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Hi!

I need some feedback on what to do with my just 12yr old gifted son. He took the WJIII today while we visited a school for gifted children here in the Houston area called The Rainard School. At + $13K a year, we cannot afford to send him there even with scholarship help.

 

I need some serious advice on how to adjust at home for him. Basicly we haven't done much but math and lots of library books for a while now. I have no idea how to step it up or accelerate with him.

 

Below is what we currently have been doing. It has too much review and no challenge for him.

 

CLE Math- he will finish LU410 next week. He catches the concepts after one run through. I have had to explain exactly 2 concepts to him in 6yrs.

 

FLL3- We will hit lesson 48 tomorrow on prepositions. He cannot stand all the review and repetition in the lessons.

 

WWE1- no problems. He finds it annoying.

 

AAS- he hates the review so we mostly skip it. He needs this as his spelling is awful. I still see no carry over to his own writing, though.

 

We currently have no other subjects. I should hide in shame. I also have a 14, 6, 5, and 2 yr old to attend to.

 

My dh thinks we should go with K12 for the history/art. He wants something for math that will allow this child to move ahead faster. I had planned on adding LL7 and Apologia Gen. Sci after Christmas. Grammar and writing were being changed to R&S 5, mostly done orally. Is this a good idea or is there another option?

 

Thank you.

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but it looks like the material you are using is basically on level for an average 12 year old, so it's understandable that he's bored. If you like apologia, have him jump right into Physical Science or better yet, biology. I wouldn't use the General Science with a gifted 12 year old, too easy for him. It sounds like you have your busy with the little ones and Saxon can be done alone. Have him take the placement test http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Placement and let him work through the books as quickly as he wants. He will probably be able to do just the practice and retain the information, but don't skip the regular tests just in case.

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I am not familiar with your math program: what level is he at?

For gifted students who are good at, and like, math, I can highly recommend The Art of Problem Solving which has a series of books beginning with Introduction to Algebra. We used it with DD, she loved it and is now on her third book; DS11 is currently using the algebra one:

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/

 

If he is interested, I would begin serious science with him. Serious as in: real physics. real chemistry. My DD13 is taking college physics and doing extremely well.

 

For a gifted and bored student, you need to think out of the grade level box. Let him start highschool coursework. never mind that he is 12, that does not mean anything.

For a rigorous literature and history program, check out Well trained mind. We have started the rhetoric history sequence with DD this year.

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Hi!

I need some feedback on what to do with my just 12yr old gifted son. He took the WJIII today while we visited a school for gifted children here in the Houston area called The Rainard School. At + $13K a year, we cannot afford to send him there even with scholarship help.

 

I need some serious advice on how to adjust at home for him. Basicly we haven't done much but math and lots of library books for a while now. I have no idea how to step it up or accelerate with him.

 

Below is what we currently have been doing. It has too much review and no challenge for him.

 

CLE Math- he will finish LU410 next week. He catches the concepts after one run through. I have had to explain exactly 2 concepts to him in 6yrs.

 

FLL3- We will hit lesson 48 tomorrow on prepositions. He cannot stand all the review and repetition in the lessons.

 

WWE1- no problems. He finds it annoying.

 

AAS- he hates the review so we mostly skip it. He needs this as his spelling is awful. I still see no carry over to his own writing, though.

 

We currently have no other subjects. I should hide in shame. I also have a 14, 6, 5, and 2 yr old to attend to.

 

My dh thinks we should go with K12 for the history/art. He wants something for math that will allow this child to move ahead faster. I had planned on adding LL7 and Apologia Gen. Sci after Christmas. Grammar and writing were being changed to R&S 5, mostly done orally. Is this a good idea or is there another option?

 

Thank you.

 

I would be afraid that he is not ready for AoPS if CLE 4 is accurate.

 

I am very confused by your post. Is he a 6th or 7th grader doing finishing CLE 4, AAS, etc? Is there a reason you have had him working so far below grade level?

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I must be missing something. Your son is 12, he's gifted, and you're using 4th grade math, 3rd grade grammar, 1st grade writing, and AAS, which could be anywhere between 1st and 6th grade level.

 

If he's gifted, why is he 2+ years behind?

 

:iagree:

I think even an average 12 y.o. would be bored with the items you listed. Did you do any kind of placement tests before you chose them?

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CLE Math- he will finish LU410 next week. He catches the concepts after one run through. I have had to explain exactly 2 concepts to him in 6yrs.

 

I know nothing about this math program but if it's too easy for him find another program, print out some placement tests and find out where he needs to be. If you want one that will allow him to move ahead and learn at his own pace, I would suggest ALEKS.

 

FLL3- We will hit lesson 48 tomorrow on prepositions. He cannot stand all the review and repetition in the lessons.

 

Definitely well below even an average 12yo's level. Try something that is on grade level at least for him. We like Analytical Grammar but there are lots of programs out there that are much better suited to a 12yo.

 

WWE1- no problems. He finds it annoying.

 

Why is he in WWE1? Did he place here? My 12yo isn't gifted and hasn't had a lot of writing instruction over the years and still placed in WWE4 and we are doing it at an accelerated rate. He will start WriteShop in the spring when we have the money to buy it.

 

AAS- he hates the review so we mostly skip it. He needs this as his spelling is awful. I still see no carry over to his own writing, though.

 

I don't find AAS especially good for older kids. If you really want the Spalding approach, I would recommend Spell to Write and Read. You can tailor the instruction to each child much more easily with SWR than with AAS. Another program I would consider for him is Sequential Spelling given all that you have on your plate and his age.

 

We currently have no other subjects. I should hide in shame. I also have a 14, 6, 5, and 2 yr old to attend to.

 

Don't hide in shame, you can't fix things that way. ;) It's hard trying to personalize educations for 5 (not always cooperative) children and still have any usable brain power left at the end of the day. My little one that seems to be on the gifted path is a joy to teach but I'm also scared to death that I won't be able to provide her what she needs since I've never had to try to teach a gifted or potentially gifted child before. But I also know that any school I can afford to send her to wouldn't do her justice either. Yeah....it's hard. :grouphug:

:grouphug:

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BTW, my son just turned 12 on Monday.

 

I chose these programs because I was teaching my friend's daughter for a bit who is severely behind, I was trying to use my time more efficently (sp?), and none of the kids had had a lot of grammar so I picked FLL3 because the Peace Hill Press site said it was a good text for older kids with little to no grammar instruction. My other thinking was all grammar texts cover the basic parts of speech so might as well use one with crystal clear explantions and very little writing.

 

I chose HWT Cursive, WWE 1 and AAS because his handwriting and spelling are a nightmare. I was hoping the HWT Cursive would help him slow down, form letters correctly and allow me to sort of read his writing. (Our computer is out of commision at the moment. I am on my dh's work laptop.)

 

He is 2 years 'behind' because good ole Mom doesn't have a freaking clue what else to do or how to move him up or anything because he fusses and whines constantly about anything he doesn't like related to school. I can hear the wails now when I hit him with new tougher books. So we have a serious attitude problem to tangle with, too.

 

For math, he is using Christian Light Education Light Units because I want to know he knows it. Having tried just about everything else, this he doesn't complain about. And, yes, I did give him a placement test. It is hard on a kid who understands algebraic concepts but doesn't know how to add, subtract, etc. fractions with different denominators because he has never seen them before.

 

I know he is capable of more and I have allowed him to shluff along for far too long. Maybe I am scared to let him 'fly'. Maybe I have been holding back all my kids. But those are thoughts for another time and are not helpful or useful.

 

He would like higher science, but his math skills are not there. I am sure they could be in short order if I found a way to do so without my personal concern that he will miss something. I guess that is the bottom line, I am concerned he will miss something...some all important skill...if I skip him ahead.

 

So I haven't been wonderfully perfect here but I AM trying to get him on a better track. I am the train conductor on the Fat Controllers Railroad trying to move my Very Useful Engines towards their bright futures. Sometimes we get stuck.

Edited by Guest
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For math, I would take him out of CLE and let him whip through Life of Fred. This is something he can do pretty much on his own, he'll likely find it fun, and I would just about bet money he'll retain a LOT. I would start him at the pre-algebra - he'll probably go through it pretty quickly - but it will give him a good foundation in any basics that he's not clear on. You can check it out here: http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/index2.html

 

Mine started the Beginning Algebra after reluctantly slugging through another text (he's just turning 13) and whipped through over 200 pages in just over 2 weeks. He's had near-perfect retention (which certainly didn't happen with "normal" texts) and is really enjoying math for the first time in a long time. He's already drooling over the next few books and begs to do it.

 

The reason that your son doesn't appear to be clear on math concepts - as well as grammar, spelling, etc. - is that oddly enough, he's moving too slowly. Gifted kids are a whole 'nother breed ;) For a lot of kids, slow and steady is the way to go; for gifted kids, it's the easiest way to lose them. Their brains actually process info differently - there's no short term memory "layover" that needs repetition to cement it in their minds. Rather, they go straight from working memory (getting the info) to long term memory - as long as they deem the info worth keeping. If it doesn't seem to be relevant, out it goes.

 

The way to keep their attention is to let them fly. This can be extremely scary, but it works - promise.

 

For grammar, I'd do something like Analytical Grammar - and during the breaks, have him apply it to his writing. Once he knows the concept, have him edit his own paper, show it to you for notes, and revise his own writing. However, I would suggest also letting him come up with some of his own writing assignments. Giving him an invested "say" in his work will do a lot for him. I'd honestly drop all the other programs with him - they're not designed for him and will actually hold him back.

 

For spelling, you might want to check out Spelling Power. This will let him move as quickly as he wants, you don't have to buy a new level each time (it's an all-inclusive program), and it's extremely flexible. He can have a huge range of activities to choose from, and your involvement boils down to 5 minutes of testing per day. The rest is up to him.

 

General Science is going to bore the pants off him...I'd move him up to at least Bio. Mine whipped through Bio in less than two months and is currently working through Human Anatomy. (Be prepared to get him the next level in whatever interests him.)

 

For humanities/art/music/whatever, here's a program you might want to check out - it's written by a music history professor who LOVES what she teaches, and it shows. She traveled the world to film this, it's all inclusive, and is top-notch. It can also be used again later, at a higher level - there are easily enough activities to do so. http://discoveringmusic.net/ It's based around music history, but also includes "regular" history, art, drama, politics, geography...the list goes on. It's written at a high school level (which it sounds like he can handle.

 

With him, you're going to need to think "out of the box" - and I really do understand how anxiety-producing that can be. Promise ;) It does get better, but one thing I've found that helps is that I discuss my son's studies with him on a regular basis. He knows that he learns differently than a lot of kids, and that I'm happy to get him what he needs, but that I don't always know (right off the bat) what those resources might be. He helps choose his currics now, and he tells me up front what he likes and what he doesn't. This input helps me a lot in finding things that will work for him.

 

You're not alone - please ask any questions that come up. :)

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After reading this explanation, maybe EPGY would be a good option for you. It is totally self-paced, so you don't have to worry about "missing" something or "holding back". Also, all the assessment is done by the program, so you don't need to worry about whether or not they are mastering the material. I know you responded above, but you might want to give it a try.

 

For grammar, we enjoy Growing With Grammar--also largely because it is workbooky and easily done independantly. We're on GWG5 now and it's short and sweet with no complaints.

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He is 2 years 'behind' because good ole Mom doesn't have a freaking clue what else to do or how to move him up or anything because he fusses and whines constantly about anything he doesn't like related to school. I can hear the wails now when I hit him with new tougher books. So we have a serious attitude problem to tangle with, too.

 

FWIW, with my gifted kiddo I tend to get quite a bit more fussing/whining/dragging of feet/attitude problems with material that is too easy for her than with material that challenges her intellectually. You'd think that she'd just whip through it & be done but anything she finds "boring" it's like pulling teeth to get her to finish. We had an incident the other day with a section in Math Mammoth that started off easy but the easy part was foundational for a key concept later on so I couldn't just let her skip it. Major drama on her part ensued and I finally had to resort to a carrot & stick approach to get her to complete it. Yet I'll give her something tricky like Singapore Intensive Practice and she gets excited about it. Go figure!

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Training, several things jumped out at me. First, do you yet know the results of the WJIII? I assumed it would take some time to get feedback. If that is the case, there is always the possibility you are misinterpreting your ds. There have been plenty of stories on the boards of people who thought their kids were such and such, and testing turned out they were very different.

 

Second, are you done teaching the remedial student? If so, that gives you a lot more flexibility to change.

 

Third, you mention certain things on him are terrible. By this age, it's not so unreasonable to think there's a REASON for them being terrible. It's called being 2E. He may have issues going on you haven't even diagnosed yet. For instance my dd's handwriting is night and day different from when we started vision therapy 6 months ago. NIGHT AND DAY. My dd is just slightly younger than your ds, so I'm right where you are. By the time they're this age and are trying, not being able to do the thing (form their handwriting neatly, at least for an exercise, etc.) is a sign of a problem, not just a lack of will. If he's neat for his handwriting page and not the rest of the time, that's different, lol. Spelling too can reflect a visual processing problem and not be a lack of teaching on your part. You don't want to spend the year remediating (or attempting to remediate) something and missing the bigger issue. IF he has any issues like that, you should get them figured out and focus on them. Then next year, in 7th, you go into a more traditional gifted/fly method. The WJIII scores can give you clues to any issues he has, but also you can get a fuller evaluation with a neuropsych.

 

Fourth, if I could say this gently, sometimes consistency goes a lot farther than methodology. If you do math, EVERY SINGLE DAY, in any curriculum, and just get out of the way, he'll get to where he needs to be and very quickly. There is SO much repetition in math books, especially CLE, you don't need to be freaky about this. Your two choices are change or stick with the CLE. I don't think it's a problem to stay put, but you need to modify how you're using it. How long is he taking to complete a CLE lesson? If he is flying and doing the material accurately, I would offer to let him do completely the section at the beginning that shows new material and only every other problem on the remaining 80% which is spiral. This will automatically speed him up. And rather than specifying a lesson, offer to let him work through as many lessons as he wants each day, in this methodology. And pay him $5 when he finishes a booklet. You'll probably see progress. ;)

 

You want to add history and art? Does he like them or not? That makes a difference in your choice, lol. It seems to me you might like a shorter choice, a book that can be done in a semester, rather than a year-long course. That way you can finish up all these ends and be in a position to start things with your new school year (in June or fall, whenever you do). Gombrich has a short history of the world that would do, and Calvert has books on art history, any of which would work. (Haven't used the calvert ones, have it on my short list.) BJU has a really terrific, terrific 7th gr history course he would enjoy. The videos make it particularly good. My dd watched quite a bit with a visiting friend one day and LOVED it. A little cost, but no stress to you and a step up in thought.

 

Does the gifted school let kids pay and come in just for a class? If he tests really really well and wants to go there, you need to get him a math tutor and let him get caught up. Don't let him go into that school without pre-algebra (or as much as he can get done before then) under his belt.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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What I have found helpful is to let my gifted dc have some say in what they do.

 

I'd steer away from Saxon unless he looks at it and really likes it, but their placement test can be helpful.

 

We couldn't afford EPGY. My dd's love LOF. All you need to start Fractions, which is where I'd start if you choose this, is to know the 4 basic operations and to have your math facts memorized. That said, my dc learn their math facts while they do math.

 

Programs we have found that work well with our gifted & mathy dc for math are:

 

Singapore Math

LOF

Russian Math from http://www.perpendicularpress.com (he might not be quite ready for that, but my 12 yo used that for pre-Algebra and it's been her favourite math book. She has said several times since she finished it how much it helped her)

Algebra Structure and Method by Dolciani et all, from 1965-1975

MEP math (free to print, but be sure to print the teacher portion to do the lessons

My second dd prefers Foerster's Algebra to Dolciani, and she's done LOF Beginning Algebra

 

Math that we did or didn't like but that wasn't, in our opinion, geared for gifted dc: MUS (we like it, but not meaty enough on its own), TT

 

If you're concerned about gaps in math, you could have him do the tests first and let him skip everything he obviously knows. But I can say from experience, both personal and with my dc, that it is most frustrating to have to do work that is far too easy.

 

For English, my dds have done well with R&S, but my ds hates it with a passion. I have told him that if he can get through this year I will buy him MCT next year, but I've already spent my book budget for this year (he's the youngest). Michael Clay Thompson wrote his books with gifted dc in mind, and as I recall there are some science books they sell written by someone else that are also geared for gifted dc. We are impressed with the 3 MCT books we bought this year (2 for writing, 1 poetry).

 

Although it's easy reading for them, all of my dc like Story of the World. That's a bit young for 12, though, but I think my eldest was 12 when she read them and it made history easier to get done.

 

Spelling Power worked well for my eldest who is a natural speller. My middle one needed to work on spelling programs until she figured out a system of mnemomics on her own. Now she spells much better, but still has some trouble at times.

 

My eldest, a science and math buff, used trade books of her choice for science until around 12 or 13, including an anatomy colouring book (she prefers to draw, but would colour.) We did a few homeschool science classes. She liked RS4K Chem II, which is for grades 7-9, and this may be a good book to use now or next year. The Chem is the best part of RS4K, but the level 1 would be too easy for a gifted 12 yo who likes science.

 

Art: The Phonics of Drawing is a great program, not too expensive, and has 3 levels. http://www.teachartathome.com

 

Strap on your seatbelt, because I think you're in for a ride :D!

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Wow. Even for an average 12yo, I would expect a MUCH higher level of work. 4th grade math? 3rd grade grammar? 1st grade writing?

 

I wouldn't do R&S5 mostly orally. He's 12! I might do R&S5 orally with a gifted 7yo, but at his age have him do the written material!

 

Even Apologia and LL7 will likely be easy for an above-average 12yo. If you're going to be doing them starting after Christmas, I would adjust the schedule so he finishes them in a single semester.

 

If you need a largely self-study history program for him, History Odyssey level 2 might be a good choice for you.

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I actually think that your husband has a good idea with the K12. The courses are designed for the student to do independently and your son could go as quickly he likes and still have no gaps. I used K12 for my younger son when I was trying to figure out what level he was on academically and it proved very useful for that. Individual achievement test scores (like the WJ-III) aren't really very useful for placement. Actually using the leveled materials for several months did the trick though.

 

What has worked here:

 

Math: Singapore math, Jacobs Algebra (I am also very impressed with Lial'ls Intermediate Algebra, though we just started using it.)

 

Grammar: MCT

 

History: K12's Human Odyssey (we just used the books and did not do the K12 history courses)

 

Science: I still haven't found a science program that I like for the middle grades (gifted). I'm happy with Science Explorer (a middle school program) for my 8yo, but it would probably be too little for a gifted 12yo.

 

Spelling: My older son is dyslexic and we are currently using Sequential Spelling for Adults. I used AAS with him last year and he hated it, though I think he learned something. You could try Megawords instead.

 

Does he know how to type? Once my son started using the computer for all of his written work, things got ever so much better.

 

Also, google "stealth dyslexia" and see if the symptoms ring a bell.

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The more I think about this, the more I'm confused. Perhaps it would be helpful if we knew what it is that makes you believe him to be "gifted"? It seems like even just offering him grade-level work would be a tremendous improvement. But if you can explain the evidence you have for "giftedness", perhaps that would help us make recommendations that could bridge the gap between his weak skills and possibly higher cognitive skills.

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His WJIII placed him at 130-182 IQ and grade equivilant level somewhere between 12th and post grad.

 

 

which just illustrates how utterly useless a grade equivalent designation is for a gifted child! Even a very smart 12 y/o can in no meaningful way be considered "equivalent" to a high school graduate.

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That is what the tester told us. I thought it a bit odd, as well. I am more inclined to go with the lower number as his tested IQ because as far as I can tell, that is the one to use. Why, oh why can't they make it simple? I guess to justify the high testing costs.

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Well, if he understands even basic grammar concepts, I would put hiom in at least R&S 6. This is where I started my 5thgrader this year. She is bright and catches on easily. The only problem she has has so far is with using lie and lay. We are half way through the book.

 

Key To... math books are inexpensive and ones he can do on his one. There is a series on fractions and one on decimals. He can work on them fairly quickly and then start into either Pre-Algebra or Algebra. He must get the fraction/decimal basics down first however.

 

If he hasn't done much science, I think Apologia General Science would be a good starting point. Let him do it himself. It should get him used to reading and understanding a book on his own.

 

Linda

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which just illustrates how utterly useless a grade equivalent designation is for a gifted child! Even a very smart 12 y/o can in no meaningful way be considered "equivalent" to a high school graduate.

 

Well, at least one dc of someone on this forum sent her dd to a 4 year college at 12:001_smile:. Of course, her dd had finished high school by 12 and the college had good facilities, etc just for very young college students. That girl is pg and was mature enough, etc.

 

That said, most gifted dc aren't ready by 12 and tests like that aren't indicative of actual grade level.

Edited by Karin
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you mention certain things on him are terrible. By this age, it's not so unreasonable to think there's a REASON for them being terrible. It's called being 2E. He may have issues going on you haven't even diagnosed yet.

 

I'm thinking there may be some 2E issues going on as well. If there are major discrepancies between the various sub-tests that can be a red flag for 2E. My DS is likely 2E and there was a >2 1/2 std. deviation discrepancy between the verbal and non-verbal portions of the WPPSI when he was tested at age 3 1/2. The psychologist who administered the test told me that it was almost like testing 2 different kids.

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which just illustrates how utterly useless a grade equivalent designation is for a gifted child! Even a very smart 12 y/o can in no meaningful way be considered "equivalent" to a high school graduate.

 

I think the tests say far more about average high school graduates than anything else. At age 9, my son scored at the the post high school level in math on the WJ-III. Apparently that meant that he was able to do simple solve for x type problems. He had just finished MUS Zeta. Apparently average high school graduates don't know much math beyond prealgebra.

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I think the tests say far more about average high school graduates than anything else. At age 9, my son scored at the the post high school level in math on the WJ-III. Apparently that meant that he was able to do simple solve for x type problems. He had just finished MUS Zeta. Apparently average high school graduates don't know much math beyond prealgebra.

 

Actually, what it usually means is that your dc scored the same on that test as an average high school graduate would have on the same test. Unless there were algebraic problems on the WJ-III test, it doesn't say anything about that. If there were, then that's telling. However, not all high school students do Algebra, do they? Don't some do business & consumer and/or applied math? Does business and consumer math include Algebra?

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Actually, what it usually means is that your dc scored the same on that test as an average high school graduate would have on the same test. Unless there were algebraic problems on the WJ-III test, it doesn't say anything about that. If there were, then that's telling. However, not all high school students do Algebra, do they? Don't some do business & consumer and/or applied math? Does business and consumer math include Algebra?

 

But this seems to hold true for levels well below the ceiling also. For example, my younger son at age 7, who had just finished Singapore 2B, scored at the level of an average 6th grader for math when he took the WJ-III. He knew nothing beyond what he had learned in 2B.

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I think the tests say far more about average high school graduates than anything else. .

 

Amen to that. That's why I found it very scary that my 12y/o's SAT score is in the 87th percential of college bound seniors. I know she is smart - but to me that says more about the pitiful state of the ps education.

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but it looks like the material you are using is basically on level for an average 12 year old, so it's understandable that he's bored. If you like apologia, have him jump right into Physical Science or better yet, biology. I wouldn't use the General Science with a gifted 12 year old, too easy for him. It sounds like you have your busy with the little ones and Saxon can be done alone. Have him take the placement test http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/en/resources/result.htm?title=Placement and let him work through the books as quickly as he wants. He will probably be able to do just the practice and retain the information, but don't skip the regular tests just in case.

 

I think I'm misunderstanding too. My first grader who is most decidedly NOT gifted is doing WWE 1. :confused:

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I think you've already been given some good advice, but I'll add my $.02. My oldest is only 9, and some of these ideas are things that I am only planning to use (so feel free to ignore me).

 

Math: Life of Fred is fun, engaging, and will allow him to accelerate quickly without gaps.

 

LA: We're loving MCT. I'd start with Town level. It reviews all the basic grammar he needs to know at the beginning of Grammar Town. But it's a lot more fun than FLL, and a lot less repetitive. He could probably go through this quickly.

 

If you want to continue with WWE, I'd get the text, and just work through the example weeks, until you get to level 3 or 4 and it starts to seem challenging. That way he could build the skills without too much repetition. I did that last year with my dd. We got through the first 2 levels in less than 6 months, and things are soo much better with her in WWE3. here is less whining b/c it's neither too easy nor too hard.

 

Spelling Power can be nice for spelling b/c it's not repetitive. You give daily tests, and they only have to study the words they missed. I started to fall off the SP bandwagon last week to look at other programs. But then I remembered that other programs would have my dc looking at the same 10 words every day for a week, whether they know them or not. Blech.

 

History: History Odyssey level 2 is independent and has some writing instruction, as well as a few lit. selections.

 

 

:grouphug: It's scary to accelerate a child. I'm still having a hard time letting go enough to give my dd the acceleration she needs--and that's the whole reason I started homeschooling her.

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You have so many options to try to accelerate his curriculum! Here is what I would do if he were one of mine:

 

Rod and Staff Language Arts grade 6 (I would start off doing it orally, but slowly have him start to do even or odds in writing.) Definitely do all the writing lessons, maybe even a couple times.

 

MUS: wherever he needs to start (multiplication: Gamma; division: Delta; . . .) MUS is the easiest curriculum to accelerate through. He would watch the DVD himself, do 1 lesson and if he aces it, do 1 review lesson and then move on the next day.

 

AAS: I would keep doing this, but try to move quickly through.

 

Getty Dubay Italic: I would consider getting the Jr. High book called Write Now! I would have him rewrite ANY messy handwriting he does for ANY of his school work.

 

Electives: What are his interests? I would find challenging curriculum for whatever his passions are. How does he like to learn best? (reading, workbooks, work with you, computer)

 

Apologia General Science with no hand holding

 

First, I would sit him down and have a talk about where he wants to go in his life and try to get him excited about accelerating. I would also set up rewards and consequences for his attitude during school time and for completing books. I would introduce one new book each week and slowly work up to the amount of work he should be doing.

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The EPGY OE group program might be a good way to quickly move him through information without worrying about gaps. The OE is $135 for the school year (through May 31st) for math and language and writing (LAW). It will adapt to his pace based on mastery and has a gifted option. PM if you'd like information. Another option just for math might be the individual OE program, which is 3 months for $45, although it doesn't have the gifted option to my knowledge. I had my DD go back to 4.5 and work forward through the EPGY program before I started her with Chalkdust to fill in any gaps she had, it didn't take that long.

 

I am remediating my DD with AAS so we are just working quickly through the material.

 

What grade would he be if in PS in your area?

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melmichigan, he would be 6th in ps here as I start mine in K at 6yrs old. What is the LAW like? I can't find any samples. Also, are the demo samples for math accurate? They didn't seem to explain concepts very well.

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Okay so here is what I am looking at by subject so far based on all of your fantastic suggestions:

 

Math: drop CLE, move him to either EPGY, ALEKS, or LoF (

 

Grammar: Analytical Grammar (But what for writing?) or R&S 6 (has it all.)

 

History/Geo/Art: K12 Intermediate World A or B or History Ody Level 2

 

Science: Apologia General or Bio. (He wants to study astronomy, though.Too bad there isn't a higher level text for it.)

 

Spell/Vocab: AAS with VfCR or Megawords

 

Hand: Getty Dubay Write Now!

 

Did I miss anything?

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Science: Apologia General or Bio. (He wants to study astronomy, though.Too bad there isn't a higher level text for it.)

 

 

 

My son is using The Cosmos coupled with the Teaching Company lecture series called Understanding the Universe. So far, it's been a great combination and my son is loving it. Both components are introductory college level, but it might be something to keep in mind for your son when he's ready for it.

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I think you need to be very careful. Something doesn't add up. I would ask for more information about the test. Just because it says he is gifted doesn't mean you should drop all of the subjects he is currently in and add very demanding ones. It doesn't sound like he is breezing through the ones he has now.

 

I would change one subject at a time and see how it goes. I'm sure it will work out great, but you don't want an overwhelmed child! Maybe you could start with LOF and see if he can understand and apply the math without your help.

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Science: Apologia General or Bio. (He wants to study astronomy, though.Too bad there isn't a higher level text for it.)

 

Signs and Seasons is a great astronomy course that is appropriate for middle school-high school. This is from a Christian perspective.

 

If he is interested in a free college astronomy video course check here. It isn't from a Christian perspective.

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Kai, who wrote The Cosmos? Is it a book? I googled it and came up with all sorts of things.

 

Thank you everyone for your most helpful responses. My dh, son and I all appreciate it.

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Actually, what it usually means is that your dc scored the same on that test as an average high school graduate would have on the same test. Unless there were algebraic problems on the WJ-III test, it doesn't say anything about that. If there were, then that's telling. However, not all high school students do Algebra, do they? Don't some do business & consumer and/or applied math? Does business and consumer math include Algebra?

There are algebra questions (and a couple very simple calculus problems...) so to that extent it really does test out at the grade level it claims. However..... two things keep me from putting too much stock in it. First, it's literally a couple questions per grade level. Guess well, or happen to know something they happen to test, and you can go up quite a bit for just a few things. It doesn't test any one level thoroughly. Second, IIRC, in order to get the highest possible score, you really do only need something on the order of basic algebra. It's average for the age -- including college bound high school students, non-college bound high school students, drop outs, etc. Testing ">12th grade level" doesn't mean college student - it's more like average 18-year-old.

 

All this to say it's a great snapshot, but if this is the achievement test we're talking about, not the cognitive test, I wouldn't panic. I would follow up with a full length test at the grade level you think is closer to actual performance (regular ITBS or Stanford at whatever level fits best, or the 8th grade Explore, or ACT or SAT after that)

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I'm a little confused by the score. Something doesn't seem right. But...I will add my two cents.

 

The first thing you need to do is think differently about teaching him. This isn't just a matter of speeding up math and adding more difficult grammar. One of my kids has a score of 140. I don't find that much different from a very bright kid. Yes, I can push harder in some things, but it doesn't mean he's brilliant. Now, if your ds is 170-180, you're talking about a totally different kid. That's why your score is strange to me.

 

Like most gifted kids, though, my two have intense passions, obsessions. THIS is what needs cultivating. This is where you give him freedom to fly. This is where you need to think out of the box - to satisfy the gifted kid's need to explore and investigate and learn deeply.

 

Take your time in discovering what kind of learner he is. Will he learn better with MCT and LOF or is he better with more conventional programs? Don't worry. Just listen to his particular needs.

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The scores don't jive. The difference from 130 to 180 is HUGE (merely bright to genius), comparable to the difference between a mentally disabled person (old word retarded) and normal. That's why it's a red flag for 2E/stealth problems. Will the school give you the results to take to an outside source for evaluation? That's what I would do.

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I agree with the poster that said you need to be careful not to overwhelm him. Test scores are simply a tool; they are not directly translateable to doing x,y,z.

 

Since he has been functioning so far below grade level for an extended period, I am even more confused by his test scores. I have never had any of my normal kids tested, only my Aspie. I have no idea what their results would be, but I seriously do NOT think they would test in the range you have posted. But, even so, I couldn't have prevented my bright kids from accelerating on their own. One of my kids taught himself multiplication when he was really little simply from looking at patterns (window panes, cookies on a pan, lego blocks, etc). Some of my devour books on topics they are passionate about and have made themselves "child-ized" versions of experts on the topics. They didn't/don't need my teaching for those things to just happen. I would expect those types of situations to be even more pronounced among kids with scores like you posted.

 

I would wonder if b/c he hasn't shown some of the typical "markers" of gifted kids that perhaps the suggestion of exploring 2E scenarios isn't the first course of action you should pursue. None of us can fully appreciate your situation or understand what you are describing; however, it just seems "off" and simple boredom, while might explain some, does not seem to encompass everything you have described.

 

If you don't feel compelled to pursue further evaluation and are really just looking for different materials for teaching, I agree with your dh and the k12 suggestion or the recommendation that others have given you for EPGY.

 

(FWIW.....my 14 yos is also using Cosmos and several TC videos and loves the course. However, he has a strong science/math background and tells me occasionally that the physics aspects are beyond his comprehension. I'm not sure it would be the best choice for a first exposure to a science course. Plato science as an earth/space science that might be more interesting and appropriate for him. Homeschool buyers coop has it on sale until Monday for $50. https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/index.php?option=com_hsbc_epp_order&Itemid=1024 )

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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But this seems to hold true for levels well below the ceiling also. For example, my younger son at age 7, who had just finished Singapore 2B, scored at the level of an average 6th grader for math when he took the WJ-III. He knew nothing beyond what he had learned in 2B.

 

 

I'm not sure about this test, but I know that with standardized testing such as the Iowa one or the CAT-5 that means the same thing, that a dc scored the same on that section of the test as someone in the other grade would score. Now as for doing SM, many times dc learn to solve more complex problems than many books have using simple arithmetic. In fact, once I was looking at a problem in my eldest's Algebra 2 text and started picturing how to solve it with a bar diagram. I can't remember as much about 2B anymore.

 

The test you took does test for more than standardized testing does as it also tests things such as cognitive ability, and your dc are gifted, but I wouldn't necessarily take the grade level given as the grade level in which they should be placed.

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My only caution would be that IQ may be somewhat unreliable compared to achievement when it comes to actual placement with materials (and WJ III Cognitive is somewhat elevated overall). My younger twin scored very high with the IQ portion of her testing, without being able to read. Her twin could read at a fourth grade level at the time but their scores were within points of each other. The IQ is the potential, the achievement is what they are actually doing.

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His WJIII placed him at 130-182 IQ and grade equivilant level somewhere between 12th and post grad.

 

 

 

I'm curious (forgive me if you've answered this elsewhere). What about your son made you decide to have him tested? Do these scores make sense given what you know of him?

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There are algebra questions (and a couple very simple calculus problems...) so to that extent it really does test out at the grade level it claims. However..... two things keep me from putting too much stock in it. First, it's literally a couple questions per grade level. Guess well, or happen to know something they happen to test, and you can go up quite a bit for just a few things. It doesn't test any one level thoroughly. Second, IIRC, in order to get the highest possible score, you really do only need something on the order of basic algebra. It's average for the age -- including college bound high school students, non-college bound high school students, drop outs, etc. Testing ">12th grade level" doesn't mean college student - it's more like average 18-year-old.

 

All this to say it's a great snapshot, but if this is the achievement test we're talking about, not the cognitive test, I wouldn't panic. I would follow up with a full length test at the grade level you think is closer to actual performance (regular ITBS or Stanford at whatever level fits best, or the 8th grade Explore, or ACT or SAT after that)

 

 

Okay, that says more.

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My son took the Cognitive test, not acedemic. I didn't know there were two tests.

 

 

There aren't; I was mentioning info from achievement tests and I mentioned in light of other cautions about using grade level equivalents as where you should put a dc. Cognitive tests are an entirely different kettle of fish. Since we opted not to do IQ testing for various reasons, I mentioned something about achievement tests so readers would know I was talking about something similar (not relying on grade level equivalents.)

Edited by Karin
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