Need help. I don't know what to do

[melmichigan]

There aren't; I was mentioning info from achievement tests and I mentioned in light of other cautions about using grade level equivalents as where you should put a dc. Cognitive tests are an entirely different kettle of fish. Since we opted not to do IQ testing for various reasons, I mentioned something about achievement tests so readers would know I was talking about something similar (not relying on grade level equivalents.)

 

The WJ III Test of Cognitive Abilities and WJ III Test of Achievement are two different tests, it is common in PS for kids to be given parts of both. :)

[EKS]

There aren't; I was mentioning info from achievement tests and I mentioned in light of other cautions about using grade level equivalents as where you should put a dc. Cognitive tests are an entirely different kettle of fish. Since we opted not to do IQ testing for various reasons, I mentioned something about achievement tests so readers would know I was talking about something similar (not relying on grade level equivalents.)

 

There are two Woodcock Johnson tests, cognitive and achievement. The achievement is typically coupled with the WISC-IV (IQ) when evaluating gifted children. It is less common to give the WJ cognitive when testing for giftedness.

[melmichigan]

It is less common to give the WJ cognitive when testing for giftedness.

 

I wonder if it is because the WJ Cognitive seems artificially inflated compated to other more widely used tests, or is it just more unreliable?

[Guest]

Well I didn't need a test to tell me he was gifted. The score is just a number for someone else to use to 'prove' my son is gifted. All I care about is teaching this guy without boring him to death or slowing him down as I have been.

[Storm Bay]

The WJ III Test of Cognitive Abilities and WJ III Test of Achievement are two different tests, it is common in PS for kids to be given parts of both. :)

Okay, I stand corrected:001_smile: (and here my dh teases me that I never admit when I'm wrong...)

[Storm Bay]

There are two Woodcock Johnson tests, cognitive and achievement. The achievement is typically coupled with the WISC-IV (IQ) when evaluating gifted children. It is less common to give the WJ cognitive when testing for giftedness.

 

Interesting. Do you know why that is?

[Storm Bay]

Well I didn't need a test to tell me he was gifted. The score is just a number for someone else to use to 'prove' my son is gifted. All I care about is teaching this guy without boring him to death or slowing him down as I have been.

That makes sense. I can also see why you tried to teach more than one dc together because it all takes so much time. All the best!

[EKS]

Interesting. Do you know why that is?

 

I think it's mostly because that's what they've always done (this is just my own interpretation). But I think I read somewhere that the WJ cognitive is less reliable on the high end than the WISC (which isn't saying all that much).

[EKS]

I didn't need a test to tell me he was gifted.

 

A lot of folks *do* need a test. Many times, gifted kids look positively average in gifted families and gifted families tend to socialize with other gifted families. And if a kid in such a family is 2E, then that kid might seem well below average by comparison.

 

What were the clues you were seeing?

[Guest]

Kai, you described my family growing up exactly. I always thought I was the slow one.

 

I am beginning to feel the need to prove to the Hive that my son is gifted so I thank you all for your support and understanding.

 

My dh and I have decided to do the following:

 

Math: Life of Fred

Science: Apologia General and Physical

LA: Vocab Cartoons (he loves these)

Literary Lessons from The Lord of the Rings (history, etc. wraps into this or we may use K12 history, too)

Writing Skills Book 2 (to the point and done)

and some extras as yet to decided by his interests though dh is drooling over telescopes now....

 

Thanks again!

Edited November 15, 2010 by Guest

[PeterPan]

Training, that sounds like a good plan! In the end it doesn't matter what his IQ is. All that matters is that you connect and get him happily going forward. IQ doesn't determine as much in life as character and persistence.

[Storm Bay]

Kai, you described my family growing up exactly. I always thought I was the slow one.

 

I am beginning to feel the need to prove to the Hive that my son is gifted so I thank you all for your support and understanding.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

You don't have to prove anything:001_smile:. I think the questions came up merely as part of conversation. I hope all goes well with your choices, but feel free to tweak or change as needed--it's an adventure.

[EKS]

You don't have to prove anything:001_smile:. I think the questions came up merely as part of conversation.

 

:iagree:

 

And I apologize if my curiosity made you uncomfortable. It's just that since all children (gifted and otherwise) are different, it's helpful to have a picture of the child beyond the gifted label and a range of scores.

[Guest]

To clarify, I am not offended in the least bit. I appreciate all your comments. This is a wonderful forum with wonderful people on it trying to help each other. No harm done :)

[StephanieZ]

Some ideas. . .

 

LA -- MCT -- start with Town, entire package (basic homeschool package), for grammar, vocab, writing, poetry.

 

Yes, R&S works fine (we used it successfully for many years), but I think MCT is much better, especially since you are already planning on doing a lot of it orally. IME, the main benefit of R&S is that it can be done independently. . . If you are already planning on hands-on, I'd definitely go with MCT.

 

Spelling -- Anything could work. Just choose sth new since your son doesn't like what you are using and it is not working well. I like Spelling Work Out b/c it is so straightforward, independent, and the kids do seem to retain quite well.

 

Literature -- either read classics (WTM lists are a great place to look for ideas) and discuss. . . or if you want something more formal, consider William & Mary's Gifted materials, such as Utopia. (I am really liking Utopia.)

 

Math -- I don't know anything about CLE, so don't know how your son would place. . . But I have had success with Singapore, Thinkwell, and LoF for my gifted dc. I'd also consider EPGY in your situtation, especially since there are well priced options available now. (When we were in your shoes, EPGY was still very expensive.)

 

Science -- I'd consider Galore Park's So You Really Want to Learn Science for general science for 1-2 years +/- Story of Science (with or without the Quest guides). Alternatively, if he is ready for a high school level course, pick a high school level science and go with that.

 

You could also consider a foreign language, latin, a musical instrument, logic. . . Adding some/all of these 'extras' can add variety and challenge. If you don't want to accelerate the core subjects rapidly, then adding some variety this way is very helpful IME. I.e., your son might spend 30 min a day each on math and LA instead of 60. . . and devote the extra time to learning an instrument or a language, etc. . .

[Jill]

While my ds is a bit younger than yours, he is a reluctant writer (slightly delayed fine-motor) and EPGY has suited him the best so far out of Singapore, LoF, Aleks, Saxon and, well, I think that's it. And with LoF he didn't really like the "story" style, he wanted to do more math. EPGY doesn't avoid story problems, it's not that, but it moves him through subjects at his own pace, does some spiralling without much tedium and he doesn't have to write down every.single.problem. He writes when there's a longer multiplication or division problem and he needs to have it on paper to keep track of it. So I only bring this up in case you find LoF doesn't seem a good fit and also because your ds seems to have a bit of that fine-motor frustration or something... Good luck!

[wapiti]

I wonder if it is because the WJ Cognitive seems artificially inflated compated to other more widely used tests, or is it just more unreliable?

 

I think it's just less reliable/informative, at least for the purpose of gifted identification. My ds had the WJ Cognitive at school for special ed purposes, and I was not at all impressed with the information that was gleaned from the results (big contrast to our WISC experiences). Some of the subtests involve auditory processing, etc. which muddies the results if the child has issues in that area; generally, I felt that 2E-ish issues get in the way of the test. In my ds's case, his WJ cognitive scores were more than a standard deviation less than his WJ achievement scores, which doesn't make a ton of sense, and for which the school psych had no explanation. While ds's WISC verbal score was also affected by his 2E-ish issues (language processing) his strengths and weaknesses were more apparent in the WISC scores. Disclaimer: ds is a complicated package, and I also thought the private psych did a far, far better job at the analysis.

 

Also, I think I read someplace that the WJ cognitive is based on a different theory of intelligence than other IQ tests.

[wapiti]

While my ds is a bit younger than yours, he is a reluctant writer (slightly delayed fine-motor) and EPGY has suited him the best so far out of Singapore, LoF, Aleks, Saxon and, well, I think that's it. And with LoF he didn't really like the "story" style, he wanted to do more math. EPGY doesn't avoid story problems, it's not that, but it moves him through subjects at his own pace, does some spiralling without much tedium and he doesn't have to write down every.single.problem. He writes when there's a longer multiplication or division problem and he needs to have it on paper to keep track of it. So I only bring this up in case you find LoF doesn't seem a good fit and also because your ds seems to have a bit of that fine-motor frustration or something... Good luck!

 

This is interesting to me. I have some kids with fine motor issues and they like EPGY. But they refuse to do the math in LOF. One of them reads LOF just for fun as a story, but won't do the math. The others won't even crack it open. I've been thinking that one advantage of EPGY for us is that there's only one story problem at a time - they can't see what's coming next so they don't freak out.

[Jill]

I've been thinking that one advantage of EPGY for us is that there's only one story problem at a time - they can't see what's coming next so they don't freak out.

That's a good point, it's not distracting in that way. My ds also turns off "Math Tunes" - he really dislikes the sounds. That the program doesn't have dancing penguins or something around the edges seems a good fit too. He is only now able to do the "Math Races" without being hypnotized by the graphics on screen.