National Opt-Out Day -- anyone participating?

[msjones]

I plan to be at the airport on Wednesday. I won't be flying. I'll be protesting the new TSA procedures.

 

Anyone else planning to protest? I'm looking for some kind of plan from the National Opt Out Day people, but don't see anything.

 

Anyone have a link to info about protests? (Or, maybe it's just not that organized and I'll just have to do my own thing...)

 

Also, if any of you are willing to share your best links for info about how the new procedures violate the 4th amendment, I'll love to see those links.

 

I'm trying to put together some info to hand out while I hold my sign.

[OrganicAnn]

I am against the new procedures, but I would not do anything that might slow down travel and just might cause people to miss Thanksgiving with family because of the protest. I under stand why they want to do it then -for the most media coverage.

[BethInNH]

I also disagree with the new procedures, but I could think of a lot of other things to protest, that would be a better use of my time. :glare:

[gardening momma]

I hadn't heard of it. Can I opt out? :D

[Old Dominion Heather]

I plan to be at the airport on Wednesday. I won't be flying. I'll be protesting the new TSA procedures.

 

Anyone else planning to protest? I'm looking for some kind of plan from the National Opt Out Day people, but don't see anything.

 

Anyone have a link to info about protests? (Or, maybe it's just not that organized and I'll just have to do my own thing...)

 

 

You might want to take a look at this plan. :D

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/blog-wear-kilt-underpants-protest-tsa-screenings/

 

ETA: I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, I just saw this article today.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Old Dominion Heather

[msjones]

Hmm...I'm not looking for another debate. I see that has been done here at TWTM already.

 

If you think my protest is silly, ill-advised, inconsiderate, etc. -- no need to reply to the thread.

 

I'm looking for information about how/when the protests may be taking place in other cities. This forum seemed like any easy place to contact fellow-protesters around the US.

 

Maybe I'll be the only homeschooling TSA protester in the USA this Wednesday, but I'll be there nonetheless. ;)

[Lakeside]

I'm looking for information about how/when the protests may be taking place in other cities. This forum seemed like any easy place to contact fellow-protesters around the US.

 

Maybe I'll be the only homeschooling TSA protester in the USA this Wednesday, but I'll be there nonetheless. ;)

 

Have you seen this website?

http://wewontfly.com/opt-out-day/ It appears as if they have some information about events taking place in different places.

[Dawn in OH]

I think people should just choose not to fly. I understand that some people have to for work purposes, but everyone else should just refuse to fly. Hit them in the pocketbook. That's the only way to make a point anymore.

[Remudamom]

I think it sounds like a lot of fun........I wish there were an airport nearer to me than two hours away.

[3littlekeets]

This is such a sticky situation....when a terrorist attack or act of violence happens, the government is accused of being too lax...now we think they have gone overboard.

 

I hate the new regulations; I do -- but I'm willing to tolerate them versus be blown up in mid-flight.

 

I'm far more frustrated by the illegal tapping and covert surveillance.

[msjones]

Have you seen this website?

http://wewontfly.com/opt-out-day/ It appears as if they have some information about events taking place in different places.

 

This is great. Thank you!

[missesd]

I think people should just choose not to fly. I understand that some people have to for work purposes, but everyone else should just refuse to fly. Hit them in the pocketbook. That's the only way to make a point anymore.

 

I agree... I think this is best. IF I was actually flying on that day I *would* Opt-Out. But just to go there I think will only cause trouble that could come back to bite everyone in the ass...

[Lakeside]

This is great. Thank you!

 

You're welcome!

[Starr]

I think it sounds like a lot of fun........I wish there were an airport nearer to me than two hours away.

 

Only 2 hours? :D I wish!

[KidsHappen]

You might want to take a look at this plan. :D

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/blog-wear-kilt-underpants-protest-tsa-screenings/

 

ETA: I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, I just saw this article today.

 

I so wish I was flying somewhere. I would definitely do something like this or perhaps the scene from Harry Met Sally. :D

[eternalknot]

I'm a flight attendant, and I'll be flying on Wednesday. I've been opting out of the scanners ever since they began testing them at select airports - with no issue, and no pat-downs.

 

I already told my supervisor that if I set off the alarm or am otherwise invited to a pat-down party, I'll be walking back through the metal detector and out to the parking lot to my car. And I mean that not just for Wednesday, but until this mess is sorted out. The TSA may attempt to detain me, but I didn't buy a ticket and this kind of search was not stipulated in my employment contract - I'd immediately request the presence of an LEO and a company representative, then request release. Fortunately I shared a womb with two lawyers, but I doubt it would get to that.

 

I've had many positive experiences with TSA agents, and I hope that continues - I feel badly that they're bearing the brunt of the frustration for decisions that are made by management. I doubt they like these changes, either.

 

I happen to agree with your protest, but even if I did not I think it's great that you're putting your money where your mouth is - and are acting on something you feel strongly about. Your kids are at an age where it's important they see you do these things. Kudos to you. And thanks, too!

[milovany]

I'm a flight attendant, and I'll be flying on Wednesday. I've been opting out of the scanners ever since they began testing them at select airports - with no issue, and no pat-downs.

 

I already told my supervisor that if I set off the alarm or am otherwise invited to a pat-down party, I'll be walking back through the metal detector and out to the parking lot to my car. And I mean that not just for Wednesday, but until this mess is sorted out. The TSA may attempt to detain me, but I didn't buy a ticket and this kind of search was not stipulated in my employment contract - I'd immediately request the presence of an LEO and a company representative, then request release. Fortunately I shared a womb with two lawyers, but I doubt it would get to that.

 

I've had many positive experiences with TSA agents, and I hope that continues - I feel badly that they're bearing the brunt of the frustration for decisions that are made by management. I doubt they like these changes, either.

 

I happen to agree with your protest, but even if I did not I think it's great that you're putting your money where your mouth is - and are acting on something you feel strongly about. Your kids are at an age where it's important they see you do these things. Kudos to you. And thanks, too!

 

Thank you for this. Wow. You know, people who know me know that I get a little politically active in some ways over different things. And this issue is one I feel I could almost get out there and protest/fight over. It's just WRONG. If I flew more than I do (I hardly ever fly at all), I probably would. We're two hours from an airport, over a snowy mountain pass, so protesting Wednesday is out. But it's not just about flying -- the new stipulations are against the constitution and are immoral. I can't stand it. I've contacted our US Representative, Senators and TSA.

 

I'm probably a little reactionary right now having watched Iron Jawed Angels in class this week (the HBO story of women who fought -- many risking their lives -- for the right of women to vote in our country; I had no idea until now what they went through).

[Liz CA]

I am still unclear about this. I am not going anywhere but if I wanted to fly, can I decline the scanner AND the pat down and still get on the plane?

Or can you only do this because you are an employee?

[missesd]

I am still unclear about this. I am not going anywhere but if I wanted to fly, can I decline the scanner AND the pat down and still get on the plane?

Or can you only do this because you are an employee?

 

I am guessing it's cause she is an employee. But no you can't refuse both. If you get chosen for a virtual strip search, and refuse, then it is Mr. Gropey & Feely for you.

 

While I admired EternalKnots post, I am rather irked that employees can bypass, seeing as members who took over the 911 planes were trained pilots in our training facilities. It wouldn't be that far of a stretch to be an employee....

[milovany]

If you get chosen for a virtual strip search, and refuse, then it is Mr. Gropey & Feely for you.

 

I don't think there's any more "if you get chosen" -- I think all will be either photographed naked or sexually assaulted by the government (sorry, that's how I see it). Either/or -- not if. Am I mistaken? (Either way, it's still wrong.)

 

I wish

was younger so he could try for the presidency again. I'd vote for him (again). Edited November 20, 2010 by milovaný

[Liz CA]

I am guessing it's cause she is an employee. But no you can't refuse both. If you get chosen for a virtual strip search, and refuse, then it is Mr. Gropey & Feely for you.

 

 

Aren't women being patted down by women??? And men by men...?

[milovany]

Aren't women being patted down by women??? And men by men...?

 

Yes. But Mr. "Don't Touch My Junk" addressed this well -- saying he only lets his wife and maybe his doctor touch him in those places. Why should the government have a legal right to touch us there?

 

Fourth Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

But it's not just about flying -- the new stipulations are against the constitution and are immoral. I can't stand it. I've contacted our US Representative, Senators and TSA.

 

 

I think flooding Congress about this is important. I've read too many articles where the response is that they're pretty sure that the public is ok with this.

 

I am not ok with the idea of being handled by a stranger simply because I want to fly somewhere. Not with the level of intrusiveness that a police officer is forbidden without probably cause. Attempting to travel via airplane is not probably cause.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I am guessing it's cause she is an employee. But no you can't refuse both. If you get chosen for a virtual strip search, and refuse, then it is Mr. Gropey & Feely for you.

 

While I admired EternalKnots post, I am rather irked that employees can bypass, seeing as members who took over the 911 planes were trained pilots in our training facilities. It wouldn't be that far of a stretch to be an employee....

 

But if you're an employee with access to the cockpit, then you don't really need to bring a weapon through at all.

[DarcyB]

Aren't women being patted down by women??? And men by men...?

 

How is it less of a sexual assault if it's done by someone of the same gender?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I am against the new procedures, but I would not do anything that might slow down travel and just might cause people to miss Thanksgiving with family because of the protest. I under stand why they want to do it then -for the most media coverage.

 

yeah ~ i wouldn't want to be part of that...the only people who will actually be hurt by this are innocent people trying to get where they're going.

[Gwenhwyfar]

 

I'm trying to put together some info to hand out while I hold my sign.

 

i'd check into the legality of that first ~ you could find yourself in trouble for "causing a disturbance" or something... you may not be allowed to carry signs and/or hand out leaflets in an airport.

[FO4UR]

You might want to take a look at this plan. :D

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/blog-wear-kilt-underpants-protest-tsa-screenings/

 

ETA: I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, I just saw this article today.

 

For once in my life, I wish I were a man so I could display my True Scottish heritage.:lol: If I were a man, I might fly somewhere only for that purpose.

[....]

The kilt protest is awesome.

 

I also refuse to fly. I'm not going to pay money for my daughters to be assaulted. I'm supposed to protect them, not drag them through that. If we go somewhere, we'll just drive.

 

I hope they all go bankrupt. Our generation is shouldering a gigantic burden of tax and debt. We shouldn't be treated like criminals. We're just trying to pay our bills and raise our kids.

 

Good for you, OP!!

[Kalypso]

I don't think there's any more "if you get chosen" -- I think all will be either photographed naked or sexually assaulted by the government (sorry, that's how I see it). Either/or -- not if. Am I mistaken? (Either way, it's still wrong.)

 

I wish

was younger so he could try for the presidency again. I'd vote for him (again).

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[flyingiguana]

 

I've had many positive experiences with TSA agents, and I hope that continues - I feel badly that they're bearing the brunt of the frustration for decisions that are made by management. I doubt they like these changes, either.

 

 

 

I have to agree -- I'm sure the TSA employees are not so happy about this either. It's the bigwigs on top we should all be angry with.

 

I'm opting out by not flying. I wish all the opt-outers going through the airports would have the same thought. It will be the only thing that works.

 

My daughters have already informed me they are not interested in being irradiated with unknown consequences, nor being handled by someone, so I can hardly force them on a plane to go visit relatives. It's too far to drive, so I guess we're just staying home.

[LizzyBee]

....

I hope they all go bankrupt. Our generation is shouldering a gigantic burden of tax and debt. We shouldn't be treated like criminals. We're just trying to pay our bills and raise our kids.

 

Good for you, OP!!

 

I think people should just choose not to fly. I understand that some people have to for work purposes, but everyone else should just refuse to fly. Hit them in the pocketbook. That's the only way to make a point anymore.

 

Unfortunately, it's the airlines who will be hurt financially, but this is not airline policy. It's government policy, and the government will not be financially harmed when people stop flying. The airlines will slide toward bankruptcy, and the government will bail them out.

 

Emailing my Congressmen and women and the TSA has been on my mental to-do list. I think I'll do that today. I've also posted on facebook, but my general impression from talking to people is that they've accepted that this is the way it is now and they're not even upset about it.

 

I'm surprised there haven't been any lawsuits filed by the pilot and flight attendants' unions. I haven't heard a peep from them on this issue. I did read that the ACLU is contemplating a lawsuit.

[Elaine]

I plan to be at the airport on Wednesday. I won't be flying. I'll be protesting the new TSA procedures.

 

Anyone else planning to protest? I'm looking for some kind of plan from the National Opt Out Day people, but don't see anything.

 

Anyone have a link to info about protests? (Or, maybe it's just not that organized and I'll just have to do my own thing...)

 

Also, if any of you are willing to share your best links for info about how the new procedures violate the 4th amendment, I'll love to see those links.

 

I'm trying to put together some info to hand out while I hold my sign.

 

As someone who has organized and participated in a lot of protests over the past two years ;) I can tell you this- you should look up the laws. You can't protest on the property itself, so check and see what belongs to the airport.

 

I'm with you. I would protest if I were flying that day, definitely. Best of luck, my friend!:001_smile:

[MBM]

I am still unclear about this. I am not going anywhere but if I wanted to fly, can I decline the scanner AND the pat down and still get on the plane?

Or can you only do this because you are an employee?

 

 

No, you cannot deny either from TSA's standpoint. Here is my understanding of what could play out. Anyone feel free to correct this if I'm wrong.

 

The airport will have a metal detector machine. You might go through just that. However, if the airport has a scanner, which can *see* under the layers of your clothing, you could be asked to go through that instead or additionally. (The scanners can detect plastic explosives which the metal detector cannot. Take everything out of your pockets and remove jewelry.) You'll be asked to stand between two wall-like structures and raise your hands above your head for about 7 seconds. If they spot something suspicious, they'll give you a pat-down as well. You might also receive the pat-down if you opt-out or have a prosthetic or other artificial body part. Some claim a few TSA agents have been randomly patting down as well.

 

Anyway, what a mess!

[MBM]

Aren't women being patted down by women??? And men by men...?

 

 

I belong to a travel board, and a few long-time posters I know claim to have been patted down by members of the opposite sex. When they requested a member of the same sex, they were told one was not available and they would just have to put up with it.

[flyingiguana]

Unfortunately, it's the airlines who will be hurt financially, but this is not airline policy. It's government policy, and the government will not be financially harmed when people stop flying. The airlines will slide toward bankruptcy, and the government will bail them out.

.

 

If the airlines start hurting financially because people are not flying THEY will put pressure on the govt -- and they have a lot more clout than the rest of us.

[Murmer]

Already canceled our holiday plane tickets...I can't find anything about transversing security with a babe in arms and the airport we were flying out of is currently using the naked body scanners and seem to also have some of the most issues with complaints. So we are driving cross country for christmas.

[Skadi]

If the airlines start hurting financially because people are not flying THEY will put pressure on the govt -- and they have a lot more clout than the rest of us.

 

Exactly. Much of the airline business is pretty much subsidized by the government to begin with.

[Heather in AL]

No, you cannot deny either from TSA's standpoint. Here is my understanding of what could play out. Anyone feel free to correct this if I'm wrong.

 

The airport will have a metal detector machine. You might go through just that. However, if the airport has a scanner, which can *see* under the layers of your clothing, you could be asked to go through that instead or additionally. (The scanners can detect plastic explosives which the metal detector cannot. Take everything out of your pockets and remove jewelry.) You'll be asked to stand between two wall-like structures and raise your hands above your head for about 7 seconds. If they spot something suspicious, they'll give you a pat-down as well. You might also receive the pat-down if you opt-out or have a prosthetic or other artificial body part. Some claim a few TSA agents have been randomly patting down as well.

 

Anyway, what a mess!

 

MBM, thanks for posting this. I hadn't realized the jewelry part. If I chose to go through the nudie-scanner I would have to remove all of my jewelry? My three pairs of earrings? My wedding rings? My grandmother's diamond? My heirloom ring? And put them, I'm sure, in a bucket shared by zillions of people (germs!! and then the earrings get stuck back through my ears), and hope that I get them back when everything is done? (I'm sure that sort of stuff goes missing the same way laptops do when people don't get through X-ray fast enough).

 

The part about the prosthetics is awful, too. I just read ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331346/Cancer-survivor-forced-prosthetic-breast-TSA-agents-airport-pat-down.html ) where a flight attendant was forced to show TSA agents her prosthetic breast. Poor lady.

 

These new rules (and many others) are useless unless **everyone** goes through the same procedures, regardless of age, color, or whether one is part of the crew. Everyone. A much simpler, and I bet more effective, method is profiling. I know it's a word that gets people riled up, but if there was someone in town robbing banks, and the BOLO was for a "40something woman driving a mini van", I would expect to be stopped. I wouldn't be thrilled, but I would expect it as that's what it takes to find the culprit.

 

And, like a previous poster, if I was a man, I would wear my kilt! :D

 

Oh by the way, my dental hygienist told me yesterday that on the way back from Hawaii, she went through the nudie-scanner AND was pulled aside for the 'gyn' exam. She said it was horrible!! She was felt up, the lady's hand went in her underwear, up her 'crack' (her words). She felt very violated.

 

It really grinds my gears that TSA is allowed conduct on every citizen that police aren't, and that **we aren't allowed to do to prisoners in Guantanamo**!!! (haven't checked on that, but heard it on a number one or two nation-wide talk show from the host himself)

[SailorMom]

We fly out of here tomorrow - I would love to have the ability to opt out - but we are going to my sister-in-law's wedding (we live in FL, they live in CA - no way can we drive).

I don't mind as much for me - I'll punch the guy/gal if they get too frisky and risk it. I mid for my kids. If they pull them out of line I'll be pissed.

[Heather in AL]

I belong to a travel board, and a few long-time posters I know claim to have been patted down by members of the opposite sex. When they requested a member of the same sex, they were told one was not available and they would just have to put up with it.

 

Yep... not all airports *have* female agents. Ours does, but my dental hygienist told me that the lady in her chair before me was sore "there" after her vigorous 'pat down' by a female agent (which included 'squeezing') and is dreading her flight this weekend (relief worker in Haiti). Apparently, they go up 'hard and fast' to tell what sort of 'resistance' they meet. :confused: I'm wondering if doubling up on menstrual pads will alleviate the pain associated with these 'pat downs'. :glare: But then, they'll strip search to see what's there. Geez.

 

Oh, and I read a rumor that in some places that they are making people wait an unusually long time if they request a female agent.... you know, throwing their weight around, and hoping more people will opt for the nudie-scan for fear of being late for their flight.

[MBM]

I feel so sorry for the women wearing prosthetic breasts. Ugh.

I suppose you could place all your jewelry in a plastic zip-lock to keep it together. Then, I'd mention to the TSA agent that you would prefer to send that through after your scan to minimize the chance of theft. I've heard everything -- even Kleenex -- has to be removed from your pockets. I know I don't want to take chances! I'm not even going to wear an underwire bra or jeans with a metal zipper when I go through. Maybe I should wear a large potato sack and nothing else!

Oh, no! I'm flying to Honolulu in December. Did they spot something suspicious on your friend, or was this random? IMO, the random searches after the scans, if nothing suspicious is found, are abuse of power and a means to intimidate. Argh. I think we won't arrive at the airport too soon in case someone is having a bad day and wants to let passengers know how they really feel.

We're going to London in March, and I've heard similar stories about Heathrow, too. Great. Les Mis and Phantom of the Opera better be worth it! LOL.

After that we will be driving to our vacation destinations.

[Skadi]

I don't mind as much for me - I'll punch the guy/gal if they get too frisky and risk it.

 

Was that supposed to be a joke? There's an $11,000 fine for not cooperating with the frisk (a guy was recently fined $10k just for telling them not to "touch his junk"). If you punch them, you'll be arrested and jailed for assault, plus probably face a civil suit.

 

This attitude of "Not me! I'd punch 'em!" just bothers me because it sort of veils the real issue here. The government has made you powerless. There is virtually nothing you could do to resist that would not result in grossly large fines and possible jail time. They have the ability to take away your rights and invade your privacy on a whim, and there is nothing you can do about it if you do not boycott the airlines entirely.

 

I'm also curious about your definition of "too frisky." Do I need to go into the sordid details of what a cavity search entails?

Edited November 20, 2010 by Skadi

[ma23peas]

I'm a reasonable person, I've flown to England the week after Lockerbie, flew to Orlando 8 days after 9/11 (on first flights that reopened..we were scheduled to fly out on 9/12)...I'm not a fearful flyer,

 

But!! When flying through Amsterdam this past May, I had 'THE PATDOWN'...it is WRONG!! You know when all those red flags hit you like a brick when you see a suspicious character lurking in a park or fair? I felt as though I was trapped and literally was being molested..I had to pretened to laugh it off so my kids would not see my fear, but if they tried for one second to pull that on my daughters or even my son, I would have vehemently REFUSED!

Their hands pushed into my private parts, they put their hands all over my breasts, under on top on side, several times!!!

Mine was a lady, but the expression on her face and her demeanor gave me NO comfort..I think she actually liked making others feel uncomfortable..that was a hard realization...it added to the whole molestation feel....we fly in March to LA and if they pull that, I will refuse.

 

Tara

[Skadi]

I'd also like to point out that the police cannot perform cavity searches without first obtaining a warrant from a judge. Just a little perspective on just how much of an infringement this really is.

[creekland]

I am against the new procedures, but I would not do anything that might slow down travel and just might cause people to miss Thanksgiving with family because of the protest

 

 

:iagree: I've never been fond of protesters for pretty much any cause, but this one would REALLY annoy me if I had anyone flying that day. Fortunately, we don't.

[msjones]

yeah ~ i wouldn't want to be part of that...the only people who will actually be hurt by this are innocent people trying to get where they're going.

 

No, they won't be delayed. They can just submit to the digital strip search. Presumably, the line for that will not be slowed down by people opting out. Make sense?

[Dawn in OH]

Unfortunately, it's the airlines who will be hurt financially, but this is not airline policy. It's government policy, and the government will not be financially harmed when people stop flying. The airlines will slide toward bankruptcy, and the government will bail them out.

 

 

 

I realize it's the airline that will be impacted by a mass refusal to fly. However, after the airlines begin to see/feel the financial loss they can lobby Congress to reduce the security measures.

[msjones]

i'd check into the legality of that first ~ you could find yourself in trouble for "causing a disturbance" or something... you may not be allowed to carry signs and/or hand out leaflets in an airport.

 

I've checked into that already. There is an area at the airport where this is allowed.

 

This is America, and we're still allowed to protest peacefully. (As long as we're not boarding a plane -- then we're detained and fined for our peaceful protests.)

[Harriet Vane]

. . . All will be either photographed naked or sexually assaulted by the government (sorry, that's how I see it). Either/or -- not if. Am I mistaken? (Either way, it's still wrong.)

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I cannot believe these are our only choices and am HORRIFIED that this illegal, unconstitutional search procedure is actually in practice. It IS just as you say--you can choose to photographed naked and exposed to radiation OR sexually assaulted even though you have committed NO crimes.

 

I plan to not fly unless an emergency or major extenuating circumstances dictates the need to do so.