AP Classes? How many are you planning? Planned?

[LNC]

My thread about our science sequence has me pondering AP classes. I was planning for my children to take several Ap for their humanities courses, but several posters recommended AP sciences as well for science/pre-med majors.

I'm wondering how you spread these out. My twin sister and I took every AP class our high school offered in 10th and 11th grades. 3-4 per year. We dual enrolled with Emory University for our senior year. I'm thinking my children could handle some in 9th right?

 

Something like this through Penn Homeschoolers:

 

9th- AP US Govt

 

10th- AP Econ

AP English Lang (to get feedback before writing PSAT portion in 11th)

 

11th- AP European History

AP Chem

AP English Lit

 

12th- AP Latin

AP US History

AP Physics - possibly self study with Dive/Saxon Physics

AP Calculus BC

 

My original intention was to have them CLEP or Sat-2 the science courses to save money. We wouldn't accept the AP credit for their science intro courses anyway, bc it might mess with their college gpa. Several posters recommended AP science as well anyway.

 

This is combined with our future plans to study Logic, Rhetoric, Latin, Spanish, and Great Books per WTM. Of course, our normal math and science studies will be included also.

 

I was previously counting on several SAT-2 or CLEP (just for verification of mommy grades), 2-4 AP (for credit), stellar activities, personal interest, essays, and great SAT scores to get them admitted. My thread below startled me. Is this number of AP courses what it takes to get into a top in-state university as a homeschooler??

Edited November 19, 2010 by LNC

[Gwen in VA]

Is this number of AP courses what it takes to get into a top in-state university as a homeschooler??

 

No, students do NOT need to take ten AP classes to get accepted to a top in-state university. (Voice of experience here).

 

Choose your students' high school classes to reflect their interests and goals. Some students do take loads of AP classes -- I talked with a girl last week who took 14 AP's while in high school -- but all those AP classes are not "necessary" to get in to a top school.

 

AP classes take lots of time. Your kids may be brilliant and handle the heavy workload just fine; certainly some AP's (like human geography and US Gov't) take a lot less time than others. However, I am a bit concerned that between great books and rhetoric (which would be somewhat redundant with the AP English classes) and logic, you are setting your kids with with a VERY heavy workload.

 

Extracurriculars are a huge part of college admissions. What skills and talents will your student bring to the college? If you want your kids to get into a top-notch school, let them have enough time to pursue outside interests like drama or math contests or music or sports or reenacting or debate or whatever.

 

One other note -- the SAT writing section does require actually writing an essay, but the PSAT writing section does not.

[creekland]

I agree with Gwen that it does not take oodles of AP to get into a top in-state U. My oldest had none and would have easily gotten into our top state U (though he went private). What it takes to get in [in general] to colleges [from homeschooling] are good SAT/ACT scores, nice ec's and nice Letters of Recommendation (LOR's).

 

That said, you'd talked below about your student wanting to be Pre-med. From what I've gleaned from doctors I've talked with and college confidential's Pre-med site is that ideally you want AP's for science/math (that you won't count for college credit) in order to make freshman courses easier as the student makes the transition to college. AP science is [in general] NOT considered up to par with a top notch college's class offering, so 'tis best not to count it and take a chance on being behind the rest of the class for more advanced classes as well. Ditto that with community college classes.

 

AP in other courses appear to be just fine if a college accepts AP credits and frees the Pre-med student up for taking other classes they like or getting a double major.

 

Pretty much everyone has stated that to get into med school one needs a top notch GPA (as close to a 4.0 as possible), a top MCAT score, and other ec's. An application to med school without any one of those is not likely to get accepted. AP's and challenging high school courses make the top GPA more likely as the student has learned to study and learn.

 

Then too, AP's and challenging high school courses (done successfully) can also lead to acceptances to other top notch schools (not state) and potentially merit aid too. At Pitt (our top Pre-med state school) not only will a top ACT score and GPA get free tuition, it also puts my son in competition with others for a total free ride AND a few coveted slots for guaranteed admission into their Top 10 Med school. He'll be in competition with other top notch students, so we'll see what happens. Due to our location (local high schools don't offer AP tests!), I'll have to see if I can get ours to order them just for my guy. If not, he won't have any, but he does have the top grade in microbio at our local CC (and will get a great letter of recommendation from his professor) and we'll look at doing more classes there if we need to (and SAT II's).

 

For Pre-Meds... shadowing a doctor or other sorts of things in a local hospital is also a big plus. ;) My guy had signed up for EMT Basic training (a very intensive course) but it got canceled due to low enrollment.:thumbdown: We were all very disappointed as that would have helped considerably, plus, he just plain wanted the training.

 

There's a difference between simply getting "accepted" to a college and getting a leg up on top majors which have even higher goals (as I've been finding out). There are students on college confidential that blew their freshman year and are out of luck with regards to med school because their GPA is now too low even though they picked things up afterward. Some of their stories are on there buried in some of the longer threads. I fully believe in my quote in my sig... so my guy and I have talked about what he'll need to be doing in college (and before) in order to reach his goal. He also knows he CAN pick something else should he so desire. Right now he's dead set on joining the competition. He has the free tuition at Pitt already - or will have next year when he applies IF they don't change their minimum ACT of 32. His is a little higher, so he has a little leeway. He could also retake it if need be. We'll see.

[Luckymama]

Hey creekland, is that free tuition with a 32 an in-state deal?

[Gwen in VA]

Pitt is pretty generous with full-tuition and even full-ride scholarships to out-of-state students. :)

[creekland]

Hey creekland, is that free tuition with a 32 an in-state deal?

 

No, it isn't just for in-state students. However, it must be accompanied by a high GPA and desirable ec's. In other words, it has to be a student they want in the big picture - not just high test scores. They grant it on a case by case basis, but everyone with all the above seems to get it.

 

Alabama gives free tuition for out of state based on test scores alone according to their web site and many have gotten 100% free rides and a stipend and a computer with high scores (in state and out of state). They are actively looking to increase their rankings and are doing it by giving a great deal to top students who take them up on it.

 

Pitt I learned about from those that have been there/done that (or doing it). Pitt is closer to us and much higher in the [pre-med/med] rankings, so it's a higher choice for us (ESP if he were to get the auto med school deal), but we're not discounting Alabama and will likely send an app in there too. In either school one would also be in their Honors College (a big plus so I've been told).

 

Baylor is another that is well known for great merit aid for top notch students and a good reputation for pre-med.

 

With all three of these their overall [ACT/SAT] scores as per college board aren't up to snuff with other "top" schools like Ivies and similar, but one needs to look within a desired major, not just at the total population of big schools. Every single doctor has told me the best advice they can give is to get undergrad as inexpensively as possible, but at as good of a school as possible (for pre-med) in order to both get in and pay for med school. They've also given me ideas on where to look. I don't mind sharing the info... ;)

 

The University of Rochester, Case Western, and Franklin and Marshall are also schools we're seriously looking at and will likely apply to, but the bottom line is likely to come from financial packages in our situation. If he gets free tuition or free rides at more than one, we'll look at fit and prestige (based on where students made it into med school) as well as who's researching what (based on my son's interests). Pitt is #5 in NIH research grant money. They do a ton of research there, so it might still come out on top.

 

Meanwhile, I'm seriously glad this son's hobby is studying (by his nature). My other two are academically talented, but nowhere near in the same way. This guy truly was designed to be heading toward his future career (which he's told us since 3rd grade that he wanted).

 

I have far more respect now for anyone with the MD after their name!

[Luckymama]

Thanks for the Pitt info. It will go on the list for dd15 since she is pre-med, actually looking at surgery (!) Ds17 decided last summer not to apply to Pitt so I haven't dug around on the website in a long while.

[creekland]

Thanks for the Pitt info. It will go on the list for dd15 since she is pre-med, actually looking at surgery (!) Ds17 decided last summer not to apply to Pitt so I haven't dug around on the website in a long while.

 

 

Just wanted to add that the minimum for competition to the direct med school entry at Pitt is a 33 on the ACT (or 1450 m/cr on the SAT). Here's a link:

 

http://www.oafa.pitt.edu/guarantee.aspx#med

 

It's very competitive, but worth a shot if a student has the stats. My guy has a 33, but we're still debating having him retake it due to his desired goal. He has room to move up. For most of the students out there a 33 would be absolutely superb with no need to retake. It's in the top 1% after all. For him, it's borderline. This is why on the "test score" threads it's difficult to put labels on scores as it all depends on a student's goal and their ability. For various goals and certain majors or colleges what's "good enough" differs considerably.

 

Those stats are different than top merit aid or the Honors College (ACT 32, SAT 1400 if I'm remembering correctly).

[AngieW in Texas]

I'm teaching an AP level physics B class this year for my 10th grade dd and one other student, but I didn't submit a syllabus to the college board to get it officially labeled AP. I plan to have us through the text by early April so we will have at least 3 weeks to work specifically on the AP test. Unfortunately, I've had to move pretty much all the labwork to May so we'll be able to get through the text and have study time before the AP test in May. The next time I teach this class, I will start it at the beginning of August so I can do labs all through the course instead of shoving them to the end.

 

I may have my dd do the AP Human Geography test next year. I'm not sure. She'll be taking cc classes next and I'm not sure she'll have the time she needs to devote to studying for it.

 

My oldest has no APs at all. She will have 50 college credits from dual credit courses by the time she graduates though.

Edited November 19, 2010 by AngieW in Texas

[Nissi]

Dc. are interested in Medicine. Oldest has successfully taken Human Geo, US Govt. & Politics, and English Language and Comp. in Grade 9. In 10th he is doing European History and Chemistry. He has loved every single course he has taken so far. So, this child is all for APs. He wishes he had more time to watch movies, documentaries, and novels relevant to his European History course than he has now. We plan on doing some of these during Thanksgiving and Christmas. We are also planning to include some college courses for jr. and sr. years but will continue with APs too. I don't know how things will work out for my younger one. Each child is so different.

[creekland]

Updated to add my middle son may very well have none. Our school will not order them for him since they don't give them to their own students (sigh). I was hoping since I worked there and knew the guidance office reasonably well that they might help, but no.

 

Their suggestion was to check with schools about an hour away. I looked on collegeboard and will likely call them in Jan to see if any schools within a reasonable driving distance (an hour is reasonable) offer them, but if not, then we'll have to go with SAT IIs and see if we can swing more money for $600 - $800 cc classes - which right now, looks very doubtful.

 

I'm bummed. I think we're going to have to settle for (and be very happy for) free tuition (possibly more) and just realize we don't live in an area where he can be competitive for those few "guaranteed med school" slots.

 

Fortunately, one doesn't NEED APs to get in with merit aid if one has high enough test scores.

[Brenda in MA]

I'm bummed. I think we're going to have to settle for (and be very happy for) free tuition (possibly more) and just realize we don't live in an area where he can be competitive for those few "guaranteed med school" slots.

 

Creekland,

 

I wouldn't write off his chances at the higher scholarships just because he can't take AP tests. When you do the counselor letter for his application, explain that he was using materials suitable for AP prep and that you intended for him to take the tests. You contacted local school(s) and they wouldn't order the test for him. Then go on to say how he did what he could do, which was CC courses, and did well there. I don't think they'd hold it against a kid just because he had no way to take AP exams.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[creekland]

Creekland,

 

I wouldn't write off his chances at the higher scholarships just because he can't take AP tests. When you do the counselor letter for his application, explain that he was using materials suitable for AP prep and that you intended for him to take the tests. You contacted local school(s) and they wouldn't order the test for him. Then go on to say how he did what he could do, which was CC courses, and did well there. I don't think they'd hold it against a kid just because he had no way to take AP exams.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

 

I'll do that. Thanks for the idea. I'm not certain how much hope there will be considering he'll likely be competing against kids that have a wazoo of test scores, but it's worth a try. He should get an interview as he makes the minimum cut off for that part, but people I've talked with said they don't believe making the cut off puts everyone on the "same level" as some places do. They think they look at the whole package (test scores, extra curriculars, and interviews). It's frustrating because if we had more $$ he could easily do more cc or something (and wants to, but it's $600 minimum per course - $900 for science courses with labs), but that coupled with our local schools not offering AP isn't helping.

 

At least he qualifies for free tuition and might get decent offers elsewhere too.