Does anyone NOT teach cursive?

[boymama]

I am thinking that kids don't need cursive anymore, since they do more typing. Is anyone NOT going to teach cursive and emphasize typing skills?

[boscopup]

I would recommend at least teaching them to read cursive, as many people use cursive to write personal notes/letters. My son hasn't learned cursive yet (I will teach him probably toward the end of second grade), and when he got a thank you note from a lady he'd given a gift to, I had to read it to him. He doesn't know the cursive letters at all.

[RachelFlores]

I agree that typing skills are much more important than learning cursive, but I want to give my children the best education possible so I want my children to at least be able to read cursive before they go to highschool. I feel it is an important skill they should at least be introduced to.

 

I had some major fine motor skill problems growing up. I had a horrible time with handwriting. Consequently I still print, but at least I can read cursive. I see some similarities with dd. We are currently using HWT and I will keep using the program, but IF dd doesn't seem phisically ready to learn cursive (still struggling with print) in 3rd grade I will dely it till she seems ready or shows a lot of interest.

[Spy Car]

I'm horribly old-fashioned, but I still see the ability to send hand-written thank you cards (and actually doing it) as part of the education and etiquette of a young gentle-person. Thank you e-mails IMO just don't cut it.

 

Bill (off to do a cursive lesson. Literally)

[Firefly]

I don't teach cursive aside from signing their names and playing around with it in art (calligraphy and D'Nealian). I don't use it so I didn't see the point in teaching the DC. However, they DO know how to read it. So far no one has had any problems with receiving our thank you notes in printed handwriting instead of cursive. ;)

[swimmermom3]

Even though I am a bit old-fashioned when it comes to things like writing in cursive (I always do), I decided that my boys did not need it. Now that they are in 7th and 10th, I have changed my tune. They can barely read it and frankly, as Bill pointed out, it looks better in a thank you not. I would still rather have a printed note rather than none at all, but cursive implies a certain level of "finishing," just as the use of punctuation and capitals implies to me a certain level of education and discipline. It pains me to discover that I have developed a punctuation disorder these days.

 

I am so old-fashioned; the boys are learning Palmer cursive.:D

[Mandy in TN]

Cursive is a dying art form. I do not spend great amounts of time teaching beautiful cursive, because the only time I ever write in cursive is to sign a check. We spend much more time typing. Even my 8yo types at least as fast as he writes- if not faster.

 

My older boys both went through a 2 cursive workbooks- a basic instruction book and a practice book. After that I never required that they write in cursive. My youngest is currently going through a basic instruction book and my extra student is going through a practice book.

 

I do not require the littles to write in any particular way on assignments. The primary goal of a lesson is that the answers are correct/ thoughtful/ well constructed. The secondary goal of a lesson is that it is completed in a reasonable timeframe. These two goals sometimes require that a student be able to use a writing implement to form legible letters/ numbers. However, I only require it to be legible. I am much, much more interested in accuracy and speed than I am in how pretty the page looks.

 

I do want them to be able to read cursive. To this end my extra student's memory cards are in a cursive font and my 8yo's are in bradley hand with the goal of switching them to a cursive font next year.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[forty-two]

I just don't see typing skills as a viable *replacement* for handwriting skills. For one, printing legibly is slower than writing legible cursive, and that is going to hurt them on the SAT, AP, and other standardized tests that are timed and require extended handwritten responses. And despite handwriting officially not being graded, the whole thing's subjective and thoughts in beautiful handwriting just come across as better than thoughts in messy handwriting.

 

And being able to take rapid legible notes is a skill worth having - what if you can't afford a computer to take notes on, or you can't always sit by an outlet, or you have a prof that bans them in his class, or you just find it is easier to organize your thoughts on paper than on the computer?

 

And I've noticed in many fields that people are finding that trying to skip the old pen & paper step and go straight to the computer - pen/paper arithmetic vs calculators, autoCAD vs hand-drafting, typing vs handwriting, for a few that I've seen - just doesn't work. The perils of going to a calculator too soon are well documented here ;). And, interestingly, with drafting, they've found that people who learned it old-school, who mastered drawing by hand, had no problem translating those skills to computer drawing programs. But younger engineers, who had done little or no hand drafting before moving to autoCAD, had far greater trouble with visualizing what they wanted to do. And there seems to be similar evidence of that for handwriting - that students who cannot write in a rapid, legible way for an extended time suffer in comparison to those that can, even when computers are the primary means of "writing" for most tasks. There's apparently something about *doing*, with one's hands, that forms connections in the brain that the computer equivalent just doesn't do.

 

Anyway, that's why I'm going to focus on handwriting quite a bit. (I formed most of these opinions from reading posts and associated links on Kitchen Table Math - here are some posts on handwriting, for those interested in more than my bare assertions ;).)

[Mandy in TN]

I just don't see typing skills as a viable *replacement* for handwriting skills. For one, printing legibly is slower than writing legible cursive, and that is going to hurt them on the SAT, AP, and other standardized tests that are timed and require extended handwritten responses. And despite handwriting officially not being graded, the whole thing's subjective and thoughts in beautiful handwriting just come across as better than thoughts in messy handwriting.

 

And being able to take rapid legible notes is a skill worth having - what if you can't afford a computer to take notes on, or you can't always sit by an outlet, or you have a prof that bans them in his class, or you just find it is easier to organize your thoughts on paper than on the computer?

I would argue the part in red and strongly agree with the part in blue. My oldest seldom writes in cursive, but he can write in print quickly and legibly. His preference for print didn't stop him from going to college on a full scholarship.

 

And, interestingly, with drafting, they've found that people who learned it old-school, who mastered drawing by hand, had no problem translating those skills to computer drawing programs. But younger engineers, who had done little or no hand drafting before moving to autoCAD, had far greater trouble with visualizing what they wanted to do.

As someone who has taken college level drafting, autoCAD, and has a dyslexic child, I can explain this one. Drafting uses large muscle groups. You work on large paper and tend to use more than just your hand. This imprints the work in your mind just like big arming letters uses the large muscle groups in the arm to imprint the construction of letters in a dyslexic student's mind.

 

And there seems to be similar evidence of that for handwriting - that students who cannot write in a rapid, legible way for an extended time suffer in comparison to those that can, even when computers are the primary means of "writing" for most tasks. There's apparently something about *doing*, with one's hands, that forms connections in the brain that the computer equivalent just doesn't do.

Rapid and legible can be in print as well as cursive. Also, handwriting that primarily uses just the small muscles of the hand will not make the same connections as an activity like drafting or big arming. If you are using your arm muscles to write, then you are indeed writing slowly. While most people retain more when they write something instead of just reading it, that writing doesn't need to be in cursive.

 

I do think that many of today's children don't dig in the dirt or participate in other acitivities that build muscle strength in the hands. This low muscle tone can cause a child to write slowly and to be unable to write for extended periods. If a young child is having problems writing slowly and with their hands becoming tired, instead of having them write more (or avoiding writing) play with play doh, silly putty, poster tack/ adhesive putty. You can also work with a hole punch.

 

Anyway, that's why I'm going to focus on handwriting quite a bit. (I formed most of these opinions from reading posts and associated links on Kitchen Table Math - here are some posts on handwriting, for those interested in more than my bare assertions ;).)

Thanks for the link. I'm off to read.:)

Mandy

[ladydusk]

I found this article interesting: How handwriting trains the brain

[FO4UR]

I teach cursive young. I taught cursive first to my oldest, and my younger two picked up printing before I had a chance to teach them anything. I'm working with my Ker on her cursive this year. My 4yo has learned several cursive letters too.

 

I think it's still a very important skill. It doesn't mean I don't teach typing. I teach both...and young. Both need to be 2nd nature early imho.

[MamaSheep]

I'm teaching my kids cursive, and I think it's good for them in a number of ways, but I will say that when ds was in public school, and then again when I went in to talk with the occupational therapist about some things after we had started homeschooling, I was told that they don't bother teaching the autistic kids, even the high-functioning, very intelligent ones, to write in cursive. They said it was just too hard and confusing with their deficits in motor planning and small muscle coordination issues and so forth, and they did the best they could teaching them to print, and then taught them keyboarding as early as they could and let them do most of their work on the computer. So, while I have been teaching my Aspie son to write in cursive anyway, there are definitely people out there (like the occupational therapist and all the people on the school district's autism team) that don't feel it's an essential skill, and it's fine to skip it. You would not be alone.

[ArizonaGirl]

I teach my children cursive because I believe it is an important skill.

 

That said, let me tell you a story.

 

My twelve-year-old son was at a scouting merit badge clinic. Several of the other boys leaned over his shoulder and said, incredulously, "You know how to write in cursive??!!!! I wish I knew how!" The public schools in our area don't teach it at all.

 

Now, my son hates cursive, but admits he can write faster with it and thus was using it that night. His writing is terribly illegible, but he is working on it, more so since his friends made that comment. (Yeah for positive peer pressure).

[stripe]

I plan to emphasize a legible handwriting. I don't have a huge investment in cursive. The only people I know in real life who use cursive are either old or former elementary school teachers, or both.

 

I write in a semi-connected fashion that is very legible, and my husband grew up in a country where a semi-connected style was the only one taught, from what I've observed.

 

I do NOT plan to teach typing instead of handwriting. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

[NineChoirs]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I find the idea of not teaching cursive horrifying. :eek: To me it is the same as not teaching spelling because of spell checkers, or basic arithmetic because of calculators, or even reading because of audio books. I can understand just teaching the basic cursive forms and then relying on handwriting in various subjects for practice instead of a formal program. But to not teach it at all? :confused1:

 

Sure you can get through life without knowing cursive, but you can get through life without knowing much of anything really, that doesn't make it a good idea. How is a child ever supposed to read original handwritten documents? How are they supposed to see & understand the visual artistic aspects of word crafting?

[Cindyz]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I find the idea of not teaching cursive horrifying. :eek: To me it is the same as not teaching spelling because of spell checkers, or basic arithmetic because of calculators, or even reading because of audio books. I can understand just teaching the basic cursive forms and then relying on handwriting in various subjects for practice instead of a formal program. But to not teach it at all? :confused1:

 

Sure you can get through life without knowing cursive, but you can get through life without knowing much of anything really, that doesn't make it a good idea. How is a child ever supposed to read original handwritten documents? How are they supposed to see & understand the visual artistic aspects of word crafting?

 

:iagree:

 

We began cursive and typing at 5. He picked up on both very quickly and are both second nature to him after only a few months. We we started, I let him continue to print while learning cursive but eventually I told him that all school work needed to be in cursive. After only about a week and a half, he began writing everything (even his free time writing) in cursive by choice. It's the same with typing. When he sits at the keyboard, his fingers automatically go into the correct position. He's not a speed demon with typing but that will come.

[hsbaby]

I teach cursive starting in the second grade. I have several reasons I still think it is a valuable skill. In no particular order:

 

-to be able to read it

 

-to be able to have a signature (seriously imagine signing documents in printing?!?)

 

-to write faster (yes, many people can print quite fast.....I still think that someone that can write in cursive well is able to write faster. JMO)

 

-I just think it looks nicer. My kids may grow up and never use it, but at least they have the option. Most people I know have their own "style" of writing. A sort of combination of printing and cursive.

[catz]

-I just think it looks nicer. My kids may grow up and never use it, but at least they have the option. Most people I know have their own "style" of writing. A sort of combination of printing and cursive.

 

I know my own day to day writing is a combination of print and cursive, and I think many people's evolves in that direction. I'm still doing print with my younger, cursive copy work with my older. But he can do composition on the computer.

 

I found it quite painless to teach cursive. My son went through the 3 cursive levels in HWT and now is into a copy book on his own. I really didn't "teach" it at all. It takes all of 5 minutes a day. I don't force him to write cursive outside of his work. His day to day writing is evolving to be a mix too.

[skueppers]

I always hated cursive as a child, and have never written in cursive when it was not specifically required. The public schools in my area no longer teach cursive, and cursive writing is apparently not allowed on our state NCLB tests.

 

I'm planning to teach my daughter to write in cursive toward the end of this school year, mainly because she asked. I've even been working on learning the specific style of cursive she wants to learn.

 

I really don't think cursive is a particularly useful skill in this day and age, so it's probably one of those things I would allow to fall by the wayside if the kids weren't interested. In my experience, excellent typing is a vastly more important academic and professional skill.

 

I never had any trouble taking adequate notes during my undergraduate or graduate courses using printing, nor did I have trouble with essay exams.

[nmoira]

I am thinking that kids don't need cursive anymore, since they do more typing. Is anyone NOT going to teach cursive and emphasize typing skills?

We're doing Italics rather than traditional cursive. I place great value in the ability to write legibly and at speed, and Italics is a good method to accomplish both goals. After GDI C, I start teaching the kids to read a variety of cursive styles, using old letters found on Google Images.

 

Keyboarding won't be a studied until 12 or so.

[Spy Car]

We're doing Italics rather than traditional cursive. I place great value in the ability to write legibly and at speed, and Italics is a good method to accomplish both goals. After GDI C, I start teaching the kids to read a variety of cursive styles, using old letters found on Google Images.

 

Keyboarding won't be a studied until 12 or so.

 

What style of italics are you using Moira? Nevermind, I realize now it is GDI. So why this one? When you speak, I listen. And I've been floundering when it comes to finding the right style, as I'd like something that is both efficient and has some style.

 

Bill

[nmoira]

What style of italics are you using Moira? Nevermind, I realize now it is GDI. So why this one? When you speak, I listen. And I've been floundering when it comes to finding the right style, as I'd like something that is both efficient and has some style.

 

 

• elegant yet simple

• high degree of legibility

• joined cursive uses lifts instead of joins when it makes sense wrt to time and effort

• individual letters in joined cursive are almost identical to those in manuscript, with the exception of the entry and exit serifs; this makes it easier for an individual to find a balance when writing at speed (most of us write quickly using either a mix of manuscript and cursive or just manuscript)

• joined Italics can be read even by those who cannot read traditional cursive

• it's a local product, both in design and manufacture

• Italics is an older form of writing than looped cursive, and is therefore the more traditional :tongue_smilie:

 

I'd prefer if the bolded part weren't a consideration, but it doesn't seem sensible to teach our children to write in a manner most of their peers will not be able to decipher.

Edited November 23, 2010 by nmoira
clarity

[stripe]

Honestly, I hate the capital Q in traditional cursive!

 

I also don't think being able to read cursive is the same skill as being able to write it. That being said, I think writing legibly is an important skill.

[Tracy]

I know that there are few instances where cursive is needed anymore, but the one time I was really glad that I knew cursive was when I took the bar exam. Half of the test was a six-hour, hand-written essay exam. And the reality is that cursive is faster than manuscript.

[Spy Car]

I know that there are few instances where cursive is needed anymore, but the one time I was really glad that I knew cursive was when I took the bar exam. Half of the test was a six-hour, hand-written essay exam. And the reality is that cursive is faster than manuscript.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the SAT test add an essay portion that has to be done in handwriting?

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

• elegant yet simple

• high degree of legibility

• joined cursive uses lifts instead of joins when it makes sense wrt to time and effort

• individual letters in joined cursive are almost identical to those in manuscript, with the exception of the entry and exit serifs; this makes it easier for an individual to find a balance when writing at speed (most of us write quickly using either a mix of manuscript and cursive or just manuscript)

• joined Italics can be read even by those who cannot read traditional cursive

• it's a local product, both in design and manufacture

• Italics is an older form of writing than looped cursive, and is therefore the more traditional :tongue_smilie:

 

I'd prefer if the bolded part weren't a consideration, but it doesn't seem sensible to teach our children to write in a manner most of their peers will not be able to decipher.

 

I will re-look at this option. Thank you for the explanation Moira.

 

Bill

[nmoira]

 

And the reality is that cursive is faster than manuscript.

... if you've had sufficient practice. However, most people even of my generation (probably the last to be required to use cursive through high school) use at best of mixture of cursive and manuscript when writing.

[Christie_P]

I have been looking at GDI Italics for the past 2-3 days (viewing samples, googling reviews, etc) and I was intrigued at first, but then read several reviews where

* their children were unable to read the loopy cursive everyone else uses

* one review said her neat children's handwriting WAS very neat and looked like calligraphy, but her two sloppy children's handwriting was still sloppy.

 

So though I was all gung-ho on GD Italics for a few days, now I'm not so sure.

Is it significantly faster than the loopy cursive?

How is the legibility affected when you go as fast as you possibly can?

Mostly interested in how it would look in my journal where I'm struggling to keep up with my thoughts - would it be better than my loopy Dnealian cursive?

[Sahamamama]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I find the idea of not teaching cursive horrifying. :eek: To me it is the same as not teaching spelling because of spell checkers, or basic arithmetic because of calculators, or even reading because of audio books. I can understand just teaching the basic cursive forms and then relying on handwriting in various subjects for practice instead of a formal program. But to not teach it at all? :confused1:

 

Sure you can get through life without knowing cursive, but you can get through life without knowing much of anything really, that doesn't make it a good idea. How is a child ever supposed to read original handwritten documents? How are they supposed to see & understand the visual artistic aspects of word crafting?

 

:iagree:Learning cursive in 1st grade (letters & connectors) + practicing in 2nd grade (cursive copywork) =

Time to become proficient in cursive before the writing curve goes up around 3rd/4th grade

 

HTH.

[cathmom]

My 7yo is charging full steam ahead learning cursive! I don't think I could prevent him if I tried LOL. He asked me why his sisters wrote in cursive and I told him that it's faster, and I wrote out the same sentence in print and cursive and timed myself. Writing in cursive took only half the time! He was very impressed and now is even more motivated!

[skueppers]

He asked me why his sisters wrote in cursive and I told him that it's faster, and I wrote out the same sentence in print and cursive and timed myself. Writing in cursive took only half the time! He was very impressed and now is even more motivated!

 

I think it depends a great deal on what you're used to, though. I just tried the same thing, and my print sentence took much less time than my cursive sentence. I usually print, though I have been doing extensive cursive writing recently. I practiced the cursive sentence several times to make sure I was at my own personal top speed for cursive. Here are my results:

 

"The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog."

 

Print: 18.6 seconds

Cursive: 26.1 seconds

 

The print was also more legible; if I wanted the cursive to be neat, it took 31.1 seconds.

 

It would be interesting to know how long it takes other people to write this particular sentence using their most commonly used writing style. In other words, do people who use cursive actually write faster than people who print, or is it merely that we all write faster in our most frequently-used writing style?

[RobinM]

I think some people are able to print a sentence faster than write it in cursive and it may be because print was learned first. I really think our brains get set on whatever is learned first. As an adult, print is more natural to me because it is what I was taught from the beginning. When I do write in cursive, it takes more effort if that makes sense. My cursive is more legible than my print, though, unless I actually slow down and make a point to print carefully.

 

I've always thought my grandmother's handwriting is beautiful... of course, she grew up during a time when cursive was taught from the beginning. Just yesterday I was going through some old papers and found a card she had sent. Her cursive is beautiful and legible...it's not the super old, fancy stuff that is hard to read... but just so elegant and lovely. Some might say it's not necessary b/c typing is the norm today... but one day when my grandmother is gone I'll cherish those beautifully, handwritten cards. I sure don't cherish emails or printed letters in the same way...

[IsabelC]

I love cursive and learned to do several different styles beautifully. I think it's a very useful thing to learn, and not at all obsolete. However, I have a child who absolutely detests writing. No matter how we approach it, any kind of handwriting practice makes him miserable. We have therefore decided that we're not going to enforce the learning of cursive with this child. We are requiring him to learn how to print legibly and sign his name, which everyone needs to be able to do for filling out forms. We'll encourage him to learn cursive, but give him the option to concentrate on touch-typing instead.

[helena]

[*]Italics is an older form of writing than looped cursive, and is therefore the more traditional :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I actually gasped when I read this! :tongue_smilie:

I didn't see that one coming!

 

OP, (fwiw) we love cursive here.

I'm not sure how old your kids are, but I wanted to suggest reading the Babar series if you wanted practice reading. Many Babar books are written in cursive (maybe just the older ones?). It's kind of fun to throw those in the mix.

[cathmom]

I think it depends a great deal on what you're used to, though. I just tried the same thing, and my print sentence took much less time than my cursive sentence. I usually print, though I have been doing extensive cursive writing recently. I practiced the cursive sentence several times to make sure I was at my own personal top speed for cursive. Here are my results:

 

"The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog."

 

Print: 18.6 seconds

Cursive: 26.1 seconds

 

The print was also more legible; if I wanted the cursive to be neat, it took 31.1 seconds.

 

It would be interesting to know how long it takes other people to write this particular sentence using their most commonly used writing style. In other words, do people who use cursive actually write faster than people who print, or is it merely that we all write faster in our most frequently-used writing style?

 

Interesting. I would say that I print and use cursive about equally. If I'm making a list or jotting down notes, it tends to be print. If I am actually writing out sentences, I tend to use cursive. I'll try this again using your sentence.

 

Well, for that sentence, it came out about equal, with cursive slightly faster. I wonder if it's because that specific sentence is the one that uses all the letters and not just the more common ones.

[MaMa2005]

I grade papers for DH (a HS teacher) and in a group of papers that I just graded (probably around 120 papers), only 2 were written in cursive. I was greatly surprised that only 2 used cursive. So the going trend in high school is obviously manuscript.

 

I do think it is important to be able to read cursive. DS will learn it, but it will not be a skill that I wage a battle over. I would rather him have beautiful printing than illegible cursive.

[boscopup]

I grade papers for DH (a HS teacher) and in a group of papers that I just graded (probably around 120 papers), only 2 were written in cursive. I was greatly surprised that only 2 used cursive. So the going trend in high school is obviously manuscript.

 

When I was in school, we had to use cursive up until around 7th grade. Then the teachers started saying we could do whatever we wanted. I hated cursive, so I went through a rebel phase where I wrote in all capital letters... in purple ink. :lol: Eventually, by high school, I switched to regular print, and the lowercase letters were once again part of my writing. ;)

 

Since then, the one time I had to use cursive was when I took the GRE about 8 years ago. They had a paragraph at the beginning that you had to write in cursive (they said that), basically saying you weren't going to cheat on the test, etc. I spent a couple minutes trying to remember how to write a capital 'I'. :tongue_smilie: I finished writing that paragraph just barely in time to start the test. It took me forever. So yeah, for me, since I never use cursive and I really never got good enough at it (even though I used it from 2nd-6th grade in all schoolwork), I print much faster than I write cursive.

 

I'm still teaching my child to write cursive though. He can make a choice of writing style sometime in middle school, just like I did. :)