SWB's literary analysis audio

[ABQmom]

I know I've asked a similar question before, but I still can't wrap my brain around this. One of the suggestions for high school is to write a literary analysis paper on a literary element--explain how a literary term is used and why the author uses it. I believe she calls it a "formal" literary analysis paper.

 

So, dd just finished the Hobbit and it working on Fellowship of the Ring. I thought we could use one of those works to practice this, but I'm not sure how to proceed from here. How many sentences should this be? What should it look like? I can't even come up with an example myself, so how can help dd write this paper? I just don't have any money left for curriculum or another book right now, so could anyone explain this to me?

[1Togo]

Sending you a pm.

[Guest]

Absolutely do not worry about how many sentences or paragraphs before you even begin; the amount will come from the topic and your dd. More than the writing, it's the reading and the discussing that will enable your dd to write a short (1-2 pages) paper.

 

Literary Lessons From Lord of the Rings is something a lot of people on these boards use. My dd is a Tolkien fanatic too; I was loaned the teacher's manual for the program and really like it. If your child knows Tolkien well, has read it once and then reads it again alongside the mini-lectures and discussions in the guide, she'll have no trouble with the kind of analysis paper SWB talks about.

 

For example, one element discussed in the guide is motifs, and one of the motifs brought up is trees: the tree on the Gondor flag, the tree that will flower with the return of the king, Treebeard and the Ents, the destruction of the forests by the bad guys, etc. Once you've chatted about these examples, your dd can think about why so many trees are in the book and then write a paper, either on one or two selected trees or on how all of them tie together.

 

The biggest problem for most kids is that they are expected to write papers after one reading of a book that is likely somewhat difficult in terms of its forma literary characteristics. You can deal with this in a number of ways: by beginning with short stories or novellas which are easily re-readable as you introduce your child to literary elements; by listening to audiobooks or watching movies in addition to reading the books, which gives you another run-through in different form to discuss; by discussing the books informally but fairly extensively -- you can do this by dissecting a few chapters in detail and touching on the others fairly lightly. Before junior or senior year I wouldn't expect highschoolers to read and write entirely on their own, without the "priming" of discussion, re-reading or further going over the text, and a series of modeled analyses through detailed discussions.

[ABQmom]

Yes, I can see how lots of talking would be so helpful. I am starting to think I'm going to have to have a curriculum to get me through this because I just don't know what steps to follow to get dd writing about literature. It seems so easy listening to the audios, but then when I try to do what she says, I come up with tons of questions.

[Guest]

I by no means have looked at all literature curricula, but the ones I have seen are heavy on "comprehension" questions and vocabulary, with little discussion of the kinds of things SWB emphasizes (and so will a college course, if your child is headed that way).

 

Instead, you could look at a book such as How To Read Like a Professor, which has chapters on how to look at and think about elements such as setting, symbolism, tone, diction, structure, mythological allusion, etc. Then you'd have a list of things to be looking for as you and your student read.

 

Or you could start with poetry. The Norton Introduction to Poetry has some really good, brief discussions of poetic elements (many of which cross over into fiction) such as tone, diction, symbolism, imagery, etc.

 

Once you have a list for yourself and a basic idea of what these things are, you can begin to discuss them with your student or keep lists as you read of what you notice. Then your child simply picks one to discuss further in a short paper.

 

Your student can also discuss a historical aspect of the book. For instance (and this will be an example more aimed at girls because that's what I have and one of my grad school emphases was women's writing), a student who reads Jane Eyre might become interested in what governessing was like in the Victorian period, and do a quick bit of research to see what's out there. Without this turning into a big research paper, the student could write an introduction to governessing and the major issues involved (social isolation, uncomfortable in-between status in the household, long hours and little free time, lack of other options for middle-class women). Or someone might find the fact that the Brontes originally published under male pseudonyms interesting and do a bit of biographical research, then write a one to two-page biographical introduction to the Brontes.

 

These are not major papers, so the pressure should not be huge on either of you. The idea is simply to get used to writing about literature regularly and to gain exposure to some of the historical and literary elements involved.

[ABQmom]

I by no means have looked at all literature curricula, but the ones I have seen are heavy on "comprehension" questions and vocabulary, with little discussion of the kinds of things SWB emphasizes (and so will a college course, if your child is headed that way).

 

Instead, you could look at a book such as How To Read Like a Professor, which has chapters on how to look at and think about elements such as setting, symbolism, tone, diction, structure, mythological allusion, etc. Then you'd have a list of things to be looking for as you and your student read.

 

Or you could start with poetry. The Norton Introduction to Poetry has some really good, brief discussions of poetic elements (many of which cross over into fiction) such as tone, diction, symbolism, imagery, etc.

 

Once you have a list for yourself and a basic idea of what these things are, you can begin to discuss them with your student or keep lists as you read of what you notice. Then your child simply picks one to discuss further in a short paper.

 

Your student can also discuss a historical aspect of the book. For instance (and this will be an example more aimed at girls because that's what I have and one of my grad school emphases was women's writing), a student who reads Jane Eyre might become interested in what governessing was like in the Victorian period, and do a quick bit of research to see what's out there. Without this turning into a big research paper, the student could write an introduction to governessing and the major issues involved (social isolation, uncomfortable in-between status in the household, long hours and little free time, lack of other options for middle-class women). Or someone might find the fact that the Brontes originally published under male pseudonyms interesting and do a bit of biographical research, then write a one to two-page biographical introduction to the Brontes.

 

These are not major papers, so the pressure should not be huge on either of you. The idea is simply to get used to writing about literature regularly and to gain exposure to some of the historical and literary elements involved.

 

I agree with you about most lit curricula, and that is why I'd really like to just do my own thing with literature taking into account the interests of my dc. I also really appreciate your example--I love Jane Eyre, but I never thought of doing a paper on those aspects. That is helpful to me.

 

But, I think I mostly get how to discuss literature with my kids and how to find essay topics. What I am struggling with is how to get them to write the paper. How do I teach them how to write it? How do I get them to understand what I am looking for? Those are the areas I start to falter with. I could write the paper, but how to teach my child to is the question.

[Guest]

But, I think I mostly get how to discuss literature with my kids and how to find essay topics. What I am struggling with is how to get them to write the paper. How do I teach them how to write it? How do I get them to understand what I am looking for? Those are the areas I start to falter with. I could write the paper, but how to teach my child to is the question.

 

I think SWB's basic idea is that the paper emerges from the discussion that you do. It can begin as simply a restatement on paper of a discussion you've had about one element or aspect of a text. Your student does not have to write something totally original or persuasive right off the bat.

 

One of SWB's examples is also an "introduction to the author" (at least, in the book; I haven't listened to the lectures yet). You can look through a Norton Anthology with your child and see how each author is introduced: brief biography, pertinent historical events in his or her location, perhaps jobs or other writers or a particularly unique social situation that affected or influenced the writing. Then your child can choose an author and do something similar and quite short: introduce the author for someone about to encounter this book for the first time. What would be helpful or interesting for them to know?

 

If you keep a list as you read and discuss of the structural elements (notes on characters, setting, imagery, themes, diction, etc.), your child should be able to pick one of these and write about it in the way you have already discussed.

 

After you've both gone through this a number of times it will become easier. The more you discuss and list, the easier it will be for your child to write: just put down the discussion on paper. A short response paper like this is not an argument -- nor does it have to be thought of as an "essay" -- and does not have to have a formal argumentative or persuasive thesis. I think SWB's point is that this type of short paper should be seen as a logical extension of the narrations and outlining kids have been doing in middle school rather than a huge leap into something entirely new, huge, and panic-inspiring.

[ABQmom]

I think SWB's basic idea is that the paper emerges from the discussion that you do. It can begin as simply a restatement on paper of a discussion you've had about one element or aspect of a text. Your student does not have to write something totally original or persuasive right off the bat.

 

One of SWB's examples is also an "introduction to the author" (at least, in the book; I haven't listened to the lectures yet). You can look through a Norton Anthology with your child and see how each author is introduced: brief biography, pertinent historical events in his or her location, perhaps jobs or other writers or a particularly unique social situation that affected or influenced the writing. Then your child can choose an author and do something similar and quite short: introduce the author for someone about to encounter this book for the first time. What would be helpful or interesting for them to know?

 

If you keep a list as you read and discuss of the structural elements (notes on characters, setting, imagery, themes, diction, etc.), your child should be able to pick one of these and write about it in the way you have already discussed.

 

After you've both gone through this a number of times it will become easier. The more you discuss and list, the easier it will be for your child to write: just put down the discussion on paper. A short response paper like this is not an argument -- nor does it have to be thought of as an "essay" -- and does not have to have a formal argumentative or persuasive thesis. I think SWB's point is that this type of short paper should be seen as a logical extension of the narrations and outlining kids have been doing in middle school rather than a huge leap into something entirely new, huge, and panic-inspiring.

 

Thank you, KarenAnne, for your patience with my questions! I think I'm starting to understand better now. You mention above an introduction to the author example--Is that in the WTM or TWEM? Really, you have been very helpful. :001_smile:

[Guest]

You mention above an introduction to the author example--Is that in the WTM or TWEM?

 

I remember it being in WTM, when you get to the rhetoric/Great Books section of the high school years.