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What Did You NOT Like About Foerster?


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I'm a math teacher in a private school. We are considering changing our textbooks next year for Algebra I and II (standard level). Currently, we use the Larson books from McDougal Littell (2007 edition). One set we are considering is Foerster.

 

I've been a lurker on these forums for a while before I started posting, because I was interested in reading about math textbooks and curricula (not so much on HS'ing -- I'm not even married). I'm a big fan of Lial, but not so much of Foerster. I teach mostly Algebra I and II at my school, so I will have a big say in which books to choose. (One of the perks in being in a private school.) I need help articulating only the negatives about Foerster. Here are some of my thoughts:

 

Pro:

* cheapest of the all of the books we are considering

 

Cons:

* more suitable for honors classes (our 'standard level' is actually a little BELOW what other schools consider 'standard level')

* no test bank software (only pre-made tests that we could photocopy)

 

I have more thoughts, but I would like to hear what everyone here has to say. In case you're wondering, the other series we are considering are:

* Lial

* Dolciani (the most CURRENT edition)

* Holt (of which it's Geometry book is a favorite of Jann in TX)

If you think I'm biased against Foerster, you're probably right. But I don't wish to use a textbook that I am not comfortable with. If anyone has done a comparison between Foerster and the other series I mention, please speak up. Thanks.

 

 

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I have very mixed feelings about Foerster. We have only used his algebra 2 book here.

 

I like the word problems; they're varied, numerous, and challenging.

 

I don't like:

The disconnect between the instruction in the book and the harder problems.

The disconnect between the review exercises and the actual exams.

That there is only one form of each exam.

The lack of color.

That the explanations aren't as clear as they might be (this is an understatement actually).

 

I am in the process of switching my son over to Lial. He is halfway through Foerster, but it just isn't working on so many levels.

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I agree with EKS totally.

 

I also wanted to add that I do not like their method of teaching word problems... the students I had who came from Foersters (into Lial) were weak in this area. Lial teaches a 'chart' method that helps the students isolate the equations--easier to learn AND remember.

 

All of the programs you mentioned are good. Holt would give you as the teacher the most support (and the students get free online tutorials by Dr Burger)--you would need the One Stop Planner teacher software (tests AND test generator, worksheets, solutions, electronic TE and other neat supplements--CANDY for a teacher!). Even so Lial is my favorite--and is a breeze to teach from.

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LA-LA-LA-LA. I'm not listening.

 

We used Foerster's Algebra 1 and LOVED it. Well, I loved it (math degree here). We used it in 8th grade so no tests.

 

I had planned on using Foerster for the rest of high school after Geometry. Guess I better request Algebra 2 texts from the library. :tongue_smilie: Maybe I am listening.

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  • 2 months later...

I was talking another look at Lial's Alg 2 tonight after reading this thread-

 

Lials Alg 2 covers Factoring Trinomials and Diff of Squares in Chapter 7.

Foerster Algebra 1 does so in chpt 5.

 

She covers Quadratic Equations and completing the Square in chapter 10.

Foerster Algebra 1 does so in Chpt 7.

 

I am not very impressed by Foerster's Alg 2. Love Foerster Alg 1.

 

Lials Algebra 2 would be a review for my son after Foerster Alg 1-

 

Anyone have comment that might give me direction?

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While using Foerster's Algebra 1, we loved it. I don't love it as much now because we got in trouble this year in algebra 2 because dd had such little retention of algebra 1. That, of course, says more about dd than any program...but perhaps a program with more review would have been better or one that covered the basics a little more slowly.

 

Dd complained that the sample problems in the text (and those on the MWB CD) didn't correspond well enough with the lesson problems.

 

I wasn't crazy about the solution manual or the tests in the book but these probably wouldn't be a problem for a math teacher. The lack of detail in the solution manual was the #1 reason we didn't use Foerster for algebra 2.

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I was talking another look at Lial's Alg 2 tonight after reading this thread-

 

Lials Alg 2 covers Factoring Trinomials and Diff of Squares in Chapter 7.

Foerster Algebra 1 does so in chpt 5.

 

She covers Quadratic Equations and completing the Square in chapter 10.

Foerster Algebra 1 does so in Chpt 7.

 

I am not very impressed by Foerster's Alg 2. Love Foerster Alg 1.

 

Lials Algebra 2 would be a review for my son after Foerster Alg 1-

 

Anyone have comment that might give me direction?

 

Just to point out--EPGY uses the Lial texts for its Algebra I and II courses.

 

The two texts have essentially the same scope, but the sequence is a bit different.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I was talking another look at Lial's Alg 2 tonight after reading this thread-

 

Lials Alg 2 covers Factoring Trinomials and Diff of Squares in Chapter 7.

Foerster Algebra 1 does so in chpt 5.

 

She covers Quadratic Equations and completing the Square in chapter 10.

Foerster Algebra 1 does so in Chpt 7.

 

I am not very impressed by Foerster's Alg 2. Love Foerster Alg 1.

 

Lials Algebra 2 would be a review for my son after Foerster Alg 1-

 

Anyone have comment that might give me direction?

I'm not sure why you are comparing Lial's Algebra 2 (Intermediate Algebra) book with Foerster's Algebra 1 book. If we compare the Algebra 1 books, Lial's Algebra 1 book (Beginning/Introductory Algebra) covers Factoring in Chapter 6, and Quadratics in Chapter 9.

 

I will say this, however: the order of topics in Algebra 1 books have changed since I was in school When I took Algebra 1 in 7th grade, Dolciani was used, and I recall that we did exponents/polynomials/factoring before graphing linear equations. Now, exponents/polynomials/factoring occurs after graphing linear equations. It makes sense, in a way -- put all the topics together that deal with things linear (linear equations/inequalities, graphing lines), before dealing with expressions, equations and functions that are not linear (quadratic, polynomial, rational, radical).

 

----

 

I don't have much of an update about my original post. We (the math teachers in our school) are still looking over textbooks. I have talked to the math dept. chair a number of times, and she's not in favor of using Foerster, either, which is a good thing. :D

 

She's also not in favor of Lial, but, truthfully, I'm not either, for our regular Algebra 1 & 2 classes. But since there's a good chance I will be teaching Algebra 1 Honors and Algebra 2 Honors next year, I may be free to use Lial for the honors classes only.

 

As for the regular classes, I'm leaning towards Holt (the series that contains the Geometry book that Jann in TX likes). The One Stop Planner software that she keeps talking about sounds real nice. :drool: And an electronic version is available (the Student One Stop DVD). If only the print textbooks weren't so *#&$^#*&^$*& heavy. :angry:

 

 

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She's also not in favor of Lial, but, truthfully, I'm not either, for our regular Algebra 1 & 2 classes. But since there's a good chance I will be teaching Algebra 1 Honors and Algebra 2 Honors next year, I may be free to use Lial for the honors classes only.

 

 

Why would you only consider Lial for the honors sections?

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Like EKS, we have only used his Algebra 2 book, with 2 of my 3 older ones. And I agree with these:

 

I don't like:

The disconnect between the instruction in the book and the harder problems.

The disconnect between the review exercises and the actual exams.

That the explanations aren't as clear as they might be (this is an understatement actually).

 

With my fourth, I am using LoF Advanced Algebra, but I am starting the look at alternatives for the next couple of years (which is how I came upon this thread).

 

HTH

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Why would you only consider Lial for the honors sections?

A number of reasons:

- Because the Lial books are geared towards college remedial classes, the applications and the non-math topics mentioned in the word problems may be at too high of a level for our regular students to understand

- Our students have to buy their textbooks, and Lial is more expensive than Holt (even though Holt is thicker!)

- I teach in a private school in Maryland, and there is a state book program where the state will buy books for private schools to lend to students (which they can take home). I have asked the department chair if we can do this for the Lial books, but it would be more likely to happen if we get the books for a less number of students (ie. the honors classes only) than more (the regular students).

- The format of the Lial books (this is the high-school binding of the paperback series) is a workbook format, and the books would encourage students to write in them, which is what I want to avoid. Particularly if these are state books, I would have to check them at the end of the year to make sure that if there were any pencil marks then they would have to be erased.

- We may move towards electronic versions of books in the future, to be put into Tablet PC's or iPads. I know that the Holt books are available in an electronic version (the "Student One Stop" CD), but I don't think the Lial books are.

 

 

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I've used the Lial texts for homeschooled students for YEARS.

 

My oldest dd had learning challenges and the text was perfect for her-- we just moved at half the normal pace.

 

My middle dd is an 'honors' student-- again the text was PERFECT for her.

 

The majority of my online teaching/tutoring students are B (average) students. Again this program works well because it is TRADITIONAL in presentation it is easy to adapt for different needs. I have 'honors' level students as well and they are getting a strong program--they have to think too!

 

Most do not know that the texts that Chalkdust uses for the SAME levels are also remedial college texts! The word problems in the Algebra 1 (Introductory Algebra) and above are NOT any different than the word problems found in my other high school texts...The Basic College Math text has a FEW word problems that require a higher thinking level--but only a few and my students can still work these out...

 

Lial, Foerster, Larson (Chalkdust), Dolciani texts are all made to the SAME national standards and meet state standards as well.

 

Pearson DOES provide hardbound versions of the Developmental Lial texts for use in PUBLIC high schools (they just add 'high school' to the cover)... costs for INDIVIDUALS is around $100 per text-- but the school contract-rate is lower.

 

For homeschoolers the Lial texts are VERY affordable as the older editions are perfect. I use the 8th edition--easily found in "Like New" for under $20.

I also like the BLOCK scheduling of the Lial texts... homeschoolers cover 2 lessons each week to complete the text in one school year.

 

BCM has room to be used as a workbook for most problems... but the other editions really need to be worked on paper-- not enough space in text-- so they are just PAPERBACKS not workbooks... I like that the problems are not crowded together like in most PS texts.

 

I DO like the Holt series (especially the ones that Dr Burger authored). They are 'busy' but the content and instruction is excellent. Planning is a big PIA because there are so may potential assignments (text and worksheets) to choose from. I use the Holt 2007 Geometry text with my online classes.

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I haven't used the Holt, but based on what I've seen with Algebra 1, I'd go with Lial's over Foerster's. I haven't seen the new Dolciani so I can't say anything about that one.

 

Lial's is a good text for Honours as well as for regular. My eldest was self-teaching, however, so she did better with the old Doliciani.

 

Our ps, which dd transferred into mid-semester, uses a the McDougall Littell for Honours Algebra 2 (the theory and holes covered by the teacher, who is excellent), which she said is not as good as what she was using for Algebra 2 at home. I think that switching to Lial's and/or Holt ought to be an improvement over what you've been using.

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