What would you do?

[LaissezFaire]

Everyone has given you great advice. I also have red flags flying everywhere. For me the red flag hit as soon as your son equated cuddling adults with his grandpa's pee-pee. I just cannot see any reason he would so quickly jump from one thought to another unless closeness with an adult man meant something bad or upsetting.

[cjzimmer1]

(sorry jumping around, but trying to answer other replies I saw in this thread that I haven't addressed yet..)

I don't think that BIL and his wife have ever had a concern with FIL, but I do know that last summer they said they weren't going to send their girls over there for a week like they usually do. But they didn't really give a reason why. However they did end up sending two of their girls over together, and my DS went with them at that time. Although, the girls were their a few days before my DS got there, so when they left, he was there alone for a few more days. That was his first time ever going there for a week alone since he's been too young before. My DS 8 has been there 2-3 times alone before.

 

 

 

This is the part that jumps out to me. You say you don't think they have concerns but yet they have taken this unusual (for them) step of sending their kids together instead of alone. Do you think it's possible that they also have some concerns but don't want to mention it to you because they also are unsure? And sending them together is their way of providing some extra insurance without rocking the boat because they don't have "proof" either. I'd find some way of asking BIL why the sudden change in routine of sending 2 and not 1.

[MBM]

Most children who accuse someone of molestation are not lying. The last I read, less than 5% lie. However, they can be led to falsely accuse through faulty questioning, such as in the Bakersfield cases, so read up or seek guidance before you begin discussing this too much with your children again.

 

Grandpa could be in the process of grooming the children which makes the events seem innocent and even funny. I would also suspect that if something did happen, your son was told not to tell you or your husband.

 

Also, sometimes men will get involved with women so they have easy access to younger children. That's something to be aware of.

 

As uncomfortable as it might be, I think it could be helpful to ask why the cousins are not staying alone and if anything occurred. This would be an adult-only conversation, of course.

 

Way too many red flags here, IMO. I'd err on the side of caution and not allow unsupervised time. Your boys are the ones who could ultimately pay the price.

 

Sorry you're going through this. It's more common than you might think.

[Denisemomof4]

Most children who accuse someone of molestation are not lying. The last I read, less than 5% lie. However, they can be led to falsely accuse through faulty questioning, such as in the Bakersfield cases, so read up or seek guidance before you begin discussing this too much with your children again.

 

Grandpa could be in the process of grooming the children which makes the events seem innocent and even funny. I would also suspect that if something did happen, your son was told not to tell you or your husband.

Also, sometimes men will get involved with women so they have easy access to younger children. That's something to be aware of.

 

As uncomfortable as it might be, I think it could be helpful to ask why the cousins are not staying alone and if anything occurred. This would be an adult-only conversation, of course.

 

Way too many red flags here, IMO. I'd err on the side of caution and not allow unsupervised time. Your boys are the ones who could ultimately pay the price.

 

Sorry you're going through this. It's more common than you might think.

 

I've started to write to you so many times. The above is true. LISTEN to your instincts. The more I read, the more you respond, the more concerned I am. There are so many things that concern me. I listened to my instincts and didn't back down. Because I did, my kids are fine. Another family's kids will never be the same again.

 

I'd never, ever allow ANY kids in that house again without dh or yourself being present. And I'd also question your brother.

 

Please read this. Does it sound eerily like him?

 

http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

 

Even if it doesn't, you MUST be extremely cautious with your kids. I find the marriage a huge concern. Our friend also married an older woman, one with 4 or 6 kids, one whom probably felt she'd never get married again. She was on welfare. Our "friend" came into the picture and they married. And she now has two kids in jail, both have extreme anger issues, both alcoholics/drug addicts, both tried to kill the man. I tried to talk to her but she remains in denial because it's easier that way. Whether or not your step father is guilty remains to be seen. But don't let up. Trust your instincts. I *KNOW* they're there because they came SCREAMING through to me as you posted. I could identify with them and I was comforted to see that you also have them. Don't let up!

[Julie in CA]

I'm going to give "if it were me..." advice.

I would be on the phone (today!) talking to sis-in-law, asking if she's seen anything that would make her wary. From what you've posted, your dh may be a bit biased towards believing nothing happened. That's not a knock to your dh, because my dh would be the same way. I just think that it's serious enough that you should follow up, and not leave that to someone who might be inclined to minimize.

 

Honestly, after the previous accusation, I would not have allowed unsupervised visits, and I'd expect grandma & grandpa to understand. If they didn't, that would have been the end of the visits.

 

At this point, I'd also have a private discussion with my older ds in which I would calmly & gently tell him my concerns about younger ds, and ask if he has any opinion upon whether younger ds needs to be a bit more protected from grandpa. Hopefully, older ds's protective instinct will kick in for younger brother, and that will allow him to tell you more of the truth with the justification of looking out for younger bro, but not necessarily telling you directly all about what may or may not have happened to him. It's not exactly the same thing, but when my oldest son was in Scouts, he said nothing to me about any problems. When 3rd son joined Scouts, after about a year or so, my oldest told me that his brother was being bullied. It turned out that oldest son had been bullied all those years, but didn't want to be seen as weak, or a complainer. It was only when he could give the reason of looking out for his younger brother that he felt comfortable enough to confront the issue (for his brother, still not for him, kwim?).

 

Either way, the unsupervised visits would end. Period. My dc would never ever spend another moment alone with this man who is not really their grandpa anyway. If confronted, mil will probably stick up for her dude, and I just don't think I'd go there unless I had proof and was planning to help in prosecuting.

 

I'm coming at this from a couple of perspectives, one is as a child who was molested by a babysitter and never told. At least, I've never told my mom. She'd be devastated, and since it's unlikely that anything could be done about the perv, it just seems hurtful to tell mom now (upon this my sister and I both agree--she remembers the same things and was slightly older than I was when this sitter did his thing). Had mom asked my sister at the time if there was any reason to worry for me, my sister would have told her yes, though probably would not have given details about what was happening to us both.

 

The other perspective is as a mom of boys. I get what you're saying about how boys talk, and how enthusiastic they are when they discover the cool things their private parts can do. :001_rolleyes: I also know my boys might be at each others' throats occasionally, but would still protect each other when it comes to something major.

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. Those unexpected bumps in the road of life, I guess...:grouphug:

[ReidFamily]

Please don't ignore this. Please don't dismiss this. I think the false accusation is crap in most instances. There are things amiss here. You will be a little embarrassed if the accusation turns out to be false maybe it will even ruin your relationship but you will never forgive yourself if you ignore it and something bad happens.

 

As an abused child I could say so much right now but I am short on time. Please feel free to PM me. No one knew that my dad molested or that my sister was raped repeatedly by our biological father until we confronted him when we were both in our 20's. Once, my mom found a letter that I wrote to a boyfriend alluding to what happened when I was in High School. She confronted me crying and I lied and told her it must have been a dream. That was the easier answer so she believed me. Even now, once my sister and I have come out in the open she continues to stay with him. It is beyond the normal bounds of understanding. By the way, we are from upper middle class, my parents are well known and respected in the community, bla bla bla.

 

Don't allow anymore unsupervised contact. Seek a play therapist or someone else that can help you uncover what may have happened in a non threatening way to your child(ren) nieces/nephews and confront the family member(s) in question. Don't just quietly walk away. When you do this you allow another unknown child to be the next potential victim. This isn't fun and it is uncomfortable but the key to stopping this madness is to not allow them to get away with it.

 

If it turns out to be nothing (which I doubt) then you still lose little.

[mom2scouts]

Sadly, I have to agree with the others. Something isn't right here. Every post you write brings up more red flags: the son's original comment, his insistence on it being "a joke" after seeing your reaction, the brother's behavior, the fact that the grandfather is only 40 and married to a much older woman with young grandchildren who stay unsupervised for up to a week each year, the change from one niece at a time coming to visit to two coming together. If you haven't read Protecting the Gift, you need to read it today. It will help you realized why you must trust your instincts.

 

One of my sons was molested by a boy just a few years older than him. I knew there were some red flags about this boy, but I thought it would be OK if they were just playing in my back yard. It wasn't until I caught him pulling down the pants of my 2 year old and saying some very inappropriate things that I became worried enough to ban him from coming anywhere near my house or children again. It was another year (and after the boy had moved away) that I found out just what was really going on in the backyard playhouse.:sad: Please protect your kids and your other young relatives. If it all turns out to be a misunderstanding, I hope your parents respect you for doing what you thought you needed to do to protect your children.

[secular_mom]

 

Later as I was questioning him, he kept saying he was sure he was joking...but maybe because my mommy radar flew way up after that initial convo with him, but I didn't fully believe him. He also said, "what if I can't remember the exact day it happened?" when I asked him to tell me whatever, and whenever something happens that makes him uncomfortable, no matter what. So I don't know if he was thinking back to something that happened, or if he was just asking general questions.

 

<snip>

 

 

 

How did you answer your son when asked about not knowing the exact day that something happened? I'd want to be clear that if something ever happens in the future that he'd need to tell me right away. I'd tell him that if he is EVER somewhere- ANYwhere, no matter how far away, and he is uncomfortable for ANY reason that he can always call me and I will come and get him. I'd also tell him that if something has EVER happened before, it's not really important for him to remember the exact day or time that it happened, but it's important for him to let you know.

 

Those remarks about his grandpa sound too specific IMO, and I would not be able to just brush it off as 'silly kid talk'. Kids test the waters, and if something was done that made him feel very uncomfortable there's no telling how he'd react. He may not want to make you uncomfortable, and seeing that his comment distressed you he 'took it back'. He probably really loves his grandpa and doesn't want him to 'get in trouble', and he probably still enjoys the visits and doesn't want them to be taken away- he just wants the 'icky' stuff to stop if it is happening. :grouphug:

[tex-mex]

Everyone has given you great advice. I also have red flags flying everywhere. For me the red flag hit as soon as your son equated cuddling adults with his grandpa's pee-pee. I just cannot see any reason he would so quickly jump from one thought to another unless closeness with an adult man meant something bad or upsetting.

:iagree: Just be sure to not have the kids unsupervised with Gramps. Period. Personally, if it were me, I'd do some snooping into Gramp's background (and yes, I'd do it in a heartbeat) with a background and criminal check. If you find anything, time to talk. If not, keep it to yourself and keep an eye on Gramps. No need to start WWIII -- but you need to figure out this guy first. I am still wondering why he is so young? Did your DH's mom have kids really young? That is boggling my mind.

[mcconnellboys]

Oh my. If there have been accusations against him by others, then I would be hugely concerned.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Not that often, alone - only once a year probably. Each of the older three boys take turns going there for a week during the summer. Otherwise, that's it since they don't live that close to us.

I would not be sending them there alone without you to closely supervise IMHO.

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

I don't think that BIL and his wife have ever had a concern with FIL, but I do know that last summer they said they weren't going to send their girls over there for a week like they usually do. But they didn't really give a reason why. However they did end up sending two of their girls over together, and my DS went with them at that time.

 

I'm sorry to say this, but this is a huge red flag.

 

You haven't mentioned your worries to your BIL yet, so why would you assume that he would tell you if he and his wife were having some nagging doubts (without concrete proof) about Grandpa, too. They could be hesitant to tell you for the same reasons you're hesitant to speak with them.

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

Grandpa could be in the process of grooming the children which makes the events seem innocent and even funny. I would also suspect that if something did happen, your son was told not to tell you or your husband.

 

Also, sometimes men will get involved with women so they have easy access to younger children. That's something to be aware of.

 

As uncomfortable as it might be, I think it could be helpful to ask why the cousins are not staying alone and if anything occurred. This would be an adult-only conversation, of course.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

Cat

[snipsnsnailsx5]

:iagree: Just be sure to not have the kids unsupervised with Gramps. Period. Personally, if it were me, I'd do some snooping into Gramp's background (and yes, I'd do it in a heartbeat) with a background and criminal check. If you find anything, time to talk. If not, keep it to yourself and keep an eye on Gramps. No need to start WWIII -- but you need to figure out this guy first. I am still wondering why he is so young? Did your DH's mom have kids really young? That is boggling my mind.

 

No - DH's mom is closer to 53 actually I think (she did have BIL and DH fairly young) and my Dh is 34 and his older brother is 36. And yes Grandpa is 40. Grandpa is step-dad to my DH and his brother. He met and married MIL when DH and BIL were (older) teenagers.

[Alyce]

Yes, this could be a serious thing but I believe it's very important for you and Dh to talk to Ds and confront grandfather. I say this because we have been through something similar and at the time we too were asking all kinds of questions and very upset. When Dd was 5 years old we had her in child care. She came home on day and proudly announced to us that her teacher had showed her her titties. Obviously we weren't expecting this and all kinds of things ran through our minds. We tried talking to Dd but weren't getting anywhere. We finally talked to her teacher. What we found out was that the Teacher had shown Dd her kittens but Dd couldn't say a "k" yet so it came out the way it did. I'm not trying to down play anything but I would not automatically jump to conclusions. I would talk with your son and try to find out more about what he meant but I would talk to grandfather as well. When children are that young they often say things that aren't true representations of what they are really trying to say. I know everyone is telling you red flags are going up and it could be but is it worth the relationship your son could have if you jump to conclusions and especially if you don't discuss this with the accused as well.

[Margaret in GA]

ITA with the others.

Go with your gut.

 

I would also consider taking both boys to a counselor trained in this. I wouldn't tell them what this is about or even what a counselor does--just for someone to *play* with them. I know as a mother it's hard to believe something could have happened, yet this is a time for no regrets.

 

:iagree:

Haven't read all the responses yet, but this is my feeling as well. Especially after going through what I just went through with my dd. Trust your instincts.

 

Also, in my opinion, you should change your profile pic in case someone here recognizes you.

 

Hugs!!!

:grouphug:

Margaret

 

Margaret

[secular_mom]

Yes, this could be a serious thing but I believe it's very important for you and Dh to talk to Ds and confront grandfather. I say this because we have been through something similar and at the time we too were asking all kinds of questions and very upset. When Dd was 5 years old we had her in child care. She came home on day and proudly announced to us that her teacher had showed her her titties. Obviously we weren't expecting this and all kinds of things ran through our minds. We tried talking to Dd but weren't getting anywhere. We finally talked to her teacher. What we found out was that the Teacher had shown Dd her kittens but Dd couldn't say a "k" yet so it came out the way it did. I'm not trying to down play anything but I would not automatically jump to conclusions. I would talk with your son and try to find out more about what he meant but I would talk to grandfather as well. When children are that young they often say things that aren't true representations of what they are really trying to say. I know everyone is telling you red flags are going up and it could be but is it worth the relationship your son could have if you jump to conclusions and especially if you don't discuss this with the accused as well.

I couldn't disagree more. In this situation it is very clear what the OP's son has said. People who molest children are usually experts at twisting words to make the victim look like a liar, etc. and they come out looking sparkly clean themselves. No way would I discuss this with the grandpa, unless I had solid proof that he'd done something that would hold up in court. Then I'd let him know that we know what he did and he will be answering for it.

[Harriet Vane]

I couldn't disagree more. In this situation it is very clear what the OP's son has said. People who molest children are usually experts at twisting words to make the victim look like a liar, etc. and they come out looking sparkly clean themselves. No way would I discuss this with the grandpa, unless I had solid proof that he'd done something that would hold up in court. Then I'd let him know that we know what he did and he will be answering for it.

 

:iagree: