh's taxation manuals,

:lol::lol::lol: That is a hyperlexic alright.

 

but he could not understand what he was reading, nor could he answer any wh questions apart from labelling. Example: after reading a 4-page preschool picturebook, I would ask something simple like "What did the kitten play with?" and he couldn't say. We still struggle with this, so I'm hoping the Idea Chain or V/V will help.

 

I just want to encourage you from the perspective of a parent with an older hyperlex. Ds couldn't answer any questions other than labeling when he was little. We gradually worked through each type of question, what, who, where, when and finally WHY! Ds now fully comprehends what he reads and can answer any questions. The only questions he still struggles with are those that require him to extrapolate or reason something based on information given. We're working on those and I have no doubt he will get there.

[specialmama]

I just want to encourage you from the perspective of a parent with an older hyperlex. Ds couldn't answer any questions other than labeling when he was little. We gradually worked through each type of question, what, who, where, when and finally WHY! Ds now fully comprehends what he reads and can answer any questions. The only questions he still struggles with are those that require him to extrapolate or reason something based on information given. We're working on those and I have no doubt he will get there.

 

 

Debbie, that is very encouraging, thank you SO much for sharing! I do have hope! :hurray: