(LS) Okay, but how are all you WTM'ers teaching your dc HOW to write?

[HappyGrace]

I am so frustrated with writing for 5th grade dd, and WTM is not helping me. I started this thread awhile back about what people are doing with their 5th graders for writing:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216566&highlight=5th+grade+writing

 

It was a great thread, BUT it takes me back to my problem with WTM-they are supposed to write about what they are reading, but where is the instruction on how to do so? I guess she means them to get it from R+S or IEW. Okay, I get that. But it must be just me-I need something more handholding than they should learn it from there and apply it to their writing. I need more of a scheduled out writing PROGRAM, I think.

 

If I set dd10 out to write a paragraph or whatever about what she read, it rambles on, is wordy, with awkward sentences, etc-typical of a 5th grader. I need to learn HOW to TEACH her how to fix these (common) problems. I HAVE the SWB writing mp3s, but I don't feel it does dd any good to just keep writing badly without correction, over and over.

 

I got myself some resources to read and try to figure out how to teach writing, but I just don't have the time for that, with teaching another child, teaching co-op, in charge of church library, and on and on-just life. I REALLY really need a well laid out curriculum to teach writing! My latest expensive outlay was WriteShop-very good, but she has done most of this in IEW.

 

I guess I mainly need help with teaching her to write reports, etc. I need more help as a writing teacher! :willy_nilly: Improving her writing is my number one goal this year, and I have no idea how to do this.

 

Anyone else having these problems?

[Sara in WA]

I have found great writing instruction in the Writing With Ease books - the text and the workbooks. Perhaps you know, it uses copy work, narration and dictation to teach writing. I know this is not the end all in writing instruction; however, it really does give a solid foundation. Learning these tools will help your child to write about his/her reading in a solid fashion.

 

It does sound like you have a lot on your plate. Yet, IMHO it would prove priceless for you to educate yourself on how to teach writing versus finding a curriculum. I see teaching writing as different than teaching math or grammar, in that the teacher has to roll up her sleeves and get involved. Maybe spending a month or two educating yourself and then diving in to teaching your dd? I'm just throwing out ideas here...

[lionfamily1999]

Have you tried Writing Strands? She's about Level 3 I'd guess. It starts off very simply. Write a two word sentence. Then it shows how to build up that sentence. Then it works on writing paragraphs. Dd is loving WS and it's what I'm planning for writing in the Logic stage with both boys.

[Luckymama]

Nothing to add but I'll bump this logic stage question back to page one :D

[Mallory]

All you can do is pick one thing and work on that.

 

Point out good examples when you are reading, talk about it before she starts writing, and edit for that one thing (well and basic sentance/grammar/punctuation too).

 

When she is doing better at that, start on the next thing.

 

Say wordiness is what you've decided.

-When you are reading together the next week or two find some good sentances that use a few words well, and point them out.

-Then start applying it too her writing. Before she starts her summary talk about not using lots of words when one or two will do. Play around with a couple sentances from her writing from last week and talk about shorter ways she could say the samething.

-Remind her to use words wisely (for my boys some kind of monetary comparison would probably work- well if they had this problem, they usually tend to not wordy enough ;)).

-When it is time to edit, pick out a couple of the wordiest sentances and ask her to give you 2 or 3 other shorter ways to say the same thing. Pick the one she likes best and replace that sentance.

-Keep working on wordiness until it is better, probably several weeks.

-Then pick the next issue to work on.

 

Just like you edit now for capitalization, complete sentances, basic grammar, etc after you work on it wordiness will be one of the things that is on her editing list. If you don't have some kind of basic checklist for editing then make one up. So next month when you are working on akward sentances she'll still be checking for wordiness. You also don't have to completely fix the problem now. When she has made some improvement, move on to a different topic. You can hit wordiness again next year (and the year after and the year after).

[atozmom]

I was looking for something like this as well. I don't quite need it yet for my ds, but it would have been nice to have for my dd. Here are a few that I will be looking into more when the time comes.

 

Meaningful Composition

The Paragraph Book by EPS

Simply...Writing the Five Paragraph Essay

The Five Finger Pargraph

 

I think there may have been a couple more, but they aren't coming to mind right now. I will add them IF I remember. :lol:

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

If your looking info on how to write a narration paragraph, I suggest the Writing With Ease book. It holds their hand as they learn how to narrate. We are using book 4 and at first my son had no idea how to get 3-4 sentences about what he just read. The first few weeks of lessons walked him through the thinking process with a series of 3-4 questions creating a 3-4 sentence paragraph he was to write on his paper. We are now at the point in WWE4 that the questions have disappeared but it will prompt him on what to focus on....Give 3-4 sentences telling what he looked like, what he did, and where he went (this sort of thing). It is helping his brain process exactly what he needs to focus on to get a good narration.

 

If your looking on just a general how to write program, then I would agree with a previous poster and suggest Writing Strands 3. As she said, it starts then out with 2 words, but over the week they are building it up to a detailed sentence. The next lessons start them out very small but build to paragraphs, then different type of paragraphs and so on. Very step by step...but little steps so as not to overwhelm.

[papillon]

Ooo, Both Meaningful Composition and The Paragraph Book look great ~ thanks for the links!

Edited November 17, 2010 by papillon

[creekmom]

Start with the basics. Make sure she can write a good, solid sentence. Practice sentence writing for a few weeks (try Killgallons' composing sentences book http://www.amazon.com/Sentence-Composing-Elementary-School-Sentences/dp/0325002231/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1290002352&sr=8-3).

 

Next, work on paragraphs. Give her a topic sentence and have her write supporting sentences. Give her supporting sentences and have her write the topic sentence. Try Paragraph Writing Made Easy (http://www.amazon.com/Paragraph-Writing-Made-Susan-Smith/dp/0439207649/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290002471&sr=1-1)

 

Once she understands how a paragraph is constructed, have her write one well-constructed paragraph a day. I use interesting articles from Time for Kids to have her read and summarize with one paragraph (I got a box of articles from a local teacher store). Then, for the topic sentence, ask, "Who/what was this article about and why was/is it important/news worthy?". Then, help her pick 3-4 important details from the article to include in her supporting sentences.

 

Once you have sentences/paragraphs down, then move on to essays. I like Write Source for teaching essays. I'm using the 6th grade book this year, and it has great examples and instruction for all types of essay writing. http://www.amazon.com/Great-Source-Write-Student-Generation/dp/0669507016/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1290003009&sr=1-1

 

HTH!

[Testimony]

I am so frustrated with writing for 5th grade dd, and WTM is not helping me. I started this thread awhile back about what people are doing with their 5th graders for writing:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216566&highlight=5th+grade+writing

 

It was a great thread, BUT it takes me back to my problem with WTM-they are supposed to write about what they are reading, but where is the instruction on how to do so? I guess she means them to get it from R+S or IEW. Okay, I get that. But it must be just me-I need something more handholding than they should learn it from there and apply it to their writing. I need more of a scheduled out writing PROGRAM, I think.

 

If I set dd10 out to write a paragraph or whatever about what she read, it rambles on, is wordy, with awkward sentences, etc-typical of a 5th grader. I need to learn HOW to TEACH her how to fix these (common) problems. I HAVE the SWB writing mp3s, but I don't feel it does dd any good to just keep writing badly without correction, over and over.I got myself some resources to read and try to figure out how to teach writing, but I just don't have the time for that, with teaching another child, teaching co-op, in charge of church library, and on and on-just life. I REALLY really need a well laid out curriculum to teach writing! My latest expensive outlay was WriteShop-very good, but she has done most of this in IEW.

 

I guess I mainly need help with teaching her to write reports, etc. I need more help as a writing teacher! :willy_nilly: Improving her writing is my number one goal this year, and I have no idea how to do this.

 

Anyone else having these problems?

 

I just wanted to comment on the area that I highlighted. What you said is exactly what a 5th grader does. You are right a child should not continue to write badly without correction, but it needs to be the child's correction. I have to work with my sons to have them read and reread what they have written. I tell them to read it to me out loud. They usually understand their mistakes better when they hear the sentence does not make sense. It has been a slow process for me. I am applying what my older son has learned in Rod and Staff for writing this year.

 

Just a thought, I have heard it said that the more you write the more it improves. I have to admit that idea has worked for me. So, I really think that writing is a matter of continuous working on it, it gets better.

 

One more thought, I am in an amateur writers' group. I was listening to a professional writer speak in one of the classes. She said that in an 8 hour day, she rewrites 250 times one chapter. So, even a professional writer does not get it right on the first shot. Writing is a process!

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Joyofsixreboot]

Ok, I have the most reluctant writer on earth. What we're doing is taking it slow. I was advised (by and IEW instructor I 'know') that you should help as much as they need until they don't need help anymore. She also stressed it's ok if it's wordy and has mistakes. Get something down and then edit. We start with some key words written down. I have him narrate to me and put it down word for word. Then we revise. Then I write it and he laboriously copies it. We manage about 2/week. I'm thinking about getting R&S 5 just for the writing. IEW is more than he can do right now.

[Veritaserum]

The others gave good suggestions. My dd (5th grade) has done better after MCT. I love the WWE main book as well (for teaching me). Dd does well with the key word outlines from IEW. I have to work more directly with dd to create one-level outlines a la SWB. After dd writes a sentence we read it again and tweak it if necessary. Sometimes we'll work with the sentence orally before writing it down.

 

Before I ask her summarize something, I ask her a series of questions.

Whom was this story about?

What did s/he want?

 

After we go through questions about the text, dd has a much easier time of streamlining her thoughts.

 

For non-fiction I ask her to tell me a one word answer for what was the topic of what she just read. She recently wrote about stingrays. After she read I asked:

 

What was this section about?

Stingrays.

It was about stingrays. Say that.

It was about stingrays.

What is one of the things it said about stingrays?

What they eat.

It talked about what stingrays eat. Say that.

It talked about what stingrays eat.

Good. What is another thing it said about stingrays?

Defense.

It talked about how stingrays defend themselves. Say that.

 

You get the idea. I find that these questions are a necessary step before dd is prepared write. Either she or I will write down what she comes up with. We can then use that as a basic outline for a paragraph about stingrays.

 

It is helpful for dd to already have a topic sentence in mind so that she can hunt for facts within the text that are relevant. We organize the summarized facts and then write a paragraph.

 

I like the IEW TWSS teacher DVD set. IEW and various things I've listened to or read by SWB have helped me immensely. I'm working right now to bring more writing across the curriculum instead of being its own subject.

[Greta]

I'm using Meaningful Composition with my 5th grade dd, and we LOVE it! It truly teaches how to write effectively, step by step. It teaches technique and not just "write a paragraph about . . . ". First it goes through how to write a sentence, then what a paragraph is, and step by step how to put one together. We just started it this year, so that's the point we are at right now. I definitely plan to continue with the program. Part of me was afraid that such a structured writing program would take the joy out of writing for my daughter, but instead, it has had the opposite effect! This program is now her favorite part of our school day, and she has said that she is considering a career as an author now, which is something she never said before! Okay, I'm gushing, but that's because this program is really that good.

 

It is in the form of a workbook, which teaches directly to the student. It is super easy, because I just hand her the workbook, with the pages marked that she needs to do that day, and then I check over her work. It's that simple, and she is writing much better than she was before we started this program.

 

One caveat, since I don't know how you would feel about this, it is definitely a Christian program. Not all, but a significant chunk of the writing assignments have to do with faith, the Bible, etc.