Phonics Road, R&S?

[4 Gifts]

I have a 6 year old son who has struggled to read. He is doing okay now, praise God, but we just have to take it slow! I am currently using Sing, Spell, Read, and Write and am to the point where it is mostly lists of spelling words. I am not making him spell the lists to continue on as it would take us a long time to continue to work through the material. He has taken 4 weeks just to work on spelling some sight words (I have tried to make it fun where he practices the words with shaving cream, painting on the deck with water, snap together blocks, play dough, etc.) but the words are just not sticking. All of this has had me looking at spelling and phonics programs. My previous plan was to go to Rod and Staff reading and phonics after this year of SSRW because I LOVE the Bible Reader (we are using the R&S Bible Reader each day in addition to SSRW). I was just going to use the Spelling Power method of spelling since that is what I use with my older son. I am intrigued by PR because it is mostly all in one, and because so many have shared how it is helping their children read and spell better. My questions at this point are:

 

1. Am I expecting to much from him this year in terms of being able to retain and spell these words? Do I wait and just see whether he will struggle with spelling next year before I make any changes? I know he is still young...but it is just different than with my older child!

 

2. I have looked at AAS but the teacher intensiveness of it scares me...is PR considered just as teacher intensive? If you have used both R&S and PR how would you compare your time investment between the two?

 

3. R&S also teaches the phonics sounds, why would PR be a "better" approach for a struggling reader/speller (can you tell I have not done my homework about the method)?

 

4. Is Scripture or Biblical values taught within the curriculum or is it fairly secular?

 

Thanks for listening and for any insights you have!

[Ellie]

I have a 6 year old son who has struggled to read. He is doing okay now, praise God, but we just have to take it slow! I am currently using Sing, Spell, Read, and Write and am to the point where it is mostly lists of spelling words. I am not making him spell the lists to continue on as it would take us a long time to continue to work through the material. He has taken 4 weeks just to work on spelling some sight words (I have tried to make it fun where he practices the words with shaving cream, painting on the deck with water, snap together blocks, play dough, etc.) but the words are just not sticking. All of this has had me looking at spelling and phonics programs. My previous plan was to go to Rod and Staff reading and phonics after this year of SSRW because I LOVE the Bible Reader (we are using the R&S Bible Reader each day in addition to SSRW). I was just going to use the Spelling Power method of spelling since that is what I use with my older son. I am intrigued by PR because it is mostly all in one, and because so many have shared how it is helping their children read and spell better. My questions at this point are:

 

1. Am I expecting to much from him this year in terms of being able to retain and spell these words? Do I wait and just see whether he will struggle with spelling next year before I make any changes? I know he is still young...but it is just different than with my older child!

Yes, you are expecting too much. Sight reading is usually not a good idea. Stick with phonics.

 

2. I have looked at AAS but the teacher intensiveness of it scares me...is PR considered just as teacher intensive? If you have used both R&S and PR how would you compare your time investment between the two?

Can't compare the teacher intensiveness, but I'd choose PR over R&S any day.

 

3. R&S also teaches the phonics sounds, why would PR be a "better" approach for a struggling reader/speller (can you tell I have not done my homework about the method)?

PR addresses all modalities: visual, auditory, kinesthetic. R&S is just visual. PR covers reading, spelling, penmanship, capitalization and punctuation. R&S's Bible Nurture and Reader series...doesn't; you have to buy the penmanship (which IMHO isn't that great in first as it teaches the dc to write REALLY BIG), with spelling and grammar/comp (which includes punctuation) in second. PR teaches true phonics; R&S's BNRS teaches phonics *and* sight reading, unless you only buy the phonics workbooks, in which case it's still visual, and it doesn't teach spelling. IOW, it isn't as comprehensive as PR.

 

4. Is Scripture or Biblical values taught within the curriculum or is it fairly secular?

Don't know. Do you want it to teach Scripture or Biblical values?

[bluemongoose]

I used Sing Spell Read and Write to get my DD reading, but I did not have her use the spelling lists. I had her read through them out loud so that I knew she could read them. We really enjoyed the books, and we did the worksheet pages. I felt the spelling lists were long and unreasonable, but I liked the rest of the program for just getting her reading.

 

Now I am using PR 1. We are only in week 10, but I can tell you that her spelling ability has really jumped! She is really doing well with this program! When we started PR she was reading very well and sounding words out phonetically when writing, but her spelling was not good. I love how the PR program has them learn the different markings for the phonetic sounds. It is very easy to teach, and my DD is learning a ton.

[TracyP]

2. I have looked at AAS but the teacher intensiveness of it scares me...is PR considered just as teacher intensive? If you have used both R&S and PR how would you compare your time investment between the two?

 

 

PR is going to be far more teacher intensive than AAS. But AAS is just spelling and PR is complete LA. You have to make the call but when I used AAS it was open and go, lessons done in roughly 15 min. PR takes 20-40 min of teacher prep time per week and the lessons take 40-60 min according to the PR website.

[4 Gifts]

Thanks for the responses...I have to get started on our school day but will write more later!

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

1. Am I expecting to much from him this year in terms of being able to retain and spell these words? Do I wait and just see whether he will struggle with spelling next year before I make any changes? I know he is still young...but it is just different than with my older child! I strongly encourage phonics instruction...there are honestly FEW sight words. So, since there is an expectation sight word memorization, I'd say perhaps the expectations are not too high, but the method isn't working. There have been no, none, zero, zilch words we have not been able to spell using the PR approach.

 

2. I have looked at AAS but the teacher intensiveness of it scares me...is PR considered just as teacher intensive? If you have used both R&S and PR how would you compare your time investment between the two? I have used RS grammar and to compare the grammar sections, there is about ashort time increase w/ PR2, only b/c the DVD tells you where your student needs to add the grammar information. Since this is an all-in-one program, the crossover between spelling, grammar, and literature does need guidance. Having said that, it's very little time still. Since the program gives daily lesson plans and it is assumed you have watched the DVD before hand (which I'll get into in a minute), there is little time. Also, so far as grammar instruction, there is much less grading with PR than RS, so I save a lot of time in this respect.

 

So far as RS phonics, which I did mildly with one child, PR is not more time, I actually think it's less b/c you don't have spelling class AND phonics class, the 2 are intertwined.

 

3. R&S also teaches the phonics sounds, why would PR be a "better" approach for a struggling reader/speller (can you tell I have not done my homework about the method)? PR drops the extensive sight word list and teaches true phonics, which then uses spelling to teach reading.

 

4. Is Scripture or Biblical values taught within the curriculum or is it fairly secular? Taught, no; sometimes implied, yes. There is a social group here for PR and there is a Secular or not page that offers the references to God. These references can be generally left out of all areas, save literature b/c the stories themselves have religious characters. If you enjoy bible stories, you'll love the lit. selections.

 

Thanks for listening and for any insights you have!

Thanks to the little birdie that told me about a PR discussion :)

[johnandtinagilbert]

PR is going to be far more teacher intensive than AAS. But AAS is just spelling and PR is complete LA. You have to make the call but when I used AAS it was open and go, lessons done in roughly 15 min. PR takes 20-40 min of teacher prep time per week and the lessons take 40-60 min according to the PR website.

 

I'm in the middle of PR3 now, so I have a nice view of the program.

 

In PR1, there is little lesson time -- about 15-20 min. on average. Keep in mind, PR1 is mostly about phonics and spelling (sounds like a perfect spot for your 6yo). Daily, you review sound cards, then after learning all the initial sounds, you'll begin spelling lists. With review of cards, any misspelled words from the day before, and writing them in the notebook (or sand, or whiteboard, etc) it usually takes about 20min. max per day. I never spent more than that on PR1. By the middle of the level, he'll be reading stories and illustrating them and getting an intro. to grammar. The program is meant to be a level based study, not a grade one, so never be concerned about being in the "right" place per level...be in your son's right place :) I just started PR3 with my 2 Little Leaguers today and I plan on taking about a year and a half on level 3 with them.

 

As for PR2, it takes more time b/c you're completing ALL language arts. Our general average for total completion was 50 min. (15 spelling, 15 grammar, 20 literature). There are days where the writing is heavier in the lit. section, so I either skip a grammar day, spread the lit. into 2 days, or have a long day. The program is EASY to convert to your preferred time schedule. Here is a post from my blog that describes a typical day in PR2. Here is a post that lays out the scope and seq. of PR2.

 

PR3 does grow in time allotted; however, at this point the student is more independent, so we are able to spend 10-15 min. together on many days, then the student completes their practice solo. At most, to this point (week 23) the most I spend with my dd is 1-hour...again that's TOTAL LA time -- all areas :) Here is a post about the lit/grammar study in PR3. It's a typical day. Here is how the word study works. At this point, the spelling portion of PR3 takes about 15 min a day. I say the words, she spells them. She only marks what she misses, then I would review that word the next day. After we write them out, she identifies the parts of speech for each word by either recognition (the word study is teaching her how suffixes change part of speech), by putting them in sentences, then identifying them, or looking them up in the dictionary.

 

As for teacher prep. as you get familiar with the program, you will find you can pretty much fast forward through the grammar and spelling portions. I do watch the lit. section, as she goes through many answers that are in the story and I like to have my own copy with answers marked. I would spent about 20min per week; however, I chose to plan the entire thing out over the summer. With notetaking, I open and go w/ about 2 min. of look ahead time each day, which is really just refreshing time. The program appears teacher intensive, but is honestly a breeze once you're familiar. If you are a person that refers to "teacher intensive" as daily teaching, then this program is not for you. You can't drop this in front of your student and walk away, you do have to teach.

 

I hope that helps :) Feel free to email me if you have any ??? I'm on "computer hiatus" right now, just popping back in for PR b/c I recently joined their affiliates program. I've been touting this great program for a long time and am pleased to be a new affiliate.

[4 Gifts]

Thanks for the input! My concerns for teacher intensiveness are regarding how much prep time it takes. It does sound like more than what I am currently doing with my LA program, but if it works...it could beat the frustration and tears that sometimes come!

 

It does sound like I would miss the Bible based readers from Rod and Staff. It would be great to be reinforcing what we are teaching Biblically through our LA program, so that is something I need to think about too.

 

Thanks again! I will have to go check out Tina's blog! I would still be interested in hearing from anyone else who has used both R&S reading and phonics and has also used PR.

[Homeschooling6]

Thanks for the input! My concerns for teacher intensiveness are regarding how much prep time it takes. It does sound like more than what I am currently doing with my LA program, but if it works...it could beat the frustration and tears that sometimes come! At first the prep time is a bit more but once you have a routine and you understand PR I don't think it takes that much time. Maybe a bit more than R&S but not by much.

 

It does sound like I would miss the Bible based readers from Rod and Staff. It would be great to be reinforcing what we are teaching Biblically through our LA program, so that is something I need to think about too. I LOVE R&S Bible based readers. I still own them and am reading them as a read aloud with Lance.

One thing I loved about R&S is it was like having Bible study at the same time as Phonics study.

 

Thanks again! I will have to go check out Tina's blog! I would still be interested in hearing from anyone else who has used both R&S reading and phonics and has also used PR.

 

In my opinion using PR would be about the same as R&S. Any phonics program is going to take time and effort.

I used R&S with my dd for three years and as much as I loved R&S it became a bit much for my dd {the reading portion}. It was really hard giving up R&S because I loved the the Bible Readers. I don't own the TM anymore but wish I would have at least saved the first grade ones as they can be used for Bible time :D

Edited November 12, 2010 by Homeschooling6
fixed a sentence

[Lovedtodeath]

PR is going to be far more teacher intensive than AAS. But AAS is just spelling and PR is complete LA. You have to make the call but when I used AAS it was open and go, lessons done in roughly 15 min. PR takes 20-40 min of teacher prep time per week and the lessons take 40-60 min according to the PR website.

I have used both AAS and PR and I find PR is about the same time-wise, but easier for me because of the daily schedule.

 

I haven't used R&S.